ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8 NVA)

genoramix · Sep 9, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

ok i haven't read the whole thread, but what i think is :

1) WS handled the situation the best he could.
2)If he's not somehow tied with co$ WHY THE FUCK WOULD HE APPLY STUDY TECH TO HIS KIDS???(if someone has a GOOD answer for this, i'd be happy to read it)
3) TC is his friend. Again, seeing that all TC does is speaking about scientology and trying to recruit his friends, it seems ....VERY WEIRD to me.
4)....hmmm i'm still thinking about 4)
5) i think WS is full of BS. This school needs to be closely monitored.
6) the fact that there were no pix is irrelevant. imho, even the meeting with anons is irrelevant until further investigation. Actors know how to lie, and the last thing he wants is a PR flap at the opening of his school.
7) Since when we can has CONSTRUCTIVE discussion with the other side?

For me, it's no win, neither fail. Time will tell.

anonymizzz · Sep 9, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

for clarification (yes way back in the thread, forgive me):

the request for pictures/vids is not because we ZOMG want to be tourists or want to see Will Smith or want to fap to anons, its because there was set a principle to record everything we do in public. This is the interwebs, where anyone can say anything; without documentation, shit don't mean a thing. Also, demanding pics/vids builds good habits - stay safe people. <3

iaxiloll · Sep 9, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

anonymizzz;560578 said:

for clarification (yes way back in the thread, forgive me):

the request for pictures/vids is not because we ZOMG want to be tourists or want to see Will Smith or want to fap to anons, its because there was set a principle to record everything we do in public. This is the interwebs, where anyone can say anything; without documentation, shit don't mean a thing. Also, demanding pics/vids builds good habits - stay safe people. <3

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

themadhair · Sep 9, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

genoramix;560572 said:

2)If he's not somehow tied with co$ WHY THE FUCK WOULD HE APPLY STUDY TECH TO HIS KIDS???(if someone has a GOOD answer for this, i'd be happy to read it)

Seconded.

OSAHase · Sep 9, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

2)If he's not somehow tied with co$ WHY THE FUCK WOULD HE APPLY STUDY TECH TO HIS KIDS???(if someone has a GOOD answer for this, i'd be happy to read it)

Thirded.

14G0 · Sep 9, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

genoramix;560572 said:

2)If he's not somehow tied with co$ WHY THE FUCK WOULD HE APPLY STUDY TECH TO HIS KIDS???(if someone has a GOOD answer for this, i'd be happy to read it)

Twelved.

And:
I want vox/plox/dox of everything that happens (especially when it's epic) because there is a backdoor or two open to some old pals (who have gone further in media than I could ever dream of) and every time something like this happens I fire it all in to them. It's not just Anon that's waiting, there are many others. But hey, when SoCal is ready they're ready.

/spoons

Anon Fifty Seven · Sep 9, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH

anonymous90405;558071 said:

In this case, the method happens to be a small part of a huge load of other crap that doesn't work, but the way that this small portion was used, it *did* work. I've heard TONS of people say that the Communications Course is really good and actually teaches some effective methods...that doesn't mean that all the courses are awesome and effective, but that one happens to be.

The "best" courses seem to be at the beginning.

EDIT: Their best courses still aren't good.

2nd EDIT: There are ways to learn the useful stuff e.g. looking words up in a dictionary, without the mindfuck.

subgenius · Sep 9, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

why apply st to his kids?
Jada.

aNONanon · Sep 9, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

Picking out good things from Scientology or Study Tech is like picking raisins out of shit. You can do it but you'll still get shit-covered raisins!

Odog · Sep 9, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

Never believe an actor.

He'll look you in the eye and tell you, in all sincerity, he's telling the truth.

He's acting.

Woll Smoth is married to a 4cilon and his best mate's a $cilon.

Hieronymous · Sep 9, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

what the heck has jada done lately anyway, no disrespect, but the last thing I remember her in was Matrix Revolutions

people who get into this shit just seem to disappear...

14G0 · Sep 9, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

Hieronymous;561011 said:

no disrespect

WAT?

Fuck 'er.

JADA PINKETT-SMOTH IS A CLOSETED CARPET MUNCHING TALENTLESS SCILON NIGRETTE WHO LOOKS LIKE A MAN.

Tupac said "Jada is my heart and soul. She will be my friend for my whole life." Shortly after saying this he heard ACK ACK ACK ACK and died.

What does that say about Jada huh? DO NOT WANT!

