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A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 2100

Discussion in 'Media' started by Sponge, Sep 15, 2010.

  1. Anonymous Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    i only used proselytizing because the narconon in question is in the us and thus scientology can claim to be a religion without being taken to task for crimes committed behind that shield

    wahteversdfa
  2. Anonymous Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Anonymous
    Thanks for the link. Did Tommy screw up?

    I understand that is what they claim, this video prove that is not the case??
  3. Smurf Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    It depends on who's watching the video. I know it does, but others coming from a purely legalistic standpoint, may disagree.
  4. Anonymous Member

    Note to lurking Scientologists

    It's Thursday.

    Some very, ah, interesting stats to be reported this week.

    If you're a Scientologist and you're worried about the mental and/or physical abuse that you might suffer as a result of the problems that have happened this week... you don't have to endure this. It is unreasonable to expect that you should be the scapegoat for the failures at the top. Management is always trying to find somebody to blame.

    Get out. Don't "route out"; that would expose you to worse abuse and it would cost even more money. Just blow. Get up, right now, and walk away. Get back in touch with your family: they will help you.

    Freeloader debt is unenforceable.

    You can continue training in Dianetics & Scientology - if you want to. The Freezone has everything that the Church of Scientology does. But above all, get out, get safe, get healthy and be happy. You don't have to become a protester: just walk away and have a great life.

    Or stay, and endure another week like this. And another... and another. Is this what you got into Scientology to do? You're not efficient or effective when operating like this. It's time to do something better. For the greater good of the greatest number of dynamics: blow.
  5. Sponge Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    The programme is being repeated on BBC 1 again as well as on BBC News.
    Here's the remaining schedule...
    Sun 3 Oct 2010 20:00 BBC News Channel.
    Mon 4 Oct 2010 00:35 BBC One (except Northern Ireland).
    Thu 7 Oct 2010 00:45 BBC One (Northern Ireland only)

    so you can add even moarrrrr to the existing 4.8 million viewers that it got on the first showing.
  6. Anonymous Member

    Re: Note to lurking Scientologists

    You do not need to be controlled by a leader...you can make up your own mind.

    Be yourself. People will love you for it.

    BTW, I guess the camera adds pounds...Marc must be eating really good these days.
  7. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    The Beeb is like a machine gun of win right now.
  8. Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    Please send this to Private Eye. They print these things.
  9. Anonymous Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210


    Scan please scan please!

    c.f. http://www.xenu-directory.net/news/images/20100318-privateeye-p29.gif



    That made her look mental.




    That's not correct: it's the other way around.

    The cult is not a charity in the UK.

    It was refused registration by the Charities Commission in 1999, whose verdict was that the cult should "fuck off" (I paraphrase).

    The UK operations are run under the umbrella of COSREC, an Australian corporation which has falsely claimed to be a charity (e.g. in the application documents to City of London for tax relief - we have these papers).

    Xenophon's investigations and the possible bill in Australia could have a direct effect on the UK operation.



    'Anonymous'




    Good - the UK Charities Commission should be informed of this, as it's part of Nacronon's charity registration in the UK that it is independent from Scientology.



    All true.

    Plenty of people in Scientology are good people - they should simply leave and not look back.
  10. Gomez Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    Mentioning anonymous would seriously open a massive can of worms and would give the anti-panorama doc makers a chance to bring up "terrorism" and "pedophilia" so yeah, probably best that they left us out.
  11. Anonymous Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    Does Sweeney really believe Marty's e-meter shit? sry thruthdetector shit? WTF???
  12. Anonymous Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    Exactly.

    The Sweeney is doing the right thing by keeping us weirdo Anons at arm's length.
  13. Anonymous Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    Being not altogether cynical about all aspects of Scientology makes him look open-minded though, doesn't it.

    Which makes his criticism more effective IMO.
  14. Anonymous Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    IMHO: Marty+Mike are making a PR number for SO here. Call me paraniod ,but their "blowing" could very well be a PR trick. Is there no one who can show that this whole shit just doesn't work and is a scam? And not due to evil Tommy Davis and David Miscavige. It was evil before and will be without them.

    No, I do not think this does make Sweeney look open-minded. Too me it makes him look stupid. Sry.
  15. Anonymous Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    Given that a skin galvanometer actually does measure perspiration levels which are an indicator of stress - no.

    illumin : article : Lie Detection: The Science and Development of the Polygraph

    Stripped of the cult's bullshit and woo-woo, the fact is that measuring skin resistance actually does 'work', although of course the cult's claims for the so-called 'e-meter' are radically inflated.

