A humble proposal.

Discussion in 'Support Questions' started by Anonymous, Oct 21, 2010.

  1. sue Administrator

    Re: A humble proposal.

    Thank you for repeating what you said to da5id, i didn't get wind of some of those suggestions. Notes taken and appreciated

    I can see problems with users "signing their posts" unless signing is done in the same manner as anonymous posting. i.e tick "make this post non anonymous". The idea is interesting details should be worked out tho.

    Starting threads in one or two places! Hah, it would add some work onto the daily mod routine but it has many considerable advantages, and I guess it would even out with the time saved moving reported threads. Another advantage would be that there would be more coherence as to where threads end up, and as you pointed out there would be more eyeballs on the threads initially.

    Forums where this might cause some minimal issues are the regional and non english ones, but i guess those could remain as they are Or actually use some rethinking aswell.

    Putting some lipstick on the pig... i hear you, it would be fantastic to get this done but in between ddos, moderating, IRL and the thin budget we have to do it with it is going to take... time. Were not actively pushing for "site improvement" donations. Donation drives for the site have a high probability of not ending well, the enturbulation debacle kind of screwed that up for us i think.
  2. Re: A humble proposal.

    we would lose 9999 members instantly.

    this will change when people gain confidence. Consider, most donations go through paypal and if people feel that mods are not stringent then their personal data is at risk. How can we do this and remain anon?

    Consider also to have one or two mods on the books to do investigatory work solely on IP addresses, anon trolls who are beyond the lulz and sock accounts. I imagine that is quite a handful for current mods and destructive trolls are taking advantage? These people can then return their findings back to admin who can make a determination.
  3. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    I think you could do a "reveal my identity option" so should an anon thread get to a point where people need to contact a certain person all their posts in that thread are revealed with an identity.

    I'm pretty sure the time required to custom mod it would be better spent watching porn. Considering the OP was just mocking to then go on to fundamentally change how this site works based on this thread...well...if you're bored enough :)
  4. sue Administrator

    Re: A humble proposal.

    We do receive donations towards most of what keeps the site running, we do so on a regular basis, and have done so for approximately a year and a half --without any complaints i am aware of.

    While in theory most people with a little creativity and perseverance can slap a site design together they will always lack the finishing touch of a professional, and as you can imagine a quality freelance designer does not come cheap. What i was talking about is donation drives geared towards such relatively expensive improvements, much like when enturbulation did their "network upgrade" ending in one of the admins absconding with both the hardware and money. I can not help but feel we could revive some serious trauma if we were to announce we plan to invest in any form of significant upgrade.

    At what stage do posts change from anonymous to not anonymous? Is there some automatic trigger or do mods have to push a button?
    It wouldn't be based on this thread but more because it could create new and better realities and improve conditions.
  5. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    I'll drink to that
  6. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    Some good ideas here.

    Which reminds me, I started this thread and therefore I am responsible for anything good that comes of it. If anything bad comes of it, well that just means that you guys fucked it up.

  7. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    Skeptic's last post/ideas that he shared with Da5id sound good, IMHO. I think it's fair to everyone and has the potential to eventually reduce the mods' need to babysit.

    Regarding your question, I interpreted Skeptic's idea to be that changing a post from anonymous to non-anonymous would be done at the individual user's discretion, per post. They'd need to manually check a tick-box for each post they wanted named, as it's now done when a poster wants to post anonymously.

    That's the way I took it, anyway.
  8. Miranda Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    A clarification for anyone who didn't get it: The posted list of topics is just that--not recommendations but merely a summary of the topics and opinions expressed in this thread. It's meant to make it easier to focus discussion and as a starting point for creating a list of viable ideas.
  9. sue Administrator

    Re: A humble proposal.

    That is the way i understood it the first time around, not sure what he meant the second time when i asked for confirmation.
  10. BLiP Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    So set up a sock and use that to make the statement. No one is forcing anyone to do anything.
  11. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    lol sock

  12. TinyDancer Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    Best post of the thread.

    *attempts to hug sue*
  13. Re: A humble proposal.