Flynn · Sep 9, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

DeliciousCakeSF;560407 said:

Oooooh... I am so making these signs... /r/ HI RES VERSION PL0X :flowers:

[SIZE="3"][COLOR="DarkRed"]Delivery for Anonymous[/COLOR][/SIZE]

Hi Res Bitmap w/ teh spooky eyes

Vector PDF for teh SOOPER HUGE

cross posting in http://forums.whyweprotest.net/11-f...signs-schools-closed-due-lrh-infection-27269/ ftw

subgenius · Sep 9, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

Oh to have a video of that. Can you even imagine?

an_hero · Sep 9, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

School Curriculum has been uploaded and a thread created for dissection: http://forums.whyweprotest.net/123-...des-pre-k-thru-6-curriculum-28626/#post561279

MarcabEmpress · Sep 9, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

OMXenu, you so rock^^^^^^^

SamJac55 · Sep 9, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

He is a scilon and an actor.
He is willing and capable of lying to your face.
You got handled good. He did what other scilons fail to do. Handle a situation by giving you what you want. Some back and forth and reassurance.
Giving out information to parents and WS is always good (i'm sure he has heard it before) but in no way should his conversation slow you down in your efforts to expose the link to Co$. Keep the heat on until it is too risky to associate his school with "Study Tech" or Co$. Actors make their living on their rep and TC is a sinking ship. Nobody wants to get near him.

demosthenes · Sep 9, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

14G0;559925 said:

upon reading wiki, was led to this 2006 Readers Digest article:
Will Smith Interview: Will's Roots | Your America | Reader's Digest

Wherein he says: (snip)

An insight into who (and what) we're dealing with here.

I find this whole thing contradictory. If he's against traditional teaching methods then how is the teacher actually going to reech dese keeds? I can imagine a room of students all quietly reading, flipping through the dictionary for 'misunderstoods' and nothing being discussed/questioned. Gonna have to wait for those curriculum dox. This is getting worse the more I think on it and it was super arsed up to begin with. I'm all for alternative teaching methods but fuck, Study Tech is such a mess.

For those who don't want to go digging, here's what Smith said:

Will Smith said:

RD: Have you ever thought about going back to college?
Smith: The things that have been most valuable to me I did not learn in school. Traditional education is based on facts and figures and passing tests -- not on a comprehension of the material and its application to your life. Jada and I homeschool our children, because the date of the Boston Tea Party does not matter.

RD: But there are some basics in education that need to be taught.
Smith: Of course there are. Reading, writing and arithmetic, because those are the languages of our country.

RD: When you say you homeschool, do you mean you actually teach them?
Smith: No, we have hired teachers who teach what we feel is important. For example, Plato's Republic -- kids need to know that. Why is that not taught in first grade?

RD: You think kids in elementary school should read Plato's Republic?
Smith: Yeah. You cannot be an American without reading it and Aristotle's Politics. That is what the forefathers of this country read, and they used them to create what I believe is the finest system of government that has ever existed.

RD: So, you don't see any reason to go back to a formal education yourself?
Smith: I know how to learn anything I want to learn. I absolutely know that I could learn how to fly the space shuttle because someone else knows how to fly it, and they put it in a book. Give me the book, and I do not need somebody to stand up in front of the class.

RD: They put physics in a book, but I know I could never be a physicist.
Smith: The first step is you have to say that you can.

RD: In The Pursuit of Happyness, you play the real-life Chris Gardner [profiled in this month's "Money Makers"], who in the early '80s was a single father living on the streets with his son. But he got an internship at Dean Witter and ended up a multimillionaire, the owner of his own brokerage firm. He was a very determined man who believed in himself, and you seem to share similar views on life.
Smith: The thing I connected to was his desire to win.

RD: Deciding that if you want to do something, you're going to do it.
Smith: Absolutely.

This isn't study tech or Scientology. The basic theory goes, all people are equally intelligent and capable, saying "I can't" is just BAWWWing, so if you sit your ass down and do it, you can learn whatever you want.

In a lot of ways it's exactly the opposite of the scilons' mystical, "oh, we can save your soul for all eternity, but you are incapable of doing it by yourself, so give us a lot of money and we'll show you, and in the meantime we will watch your every move and control your whole life."

Dunno about pix or handling or any of that, but I'm hopeful.

whosit · Sep 9, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

K - I'm late to the discussion but I have read through the entire thread. One point that I was kind of surprised no one brought up. One of the first things Will asks is if the SoCal Anons are part of Anonymous.

Anonymous has be declared a SP group.

If Will is a Scientologist he is going to lie straight to your face about anything and everything.

