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An eye opener if anything plus various other threads merged for lulz

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by idealisticguy, Apr 27, 2012.

  1. Anonymous Member

    this
    or this

    I shall have to pore over it some more.
    • Like Like x 1

  2. Why bra do you gotta be so condescending? Thought this was economics not an english lesson bra. Ya he's obviously a little dense, but really bra.

    Money = weed that my solution haha
  3. Anonymous Member

    Barter system, since the paper on which fiat money is printed is worth more than the actual currency.

    inb4 zOMG111 oursystem2big2fail
  4. adhocrat Member

    No it wasn't. Certainly, some kings have used gold, and as long as they maintained scrupulous integrity, their ecomonies did better than others. But the US used gold until 1913, no kings in sight here.

    You seem to think that money makes no sense, but it has endured for 2000 years for a reason. And having private money that cannot be debased by fiat is the only sure guarantee the people have of sound money,

    Ask yourself how it was that during the 19th century in the US prices fell by 35%, under the gold standard, while inflation has ruled during the 20th century. (Hint, the fed was created in 1913).

    It doesn't matter what we use as money as long as it cannot be debased by fiat.
  5. Anonymous Member

  6. idealisticguy Member

    I already do this bartering in my community as well. No it does not fix our problems, but I respect your opinion and I'm glad you're thinking about change as well.

    I think you could argue either way. It's confusing because on one hand we have books that say this, but on the other we know that the rulers usually had the most wealth.

    If you changed the currency to something besides what it is gold will still retain value that you can collect as a form of money as well. There just wouldn't be a monetary policy linking the gold and money together. Then there's no inflation.
  7. idealisticguy Member

    Well everyone let me ask you this. What is your solution? What is your idea of a solution? How is it going to work? Why will it work?

    The more I write the more I get worn out on how powerless everyone acts. The fact that just because I'm trying to make a change I have to deal with constant scrutiny is draining. Hearing everyone doubt something I think is basic reality is depressing. Being called a moonbat for doing this is aggravating.

    Every time I look at this forum I wonder am I just entertainment? Everyone can tell me what doesn't work and proper english, but no one really supports me verbally (I know it's selfish). So am I wasting time here or do some of you like the ideas? If you do write please. If not let's just make a different forum where you guys can post your theories and I can go try and find people who want to hear what I have to say. I want to hear you guys so I can just listen, but this is tiring.I have other places to talk about this. Where people don't act like I'm crazy for studying what's really going on. Then even crazier when I tell them.

    Lets just get those ridiculous questions out of the way.

    Yes I see a shrink. I have two doctors in my family in the psychiatry field. Two in law one with background as a chemist. I have a shrink just to check up on my mind. I am not crazy. I do have insomnia and Professional doctors who know what crazy is don't think I'm crazy. So I'd rather not stick around if I have to deal with much more nonsense. It drives me crazy because if you're aren't part of the solution you're part of the problem. Make a choice. Either hook me back in or let me go be.
  8. adhocrat Member

    Private money is the answer. Governments always debase the currency. It's in their nature.
    It doesn't matter what eventually is used, just as long as people agree to use it. So gold, silver, oil, wheat, tobacco, bitcoins, all would be out there as possibilities. But history shows that:
    In Gold We Trust.
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  9. idealisticguy Member

    Ok now I agree with you in the sense that I worry about too much power here or there especially with my idea. I also thought a lot about that and the whole thing is they (elites) currently control a lot of gold I mean that's how banks pay them. I guess a way around that would be to either pick something we all haven't gotten huge amounts of already, but no that's probably not a good idea either since we need an economy sooner rather then later. I don't know.