    I think you need to delineate the importance of different categories first so we have a base to form discussions on and refer back to.

    For example:
    1. Protection against potential Scio trolls.
    2. Protection against troublesome trolls
    3. Protection against tinfoilaggotry
    4. etc etc..

    Also we need to protect good trolls (like OP) and have a certain resistance to lukewarm trolls such as herro.

    I think everything should first and foremost revolve around the activism against Scientology and allowing an environment where that activism has better chance of success. This should be the starting point of all thinking.
  14. rof Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    duh, faggot

    OP is Herro
  15. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    Some times things happen that just make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  16. sue Administrator

    Re: A humble proposal.

    For the record, this is not to be interpreted sexually. I swear nothing happened.
  17. rof Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

  18. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    /r/ rule 34
  19. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    We'll see what you say when the results of the paternity test come back.

  20. DENNY Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    ...that is NOT What i saw on xtube......
  21. whosit Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    Random shit I'll post about, even though I'm not around all that often anymore other than to be a dick.

  22. Miranda Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    If we infract for mislabeling, we should provide a very clear list of how-to-label-a-new-thread requirements--maybe it could appear as a reminder whenever someone starts a new thread?

    I like the post requirement for anonymous posting. There would need to be a way of "not counting" one-word or nonsense posts, though. Maybe those posts would count against the total? It starts to sound complicated for moderators, don't know if there's any way of making it magickally automatic.

    I would love to be able to reward users rather than only infracting them. This would be faster than sending a PM.

    If the posts are tinted, we can just skip them if we're having a bad day.
  23. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    This is where you walk the perilous path of moderation. Once you begin thrusting your opinion as to what is a good post / bad post you are not "moderating", you are guiding. It will end in tears.

    If it's a "good post" the feedback should be fucking obvious by the responses.

    Now if you're into rewarding users, my balls could use a good cleaning :)
  24. Miranda Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    Updated List of Ideas

    Below are all the ideas that I could find in the thread. I'm not recommending them, just listing them for further discussion.

    Anonymous Posting
    • Impose a far higher, "letter-of-the-law" adherence to existing standards when posting anonymously.
    • Make anonymous posting a privilege that has to be earned and can be taken away when abused. For example: you may not post anonymously until you have made 100 (or 120-250) posts. You will lose the right to post anonymously after three infractions after which your post count goes back to zero and you start again.
    • Allow mods to award points to anonymous posters who make relevant and useful posts, and also to take away such points.
    • Impose forced anon posting in YSOSRS
    • Allow users to add anonymous posters to ignore list—anonymous posts by the same user would then be ignored.
    • Stop the first two replies in any thread from being Anonymous.
    • Tie anonymous douchebaggery directly to the user’s account.
    • Make anonymous posting at the thread level—if the thread is "anon" all posts are anonymous. If the thread is not anon no posts are anonymous. If a thread evolves from needing to have user names associated with it, the users can simply "sign" their posts from that point forward or start a new one with anonymous turned off.
    • Comments on above idea: Signing should be done in the same manner as anonymous posting. i.e tick "make this post non anonymous." Do a "reveal my identity option" so should an anon thread get to a point where people need to contact a certain person, all their posts in that thread are revealed with an identity.
    • Require an intelligence test of new users. Those who reach a very stringent score of 35 or above get to post, 100 allows anonymous posts.
    • Allow changing a post from anonymous to non-anonymous at the individual user's discretion, per post, by manually checking a tick-box for each post they want named, as it's now done when a poster wants to post anonymously.
    • If a thread evolves from needing to have user names associated with it, the users can simply "sign" their posts from that point forward or start a new one with anonymous turned off.