    So showing that it 'just doesn't work' is gonna be tricky, when it is broadly true that a change in electro-dermal activity (sweat on fingers) can be an indicator of stress.

    Much more straightforward to show that the cult is abusive and exploitative.
  16. Anonymous Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    I think that the point that was made - very effectively - was that the eMeter is a kind of lie detector, and that celebrities and other victims are hooked up to it (and filmed, and files kept) while they give confessions.

    A 'religion' with a lie detector. This gimmick reduces the respectability of the cult, and makes it look more like a wacky 1950s new-age cult.

    The eMeter works - in a sense - and it makes infiltrating the cult particularly difficult. Consider that Channel 4 documentary, a few years back. It's one component of the Scientology brainwashing methodology: a means of getting inside your head by making you believe that your thoughts aren't private. Scary cult is scary.

    If you really want to land a death blow against the cult: send designs for a "toy lie detector" called the EmotiMeter to several manufacturers in Hong Kong. Send the wikileaks circuit diagrams, too. Tell them you want four hundred thousand EmotiMeters in the shops for Christmas, and that it should be priced at $30 retail. Invite quotes.

    Ultimately, you don't have to order anything. If the manufacturers think it'll sell, they'll make the copied eMeters. They're always looking out for ideas. And even if they don't sell well.... we get a better result. A glut of EmotiMeters in the bargain bin at $3.99.

    The cult's unique selling proposition becomes a child's toy.... and we win the game.

    Also, watch out for a range of 'Lord Xenu' action figures....
  17. Anonymous Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    [IMG]

    slimer-560x336.jpg
  18. Anonymous Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    You mean like this?

    Shocking Liar Electric Shock Lie Detector Truth Game products, buy Shocking Liar Electric Shock Lie Detector Truth Game products from alibaba.com

    or this?

    Portable Lie Detector products, buy Portable Lie Detector products from alibaba.com

    or more like this?

    DIGITAL SURFACE RESISTIVITY METER MODEL products, buy DIGITAL SURFACE RESISTIVITY METER MODEL products from alibaba.com

    View attachment images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS-tWqmikQheiL5stwoB22Tt5OgJgzgb


    I couldn't find any of those. Will Zena do?

    ZENA XENA WARRIOR GLADIATOR FANCY DRESS COSTUME 8-10 SM on eBay (end time 07-Oct-10 12:04:20 BST)
  19. Anonymoosh Member

  20. Sponge Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    Galvanic skin resistance is only one channel of a polygraph. On its own it is obviously going to be even less reliable than a polygraph already is. Pretty useless in fact. Then, when you take away the relatively stable contact point and replace it with two huge fucking cans, which rely on your grip to keep them in contact with your skin, then you will rarely be able to set a settled datum, and still remain within a range that is senstive enough to measure the sweat response reliably.

    In that Panorama segment, see how Rathbun has his left thumb on the e-meter knob, constantly having to make adjustments to keep the meter within range. They all do this. They have to. Would you trust a piece of equipment that is inherently unstable and can be deliberately faked from both sides? (you can also fake a real polygraph but it's harder and has to be deliberate).
    Voluntarily or involuntarily, the subject will make minute changes in grip during the session which will make massive changes in resistance which may be greater or similar to any sweat response. It might indicate that you are uncomforatble or deliriously happy about a question, or it might be that you are just generally uncomfortable supporting two cans and that your hands are tired (and sweaty, lol).

    If they eliminated the cans and used proper taped-on contacts, i.e. constant area and constant pressure then they'd would be half-way to getting one channel of a polygraph. The other problem is that, unlike a polygraph where the entire session of data and realtime annotations can be reviewed afterwards, there is no graphical plot over time on an e-meter and you rely on the operator making notes. That's a lot of work and prone to error or abuse. i.e. One thumb on the knob, the other hand is writing and his eyes are darting between the subject, the meter and the paper he's writing the scores on. Altogether, the process and the e-meter is a useless piece of shit. An artificially expensive piece of shit which is also used not just for screwing more money out of you, but also for sea org "security checks" to determine things like whether you ultimately get put into slave labor in the RPF and/or get to be able to see your family ever again.

    Of course most of you here know much of this.
  21. Anonymous Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    The Panorama video and associated articles should certainly go in front of the Information Commissioner (and if necessary the Tribunal), as evidence of public interest, for each of the appeals on our existing FOIA requests.

