26 Page New Yorker article about Paul Haggis and scientology Possible FBI investigation

Interesting exchange on Marty's blog - February 8:

Marty and Mike –

I was told by others that you had been in contact with law enforcement about what you knew. But you, Marty, had openly said that the FBI were “punks” and that they would just “screwed things up”. This law enforcement issue was the central reason I could not trust you – if you were not willing to use “wog law” to help prosecute actual crimes, then you would just perpetuate them as a Scientologist. Now that I know you have been to the FBI, and that you have been working with law enforcement, I can trust you again.

Yes, many people have told me you have been doing this. But you have to understand: after Scientology, and after all that you and Mike had done in OSA on so many people for so many years, I *could not* trust you.Thank you for any help you have given to law enforcement to end the criminal abuse in Scientology. - Allen Stanfield

Marty responds... Alanzo, I wouldn’t trust me if I were you.

It's a swing coat.

WTF?

So it's MISCAVIGE'S fault that LRH lied about his service record?

I take back anything nice I might have ever said about MR. The man is a scum sucking bottom dweller with no comprehension of the meaning of honor.

You start off better than I, I never said anything good about them. Really... the only way "Hubbard tech" could be saved is to drop the religion facade, and sell Dianetics etc as it was written, Self Help. At least that way, you can make wild claims, and when it doesn't work, no one will buy it. If it was just about, improving communication, or all their "problems of work" Mumbo-Jumbo, and they forgot about promoting things like in "Ethics" and "Science of Survival" then things might not be so bad. But as long as you encourage tech that requires judging people and working to the "Desirable Goal" of allowing "only the able to attain to, and benefit from Civil rights" You are NEVER okay in my book.

Oh it totally is, everyone knows it was just DM and LRH did nothing wrong, even though it was LRH who said that he was the war hero, but nevermind.

Don't question MR squared, he's just trying to clear the planet.

Likin the MR squared bit! That was my own name i used. but yeah.

Yeah LRH's claims about CURING "ENTHETA between the optic nerve and his brain" and using the emeter to register pain in tomatoes. yeah none of that stuff is suspect at all...... Nope it totally works!

Though on the one hand... MR^2 kinda has a point. Perhaps if they didn't cry about LRH's War record all the damn time and just said, "you know what.... you're right. There is no proof that he did this. and in a 'religion' that relies on Scientific data, We will make the change to remove those refferences"

At least that would be beneficial, admit to the presence of the Elephant in the room.

What I want to know is.... If this stuff is soooo "Scientific" as they claim. Why hasn't anyone else ever repeated his experiments and carried on his research. I know they said that he had to drop his body because he couldn't do research with it.... but has no one every tried reaching out to him and taking down notes about whats next?

vampire cape.

(Notice, I didn't even say Sea Org, but you got what I meant. I could have been just saying a regular vampire cape. Maybe I like them! I rest my case.)

I like you, you must be one of my kind. That is one of those Scilons. We both think Hubbard is a war hero y/N?

lol wut? you think I'm a scilon? Of course hubbard wasn't a war hero! Documents going missing our of his Naval Jacket? Who else would do that?

haha!

i am watching danish news rigth now - its on the morning news here about Haggis having left, with two critics (a religion sociologist who's studied ppl who's studied ex-scilons, and an ex-scilon)

they are ripping the scilons a new asshole so hard

the sociologist talks about how CoS is "you're either with us or against us"

the ex-scilon talked about disconnection, using that word - on nationwide danish tv - about the massive peer pressure to stay, all that shit

about how they were brutaly treated and all


epic win

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronzen_Kruis

How do I drop this on Marty's tiny head:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Subtitled video or it didn't happen.

Very interesting stuff in here.

That's why they became scientology. Practicing medicine without a license is frowned upon. Particularly when your "medicine" is based on horseshit and wibbly, wobbly space aliens.