    Bans and Infractions
    • Make moderator misbehavior infractible.
    • Rid ourselves from most infractions / rules and instead adopt a forum etiquette, as in a clear code of expected conduct. Bans would still be a last resort for those pushing the boundaries of reasonable conduct. Allow mods to infract or in some way respond to serious stuff, use guidelines or reminders for the small stuff.
    • Instead of using infractions, and adding points to an automatic ban tally, allow mods to highlight posts by handing out warnings, explaining why certain conduct is in general undesired.
    • Define "suggested conduct” with a formal list enumerating things that are not explicitly against the rules but are considered horribly annoying.
    • Infract liberally to desensitize users.
    • Add a big friendly message to infractions, telling folk: "getting infractions is a normal part of the give and take of the site, and the mods like to play nazi sometimes, but getting butthurt over a low-value infraction just makes you look butthurt."
    • Create a short list of actions that would generate an automatic 1 week ban, 1 month ban or lifetime ban. Clear-cut bad behavior that can't be questioned.
    • Create an additional "infraction" list for the second grouping which isn't so much a warning or infraction, but more a label with which to highlight fuckwittery.
    • Nuke the infraction system and just issue temp or perm bans for inappropriate posting (violence/doxing).

    Speculation, Possible Tin Foil Forum
    • Re-purpose YSOSRS as a tin foil forum
    • Make the posts or threads copied to a tin foil forum show up as a different color or with a different icon
    • Have whatever mod is on duty mark threads copied to a tin foil forum by inserting an asterisk at the beginning of every such thread title.
    • Keep speculation publicly accessible, but with a clearly visible disclaimer: This section of the site is meant for speculation, reader discretion is advised in determining the veracity of anything said here.
    • Add a box for mods to check for speculative content, so that the post could be easily distinguished as speculative, but could still remain in the original thread.
    • Allow users and mods to designate a post as "speculation." Have that post appear in a different color, font, whatever, and let it stay in the original thread.
    • If previous idea is implemented, include appropriate HTML in the code that designates the post's layers as id='speculation' or class='speculation', or some such for the client to change how the post is displayed.
    • Put in an icon in the post icon, those who fail to check the icon can receive one infraction for tinfoil speculation, one for failing to check the icon that alerts readers of tinfoil speculation, one for posting in the incorrect forum, and finally one for speculation while not having reached at least 120 posts.
    • Send repeated posters of speculation a PM just saying that they're being highlighted (in burnt umber).
    • Have mods not on initial tinfoil speculation but on subsequent dead-horse-beating.
    • Allow users to put all posts flagged as Speculative on their ignore lists without adding the actual posters to their lists.
    • Move threads, not specific posts, to a tinfoil forum.
    • Move specific posts, and not threads only, to a tinfoil forum.

    Other Ideas
    • Ensure that mods or users update OPs with new info, links, dox, etc. on a consistent basis.
    • Make a comprehensive list of users' pet peeves
    • Create some sort of clearly visible indication of what posts aren't cool.
    • Allow users to vote thumbs up and down for individual posts.
    • If previous idea is implemented, require those who are allowed to vote to have made 500 posts. Or create a caucus of trusted members that have met all requirements, reputation, posts and various contributions.
    • Create a 'this post is retarded' community flagging button, that gives the post a corner flag - in say, burnt umber, after a few votes.
    • Add caveats in the infraction text to explain more clearly what consequences of (or really lack thereof) getting carded.
    • Add a reputation feature.
    • Add a permanent account name for trolling, rotating among various posters on a weekly/monthly basis (and done so anonymously).
    • Decrease the font size of bad posts.
    • Infract for bigotry.
    • Make threads originate one or two places and then mods can move them to the appropriate sub forum once the content is divined.
    • Impose infractions or warnings for OP’s who incorrectly label threads. Or given warnings for since they could be new; infract for starting speculation without not yet reaching 120 posts.
    • Encourage users to donate to WWP to make website changes possible, but don’t promote donation drives.
    • Allow users to down-vote specific posts to the dome.

