If you have ever stopped talking or associating with somebody in your life for any reason whatsoever, should we from now on refer to you as a "DISCONNECTOR"?. And of course you have cut at least one person in your life or you have lived a low stakes life alone under a rock and never dealt with people. Who in WWP has never cut at least one person out of their lives or shunned a person for some reason that you felt was totally justified and still do. There may be exceptions but they are exceptions. It is part of human frailty to do this.
Non of the honest answers to this question are flattering to me so I would prefer not to answer till I speak with my lawyer
Yes, you have a totally sound and valid point in my opinion. The dynamic that arises from this kind of activity I initiated is predictable. I have to accept the consequences of expressing the opinions I am expressing where I am expressing them.
ok well I obviously didn't understand your intent If your argument is just that people DO disconnect from others in life, well then yes they do. But by their own choice. Are you are saying that scientologists have a choice whether to disconnect from someone or not? And technically in the end it is their final say? If they don't cave to pressure and refuse to disconnect, then they will be declared and shunned. Is this what you are trying to say? That in the end it is still the person's own final choice whether to disconnect or not, even if they are being tortured to do so and under extreme duress?
The difference is that we don't do that under threat to our "eternity" or "spiritual progress". Or of having other people we love doing it to us. Yes other organizations do the same thing. We call them cults. They do it for the same reason Hubbard did it, so they can have a nice little army of empty eyed zombies. Are you going to argue that disconnection is like divorce next ? I've seen sciloons use that stupid boneheaded argument elsewhere.
Yes. Not exactly but close enough for jazz. So what? Do it. Hogwash. I am being "tortured" by your melodrama right now!!! You will probably enjoy the new "Thor: the Dark World" movie, myself, I am going to pass on it.
Blah blah blah who cares. If it is not one thing it is another, we have a planet full of people bullying and manipulating each other. This planet needs a reboot. Scientology ain't doing anything special that you and I are not doing. That is my point of view anyway. If you say so boss.
Isn't that what people do here? agree with each other or argue? Where am I so out of line with the activities here?
Wrong. I do not threaten people that their eternity is at stake if they don't disconnect. You said earlier that this place "shuns" you, and that's just like sciloon disconnection. ORLY? You still writing your crap. You've not even been banned. Getting "dislike" votes is apparently just like sciloon disconnection - just like having your parent or child decide to never answer your calls or mails. Yeah, right. In that little universe you've postulated maybe. The same one where shooting multimillion dollar movies is just like a tour in Afganistan.
People choose to have "eternity" or "spiritual progress" be more important to them. And at some point they may no longer play along with that = all the people leaving the Church of Scientology in droves, at least that is how it appears. I respect people choice to stay as much as I respect their choice to leave. If they asked my opinion, I would say, leave, that place is wickedy wickedy wacked, but only if they asked me for my opinion. Some people choose to be hermits and have being alone be more important to them then being with others. Some people chose to stockpile guns, some people choose to go to Haiti and help the misfortunate and leave there own families back in cozy US. Some people choose to be homeless, some people choose to be obese, people choose all kinds of things I find bizarre and illl advised, but I don't get to say how others live their lives and they have fuck all to say how I live mine. Try and tell me how to live my life and see how that works out for you. I am in good shape and have an angry side I would just love to show anyone who tries to tell me who I am and what I should oir should not do. The only person I blindly go along with is the guy or gal in the car with the blue lights who tells me to pull over at the side of the road. I agree that i have almost no say in that situation.
Ok lets do an experiment. "Threaten" me "that" my "eternity is at stake" if I don't do something you want me to do and let's see how far that gets you.
Only if you submit yourself to years of processes designed to brainwash you first. Processes that gradually made gross abuse acceptable and normal to you. And if part of your family will refuse to speak to you ever again if you don't. That you won't be allowed to visit them even if they are hospitalized and near death. Have you ever met a battered wife ?
