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according to tehran bureau 9th of july looks to be eventful

Discussion in 'News And Current Events' started by Unregistered, Jul 6, 2009.

  1. Eye of the Storm: 18th Tir – Tehran Bureau

  2. Stacy Member

    The only thing I wondered about that is if the city will be "closed" still.
  3. FreedomAgent Member

    I believe there will be a "back-door" compromise made by than, neither side wants to take big risks at this point.

    If the protest go forward it will either be a blood feast or the regime might decide to empty the streets from security personal and make it a non-event

    There are reports that the government has installed more security cameras around Tehran (maybe other cities as well), they might just pull back all troops and hit the record button
  4. It really doesnt matter.

    Do you really think the upper and upper-middle class protesters, mostly from North Tehran and rich neighborhoods in big cities are representative of all of Iran?

    Its like when the Kerry supporters were dumbfounded that the rest of the country didn;t vote like them.

    Snotty elites are the same the world over.

    Most of the lower-middle class, working poor, and poor are behind Ahmedinejad. You know the classes that actually do the work, and thus carry-out strikes.
  5. Visionary Member

    This tired old bit of propaganda has been debunked time and again through all the reports and videos of the last few weeks. All types of people have been protesting throughout all of Iran. Not to mention that even those not protesting have been beaten and cracked down on, so this is not just a false argument but pointless as well.
  6. Really? Can you point me to any videos from South Tehran? From any of the poor neighborhoods in any of the other big cities?

    If you look at the voting breakdown, its pretty amazing how the turnouts of protests strongly coincide with the same areas that voted for Mousavi, but no protests from places that voted Ahmedinejad.
  7. Stacy Member

    Hmmmm....not sure what in my post has to do with what you just said.

    All I said is I wonder if the city will still be "closed"....maybe I'm missing something here.
  8. Sorry, I was referring to the effectiveness of the strike.

    The bazaari class is surely behind Mousavi, but they are also the least likely to want to shutter their businesses.

    Students and the elite largely cannot wage effective strikes.

    However, if the goal is to protest, the FreedomAgent makes the right points.
  9. FreedomAgent Member

    I am sure there are this many rich or well-off people in kermanshah

  10. Choice

    In many countries there are the poor, the working poor, middle class, wealthy, and a bunch in between. But there is freedom and choice. One can choose their own destiny with hard work and or schooling. The way I see it most people want choice. I have family in Iran and know people in and from Iran. They want the choice, and I will stand beside them in their choice. Freedom is a long hard road, but well worth it! ~ Let Green Freedom Ring ~
  11. Visionary Member

    I'm no expert on Iranian geography. And I don't recall all of the places that I've seen videos from, but they've been some from all over the country.

    Frankly, I'm not sure I should even bother arguing with you...because it's highly likely that you're either a troll or working for the government, so anything I say will be pointless.

    That said, here is one video from southern Iran.

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9D0X-cPu-o]YouTube - 2009 Iranian Revolution - Uprising in South Tehran june 22 ?[/ame]
  12. FreedomAgent Member

    I have many friends and family in Tehran and Tabriz and honestly it is not the well-off, upper middle class or even the middle-class that is protesting most of the protestors are middle-class to lower middle-class students and families

    The poor in Iran have never cared to protest, the concept has always been that we are poor and will remain poor regardless of regime
  13. Stacy Member

    I'm confused by the "poor won't protest" idea. Maybe things are different in different places.

    Seems to me to poor would protest much quicker than the rich. Why would the rich want things to change if things are going "good" for them?

    Of course it could be that in the US people don't have to worry about jail and/or death if they protest.
  14. Are you citing a stolen election for your argument in favor of a stolen election?

    Get out.
  15. Its precisely such statements about the poor that have left them alienated within Iran.

    Despite some of the idiotic ways that Ahmedinejad as managed some things, he is the first official since the revolution to actually talk about and try to do something for the poor.

    I guess our experiences and contacts tell us different things about Iran. Thats fine as well.
  16. FreedomAgent Member


    The poor in Iran are some of the most modest people you will ever meet, they are content with what they have (may be the reason why they support the current regime, but they would easily support any regime as long as there are handouts and empty promises)

    The farmers will protest from time to time for water rights or against over development but not too much into national politics. (There are a lot of local politics that effect their every day lives)

    Also a lot of the rural towns have very low populations where if a person wanted to protest he/she will be easily identified

    Other facts why you would not see actual video's of poor people protesting is that most these people do not have access to any video technology to actually report on the event, most these towns might have one working phone-line within the 10-20 mile radius
  17. While I used it as an analogy, I admit it is not a truly perfect fit.