    The contrast with my opinion is that sure everyone gains a lot and that means the people on top get way more powerful, but I think of opportunities on a margin. I think that will make it unbalanced and good for only people with gold right now. In my opinion it's a numbers game. Right now only a billion people or so will have the opportunity to grow a business and those billion have to face up with the very few billionares that tax the shit out of them only to not be taxed themselves. I believe with my system it would give 5 or 6 billion people the opportunity to succeed. Even though they had power there's no way they could stop the growth. Sure 1% gains all this wealth right, but 99% gains a bunch of wealth and opportunity too. Here's the thing though you can't stand up to a trillion dollar company with one hundred small companies (that are taxed and charged higher interest on loans to make them weak prey) and not expect the big shark (who aren't taxed and take virtually no liability) to eat the little ones. Now if you put a billion little sharks in the tank with 30 big sharks what do you think happens? The little sharks win and make their own more moral big businesses everywhere that form even better ones and so on in an economy based on success, but not at the expense of your fellow man.


    Yod he vav he be with all of you.
  10. Anonymous Member

    Attributing this drop in prices to the gold standard or to a free marketplace is to ignore other economic factors in play in the 19th century:

    -Slavery
    -Slavery-built railroads
    -The railroads themselves
    -Industrialization
  11. Agreed.

    The past economic system took into factor slaves or virtually free labor, much less resource consumption, and of course they had very little inflation because it had just begun. I like the idea that money = labor because it makes me feel like everyone understands that they get paid for their time so it offers people the opportunity to bear the fruits of their labor.`Especially if we wiped out the debt and help neutralize the economy. Even the one world currency would at least stop all the competition with Europe let alone the rest of the world for higher valued currency. It's like states getting extra votes just because nobody lives there. (err? the electoral college). The back doors of the economy and legislator need to be closed so that the opportunities can be available to everyone and not be corrupted by big money trying to enslave the market. If a senator knew he had the means to get everything he ever wanted without having to bow down to anyone they wouldn't need to accept bribes.

    Disclaimer -

    And now my moonbat theory.

    If we had a system that provided us with what we needed to be productive we could have our own robots doing all the hard labor. Yes thats right I'm talking Utopia of oppurtunities for us to advance. You don't have to enslave anyone you can make your dreams a reality by hiring a few Japanese engineers. Just beware of Skynet, but guess what? That will never happen right now (except maybe skynet) without huge corporate loans to pay for hugely inflated parts making it virtually impossible for us to go design our own tech labs based on our own research. If Bob wants to have a dream of curing cancer let him try. If Joe wants to be an astronaut let him try. WTF PEOPLE!?! Don't you see you don't have to live in constant strain to survive just because someone told you that's the way it is. It's just a hundred years of telephone people and you'd rather believe people who were max 2 at the time that things started.

    THE ULTIMATE TRUTH


    EVERYONE IS TRYING TO SELL YOU THEIR OWN AGENDA.

    MONEY MAKES YOUR AGENDA HEARD.



    Yes you're taking advice from a 2 year old in the space time continuum and saying world this is fact. Face it. You don't know. I don't know. They don't know, but their grandparents knew and they changed the economy for a means to their own agenda, but not the people they'd never have to see. Now it's our turn to change the economy and now that we know better maybe we can change it so that the people we never see will live well and happily. We are here now. This is now. You can choose the future.
  12. CarterUSP Member

    I would try and get involved in the discussion but too many walls of text, moonbattery and nonsense. I see people yip-yapping about what things should be and could be, but ultimately won't be.
    People are corrupt. Any perfect society would soon crumble under greed, selfishness, hatred et al, even a *perfect* system wouldn't work for long.
    • Winner Winner x 2
  13. Anonymous Member

    I have yet to see any credible argument against the use of proper English grammar when trying to get one's point across on the internet.

    imma stick with a system that actually works
    kircher.gif
  14. idealisticguy Member

    You're right if we could all connect with our higher selves this would be a lot easier for everyone. Here's a piece of the puzzle.

