26 Page New Yorker article about Paul Haggis and scientology Possible FBI investigation

Ann O'Nymous · Feb 7, 2011

Nice.

the anti · Feb 7, 2011

from Louanne on here after being told to sue people http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheat-sheet/item/scientology-hit-with-trafficking-probe/uh-oh/

Why? To be then attacked to be a litigious organization? No, I vote to reveal the anti-scientology crowd as the hate-mongers they are, very publicly, not behind closed court room doors.

thats just rich

OneOneWasARacecar · Feb 7, 2011

This is great news. America is the place where the biggest battles need to be fought. The FBI has the potential to do more damage to Scientology than Tom Cruise or even Tommy Davis.

Silly433 · Feb 7, 2011

Plenty of ex-Scientologists have told-all in the past, but Haggis' prominence and Wright's reporting chops should have high-powered Scientologists' E-meters going haywire right now.

lulz

ZeroC · Feb 7, 2011

Lol at Babz (though not sure/can't remember who she is - dox plox)

David Miscavige just traveled to Australia. FBI didn’t stop him. Anti-Scientologists are celebrating all over the web that the FBI investigates the C of S since over a year but they don’t realize that if the FBI would have found something, they would have arrested someone of some people already, right?

That's why it's called an investigation you idiot! It takes time!

And yes, whilst we await the outcome, the fact the FBI is taking a look, is not something the Scilons can consider a win.

leafs · Feb 7, 2011

Providing the New Yorker with forged documents was a very clever move.
Good to hear the FBI is investigating.
Great article, I like the fact checking approach instead of the 'remain neutral, just presenting points of view' approach.

Anonymous · Feb 7, 2011

Tommy Davis, at Cruise’s request, was allowed to erect a tent on the set of Spielberg’s “War of the Worlds,” where Scientology materials were distributed. That raised eyebrows in Hollywood. Haggis says that when he appeared on the set Spielberg pulled him aside. “It’s really remarkable to me that I’ve met all these Scientologists, and they seem like the nicest people,” Spielberg said. Haggis replied, “Yeah, we keep all the evil ones in a closet.” (Spielberg’s publicist says that Spielberg doesn’t recall the conversation.)

A few days later, Haggis says, he was summoned to the Celebrity Centre, where officials told him that Cruise was very upset. “It was a joke,” Haggis explained. Davis offers a different account. He says that Cruise mentioned the incident to him only “in passing,” but that he himself found the remark offensive. He confronted Haggis, who apologized profusely, asking that his contrition be relayed to “anyone who might have been offended.”

Read more http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/02/14/110214fa_fact_wright#ixzz1DGYJQgNx

Now why would Tom Cruise be offended by "closet" jokes?

Tsuu · Feb 7, 2011

The church, after being informed of these discrepancies, said, “Our expert on military records has advised us that, in his considered opinion, there is nothing in the Thompson notice that would lead him to question its validity.” Eric Voelz, an archivist who has worked at the St. Louis archive for three decades, looked at the document and pronounced it a forgery.

Delicious

BLiP · Feb 7, 2011

I came. 26 times.

CarterUSP · Feb 7, 2011

Happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy!

Smurf · Feb 7, 2011

"LocalSP said: ↑

I'm doing a Happy Dance in my pants.

So am I. :-D

Etain · Feb 7, 2011

Fantastic report!

This will sure get people talking.

anon8109 · Feb 7, 2011

I enjoy watching the causal chains, not unlike dominoes falling.

1. Miscavige punches an underling
2. underling blows and tells story

3. repeat
...3.1 newspaper prints story
...3.2 other clients of the Scientology enterprise read story
...3.3 they blow and tell their story
4 until the Scientology enterprise is nothing but a collection of empty buildings.

5. end of the Scientology enterprise

Consensus · Feb 7, 2011

Wow.

First of all, some of you read damn fast. I just finished.

There's not a lot in there that we here didn't already know, but it was a pleasant stroll down memory lane to hear a new narrative that is so interwoven with events that I've become familiar with (like the musical chairs incident). There are individual sentences in this article that bring to mind terrifying stories with rich depth that I am fortunate enough to know in full detail.

The article is slow reading. It picks up at the end - when the journalist is comparing statements by Davis with fact-checking results, or quoting statements Davis made that reveal an unsettling degree of cognitive dissonance. I still think he might blow - and soon.

The mention of FBI investigations into human trafficking are encouraging, but until there's an arrest and conviction I'm not prepared to claim total victory. Nonetheless, we're definitely in the end game. Scientology is just pushing pieces, desperately seeking to waste time and protect their king, ultimately doing nothing but delaying the inevitable.