A little link for all the random people that might stumble upon this thread.
Fair Game (Scientology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fair Game Law

In 1965 Hubbard formulated the "Fair Game Law", which states how to deal with people who interfere with Scientology's activities. These problematic people, called suppressive persons, could be considered "fair game" for retaliation:

A Suppressive Person or Group becomes fair game. By FAIR GAME is meant, may not be further protected by the codes and disciplines or the rights of a Scientologist.[4]

Later in December of that year, Hubbard reissued the Fair Game policy with additional clarifications to define the scope of Fair Game. He made it clear that the policy applied to non-Scientologists as well. He declared:

The homes, property, places and abodes of persons who have been active in attempting to: suppress Scientology or Scientologists are all beyond any protection of Scientology Ethics, unless absolved by later Ethics or an amnesty ... this Policy Letter extends to suppressive non-Scientology wives and husbands and parents, or other family members or hostile groups or even close friends.[5]

Hubbard made it clear elsewhere in his writings that the policy would be applied to external organizations, including governments, that were guilty of having interfered with Scientology's activities. He told Scientologists:

If the Internal Revenue Service (in refusing the FCDC [Founding Church of Scientology, Washington DC] non-profit status) continues to act up or if the FDA does sue we can of course Comm Ev [Committee of Evidence] them and if found guilty, label and publish them as a Suppressive Group and fair game ... [N]one is fair game until he or she declares against us.[6]

The policy was further extended in an October 1967 Policy Letter (HCOPL 18 Oct 67 Issue IV, Penalties for Lower Conditions), where Hubbard defined the "penalties" for an individual deemed to be in a "Condition of Enemy":

ENEMY — SP Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.[7]

When a man named Peter Goodwin in Hampshire, England purchased a high-level Scientology course for £250 and resold it to friends for £50, Hubbard personally issued an Ethics order which "withdrew any future help from Goodwin and his associates, (presumably for eternity), and threatened the most dire retaliations."[8]

TL;DR: I don't trust Smith, his school is bullshit and should be picketed daily.

OTBT · Sep 9, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

whosit;561814 said:

I don't trust Smith, his school is bullshit and should be picketed daily.

Yes. Stay on target.

Hieronymous · Sep 9, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

Do we have any way of following up?

iaxiloll · Sep 10, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

whosit;561814 said:

K - I'm late to the discussion but I have read through the entire thread. One point that I was kind of surprised no one brought up. One of the first things Will asks is if the SoCal Anons are part of Anonymous.

Anonymous has be declared a SP group.

If Will is a Scientologist he is going to lie straight to your face about anything and everything.

TL;DR: I don't trust Smith, his school is bullshit and should be picketed daily.

This is a very relevant point, but there are many who will argue that there is no proof that Will or Jada are indeed Scientologists.

iaxiloll · Sep 10, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

Another point that could be made here is that from my experience, Scientology is not a "Religion" it is a way of life. There is no half stepping involved that is why the longer the members are in the moar sinister they get. So how come Will can pop up grab Study Tech, apply it how he wants, and wash his hands clean of the cult. I opened a thread a while back (below) and it seems to me that Will would be either the prime candidate or a great actor.http://forums.whyweprotest.net/7-general-discussion/do-you-know-happy-scientolgist-27258/

iaxiloll · Sep 10, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

Anti-Scientologists protest against Will Smith - AskMen.com

On Wednesday morning (03.09.08) Anonymous activists picketed outside the New Village Academy private school in Calabasas, California, which is funded by the actor and his wife Jada Pinkett Smith, who is a devout followerof the bizarre sci-fi cult.

Spokesperson for Anonymous - who want the Church of Scientology to lose its tax exemption status in the US - Gareth Cales, who refused to wear a mask, said: "Will Smith and Jada Pinkett Smith, an admitted Scientologist, have opened this private school as a front for teaching the L. Ron Hubbard principles of 'Study Technology, his creation, and the school employs Scientologists.

aNONanon · Sep 10, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

whosit;561814 said:

TL;DR: I don't trust Smith, his school is bullshit and should be picketed daily.

Yeah nobody should trust him blindly, the fact is no person here knows him personally so be skeptical and focus on actions not words. On the other side nobody has the right to say he is lying either, we have no reason to believe that so far. They were very cooperative and we should give them credit for that, anons had the opportunity to meet with teachers, were given curriculum so be armed with facts and continue to investigate and educate. Respect them and they'll respect you (if there is not much scilon influence LOL)

themadhair · Sep 10, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

aNONanon;562059 said:

On the other side nobody has the right to say he is lying either, we have no reason to believe that so far.

