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Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

Discussion in 'Independent Scientology' started by _You_, Dec 29, 2009.

  1. _You_ Member

    Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    Marty Rathburn caught lying

    I just found out Marty spoke of his trip to the Freewinds and gave his reasons for it.

    In March 1995, when I was known as Aaron Tweddell, I went to the ship on a confidential mission. I did not go as an SO member. Although I was in the Sea Org.

    I can tell you that Marty had blown the Sea Org, and had been recovered. However, because his blow was actually not just about doubts on the Sea Org, but on Scientology, he was taken to the ship.

    His handler was the number 2 in charge - the Inspector General, Greg Wilhere.

    I can tell you that he had his ass sec checked to high heaven, and he wasn't there because the tech was better - what is wrong with Int Base? Would you really beleive a course supervisor on the Freewinds is somehow better than the FLB or up at Int where DM goes on course personally? Puleeeeeaze.

    He was there also because he was a weak link for the SO and they didn't want him running aorund the United States being suppeoned.

    He would make you beleive he was on the Freewinds getting his new appreciation of LRH tech - when in fact he was being drilled like a piece of wood by Greg Wilhere on the ship and kept under lock and key.

    Anyone on the ship in early 1995 will tell you the same thing if they had any kind of clearance.

    People out fo the SO who are active against the church can confirm I was on the Ship, such as laura (DT2000) who was involved in me being sent to the Ship in the first place.

    Aaron Saxton (Tweddell)

    Marty Rathburn caught lying - Ex Scientologist Message Board
  2. WTF Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....


    So if you are copypasta-ing Aaron's post from another board, I would expect to see quotes. Else it looks like you are Aaron stupidly using "You".

    Marty probably ended up in front of Greg Wilhere because:

    1) it is a long swim if you want to blow
    2) handy to be not in the US if you have ambulance chasers on your tail
    3) Marty had case handling needed on L-11,L-11Exp, L-12 or L-10 and Cl XII were not available or were unwilling at INT.


    Isn't that the same trip that Aaron pissed off Wilhere and got himself V&?
  3. FUCK Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    Cool story bro!
  4. Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    AH-HA!

    Clearly, Marty is on a deep-cover misson to infiltrate and expose the so-called "Freezone" and "independent" scientologists!

    ...and he would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for those meddling anons, and their stupid dog!

    phantom-scooby-doo-unmask-1.jpg
  5. Herro Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    I got half way through the OP's post before I started jerkin it uncontrollably due to all the talk about marty blowing.
  6. _You_ Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    Why on earth would Greg Wilhere volunteer such information to someone with a lower clearance level who was a courier from middle managment about someone who was senior to Aaron and with higher clearance?
  7. _You_ Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    Wow, some classic bullshit red flags there --e.g., asserting a claim in the form of a question.

    Did "drilling" hit a nerve?
  8. _You_ Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    BFD
  9. _You_ Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    No. I think Aaron's explanation is bullshit.

    1. He's never said what his case level is, but it's pretty much a given that it wasn't high enough for him to have audited Marty or read his sec check info in his pre-OT folders.

    2. Greg wouldn't have told Aaron because Aaron almost certainly wouldn't have had clearance. I'm an ex -- stuff doesn't filter down the org board without authorization, and I disbelieve that Greg told Aaron or that Aaron had clearance.

    So if we take Aaron's tale about why Marty's there as true and Aaron's story about why he was there as true, how did Aaron find out the details about Marty's situation?

    You've got person A doing thing A and person B doing thing B and they're compartmentalized and disrelated and both are need to know. So how does person A find out about thing B?
  10. AnonyMary Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    Aaron never said he audited Marty or read his Sec Check info nor did he say that Greg told him anything personal about Marty's adventure there. What he said was

    "I can tell you that he had his ass sec checked to high heaven, and he wasn't there because the tech was better - what is wrong with Int Base? Would you really beleive a course supervisor on the Freewinds is somehow better than the FLB or up at Int where DM goes on course personally? Puleeeeeaze."