Anonymous · Feb 7, 2011

Anonymous said: ↑

New Yorker article does mention FBI and even names agents.

http://www.fbi.gov/news/podcasts/inside/international-human-trafficking/view

Sponge · Feb 7, 2011

Daily Mail (UK) 7th Feb 2011
Church of Scientology 'under FBI probe into alleged human trafficking'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...logy-FBI-probe-alleged-human-trafficking.html

The Church of Scientology is being investigated by the FBI for human trafficking, it has been alleged.

Part of the probe is believed to surround the cult's mysterious leader David Miscavige, a close friend of actor Tom Cruise who was best man at his wedding, who allegedly doled out regular beatings to unruly members.

It also concerns alleged 'enslavement' of members of Scientology's religious order, 'Sea Org'.

The sensational claims have been made in a 28-page article published in American magazine The New Yorker, which includes a lengthy interview with Hollywood screenwriter and ex-Scientologist Paul Haggis, writer of Million Dollar Baby and Casino Royale.

Most of the claims focus on Gold Base, a Scientology outpost in the desert near Hemet, eighty miles southeast of Los Angeles, where Miscavige has an office.

There, it says, Scientology leaders are encouraged 'to instill aggressive, even violent, discipline'.
The journalist writes: 'The California penal code lists several indicators that someone may be a victim of human traﬃcking: signs of trauma or fatigue; being afraid or unable to talk, because of censorship by others or security measures that prevent communication with others; working in one place without the freedom to move about; owing a debt to one's employer; and not having control over identification documents'.

He goes on to claim: 'Those conditions echo the testimony of many former Sea Org members.'

One former member told the magazine: 'I understood that the [FBI] investigation had been going on for quite a while.'

Another added: 'They wanted a full download about the abuse.'

One ex-Scientologist alleges that punishments included being sent to the 'Hole' - a pair of 'double-wide trailers' on the base where between eighty and a hundred people were sentenced to 'do group confessions all day and all night'.

However, the Church deny the existence of 'any place of confinement' on the base.
Another interviewee claims Church leaders had developed a 'blow drill' to track down members who left Gold Base.

The journalist writes: 'When emotional, spiritual, or psychological pressure failed to work . . . physical force was sometimes used to bring escapees back.'

Sea Org members who have 'failed to fulfill their ecclesiastical responsibilities' could be sent to one of the church’s Rehabilitation Project Force locations, described as 'punitive re-education camps'.
Re-education can include manual labour or 'extensive spiritual work', the magazine claims.

The ongoing FBI investigation also focuses on Miscavige's alleged 'Hollywood-star' lifestyle.
US law bans the head of a tax-exempt organisation from enjoying 'unusual perks or compensation', called inurement.

Although the church 'vigorously objects to the suggestion that Church funds inure to the private benefit of Mr. Miscavige', he was one year gifted a Vyrus 985 C3 4V superbike worth £43,000, the magazine claims.

The New Yorker paints an unflattering picture of Miscavige, who appears to rule the organization with an iron fist.

'His word is absolute', it says, 'and he imposes his will even on some of the people closest to him.'

Ann O'Nymous · Feb 7, 2011

Consensus said: ↑

First of all, some of you read damn fast. I just finished.

Some started earlier, that's all.

Nonetheless, we're definitely in the end game.

We already had this discussion.

Anonymous · Feb 7, 2011

ZeroC said: ↑

Lol at Babz (though not sure/can't remember who she is - dox plox)

Sorry, http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Barbara_Schwarz

Miranda · Feb 7, 2011

Since he rarely discussed his religion, his bosses were surprised to learn of his affiliation. Herskovitz told me, “The thing about Paul is his particular sense of humor, which is ironic, self-deprecating—”
“And raw!” Zwick interjected.
“It’s not a sense of humor you often encounter among people who believe in Scientology,” Herskovitz continued. “His way of looking at life didn’t have that sort of straight-on, unambiguous, unambivalent view that so many Scientologists project.”

I really like that the author pointed this out.

Orson · Feb 7, 2011

Freedom Magazine article attacking Pulitzer-Prize winning writer Lawrence Wright in 3....2.....1.

Think they'll mail it to everyone in NYC? Or go buy all copies of The New Yorker?

veravendetter · Feb 7, 2011

Great article. Good depth and research. Unlucky, Tommy; you can't polish a turd.