Too bad. This is the context of the threat that is used within cults to motivate disconnection or shunning. This is what we are talking about when we talk about disconnection. So, tell us again how people who've been disconnected from their parents or children should just get over it and get a life, how they're so very wrong to do everything in their power to get back in contact with them.
I am ok with it. That is the "context" you have sculpted and bring to the party. It is not THE official context that I must recognize or buy into. That context does not exist for me. I do recognize and will respect that it does for you and it is where you are coming from. I get that totally. No.
If you wish to force YOUR "context" on others, and if you take the case that YOU have the right true context for viewing and discussing this topic and all others who do not agree with you have the wrong incorrect context for viewing and discussing this topic, then what does that say about you?
The context that I bring ? LOL. I'm just another nameless fag on the internet. We are legion. This is the context that those who've been disconnected bring. If you want to know how you'd react to a threat used to make you disconnect from loved ones, you have to place yourself in the same context as those who've done it were. A threat to your eternity means nothing if you don't believe in it and if you don't believe the one doing the threatening. Of course you're going to tell me to go fuck myself if I threaten your eternity. That threat means absolutely nothing from a nameless mammal with an internet connection. Do you seriously think this is the context people in which people stop talking to their parents or children in real life ?
I have nothing more to add. Thank-you for tolerating me , I am not unaware that I can be an insufferable self righteous prick. I guess we are just pulled to do what we do on the internet. Thanks for the debate.
Yes, yes!!! please let's only have ONE single point of view on display here lest anyone get the false impression that individuals are actually thinking for themselves here and expressing a variety of point of views on the topic. Dome this "Mothshit" pronto! (Whatever "doming" is.) Stream line the troubling non conforming thought here quick!!!!! You have my vote! DOME IT!
Ah the old, "A is just like B. You don't get mad at B so why mad at A?" Usually A shares similarities with B but is different. The differences may seem minor. Maybe both share a quality but differ only in the strength of that quality. Many people practice social shunning. For example, good doctors usually avoid hanging out with doctors who promote quackery. So social shunning in and of itself isn't bad. However, Scientology's version of it is awful because it involves a kind of bait and switch and a totalitarian subculture. Bait and switch: You don't find out what life is like for a truly dedicated Scientologist when you take that first Stress Test. You are induced to invest in Scientology gradually. Slowly every reward that motivates you to get up in the morning becomes Scientology. People who leave the cult say it takes a decade or more to recover from that. Totalitarianism: The core of Scientology is at war and runs as a covert military unit with a uniformed captain at the helm. Scientologists believe that mankind is likely doomed unless they give everything they have to the war effort. There is no "agree to disagree" in a war zone. You're either with the program or you are the enemy and will be treated as such. That's what disconnection is about in Scientology --no fraternizing with the enemy, or else. War time organizations are necessary during periods of armed conflict, sadly, but they are dangerous to a free society in a time of peace. Once a militarized organization obtains political power it becomes self perpetuating until it is somehow destroyed. We have traditionally kept our own military forces --with their powerful weapons, spy networks, and infiltration plots-- aimed outward against perceived international threats for good reasons. tl;dr: People need to know that disconnection threats in Scientology are serious business before they take that first Stress Test.
Moth, imagine this scenario - You're married to a beautiful person, your soul-mate, with a couple of kids. One day, that person comes to you and tells you that he/she has joined a new group that he/she really likes. A few weeks later, you are invited to 'check it out for yourself', so you go along, but you immediately get creeped-out by the love-bombing, the group-think, and the weird language they all parrot. Imagine that, the very next week, you get an ultimatum - you have to join the group, or your loved-one has to leave (and take the kids) and you cannot have any contact with them. At the same time, you notice that your bank account has gone down alarmingly, as a result of 'donations' to the group. Then, imagine that some people come to your door late at night, to talk to your loved one. You overhear them ordering him or her to disconnect from you. What do you do? Shrug your shoulders and tell yourself 'it's everyone's right to choose', just accept it and move on? Come to WWP and tell everyone how they're doinitwrong? In the words of the prophet, in the bowels of Christ I beseech you, lurk moar.