    Why not ask him where he got his information first before you dismiss it ( or do the denial think Scilons are so famous for)?

    When I need to keep a source confidential, I don't reveal who or where I got information when stating it. But since this is WWP, so go ask him first.
  11. _You_ Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    Because people gossip and pick up on obvious shit. If Marty is being guarded and is assigned lower conditions that's pretty obvious - you can see him being followed and watched when he's out on the ship. I'm sure people were aware wasn't your typical suite Marty was staying in, lock on the outside, camera monitoring door, etc.. People would also notice that Marty and Greg are locked in a room together for hours on end every day and safely assumed they ain't playing patty-cakes.

    Information leaks like crazy aboard a ship, since everyone is in close quarters. I can't imagine it was difficult for Aaron to pick up the fact that Marty was fucked (just by the ways other people were treating or avoiding him, comparing that to when previously his ass was kissed by all.) and was getting some heavy ethics and sec check treatment. Cult Executives don't just normally disappear for a year or two aboard the FreeWinds for some pampering and "me" time.

    Everything Aaron has said about his experiences has checked out so far. In fact, given the choice, who should I trust and believe Marty or Aaron? Obvious choice is obvious.
  12. _You_ Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    You repeat red flag #2: misdirection. Everything there is irrelevant.

    Rathburn's power to influence or leverage others rests upon... what?
  13. _You_ Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    He says he got it from Greg. This seems unlikely.

    I'm not saying Marty's more honest. I don't fucking care about Marty, he can go be a moonbat in his corner of the net.

    I'm just saying I disbelieve that, in that situation, Greg would have told Aaron about Marty. It's entirely possible he found out about it through other means, but then why say it was Greg?

    Also, does confidentiality really apply once one's out unless one's protecting someone who's anonymous?

    Most of the stuff Aaron has said has checked out simply and only because other people said it happened before Aaron did. It's easy to say things other people have confirmed. This one detail is bugging me. That's all.
  14. _You_ Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    Obvious choice is obvious: don't assume either of them are telling the truth.
  15. _You_ Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    Where does he say this?
  16. _You_ Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    [IMG]
  17. _You_ Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    Link to transcript page.
  18. _You_ Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    I am really starting to like Aaron, but I am not sure that he realizes that much of what he has been told while in the cult, may or may not have been the truth and could have clouded his perceptions of things. From being supposedly drugged on the flight back after his visit to the freewinds, to believing Reade Emory is running the RTC.

    It doesn't surprise me that Marty was on the FW for the reasons that have been suggested, and it isn't the first time any of us caught Marty in a lie, but Marty also worked at Flag after he left the boat. So if Aaron is correct, Marty either got his "ethics in" (got re-brainwashed) or stopped caring that what he was doing to people at Flag was and operating with full knowledge that he was an asshole.
  19. thetanic Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    I like Aaron, but I know I was told things that were untrue when I was in. Despite not being in a tech position and having no authority to have any information about people's cases, I was told untruths about other people's cases at meetings and overheard it in back room conversations where I was present. I probably also overheard some truths.

    So even if he believes what he was told, or even if he's telling exactly what was said, it doesn't mean it was true.

    Edited to add: Also, there's a very Scn way of characterizing any account that doesn't agree with the official account as lies, and I am afraid that Aaron pushes my buttons that way when he accuses Marty of lying. It feels like being in front of an Ethics Officer again.
  20. Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    Why can't both be telling the truth? Both stories and their particular experience viewpoints align with what we know about how Scientology operates. It is common someone going through these rigorous sec checks will be re-brainwashed. I know of a person who went through this on the FW and experienced the thing that naturally happens when you are intensely brainwashed. You try to reconcile the difference and the contradictions. That person came to the conclusion management was not following tech and blew after signing all the affidavits, 5 years later they realized it was the tech itself. You can't force this process, you can only educate. These sec checks are intense. It can not be underestimated how intense they are and the "re-education" mind fuck is enormous, especially on the ship where you are outside of law and they hold your passport. As far as Marty R is concerned he is telling the truth just like your average scilion believes they are saving the world. It's not lying per se, it's just they have found themselves in an untruth.
  21. TinyDancer Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    No. The rules state we must have a liar.