Advert voice-over "Is your business about to be closed for practicing medicine without a license? Choose new Relgion-Os! Your "counsellors" will become Ministers, OVERNIGHT! Your "science" will become faith. Bye-bye pesky law enforcement *Shiny tooth grin*. Relgion-Os, get them at your local Tax-Office"

Here's a direct link to that.
http://markrathbun.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/bikeshangarexcursion.pdf (10Mb)
It's a PDF from the guy who did all the work on Tom Cruise's bike, aircarft hangar and minibus. A detailed photographic account of the work in progress at Gold Base.

holy cow, the TC gadget pics in that PDF is a game changer.. wow.. media needs this: Tom Cruises tax except slaves in action.

http://www.leberetvert.com/product_info.php?products_id=1216&page=4

Hard to counter, IMHO.

BBC
The Apostate: Paul Haggis vs. the Church of Scientology
(Blog: William Crawley, Norther Ireland presenter discussing controversial political, religious and ethical issues of the day).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/ni/2011/02/the_apostate_paul_haggis_vs_th.html
Nice little summary.

Is there a link to sicientology's full official statement anywhere? All I've seen is individual quotes of it in various articles so far.

I like that secondary reports are picking up on this aspect of it because it reminds readers that Tommy Davis totally shit the bed, and that the official version of LRH's life is fraudulent.

I also like that it's making Marty squirm. I don't consider myself pro or anti-Marty, necessarily--I enjoy that he's driving Miscavige crazy on one hand, and I don't think the 2009 St. Pete Times series happens without him, but am disappointed that his criticism of the Church since being forced out has been so self-serving (and thus inherently unreliable). Wright's article is hopefully forcing Marty to confront the reality that he cannot have it every which way because Tommy Davis' lies today have a rich pedigree that traces back to Hubbard. The New Yorker did its homework so well that it must be incredibly difficult for him to read that piece agreeing wholeheartedly with X while simultaneously disagreeing as vehemently with Y.

Okay, looks like the Dutch and French medals do exist, as medals that Hubbard also never received. (In fairness, Chris Owens never said that the French one didn't exist, he just never mentioned it in his 1999 article.)

• Hubbard claiming a fake medal that doesn't exist.
• Hubbard fraudulently claiming a medal that does exist, and stealing valor.

Which is worse?

Hubbard

'Tis a good month to be sure! Happy Birthday Lisa!

Hmmm. Maybe I do too...we should talk?

Depends. What outcome would you like from it? Because I'm thinking the fake DD214 is the way to pursue this. Falsifying gummint dox is viewed with lack of enthusiasm by authorities. Medals, maybe not so much.

first statement
http://scientologymyths.files.wordp...tology_international_am_statement-_7feb11.pdf
second statement
http://scientologymyths.files.wordp...tology_international_pm_statement-_7feb11.pdf

lol! Does Tommy think that the FBI gives everyone that they're investigating a courtesy call before they start? (Or do they think that their informants and moles would know of any investigation?)

Unfortunately, freedom of speech in the United States does include the right to lie about your military service, including medals earned.

From the Wikipedia article for the Stolen Valor Act:

The federal appeals court panel in California says people have a right to lie about receiving military medals. Specifically, in the 2 - 1 decision, the majority said there's no evidence that such lies harm anybody, and there's no compelling reason for the government to ban such lies.

I prefer a drover coat with cape for all my looming creature of the night needs.

But the cape has +5 flight and +2 stealth powers. Drover coat has... buttons.

Unless, as Barb mentioned, there's a falsified DD 214 or any other falsified documents. That's forgery and could carry some penalty. I'm sure by now statute of limitations has run out, and they could only charge Hubbard, but it's WELL known that Hubbard is a liar about his war record. Remember the MOAA article that named him?

Anytime I'm talking to my military friends about Hubbard, I bring up the falsified military history, and that usually garners the desired reaction.

Snaps, not buttons. +8 against wind and water attacks, and with the sheepie wool liner, protection against cold. And if a horse should suddenly occur, it supports that too.

cape has red lining and matching bucket hat. And, snaps,pffft. Even worse.

Those cult links? [intentionally broken by me]

Here's the copy pasta....

