An eye opener if anything plus various other threads merged for lulz

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by idealisticguy, Apr 27, 2012.

  1. Anonymous Member

    No, just stop the wars. Saves billions. Also, lives. My 21 year old son doesn't need to fight in any of them.
  2. Anonymous Member

    single payer socialized health care?
  3. Like I said, stopping the wars is an excellent start, but fixing all that's wrong will require far more coin. Legalize weed, tax the hell out of it, legalize other drugs, and put that money into drug treatment. We've had over 40 years of modern prohibition. Much like alcohol prohibition, it has been a failure that has caused nothing but misery and death. $1 trillion, and for that, we have both the highest number and highest percentage of prisoners in the world, violent gangs who torture and take lives by the thousands, and countless lives ruined.
  4. Yes. People should not have to choose between health care and food. That's obscene.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Anonymous Member

    Couldn't agree more.
    Sad state of affairs here.
  6. Anonymous Member

    greta, how many people do you suppose paid those rates?

    Also, if we get those 1964 tax rates, can we also go back to the same number of government employees as in 1964?

    Oh, and you choose the year LBJ and Congress lowered the marginal tax rates from 90 to 70%. How much of a difference do you suppose that would make to the overall plan?
  7. Let's look at pot. According to, 80.5% of all illicit drug users use marijuana. 64.8% of all illicit drug users use ONLY pot. 19.5% used only drugs other than pot, and 16.2% used pot and other drugs. In real numbers, that's roughly 13.5 million Americans every year who use pot monthly or more frequently. Now, take that money out of the hands of smugglers and organized crime, and put it into local, regulated, safe stores. That's one hell of a pinch for those who are destroying our neighborhoods.
  8. In 1964, the US population was roughly 192 million. I'd really prefer the tax rates from 1960, but we have to start somewhere. Today, it's roughly 313 million, so increase the number of government employees by 63% to reflect the higher population. Also, increase the minimum wage by about $3/hour to adjust for inflation from its original level, and provide a strong disincentive for the hoarding of wealth. Reinstate and improve worker protection laws, and again, single payer health care, poverty-fighting programs, and encourage collective bargaining. If you want a real job creator, look at your neighbor who's struggling to make ends meet. Some asshole with a car elevator isn't creating anything except jobs and dead workers overseas.
  9. Anonymous Member

    You didn't answer my question. How many people paid a 90% marginal rate? Would you impose it with no deductions at all? Would that be politically feasible, considering that Congress profits nicely from the current tax code (I read recently it's around 30,000 pages long).
  10. Anonymous Member

    Let's run with your numbers. Let's assume that all those 13.5M smokers smoke 14 grams a month, which means 6.75M ounces a month. Let's assume the government taxes that at $300 per ounce. That means they receive $2B a month, or $24B a year. The deficit is currently running around $1T. So $1T/$24B and we get, carry the two, so this pays for about 2.4% of the deficit for the year.

    Hmm, most people, when their outlays and income are out of whack, they stop spending so much. So why not talk about major spending cuts. In 1946, when all the economist were worried about what would happen when all those service men came back from WWII, they said the government needed to do something. Instead of raising spending, they cut spending by 60%, the economy came roaring back and we saw a major boom.

    Dare I say the A word, or would it make Greta see red?
  11. Probably about a percent or two of the population, if that.
  12. And you're ignoring the years of pent-up demand caused by rationing in WWII. Basic Keynes: When the economy is robust, you work to stem inflation, because that is what reduces suffering and enhances economic stability. When the economy is in the crapper like it is now, you focus on stimulus because that is what reduces suffering and enhances economic stability. Adjusted for inflation, we've been cutting government spending for 30 years straight. It hasn't worked. It has only made things worse.
  13. Anonymous Member

    And you are ignoring the price and wage controls (Which were also the genesis of the current health care crisis) that were ended with the end of WWII. It was that and the reduced government spending that allowed that 'pent up demand' to express itself. if those controls had remained, the 'pent up demand' would have remained pent up.