TrevAnon · Feb 7, 2011

Word travels VERY fast this time. 925, a Dutch site, already has the news.

http://925.nl/archief/2011/02/07/scientology-kerk-doet-aan-slavernij-fbi-begint-onderzoek

and google translation

http://translate.google.nl/translat...-kerk-doet-aan-slavernij-fbi-begint-onderzoek

LOL @ caption at photo of Cruise jumping on the couch.

Anonymous · Feb 7, 2011

Davis and I discussed an assertion that Marty Rathbun had made to me about the O.T. III creation story—the galactic revelations that Haggis had deemed “madness.” While Hubbard was in exile, Rathbun told me, he wrote a memo suggesting an experiment in which ascending Scientologists skipped the O.T. III level. Miscavige shelved the idea, Rathbun told me. Davis called Rathbun’s story “libellous.” He explained that the cornerstone of Scientology was the writings of L. Ron Hubbard. “Mr. Hubbard’s material must be and is applied precisely as written,” Davis said. “It’s never altered. It’s never changed. And there probably is no more heretical or more horrific transgression that you could have in the Scientology religion than to alter the technology.”

Wut? Does Marty believe think that the Xenu story is some kind of test or what?

Anonymous · Feb 7, 2011

“Mr. Hubbard’s material must be and is applied precisely as written,” Davis said. “It’s never altered. It’s never changed. And there probably is no more heretical or more horrific transgression that you could have in the Scientology religion than to alter the technology.”

But hadn’t certain derogatory references to homosexuality found in some editions of Hubbard’s books been changed after his death?
Davis admitted that that was so, but he maintained that “the current editions are one-hundred-per-cent, absolutely fully verified as being according to what Mr. Hubbard wrote.” Davis said they were checked against Hubbard’s original dictation.
“The extent to which the references to homosexuality have changed are because of mistaken dictation?” I asked.
“No, because of the insertion, I guess, of somebody who was a bigot,” Davis replied.
“Somebody put the material in those—?”
“I can only imagine. . . . It wasn’t Mr. Hubbard,” Davis said, cutting me off.
“Who would’ve done it?”
“I have no idea.”
“Hmm.”
“I don’t think it really matters,” Davis said. “The point is that neither Mr. Hubbard nor the church has any opinion on the subject of anyone’s sexual orientation. . . .”
“Someone inserted words that were not his into literature that was propagated under his name, and that’s been corrected now?” I asked.
“Yeah, I can only assume that’s what happened,” Davis said.
After this exchange, I looked at some recent editions that the church had provided me with. On page 125 of “Dianetics,” a “sexual pervert” is defined as someone engaging in “homosexuality, lesbianism, sexual sadism, etc.” Apparently, the bigot’s handiwork was not fully excised.

lol pwned!

subgenius · Feb 7, 2011

leafs said: ↑

Providing the New Yorker with forged documents was a very clever move.
Good to hear the FBI is investigating.
Great article, I like the fact checking approach instead of the 'remain neutral, just presenting points of view' approach.

Thinking is the hardest work of all. That's why so few of us engage in it.

Sponge · Feb 7, 2011

subgenius · Feb 7, 2011

Googled for news of $cientology and found this Joan Rivers Tweet:
"I still don't get football. If I want to see a bunch of men jumping on top of each other, I’ll go to the sauna at the Scientology center."
http://twitter.com/Joan_Rivers

Anon1942 · Feb 7, 2011

Hope this is the finish and $cientology will have to pay for deprograming their dupes.

mirele · Feb 7, 2011

LurkingObesity said: ↑

I think the story is pretty boring until page 15 or so. Unless you're super interested in Haggis's personal life. I'm on the last page now, but I think my favorite part is going to be:

such snark. Love it.

Edit:
My main problem with it is the part discussing Hubbard disappearing in the 80's. It mentions that he did so during two major lawsuits against the church, but at no point mentions anything about the FBI raids and Operation Snow White / Freakout. It seemed kind of weird to not mention he was involved in such an investigation. It would've taken one sentence and seemed extremely relevant to the point the author was trying to make. Oh well.

To those who don't have the time but want a good laugh, I suggest starting at page 22 or so and going from there. That's where Tommy Davis starts getting severely called on his bullshit.

The article came in at just under 25,000 words, which is enormous. You also have to remember, there's a book being shopped around. I suspect there's a lot more out there to be discussed. But yeah, I would have preferred a sentence or two laying out the cult's venal criminality back in the late 1970s. OTOH, the discussion taking apart the "editing" of Elwrong's books is clever and to the point.