    - WT.
  22. Anonymous Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    I think the use of any kind of lie detector (working or not) would add a rather unpleasant overtone to any counselling session.

    Not much opportunity to build up trust there I think.

    troi.jpg
  23. Anonymous Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    Jason Beghe to John Sweeney - "Don't yell at me!"

    I lol'd!!
  24. RightOn Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    I think I remember someone reporting that Narconon is NOW listed (their logo) at the bottom of the COS website? and that it never used to be.
    be sure to proxy up if you go there.
  25. TinyDancer Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    Psychiatry and psychology have known for decades that remembering pain/distress - or imagining it! - can cause physiological responses. That's all the emeter shows. That certainly is NOT enough to show that "scientology works". It just means that a voltmeter works. To prove scientology works, the auditing process would need to result in freedom from that reaction when remembering the pain. And it would need to show that the process is somehow different to desensitisation techniques used outside of scientology. Otherwise, we could rightly just say "desensitisation works".
  26. Anonymous Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    That was my point.

    Course not.
  27. peterstorm Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    I watched it again and yeah, his left thumb is touching the tone arm. Watch how he moves the thumb right before putting it in place... He then laughs aloud to get the other person's attention.
  28. Anonymous Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    a comment on the debate blog:

    "As an atheist, hypnotherapist and magician/mentalist entertainer, I was fascinated by just about every aspect of this latest documentary. Notably, from a magician's perspective, I watched the demonstration of the 'e-meter' with genuine concern. The auditor's left hand never leaves the unit while the 'readings' are being processed. For entertainment purposes, this could be considered amusing, but while focussing on the subjects' negative emotions while manipulating the result to one's own ends is quite unforgiveable. In my opinion, if you genuinely want to gain control of your own life, do not hand it over to this organisation."
  29. kernowanon Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    Sounds like Derren Brown a known skeptic, he often blogs about Scientology! Do you have a link??
  30. Anonymous Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    darkmagician.jpg
    I see what you did thar MR
  31. xenubarb Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    Some of them look like Ann Archer.
  32. Anonymous Member

  33. Anonymous Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    Like a pterodactyl about to be taken roughly from behind, in this photo anyway.

    View attachment MV5BMTIzMDU0Mjc2Ml5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwNTMxMDI0._V1_.
  34. Anonymous Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    Might sound a bit random, but is anyone else really really curious as to what Sweeney's "naughty thought" was? Sounds kinky.
  35. AnonLover Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    late to the party but just watched the vids... Sweeney's first piece did a good job at highlighting the ominous and threatening factors of the cult. This one did one helluva job of emphasizing the major creepy factor and it was a job well done imo - the creepiness of scientology comes off so strong albeit subtle, the independents even come across as exuding negative mojo. Plus Amy and Jason were outstanding! <clapclap>
  36. subgenius Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    And the invidious thing is that it is used to remove all human emotional response, not just to "bad" things. And it is kinda human to have a response to things, no?
    Or else we're not human, we're "homo novis".
    Just suppressing response is not good, you end up eventually exploding, ala Rex Fowler, etc.
    Then add in creating false "memories", which then have to be wiped out.
    Not good.
  37. DeathHamster Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    Anyone who didn't have a naughty thought, even a vanilla one, would be a boring person.
  38. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    &quot;Referral Denied
    You don't have permission to access &quot;http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTIzMDU0Mjc2Ml5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwNTMxMDI0._V1_.jpg&quot; on this server.

    Reference #24.14081160.1285865470.1dafcb2 &quot;

    Anyway, you all are missing the point of my question. I know, you know, we all know that AA is brainwashed. What I want to know is, if you didn't already know that, how could you tell by looking at her? What are the physical characteristics of the appearance of a brainwashed person?

    I don't think there are any. I think her question was inherently nonsensical and Sweeney's reaction was about all one could sanely expect from it. That she would ask the question in the first place, and then be offended by his reaction, is evidence that there is something wrong with her, mentally.

    Another interview, another PR fail for the cult. It's hard to put crazy people in front of a camera and get sanity, when the subject is their insanity.
  39. Re: A Panorama Special: Secrets of Scientology, BBC One, Tuesday, 28 September at 210

    Here's a snippet of another comment at the same site - from comment #48 from 'lafayetteron'-

    'course, he went 'clear' in the US - could've rubbed off by the time he moved to the UK, I suppose. Is it extra $$$ for the International/Global/Galactic clear cert?
  40. jensting Member

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