    The lines between conservative and liberal are not the same in Iran as the US.

    In Iran, Principalist Conservatives are socially conservative, but favor a welfare state economy. (This is why Ahmedinejad has gotten so much flack for not privatizing, and investing in state projects, thus causing inflation).

    The Reformers favor more social liberalism, but also favor liberalization of the economy through privatization (which is good for rich folks, but bad takes away the support networks for poor people).

    Then there are the pragmatic Conservatives like Rafsanjani, who combine both of the bad traits of all parties. Socially conservative and economically liberalization. Him, and his cronies, are also the most corrupt with Rafsanjani being probably the richest man in Iran. He has thrown his weight behind Mousavi for this election largely due to Ahmedinejad's policies cuting into his interests, and of course the threats of cracking down on corruption that Ahmedinejad made during the debates.

    The reason the "citing a stolen election for your argument in favor of a stolen election" doesn't make sense is that the social base for Ahmedinejad-type policies is much larger than Mousavi-Khatami-Rafsanjani's social base.

    All that said, at this point the protest are not even really about the election. The represent a real anger and need for social freedoms. But we must remember that it represent the interests of a limited class of Iranians.
  18. Funny, because the lower-middle class are the ones taking up arms to kill the Iranian regime. Don't think we don't know about the Basiji bases that have come under gun fire in places like Balochistan. You assholes are clinging onto power by the skin of your teeth.
  19. Stacy Member

    FreedomAgent,

    I can undertand the part about them being identified. I also would have thought maybe things did NOT affect their day to day life.

    Interesting.
  20. You are right in that Ethnic discontent, especially among the Balouch and to slightly lesser extent Kurd, is real regardless of class. But that discontent was there before the election, and would have been there even after the election regardless of who won.
  21. FreedomAgent Member

    Unfortunate but these specific classes of my fellow Iranians have been living the same life style for hundreds of years under different regimes. (Farmers have been farmers for 10s of generations, shoe-repair store has been in the family for 10s of generations, same with the fisherman or even the local doctor

    These are the places where life turns at a very slow but sweet pace, the people are warm and hospitable, change comes at even a slower pace, most of these people are very religious and have been wearing the hijab for 100s of years, regime does not rule their life relay (at least in their eyes)
  22. They share the same grievances the rest of the lower class shares, and now the rest of the lower class is joining them. The ones that aren't getting paid to join the basiji, that is.

    You see plenty of videos of protests in Tehran, but there have been protests in many, many cities. Those ones aren't video taped, and pictures aren't taken, because the people there don't have the same kind of technology the people in Tehran do. But some still leak out, and the people fill the streets. Any claim that this is just the rich kids of Tehran is as false as it can get.

    And as to Baluchistan, there is a video somewhere in this message board of them attacking a basiji station very recently. I'll try to find it and repost it in this thread.
  23. Stacy Member

    That's kinda how I thought it probably was. Many of our areas that are still like that are in a bubble and they kinda want to stay that way. They like the small, cut off feeling.
  24. With all due respect FA, that something that the sheheristan people say.

    Whatever criticisms people may have of Iran, it has done a significant amount for the rural areas compared other similarly situated countries.

    I would recommend people read this article to understand the progress made by Iran

    Middle East Report 250: Why the Islamic Republic Has Survived by Ervand Abrahamian

    &

  25. Here is the video.

  26. FreedomAgent Member

    OK I'm sold the wonderful news agency Al Jazeera reporting from Iran talking to 3 people is good enough for me.

    Have you noticed that everyone on official news cameras specially ones from the middle east are always for the bloodthirsty regimes that govern them

    I suggest tracking down the same families and having private talks with them (off-camera)
  27. Stacy Member

    Gotta agree with FreedomAgent. From things I have seen with Al Jazeera over the last SEVERAL years, you gotta take what they say with a grain of salt.
  28. Al Jazeera hardly has a pro-Iran disposition.

    But sure, such on-camera interviews may not be fully representative of how people feel.

    But the comments are backed up by numbers.

    Professor Abrahamian, who is not a pro-regime academic by any stretch, does a good job of compiling a lot of numbers in one place.