LocalSP · Feb 7, 2011

“Mr. Hubbard’s material must be and is applied precisely as written,” Davis said. “It’s never altered. It’s never changed. And
there probably is no more heretical or more horrific transgression that you could have in the Scientology religion than to alter the technology.”

But hadn’t certain derogatory references to homosexuality found in some editions of Hubbard’s books been changed after his death?
Davis admitted that that was so, but he maintained that “the current editions are one-hundred-per-cent, absolutely fully verified as being according to what Mr. Hubbard wrote.” Davis said they were checked against Hubbard’s original dictation.
“The extent to which the references to homosexuality have changed are because of mistaken dictation?” I asked.
“No, because of the insertion, I guess, of somebody who was a bigot,” Davis replied.
“Somebody put the material in those—?”
“I can only imagine. . . . It wasn’t Mr. Hubbard,” Davis said, cutting me off.
“Who would’ve done it?”
“I have no idea.”
“Hmm.”
“I don’t think it really matters,” Davis said. “The point is that neither Mr. Hubbard nor the church has any opinion on the subject of anyone’s sexual orientation. . . .”
“Someone inserted words that were not his into literature that was propagated under his name, and that’s been corrected now?” I asked.
“Yeah, I can only assume that’s what happened,” Davis said.
After this exchange, I looked at some recent editions that the church had provided me with. On page 125 of “Dianetics,” a “sexual pervert” is defined as someone engaging in “homosexuality, lesbianism, sexual sadism, etc.” Apparently, the bigot’s handiwork was not fully excised.

Seeing that Marty is one to follow LRH to the letter,(0r so he says time and time again) that must mean that he believes that homosexuality is a perverted act.

mirele · Feb 7, 2011

Orson said: ↑

Freedom Magazine article attacking Pulitzer-Prize winning writer Lawrence Wright in 3....2.....1.

Think they'll mail it to everyone in NYC? Or go buy all copies of The New Yorker?

Oh, what about those of us who get our New Yorkers in the mail on (yeah, I live in flyover country) Friday? D'you think the local org will try to steal it out of my mailbox?

Anonymous · Feb 7, 2011

Church of Scientology 'under FBI probe into alleged human trafficking'

The ongoing FBI investigation also focuses on Miscavige's alleged 'Hollywood-star' lifestyle.
U.S. law bans the head of a tax-exempt organisation from enjoying 'unusual perks or compensation', called inurement.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...-alleged-human-trafficking.html#ixzz1DHcciLw8

A-non-non-anon · Feb 7, 2011

mirele said: ↑

Oh, what about those of us who get our New Yorkers in the mail on (yeah, I live in flyover country) Friday? D'you think the local org will try to steal it out of my mailbox?

IF you think they might, set up a camera.

Tampering with the USPS is a Federal offence, IIRC... Be fun to give the FBI another incident to add to their "Scientology crimes" file...

LocalSP · Feb 7, 2011

It seems that Miscavige may go the way of Jim Bakker.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bakker

Anonymous · Feb 7, 2011

LocalSP said: ↑

It seems that Miscavige may go the way of Jim Bakker.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bakker

Except hopefully, Diddy Davey gets moar Bubba

WagTheWog · Feb 7, 2011

Posting in epic thread . . . you may now return to your fapping.
Can't wait until the sci response. That should be equally hilarious.
And to Tommy Davis: You better get out NOW! Go to the FBI ASAP! Save yourself!!

subgenius · Feb 7, 2011

WagTheWog said: ↑

Posting in epic thread . . . you may now return to your fapping.
Can't wait until the sci response. That should be equally hilarious.
And to Tommy Davis: You better get out NOW! Go to the FBI ASAP! Save yourself!!

this

subgenius · Feb 7, 2011

I think I heard DM snap. Really.

Optimisticate · Feb 7, 2011

Anonymous said: ↑

It's almost over. Get ready to play "Where In The World Is David Miscavige".

Should be playing "Where In The World Is Shelley Miscavige" and wondering why anyone isn't really concerned...

Miranda · Feb 7, 2011

Optimisticate said: ↑

Should be playing "Where In The World Is Shelley Miscavige" and wondering why anyone isn't really concerned...

Pretty much everything in this article except the confirmation of an FBI investigation has already been revealed in credible, high-profile news outlets. Now people (Today Show, for example) are listening. Maybe it's just that mention of the FBI caught their attention, but on the other hand maybe it's the cumulative effect of all the paper cuts. People are finally starting to notice, and to give a second look, and to believe the seemingly incredible stories. The Teflon is wearing thin. This is very, very pleasing.

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26 Page New Yorker article about Paul Haggis and scientology Possible FBI investigation

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