    Translations and some of the meaning behind the words.

    http://www.andrewsadock.com/sacred-...ubconscious-mind-and-core-energetic-template/

    http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/3_al.html

    Keys to understanding and tuning into different brainwave frequencies.
    Binoural and Monotonic Subject - Brainwave Entrainment

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brainwave_entrainment

    If you want to be able to find a solution you must be able to understand the problem.
  15. Anonymous Member

    So anyone have a formula with all the bugs worked out yet? We can find holes in everything it's in our best interest to start thinking about what actually would work. Anyone have any economic computer programs that would help make this easier on people? Is there any more information that we should know or facts that represent the big picture that need to be accounted for? Let's try and include everyone in. I think it's important that anyone who comes to this forum find some piece of information that they find interesting or significant. I'd like to walk away at least knowing this isn't a bogus waste of some people's time.
  16. adhocrat Member

    all else being equal, a species money will create a sounder economy than fiat money.

    So, if it was slavery that made for a drop in the prices, that would mean that the loss of slavery is at least partly responsible for the rise in prices since then, which is clearly nonsense.

    We still have railroads and industrialization so why have the prices shot up since the loss of the gold standard?
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Anonymous Member

    I blame communist North Korea, because their Samsung phones are so damn expensive . :/
    • Funny Funny x 1
  18. adhocrat Member

    Inflation is a result of the money supply and the amount of goods. If the amount of money doubles while the amount of goods remains the same, prices will double. It has nothing to do with anything but the amount of money and goods.

    So to say that inflation was low because 'it' (whatever it refers to in that sentence) had just begun doesn't make sense. The Romans had inflation 2000 years ago, while still having slaves and no industrialization.

    We don't get paid for our time, we get paid for our production. To be paid for time worked rather than what was produced is to create a moral hazard which would make us all worse off than before.
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Anonymous Member

    So long as the stat graph remains in Normal condition, we are safe. L. Ron Hubbard's genius took into account inflation and other external factors.

    Your wog reasoning will bring you naught.

    BRB, washing radiation off walls, using water. Radiation be water-soluble, yo.
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Anonymous Member

  21. Anonymous Member

    This is giving me a headache. I did the math it's good on the original idea. If you refuse to accept change then why do you refuse to accept things the way they are? The laws of economics are based on us. They are not set in stone and written in old Hebrew. Yes some of them are good assumptions, but I could tell you the "laws" of a lot of things. What do economics doctorates do anyway? Do they just sit there knowing the economy is crashing going "hmmm seems to be a problem, so is this video game" There are those who are productive finding the reasons why and there are those choosing nothing finding the reason why not. How CAN we change not so much how were CAN NOT. I personally think you just own some gold and want it to be worth more.

    Listen there is a system we have that recognizes and helps categorize every form of currency and assign it a value. Assuming inflation will happen because it happened in Greece is actually correct I believe. It would just be much much much much much much slower. There is a system that also provides loans to new businesses. If the business owner had to maintain a proper market value on their products no more no less unless it hasn't been made yet or is original. Then inflation would also slow down even further until it took 100 years to inflate the economy one days worths of inflation now.

  22. Anonymous Member

  23. CarterUSP Member

    Really?
    WALLS OF TEXT DON'T WORK BECAUSE HARDLY ANYONE READS THEM. Regardless of the eloquence and grammatical coherence.
    Imma stick with a system that acutally works - Effective, concise communication.
  24. adhocrat Member

    It's so hard to talk to people here...

    The laws of economics are set by our nature, not by our legislatures. To say otherwise is to ignore 300 years of economic thought. Maybe you think the word 'law' here means legislative fiat. It doesn't, it indicates a time tested theory of science.

    I gave you the math and it is intuitive and accurate. Double the money supply, all else being equal, and prices will double.

    If you double the money supply and double amount of goods, prices will remain the same, all else being equal.

    If the money supply remains the same and you double the number of goods, all else being equal, then prices will fall in half.

    Grade school math is all you need for this.
    • Like Like x 1
  25. Anonymous Member

    Solution in under 100 words:

    Make me the supreme leader.

    First order of business upon taking office will be, once a day, to shoot a whiny celebrity and/or moonbat. The resulting entertainment should placate the masses sufficiently to allow them to ignore the issues until I get around to fixing them.
    • Like Like x 1
  26. idealisticguy Member


    I like where your heads at and you seem like a pretty intelligent guy among many. So let me tell you what part of the equation makes it more difficult then grade school math. It's called business.