Statement #1 - 7th February 2011 (am)

C H U R C H O F S C I E N T O L O G Y I N T E R N A T I O N A L
_______________________________________________________
6331 Hollywood Boulevard, Suite 1200, Los Angeles, CA 90028 USA
Telephone: (323) 960-3500 ● Fax: (323) 960-3508/9

STATEMENT

It is unfortunate that The New Yorker chose to introduce its readers to
Scientology through the eyes of an apostate, someone religious scholars
unanimously denounce as unreliable, rather than take advantage of the
Churchʹs invitation to experience its practices and humanitarian works
firsthand. The New Yorker doesn’t mention Scientology’s global human
rights initiative, which has educated millions on human rights. Or its
“Truth About Drugs” crusade, teaching millions how to live drug‐free. Or
its global Volunteer Ministers program, whose work in Haiti alone has
been hailed by the international community. Or its dozens of new
Churches bringing Scientology’s life saving technology to communities
around the world. Indeed the newest Church opened just this last week in
Melbourne, Australia.

The one grain of truth in the article is its acknowledgement of the positive
effect Scientology has had on the lives of its adherents and the world at
large—that is the message of Scientology.

The article is little more than a regurgitation of old allegations that have
long been disproved. It is disappointing that a magazine with the
reputation of The New Yorker chose to reprint these sensationalist claims
from disaffected former members hardly worthy of a tabloid. As for the
claim that the Church is the subject of a federal investigation, the Church
has never been advised of any government investigation, a fact The New
Yorker knew before it went to print. Moreover, the subject of the alleged
investigation was recently raised in a lawsuit by the same individuals who
are the sources for the article and the complaint was resoundingly
dismissed by a Federal District Court Judge. The New Yorker was aware of
this fact but irresponsibly sought to use the claim of an “investigation” to
garner headlines for an otherwise stale article containing nothing but
rehashed unfounded allegations.

Anyone who wants to know the true story of Scientology should find out
for themselves by coming to a Church of Scientology, whose doors are
always open, or going to the Churchʹs website, Scientology.org.

Tommy Davis
Church of Scientology International

=============================================================
Statement #2 - 7th February 2011 (pm)

C H U R C H O F S C I E N T O L O G Y I N T E R N A T I O N A L
_______________________________________________________
6331 Hollywood Boulevard, Suite 1200, Los Angeles, CA 90028 USA
Telephone: (323) 960-3500 ● Fax: (323) 960-3508/9

STATEMENT

The New Yorker press release and Lawrence Wright’s profile on Paul
Haggis, “Paul Haggis vs. the Church of Scientology,” released Monday,
reported on an alleged federal investigation. The New Yorker was well
aware the Church knew nothing of the investigation but had refuted the
same claims based on a case already thrown out by a Federal Court Judge.
Nonetheless, The New Yorker irresponsibly used the same sources who
were discredited in the dismissed case to claim an “investigation” so as to
garner headlines for an otherwise stale article containing nothing but
rehashed unfounded allegations.

Allan Lengel, a former Washington Post reporter who writes for AOL News
on federal law enforcement matters, filed this late today in a breaking
story on Wright’s allegations: “The author cites two sources in the FBI who
‘assured me that the case remains open.’ However, a federal law
enforcement source told AOL News the investigation has fallen short and
no criminal charges are expected to be filed.” Click here for the article:
http://www.aolnews.com/2011/02/07/church-of-scientology-faces-controversy-over-latest-abuse-allega/

Obviously, this contradicts what Wright wrote in The New Yorker. If you
published Wright’s account, this contradiction should be made known to
your viewers and/or readers.

Tommy Davis
Church of Scientology International

======================================================

Maybe we should get a tabloid to cover scientology.... that way they can't complain about who is running their story.

On a side note.... Does TD always avoid using Cult Speak? His statements are easier to read than say MR^2

Grasping @ straws Tommy Boy, it looks like cult is on its way down!
Time to blow now before you get blamed for everything!

"blah blah, we are a force of good and all we care about it helping people. all allegations of harassment, fraud, and other criminal acts are fake because scientology would NEVER do anything like that." idiot