    4236188680_91ac82a24f_o.jpg
  22. thetanic Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    I agree this is possible, which only makes Aaron ranting about Marty all the sadder.
  23. _You_ Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    It's quite obvious that Aaron still has alot of unresolved emotional issues stemming from his time in the Sea Org. He's looking for validation and isn't getting it with fucktards like Marty.

    Aaron would be wise not to bother calling out Marty and expecting a rational response from him since the two do not see eye-to-eye on anything. Aaron's not going to persuade Marty to change his behavior.

    Aaron needs to take of himself and stop ranting & chastising a brick wall.
  24. Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    I personally like Aaron a lot and on more than one occasion he has shown himself to be able to change his mind and note where he has made mistakes but this is not about liking people or popularity contests, this is about the downfall of everything that is destructive in the CO$.

    I read on one of the cult websites (sorry i can't find the link now) that it takes the average ex-Scientologist 8 years to recover from the brainwashing effects of Scientology (More than any other cult group). So i think we should just take it easy with these guys, they have been through a lot. Our enemy is not them, it is the processes that deceived them in the first place.
  25. _You_ Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    I think it is important that ex's have an alternative to Marty. And I am very glad that he is around. There are people like Aaron that have left and know things.

    IMO Aaron and others like him need to stand up and say what they know. Hopefully others will follow his example and tell everything or at least enough to put some puzzle pieces together. And if that means calling Marty on his lies I am all for that. Someone who was there in the thick of things needs to call Marty out and make him answer the tough questions.

    Marty is trying to whitewash the cult, he is giving many of the same stock answers to questions spokesmen gave while in the cult with the exceptions of saying he can't talk about it because it would give away his secret plan, and blaming DM for everything the wrong in the world. But now that he is on the other side of the issue people automatically take it for granted that he is telling the truth, when we all know the MRs were two of the biggest liars in cult history.
  26. anonymous1312 Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    I agree but Marty is a bit of a special case that warrants special attention because his agenda is to form or reform the organisation with the same goals and ideals of the old one. This will inevitably result in the same shit happening again because when all the processes and policies are applied the result is what we already have in the church of scientology.
  27. grebe Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    Blah what a circle of crazy this place is. Kinda entertaining if you're into that sort of thing though.

    Ok, lemme see if I understand what's going on:

    Marty R allegedly told some people about his time on the Freewinds in a way that made it sound positive. He was there to fall in love with LRH and the "tech" all over again, eh?

    Aaron called bullshit on that. He said he visited the Freewinds while Marty was there "getting sec checked," which apparently is unpleasant. Aaron did not see Marty while he was there. His impression was based upon things said by an important person named "Greg" and some other staff.

    Then someone said Aaron got it wrong. No way would Greg say anything to Aaron about Marty. Rules or something.

    So the disagreement is over... whether Marty was on good terms with his superiors or not. Have I got that right?

    If Marty R hopes to return to a reorganized CoS one day, he might want to minimize any history of "problems with the tech."

    We know that Aaron wants the CoS to fall apart, just like most of us here. So he might over-emphasize management in-fighting and dysfunction, to support his argument against CoS.

    But we don't really need this anecdote about Marty R on the Freewinds. We have a mountain of other information proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that OT7, OT8, etc., are total scams. It's obvious that high level OTs are just as fucked up as all the rest of us. In fact, they seem more fucked up emotionally, thanks to all the years they wasted in addictive power-trip mind fuck nonsense.
  28. grebe Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    Just an aside: I really liked that speech Aaron gave to the Sea Org. I hope some of the people inside that building heard it or can find it on the internet.