    1st The amount of businesses producing a good effects the cost not the amount of goods.
    Fewer businesses means goods are harder to get and can be sold for more (this is a profit society).


    2nd So the money goes into businesses and the businesses produce more goods therefor dropping the cost. The plan is aspected growth for the business minded while minimizing harmful side effects and sustaining the economy. Therefor more money = cheaper goods and more money.

    3rd You're right probably none of this would make sense if you don't remember that in my plan money isn't inflatable because it's not associated with gold, but labor. The whole world would be doing it and the debt would be wiped out saving you 75% or more on goods and taxes. At first money could inflate, but as soon as everyone who wants to run a business or do an interesting job can and does. The number of businesses and goods will skyrocket causing the cost of $160 jeans that cost $2 to drop to more like 50 or 60. Those boys and girls in china working at the sweat mill making them for you might be able to afford college and eat.

    4th The problem now is population to supply. Make the population more productive and they will support themselves. Leave 13 families to rule the world and you're stuck with 13 families tools, resources, and agenda. Let 6.5 billion people succeed and rule the world and you have 6.5 billion people's tools and resources only they're actually motivated and not droning through life therefor more productive and happy.

    5th You need to empty your cup of all you've learned and stop thinking about this as just an economics problem in order to solve the economics problem. This is psychology, math, intuition, creative thinking, politics, religion, reprogramming, law, and economics. I think I missed something.
  27. BLiP Member

    Eat the rich.
  28. Anonymous Member

    moar of her and less faggotry plox
    • Like Like x 1
  29. adhocrat Member

    Point four I like. I want 7B individuals making their individual decisions, not 200 leaders and 6.9999999B sheeple.

    agree you missed something, Namely, all your psychology, intuition and the rest is meaningless if you have a basic fact wrong, Your basic wrong fact is that labor ≠ money, as I've already explained. You ignored that objection, so until you address it, the rest makes no sense.

    And if you want to lecture me, at least learn to use the proper words and learn to spell them, then I might read what you said. But as it is, your language is so convoluted it's hard to make sense of it.

    and you are extremely ignorant of economics. Extremely ignorant. I suggest you go back, read Economic In One Lesson, by Henry Hazlitt, and watch plenty of PraxGirl as the sovereign remedy for what ails ya.
    • Like Like x 1
  30. Anonymous Member

    Let Herro deal with this. He'll know what to do.
    • Like Like x 2
  31. Anonymous Member

    100 words:

    The Supreme Ruler solved the economy by mass implanting.

    He caused people to be brought to Teegeeack and put an H-Bomb on the principal volcanoes and then the Pacific area ones were taken in boxes to Hawaii and the Atlantic Area ones to Las Palmas and there "packaged." He used renegades. Various misleading data by means of circuits etc. was placed in the implants.
    When through with his crime Loyal Officers captured him after 6 years of battle and put him in an electronic
    mountain trap where he still is.

    "They" are gone.
    The place has since been a desert.
    • Like Like x 1
  32. Jumping in, only having half-read this thread, i ask:
    Isn't inflation unavoidable as long as there exists market speculation and a profit for non-productive middle men?

    Since demand fluctuates rapidly all the time and probably can never be quantified exactly, "upcharge," or the profit margin or whatever you call it can never realistically account exactly for this demand.

    Price is based on demand, but I would think any successful business will err on the higher side when determining price while considering this demand. They can rationalize it by advertising (creating artificial demand) or citing lack of resources (creating artificial supply shortage) but I can't see the sizzle matching the steak, ever in a capitalist, consumerist society.

    Hence, true marketplace price would always be inflated, when comparing it to the actual "cost," as long as there is profit generation, with a margin that is influenced by market swings, etc. If this is true across all sectors, why would we expect anything but inflation?

    Wouldn't this happen regardless of whether we use money or fiat currency?