Really? I think genoramix summed it up best:

genoramix;560572 said:

2)If he's not somehow tied with co$ WHY THE FUCK WOULD HE APPLY STUDY TECH TO HIS KIDS???(if someone has a GOOD answer for this, i'd be happy to read it)

anonymusicz · Sep 10, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

An interview with Woll Smoth has Will Smoth saying that Jada is "gung-ho about it [scientology]"

I'd say that rather definitive proof about her involvment.

[1] BET.com - What The Flick Jada Pinkett-Smith

Pacifist · Sep 10, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

Want to further convince his Freshness that Scientology is bad? One of you people who met with him should go drop by his school office again and hand him a packet of information. Include testimonials of abuse, quotes and sources of LRH's racism, public records of Snow White and Freakout, and most importantly, why study tech is bad.

David Touretzky has explained how mu's, learning on a gradient, etc can be used to confuse a person, and convince them they are wrong if the have any questions or doubt. It's a prequel to brain washing. They learn that their doubts only exist because they misunderstood a word or tried to learn something out of order.

gregg · Sep 10, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

Pacifist;562144 said:

Want to further convince his Freshness that Scientology is bad? One of you people who met with him should go drop by his school office again and hand him a packet of information. Include testimonials of abuse, quotes and sources of LRH's racism, public records of Snow White and Freakout, and most importantly, why study tech is bad.

http://img1.anonbw.com/press/GoldInfoPack.pdf

aNONanon · Sep 10, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

aNONanon;562059 said:

On the other side nobody has the right to say he is lying either, we have no reason to believe that so far.

themadhair;562089 said:

Really? I think genoramix summed it up best:

genoramix;560572 said:

2)If he's not somehow tied with co$ WHY THE FUCK WOULD HE APPLY STUDY TECH TO HIS KIDS???(if someone has a GOOD answer for this, i'd be happy to read it)

For me, it's no win, neither fail. Time will tell.

The are many reasons he might be compelled to do that, he has a lot of sci influence around him, probably his wife and certainly nutjob tommygirl so they could be pushing it ... it doesn't sound so bad if you don't know a lot about scientology from dark side, your wife and good friend telling you that all that fuss in media are lyies and if you actually don't bother to make extensive research yourself is it so hard to believe that he might be duped?

Time will tell indeed, don't jump into conclusions ... so far so good.

Edit: Also his behavior so far was nothing like a scieno, that doesn't mean we shouldn't be sceptical but it tells us something. Can you imagine Tom Cruise having civilized conversation with anonymous? If he would come to talk to anon (highly unlikly) he would come there like homo novice talk to you degraded beings and tryed to handle you like no one before him! And then if you looked at him funny he would sue the hell out of you ...

gregg · Sep 10, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

double post, cocks.

Anonymoux · Sep 10, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

Attention: Teachers and Education Experts
FYI

See this thread started by Meatpopsicle in Think Tank. MP is collecting comments to construct a tight argument in opposition to *Study Tech* :

calling all teachers/lecturers and ex-Scilons: intellectual checkmate on 'Study Tech' - Enturbulation.org | Scientology Critic & Activism Forum

ScudMuffin · Sep 10, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

The autobahn comment makes me facepalm.

He's a sci, no question of that.

whosit · Sep 10, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

aNONanon;562608 said:

Edit: Also his behavior so far was nothing like a scieno, that doesn't mean we shouldn't be sceptical but it tells us something. Can you imagine Tom Cruise having civilized conversation with anonymous? If he would come to talk to anon (highly unlikly) he would come there like homo novice talk to you degraded beings and tryed to handle you like no one before him! And then if you looked at him funny he would sue the hell out of you ...

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this statement. His behavior so far has been very much been like a scieno - just the OLD time scienos - the non idiots - which are far worse. I'm not one, but I have been following this for years. Other people have been following this for even longer. I might be persona non grata over at OCMB nowadays but there are people there that can speak to this and a history of threads that show the exact same type of behavior that Mr. Smith is exhibiting now.

(Daywatch - please ignore the moonbat OCMB references)

He handled SoCal. I hate to say it and I'm not trying to start a fight but that is what I'm seeing.

I don't trust Will Smith. His school is bullshit. And BTW doesn't his searching all over the world sound slightly familiar?

ScudMuffin · Sep 10, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

MarcabEmpress;557794 said:

Before you say pics or it didn’t happen, there was no way possible for us to take pictures or record what happened at the end of the picket:

:colbert:

He wanted to incorporate study tech because it worked for his kids. He did NOT license Applied Scholastics or Study Tech when Home Schooling and is checking to make sure that licensing is not occurring now. We pointed out that licensing ST and AP creates a funding stream for Scientology and brought up again RPF disconnection and Fair game.