    That 'Keynes' solution worked so well in the 70s that they brought it back for an encore. Only problem is, the economy is still in the crapper, no matter how you spin it, and they don't have many tools left in their box at this point. Let's see what happens with bond prices. If they go up, look out.
  14. Anonymous Member

    And you are both ignoring the fact that it's a world economy now! It's not just about what your own country does anymore, look at the bigger picture guys!
  15. idealisticguy Member

    We are the market. What we decide to accept for trade = currency. Right now our currency is fiat money that stands for nothing. Average person makes roughly 1 1/2 million with no education and 2 1/2 with one in a lifetime. Banks loan out that kind of money daily then when they're running low they get more minted paper from the fed and inflate the economy. Every day the $ = less. Every day pay remains stagnant. Every day billions of people wake up and put on pants and look at themselves in the mirror and say I have to go to work at this shit job just to make it a while longer. Just to pay the bills. Just to feed the family. Just to get the new Iphone. Billions of people make the DECISIONS to let things be the way they are every day. A system has been put in place so that everyone accepts it as the way it is, but it's, however we make it. You choose to ignore the bigger picture and the whole world is paying for it. A few people found a way to cheat the system and
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  16. idealisticguy Member

    Stupid phone. . . Blah blah blah. Wake up. We make our own rules. We all made our own rule to follow the system no matter how bad it is. It is dumb. Just plain dumb that a billion people are going to have to starve just to get people ti make up their minds and start making better choices. Its not about taxes and spending cuts it's about choosing to live how you want. You'll never make a real difference until you realize how to unite and put aside differences and work together. Think outside the box.
  17. Anonymous Member

    Idealistic teen
  18. idealisticguy Member

    Im 30. Quit hating.
  19. idealisticguy Member

    This is our world start acting like adults and take responsiblity. Right now. Stop buying the dream and start selling it.
  20. Anonymous Member

    Selling it for more paper money that will be worthless like you said?
  21. Anonymous Member

    Supply ad Demand retard. If no one is buying, then what's the use of selling?
  22. Anonymous Member

    Well you should lurk moar about world economies
  23. idealisticguy Member

    The dream is not something you buy it represents the drive to obtain material possessions. The dream is what you want your life to be and the possessions we buy to enjoy and be comfortable. You are sold the media dream daily. This dream requires work. People don't buy objects they buy the dream of owning these objects. By selling the dream of a better system that provides for everyone and working people can live comfortably is a better dream. What's the point of being the only achiever? To not be able to share comfort with everyone. My belief is go big or gohome. When you start selling a better dream you bring people to understand they can obtain their dreams through a better system. Assuming the world is just going to lazy if we make it easier is wrong. People work harder when they love what they do and have what they want. My point is we can have the dream of now that we accept or we can have the dream we create. A place with modern transparency. A system that rewards hard work without creating massive debt through inflation. Its a matter of choice. There's tons of ways to do this. If we had the ability to start our own research centers and medical cures. If we had a system that supports such things instead of governance through money. I can give examples but hopefully you understand what I mean. Nobody wants things the way they are. Its not up to the governments to decide its up to us to step forward for change. We can all live in a better system if we agree on change. Believe me no matter how hard a few men try and keep things the same there are billions of us who can make our own decisions. The problem is we aren't buying our dream. Were buying someone elsewhere. To sell the dream is to provide the. fact that we all have power to choose and make a difference. We are not stuck with this system. We can decide to change it in a way where nobody loses except the ones who cheat the game and take away our dreams. Our dream is so much bigger but the world lacks faith in their own ability to change right now. If you give up the power to make your own decisions then someone else will make them for you at your expense. If you choose to make the change and unite on a common goal by selling a better dream you will not only fix the economy but bring about a whole new age.
  24. Anonymous Member