    Miscellaneous Annoying Things
    • Making jokes about being paid by big pharma.
    • Making any jokes about getting paid to protest.
    • Inserting $ anywhere into The Church of Scientology or any associated abbreviations.
    • Making jokes about David Miscavige being short.
    • Making jokes about David Miscavige hitting people.
    • Caring about celebrity gossip.
    • Making bad puns (Ie "Bridge to total freedumb." "John Ravolta," ect)
    • Using any form of the word "lulz."
    • Making stale jokes about the dome, such as calling it the RPF of WWP.
    • Using anonymous posting to make mean remarks
    • Stale jokes and memes
    • Abuse of the 'Post Anonymously' tick box, am referring to Flaming/Trolling, Thread Spamming/Derailing and Personal Attacks etc.
    • Posts or threads that are very argumentative without offering anything new
    • Over the line: threats/personal attacks, promoting illegal activity, misuse of sock accounts.
    • Over the line: illegality, giving away personal details, spam, importing drama.
  25. Miranda Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    I agree, we'd have to be careful not to inject too much personality into rewards or infractions. And I realize that adding any kind of power tends to sound... like a power grab. But since we're asked to make negative judgments (and I don't think it's practical to entirely do away with infractions), I'd be grateful for the chance to also make positive judgments about posts of any opinion that are well argued and/or well documented, or that bring up useful new information or ideas. Infracting is necessary occasionally but shouldn't be the primary job of moderators--this is part of why we're perceived as humorless nazi communist illuminati etc. etc. It's like being a teacher who's only allowed to flunk people or send them to the corner.

    I don't think it's that hard to spot the occasional truly thought-provoking post. I often PM such posters anyway--would be simpler to award points. I was going to PM you about your excellent post yesterday but I didn't want to annoy you :p
  26. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    Agree all you want, it's a bad idea.

    The "judgement" calls you speak of are the problem with the infraction system. Adding a new level of retardedness to it creates more problems.

    You might be the most intuitive mod ever to walk the face of the earth you'd still get it wrong. If you're moderating things because you don't like the tone or the thought, you should probably stop.

    Doesn't matter how subtle you try to be doing that kind of thing even all these exes will smell your "leadarrfag" taint and eventually cause a ruckus. I'm sure a well mannered ruckus but a ruckus none the less. You really don't want a ruckus on your hands now do you.

    Other than that you make great lists!
  27. sue Administrator

    Re: A humble proposal.

    Been looking for the definition of arrogance, had it right in front of me all this time.
  28. Psychose Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    Why would anyone believe they'd be paid to protest anyways?
  29. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    Mirrors are a bitch aren't they.
  30. Re: A humble proposal.

    the man speaks the truth.

    It will not negate some of the points brought up.

    We need more ideas on how we can be protected by mod egofaggoty not encourage it more.
  31. sue Administrator

    Re: A humble proposal.

    We have been over this before, you have in fact been domelocked months ago because you apparently felt providing good ideas entitled you the right of unnecesarily berating people.

    I removed your domelock a couple of weeks ago after you had been winging about your inability to contribute constructively to a then ongoing discussion. While your ideas still have merit and some of them are being considered for near future use, i am left with no other choice but to let you go.

    He absolutely had a point, a damn shame it was drowned out by ad-hom, a simple solution to avoid (if there is such a thing) mod "egofaggotry" is to treat them in the same manner you'd wish to be treated. i.e with a slight amount of human decency. That being said the irony lies within those complaining about "egofaggotry" tending to make threads about themselves and their perceived persecution.
  32. Re: A humble proposal.

    How very unfortunate Skeptic has been banned. He made important contributions to this forum imho, even if in a curmudgeonly manner.

    Too bad.
  33. sue Administrator

    Re: A humble proposal.

    It is too bad.
  34. Miranda Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    I agree.
  35. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    Good,i am glad we are reaching consensus on the bad thing.
  36. Re: A humble proposal.

    its pathetic. Not too bad.

    The only reason why no one's saying it is because the fear of domelock.

    Exclusion from the group. Disconnection.
  37. Anonymous Member

    Re: A humble proposal.

    Why did Skeptic1337 deserve to be banned? Did he hurt your feelings?
  38. sue Administrator

  39. Anonymous Member

  40. Re: A humble proposal.

    I agree, that was not warranted. Was that it?

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