    Here is a good study on rural women's education and employment (PDF): https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/esfahani/www/IndexFiles/Nimble Fingers No Longer.pdf

    Community health clinics: Mojgan Tavassoli, "Iranian Health Houses Open the Door to Primary Care"

    Abrahamian again on education: Middle East Report 250: Why the Islamic Republic Has Survived by Ervand Abrahamian

    But in the eyes of priviledged within Iran, these things are not recognized and not important. They already had these things, of were in the first waves of beneficiaries, and now look to expansion of their social freedoms (and well as a real issue of employment opportunities).
  29. FreedomAgent Member

    This is what I'm talking about when I say these people will vote for anyone as long as there are false promises and empty lies

    These are people who want drinking water and their great leader is talking about 40 million homeless in the United States, talking about Iraq and Palestine, talking about Nuclear power while people are asking for clean drinking water

  30. Iran is known for having minders standing there off camera when people are being interviewed, so I don't take any interviews like this that any news agency does seriously.
  31. Supporters of Kerrys presidential bid were disappointed when Howard Dean lost the primary election. Get yer opinions strait.

    Don't forget all the imam clerics who support the protests and continue to speak out against the evil leaders of their beloved republic. The clerics will oust the baddies at any cost to save Islam, especially in light of the leaderships threats levelled against Israel, America, and the UK. The military if they wish to engage in dialogue with the US+Russia may have the chance to do so, if they support the voice and the people of Iran!

    Hear.

  32. What is this about the letter sent to the Bahai by the Iranian government, threatening them? Once a whipping boy, always a whipping boy?

    When people like the Bahia and Zorastorians can worship freely, with no government interference at all, Iran will be what it should be. Until then, the nation will always be on the edge.

    Picking on the Bahai! that is like picking on nuns or Buddhist monks!
  33. http://www.iranpresswatch.org/post/4205
  34. Sure, such on-camera interviews may not be fully representative of how people feel.

    But the comments are backed up by numbers.

    Professor Abrahamian, who is not a pro-regime academic by any stretch, does a good job of compiling a lot of numbers in one place.

    Here is a good study on rural women's education and employment (PDF): https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/esfahani/w...o Longer.pdf

    Community health clinics: Mojgan Tavassoli, "Iranian Health Houses Open the Door to Primary Care"

    Abrahamian again on education: Middle East Report 250: Why the Islamic Republic Has Survived by Ervand Abrahamian

    But in the eyes of priviledged within Iran, these things are not recognized and not important. They already had these things, of were in the first waves of beneficiaries, and now look to expansion of their social freedoms (and well as a real issue of employment opportunities).
  35. Who cares about the candidates. The issue was about "red states" and "blue states", with the idiots in the blue states being unable to fathom how these other idiots could vote for Bush. Subsequently, many of these Blue state idiots threatened to migrate to Canada.

    It reflects a split in society (in both Iran and US) with different viewpoints, interests, concerns, with condescension from one group, and revulsion from the other.
  36. I hardly see the similarities between the situation in Iran and in America. Here, the press is free, in Iran it is not. Here they do not beat you, shut down the internet, arrest you and hang you in silence, or torture everyone they think you have talked to. Here we are armed, and can fight back if our government gets out of control. Here, we can say what is on our mind. Here, we can walk the streets without fear of being hassled or arrested for not having our bangs covered.

    There is a huge difference. Liberals here may be snobby and condescending, and elitist, but their loss does not mean a fascist dictatorship will remain in power (no matter what they say or what hyperbole they use). Their win does not mean everyone looses their ability to speak. And if we ever do loose our ability to speak, we will be fighting back just like the Iranians are. And we will be fully justified in doing so. Just like the Iranians are justified right now.

    This isn't about rich versus poor. It is about freedom.

    Any day now, ahamadinijad is going to wake up to troops knocking on his door, arresting him and putting him on trail for war crimes. Right next to all the goons he has imported into the country to do his dirty work for him.
  37. How many of the previous Iranian leaders or candidates spent time to gout into villages like this? Talk to them in open air settings?

    While the idiot goes on rambles all the time, he has made progress in such infrastructural development projects. Isn't this the reason he is criticized for his economic policies? For too much government spending, which leads to inflation? But the very presence of a President in a community like this has impact back home. One may not agree with his policies, but social and economic populist policies always have support from the poor.
  38. The ground realities in Iran indicate otherwise.

    The interests of those who want schools, roads, and water supply in their villages and towns, are very different than those who who want more social freedoms including (but not limited to) "having our bangs covered".

    But thank you for telling us about ourselves.

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