    225px-Ducreuxyawn.jpg yawn.jpg yawn.jpg.gif Yawn-1.jpg Yawn_Jaime.jpg
  25. Look at what austerity, which is what you propose, is doing to Europe. At a time when they need stimulus, when their governments need to inject more money into the economy, they're instead focusing on cutting the debt. In Greece, that means they no longer have money for cancer treatments or even gloves and other necessities for hospitals. Austerity is murdering Greeks. The stimulus worked to prevent a second Great Depression. The only flaw was that it was too small. It's not like there isn't work that needs to be done. Look at our roads, our potable water distribution, our bridges, and our electrical grid that's approaching Third World levels of instability. TVA, the Hoover Dam, and other major aspects of our infrastructure were a direct result of government investment in infrastructure. The Interstate system? That's government investment in infrastructure. The genesis of our current health care crisis is our decision to treat it as a commodity instead of a human right. You can go to the store to purchase cereal or buy replacements for your shoes when they wear out. You can't buy a whole new body. Health care spending is 15.2% of our GDP, and we have tens of millions uninsured and more underinsured. How does France have the best health care in the world and spend only 11.2% of their GDP? 76.9% of their health care is publicly funded, and the for-profit health care you see here? You don't see it there. I could start on their education also being largely publicly funded, but you get my point.
  26. Anonymous Member
    the budget for the US was
    In 1945 $92B.
    In 1946 $55B
    In 1947 $35B
    In 1948 $30B

    We had this discussion in 1945-6. All the mainstream economists said that austerity would ruin us, Instead, it led to one of the biggest economic expansions in history. We are supposed to learn from history, not ignore it.

    IOW, austerity is cutting spending by two thirds.
    That is austerity, not the BS I hear about in the news today. A reduction of the growth rate from 3% to 1% is not austerity is is spendthrift idiocy.

    Anyone who thinks the government is immune to the laws of economics is in for a big surprise.

    As for the rest of your post, it is simply economic fallacies. You should read more economics than just Keynes. He was a great court magician, very smart man, but it's all illusion and smoke and mirrors.

    I'll address one point
    Which is a condemnation of government interference in the market since it was FDR policies that led to this outcome.

    In WWII FDR instituted wage and price controls. So that meant a boss couldn't give his people a raise (imagine, the government blocking raises)
    So in response the boss offered health insurance,
    THis meant that there became a direct correlation between work and your health care. All of the problems of the US health care system can be traced to those wage and price controls.

    But as I said, you actually have to have read history to have learned these things.
  27. Anonymous Member

    FIFY based on all your posts.
  28. Anonymous Member

    FYI, Greece fucked themselves, they borrowed and borrowed then cooked their books to look good so they could enter the European union then borrowed a whole fuckton more, why? Because their national sport is tax avoidance! Greeks don't grasp the fact that if you expect someone else to pay for everything sooner or later it will catch up with you. Greece is bankrupt in all but title, and it will probably be the card that takes the whole stack down. Greece? Fuck em!
  29. Kill yourself before your policies kill more people. You talk about ignoring history? How about ignoring the years leading up to the Great Depression? We had massive bank deregulation, more money going to the richest, and a steady decline in income tax rates. You had increased consolidation of industries, union busting, and wage stagnation. Eventually, the pent up instability became apparent, and the bubble burst. Sound familiar? Different economic problems require different solutions. In the time period you cited, the concern was that inflation would get worse. Since there was a glut of jobs, reducing the public sector did not hurt anything. Now, we have severe unemployment that was ameliorated, but not cured, by stimulus. Put another way, when someone is overweight, a diet might not hurt, but when they're starving, denying them food is cruel, inhumane, and wrong. Inflation is the first scenario. What we see today is the second.
  30. Frankly, the Euro is one of the dumbest fucking ideas ever. If they were on the drachma, they could have set policies that would have held them in better stead without begging for a sign of humanity from that worthless cunt Angela Merkel. As they were lent money, it was on increasingly insane terms that guaranteed it could not be paid back. The only difference between Angela Merkel and Adolf Hitler is that she used the banks to kill people, not soldiers. I hope she rots in hell.
  31. Anonymous Member

    My, you are a nice person, Such kind and thoughtful response.:p

    The law for the FED came into being in 1913. That was not 'massive bank deregulation', it was MASSIVE regulation. The income tax passed in 1913, that also was massive regulation (and direct election of senators also started, so that was a trifecta year for the worst in progressive politics)
    At least get the facts straight.