    I got a D in macroeconomics my freshman year in college, so i may be way off, or missing something.
  33. adhocrat Member

    IS THERE AN ECONOMIST IN THE HOUSE?

    I have said where inflation comes from. Rather than dredging up ancient thinking that;s been thoroughly debunked, why not take a scientific approach to the problem? Or at least look what the basic schools of thought in economics have to say on the subject,
    Keynes
    Monetarist
    Austrian

    Those will give you a start to look into what the great economic thinkers have said about inflation.

    But explain one fact:
    In the US in the 1800s, a basket of goods fell by 35% from 1820 to 1910.
    A basket of goods since the Fed has risen by several orders of magnitude since then.
    If it were a function of speculation, explain why the rampant speculation of the 1800s didn't cause inflation.

    Inflation is only and always when the money supply increases faster then the amount of goods available.

    The classic definition is too much money chasing too few goods.

    You can have inflation with a gold standard only if the increase in the gold supply outpaces the increase in productivity.
    • Like Like x 1
  34. Isn't there the idea of "cost-push" inflation?

    Higher costs of productions (increased wages, advertising budgets, management salaries, corporate taxes, etc) leads to a lower, more costly supply. Combine this with steady demand (or more likely increased demand due to mass marketing, and an ever-increasing market anyway) and prices have to up and purchasing power goes down.

    Maybe during the 1800's cheap labor, minimal advertising, no need for middle management, distribution, or an army of lawyers to hire/build; helped keep things in check.

    Not saying that the Fed is blameless by any means, but doesnt it push and pull? or so to speak?
  35. idealisticguy Member

    I have explained money = labor and it does not have to be labor just infinite. Look you obviously think im ignorant when I am trying to address certain points. This also means you've already written me off mentally making this pointless. You're not hearing the whole picture, but I'm just going to agree to disagree with you because this is a matter of perception that we dont both share and honestly i appreciate your thoughts and emotions. I just don't like upsetting them or being upset by them when we get heated. This is where we hit the debt wall. The part nobody can pass through and I'm worn out on my thread. People in person understand my idea, but I'm obviously not getting anywhere here and so you've heard my stuff . Now I'm just going to listen. I'll go debate with more economists on different forums who can at least wrap their head around it. Right now we're just wasting time. I'm honestly not trying to insult you dude this is just how I am.


  36. Anonymous Member

  37. Great now there's inflation in my pants
  38. Anonymous Member

  39. idealisticguy Member

    Fyi. Guys. Last thing. I also stated earlier that one of the first things you'd need to do is remove the debt the reduce the price of products on a global scale. This is no longer the 60's. I have gone through my business classes owned businesses and worked plenty of 60 hour weeks staring at people's credit trying to assign loans. I know what people actually make not what they tell you. Listen when I say this. There is a huge difference between experience and book knowledge. I only have less then 15k in debt right now.
    From a management perspective. There are seminars, hundreds of them based on the platforms for success based on jp Morgan and Rothchields and such. This so called brilliant system of ours is bs guys face it. Upper management goes to them and learns its ok to pay people less and fire for quaterly profit. This happens in every field of sales and guess what? If you don't sell something you don't make money. So getting rid of your guys is counter productive if you want to sell more product. They don't have to worry about burning anybody because they're so big they can never be touched. This system is not what you think it is. You will realize this when you go to purchase a business not when you work for anyone, but only if you find out what's real and what's just in a book. Everything you think you know about economics plays out differently in the real world. Jp Morgan and Rothchields great grandparents may have been super geniuses, but what do 20th generation uber rich trust fund kids know about the economy besides how much a buggatti costs and what hotel to buy today isn't much. This is where you learned the economy from. Their business model for success which is failing right now. The laws of economics are theory not fact and they represent an older system based on people who observe the economy rather then be part of it. Just because you or I read it in a book does not make it fact. The only thing we can take as real is our actual experiences.

    Think about what you're saying.
    • Agree Agree x 1

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