    I worry about Aaron a little bit because of all the stories of ex-Scientologists getting hammered into silence eventually. It's weird. It's also a powerful indictment against that nasty organization.

    I wonder about Brooke Shields. She was feisty for a time.
  29. _You_ Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    The list of people silenced - in way or another - is very long.

    Some are remembered. Most are forgotten.

    They have been erased.

    In Aaron's instance, it seems more like burn out at having to go up against the "outside the Church of Scientology" Scientologists with their "WE LOVE LRH" and "WE LOVE LRH SCIENTOLOGY TECH" hypno-cult loonism.

    That, plus the concern, and frustration, that the latest St. Petersburg Times articles are unduly influenced by tha same "WE LOVE LRH" goofballs.
  30. _You_ Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    Wait we don't Love LRH ? Why is that ?
  31. thetanic Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    I want to hear his story. He says that he sees "no value" in posting it. I disagree. I think personal stories are important.
  32. OTBT Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    My silly opinion - fuck Marty, he is full of shit. May he be castrated slowly and repeatedly throughout eternity...

    Aaron has the right idea but is still semi-brainwashed from too many years "in" and is willing to believe all sorts of tin foil about happy fun cult and DM.

    I REALLY LIKE AARON!!! 11 !! (really, I do <3)

    But he still hasn't learned to differentiate between old freezone paranoid tin foil crap and actual real life horrendous abuses of staff, public and Sea Org by Source (LRH, may he slowly rot in hell, rotating slowly on a spit over eternal BBQ charcoal).
  33. _You_ Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    Aaron appears to have taken all his YouTube videos down.
  34. Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    I suspect he's having a hissy fit because someone dared to disagree with him. He also kissed goodbye to posting on ESMB as well.
  35. _You_ Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    He is too emotional. Nothing wrong with this, but when making a stand against CoS, being calm, patient, and resolute his what helps keep it together in the long run. A good trick is to accept CoS won't fall anytime soon (bonus if it does!), and that merely helping make good, solid information accessible to public re. Scientology is what gnaw at the foundation. Eventually, something will give in.
  36. Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHnO7NdnFZU&feature=channel"]YouTube- Does Scientology Blackmail It's Celebrities[/ame]

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSgcox_r1Gw&feature=channel"]YouTube- Part Two: Does Scientology Blackmail it's Celebrities[/ame]

    YouTube - AaronSaxtonSpeaks's Channel
  37. DeathHamster Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    Two people who went through years being processed in a mind fuck factory have strongly divergent views, interpretations of events, seem to have weak mental immune systems for rejecting other moon-battery that drifts by, emotional quirks like decades of buried anger, and are going to take years on a long hard road to recovery.

    I'm shocked!

    (That said, I like Aaron better, and not just because he has a critical viewpoint towards Scientology. Marty still seems frozen in his attitudes towards "enemies of Scientology", people who left before he did, the tech, KSW and Hubbard.)
  38. _You_ Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    I don't think that it is reasonable for Aaron to address the media and expect them to avoid stories about former Scientologist celebrities. But if there is blackmail material against celebrities that is keeping them in the cult I don't see anything wrong taking that information to the media to take away the leverage the cult has on "celebrity X", at least not "more wrong" than speaking to the media about a non scientologist.

    There is a good chance that the cult is bluffing about the information to begin with, Mimi Rogers, and Nichole Kidman have left the cult with out much trouble, even if that is just because they can confirm rumors about TC.
  39. grebe Member

    Re: Aaron calls out Marty Rathbun on his lying....

    I go farther than merely liking Aaron. I suspect he's in some danger. Plus he's forging a path without a guide. Plus he's trying to keep his wits and his emotions under control, while confronting a monster that has robbed him of his youth, of all he might have been. Plus he's having to face the monster within himself. Who is there beside him to believe in him?

    I would hand Aaron a halo --meaning, an assumption that whatever his mistakes, he's well intentioned and basically honest, and deserving of support and some protection from nitpicking.
  40. _You_ Member

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