    AS for your attitude, just shows what a sad lot you progressives are, all this yelling at people for not toeing the company line.

    And as an added bonus, you totally ignored what i actually said in favor of your pet peeves.IOW, you don't actually have an explanation for why cutting the budget by two-thirds helped to fuel the great post war boom.

    No fucking clue at all
  32. Anonymous Member

    You really are quite the ass, aren't you?
  33. Anonymous Member

    Yes the euro is a nonsense but even if Greece still had the drachma it wouldn't have helped them! They caused all their own problems, the people point blank refused to pay any taxes, it was their right not to pay but still demanded everything from their government. So the only way the gov could keep everyone happy was to borrow, and borrow and borrow till the whole house of cards gave way.
  34. idealisticguy Member

    Yes keep jerking off your internet egos debating a topic you will do nothing outside of this to help. Keep sitting around with thumb in bum trolling each other in your miserable egotistic antisocial hipster ways. Keep pretending you know better then anyone else. Fact is your dumb. You locked yourself in a mental cage and are debating fringe concepts that are so boring that id rather stare at the sun all day then listen to you troll everyone and yourselves that doesn't like your idea most. Eventually you guys will grow up and realize a book is written by somebody and a chair is meant to be sat on and all arguing is pointless when your small brains can't grasp the bigger picture. Enjoy butchering my thread with nonsense and who's got the biggest e-dick. See you again in 6 months.
  35. Anonymous Member

    Good fuck off and run away. We need the peace and quiet.
  36. idealisticguy Member

    There's a difference between running and understanding a waste of time. Tell me please how you are going to unite the masses with a bunch of ideas that are hard to understand and completely unappealing. The definition of insanity is to do the same thing twice expecting different results. Like I was saying earlier if you can't sell the dream to everyone then you can't make the differences you'd need to actually make a political difference. Please inform me of how your going to convince the world that these are good ideas. The fact remains that billions of people override the decision makers who botched this to begin without. The system is flawed and doesn't exist work. Change the monetary policy. Make corporations and people accountable for their actions. Protect the bottom of the pyramid as it is your foundation. Reset debt so the economy can flourish and new policy has a chance. Stop assuming that the people who put us here have any power over the decision of the masses. Stop thinking about things the way they are and start thinking about how you want them to be. People live for their dreams they don't live for political banter and nonsense that only puts band aids on bullet wounds. The longer you sit and debate things that people don't understand and don't want the further you get from creating a result. Acts like Nesara already ha e laid foundation for my ideas. Face it. How are you going to change anything by repeating the past in the present with different variables. I run from nothing, but I know when my time can be spent on things that are actually productive and can benefit the masses. I think its all most of you who run from ideas that are outside the box. The only thing that will happen if you pursue small reforms and hard to sell ideas is wasted time. Unless you can create a unified ideology that the majority can benefit from in the short and long term and understand you are wasting time. This isn about China not liking it or someone else disagreeing. The only thing that will be lost with these plans is the power of those that only wish to benefit themselves. The rest of the world can flourish from this and eventually those that think its a bad idea will see the obvious benefits. Its simply fear of change. Stop thinking in the box. Its a prison that we built for ourselves and we are to arrogant to accept it for what it is. Break down the walls and have your freedom or continue living in a world where a few flourish and the masses suffer for it.
  37. Anonymous Member

    I've told you.
    Now what?
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  38. idealisticguy Member

  39. Anonymous Member

    Lol you so mad you forgot where the enter key was.

    Yes I agree with this part:
    It is a waste of time fucking around here. So good bye. I won't miss you.

    Who said I'm trying to do that? Occupy Wall Street wasn't about uniting the masses. What was it about? What is the Plan?
  40. idealisticguy Member

    Im typing from my phone and im not mad im sad. Im sad that you care so little about real reform and more about your e-dick. Im not here to be liked im here to try and make a difference which is why I started this thread. Change the thread and I wont get any more alerts. Try something like economic arguments that will never be heard outside of this forum and you'll be right on point.

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