If you would allow….I guess I had a few more bits to feed to the "dome". Are there not perilous long term far reaching unforeseen consequences and risks for any and all choices we make all of the time? Is leaping into life blindly not what all humans are doing all of the time? There are people (I know) who never do anything until they have been explained and presented all the angles, risks and consequences before they commit and then they go forward with a false sense that they have covered every angle only to find that life does not work like that. nd they still come face to face with consequences of their choice. Pink cheeked Kids sign up and are sent to places like Afghanistan and did the military who took their application and trained them show them videos of kids who have gone before them lying in pools of blood and basically blown to pieces, before they signed the contract? is that fair? "Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Security does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than exposure." Hellen Keller
LOL, I laugh my ass off. I am a single man again. BOOM! I am not with people because I need them to make my life complete (or any of that fake romantic Jerry Maquire horseshit). I wave bu-by to the other and sort out my stuff, truly laughing all the way. I would never stand in the way of another person pursuing some avenue that they say they want to, especially in the scenario you presented. Oh gosh no. Can't for the life of me understand why people cling to each other in the needy way that they do at times, given the size of the earth and the number of people on it.
Just because most decisions for most people are not as fully informed as they could be doesn't mean that our effort to better inform the public about Scientology's disconnection policy is without value.
Agreed. I am not of the opinion that your efforts are without value. Just that some of the efforts can be, at times, overly exaggerated and contain some distortions that I find extreme, unattractive and unbalanced.
It's something called love, dude! But it doesn't show on Hubbard's tone scale. Scientology has no love, so no wonder you're puzzled.
Fair enough. "The enemy" ultimately is not Scientology but our own blindness to this real world that we share with each other. We are forever hallucinating a little, mis-remembering a little, and using others as props in our own ego-dramas. Can't really be helped. Scientology has a way of making people feel good about their own ego centrism. "What's true for you is true for you," etc. So it's really annoying.
You laugh your ass off that you can't see your kids again and that someone you love has emptied your bank account to pay for some bogus cult that is transforming them into an empty eyed zombie follower. Okay. Tell me, is this how you'd react if you saw that same person, who is totally free to make her own choices, a few years later, or your kids, among the dead of a jonestown-like mass suicide ?
I define love as acceptance, nothing more nothing less. If you want to attach all those romantic hollywood notions: need, attachment, infatuation, obsession and all that Wuthering Heights drama, well go for it Enjoy the inevitable suffering. I have found that accepting others to be the highest expression of love that a person can offer. I do not call a nutty unhappy person jumping off a building because another person does not "love" them, love. Please do not "love" me like that, I have no use for it.
There is nothing exaggerated or distorted regarding this account which you utterly ignored and which has happened far far too often with this cult: You're married to a beautiful person, your soul-mate, with a couple of kids. One day, that person comes to you and tells you that he/she has joined a new group that he/she really likes. A few weeks later, you are invited to 'check it out for yourself', so you go along, but you immediately get creeped-out by the love-bombing, the group-think, and the weird language they all parrot. Imagine that, the very next week, you get an ultimatum - you have to join the group, or your loved-one has to leave (and take the kids) and you cannot have any contact with them. At the same time, you notice that your bank account has gone down alarmingly, as a result of 'donations' to the group. Then, imagine that some people come to your door late at night, to talk to your loved one. You overhear them ordering him or her to disconnect from you. I have met far too many people that have experienced very similar to the above, and whose families have been torn apart. Now kindly fuck off and troll elsewhere.
That would need to be worked out. I would make sure the kids are happy and have what they need or body parts would be flying. It would not be about me it would be about them If I was robbed the police would be called immediately. Spare me your "jonestown-like mass suicide" BS. Thanks.