I'll believe he's checking when I see he's checking.

He assured us that the school has just taken what they like about StudyTech but to be completely transparent they are calling it what it is.

“Let me ask you something,” replied Will. “Did you take the freeway here? Where to think that came from?” We knew the answer “autobahn.” And one Anon mentioned not agreeing with the composer Wagner’s political views, but occasionally enjoying his music.

Irrelavent. He's trying to justify using AS/ST by comparing it to a motorway and saying 'oh look the nazis built the first one and used forced labour but you all use them today'. He has no point, a motorway is just a giant road, ST principles are designed to enable easy indoctrination and the blind acceptance that follows it.

Smith says that he and Jada have traveled all over five continents looking at educational techniques, and have incorporated them. The co founder of the school is Muslim, staff includes Christians and Jews.

Dox? Needs looking into.

He says Tom Cruise is his friend and he has looked in Tom’s eyes and KNOWS Tom wants to help people that he means well (he compared TC to the rabbi at the Simon Weisenthal Center in terms of that degree of dedication).

Yeah, but unfortunately he's being lied to and mislead by his best friend who also happens to be a batshit insane cult leader.

Will said he had worked very hard to make sure all study materials at the school were secular and had had his pastor at his church (which he named, but out of respect I wont) look at them to make sure they were secular and that no religious agenda was being pushed.

That sounds like out right rubbish the moment he brings the preacher into it, in fact it sounds positively rediculous.

He reacted very strongly and a little confused when asked if he had been audited, used an emeter or done the purif: “I am looking you straight in the eyes. NO! I am NOT a Scientologist.”

We had a plant in BrumAnon like that. After a few obs projects it turned out he was a sci, his adamant denial was what made us suspicious in the first place.

He made a point to give us direct eye contact, addressing our questions and assuring us that he would follow through on seeing if they were licensing AppliedScholstics at NVLA, but reiterated that he does not want to license any teaching methods.

I'll believe it when I see it.

tldr

Protest = Good.
No Pics = Bad
Woll Smoth = Talking Shite

DeliciousCakeSF · Sep 10, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

Flynn;561167 said:

[SIZE="3"][COLOR="DarkRed"]Delivery for Anonymous[/COLOR][/SIZE]

Hi Res Bitmap w/ teh spooky eyes

Vector PDF for teh SOOPER HUGE

cross posting in http://forums.whyweprotest.net/11-f...signs-schools-closed-due-lrh-infection-27269/ ftw

:woot: Thanks so much for this Flynn! This will end up as my sign in SF this Saturday! <3 :flowers:

Lorelei · Sep 11, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

robertpaulsonanon;559491 said:

4. It doesn't appear we've made a sufficiently strong case to WS why Study Tech/Applied Scholastics is bad. Meatpopsicle's post is a good start. We need to build on that and document it well for future fliers. We also need to clearly document with graphics and text in future fliers the relationship between Applied Scholastics and Scientology. This is a weakness in our arguments that we need to address. Two approaches are detailed below:

4a. One of Study Tech's flaws is the way it butchers the English language. "Misunderstood" is the past tense of a f#####g transitive verb; it's not a noun. "Gradient", although not commonly used, is a real word unrelated to LRH's BS. There is no such thing as a "gradient scale". Likewise for "mass". You can take the entire Scilon lexicon and apply the "Princess Bride" quote: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means". Scilons twist every word they use; psychs, SPs, wins, clear, enturbulate, the list goes on and on. Are there any ex-Scilons who can clarify how they use the dictionary in conjunction with this goobledygook? I think a good avenue of attack would be to document the way LRH trashes the English language, and then ask parents; is this the guy whose "technology" you want in your kids' classrooms?

4b. A basic explication of the scientific method would be another line of attack. In the real world, experiments are based on "falsifiable statements"-hypotheses that are capable of being disproven. Scientology doesn't make any-just continually asserts its unfounded "truths", such as the working of an e-meter. How do you disprove a thetan? And then, if you disagree with something, go back and "study it" until you're bludgeoned into belief. In fact, the whole Scientology "if it's true to you" bullshit asserts that all experience and reality is subjective. All science is predicated on objective knowledge. Therefore, science and scientology are in direct opposition.

All good and pertinent points that should make any concerned parent pause and think again.

This may also be pertinent:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Narconon/science.htm said:

When it came to matters of science, Hubbard displayed a consistent talent for making logical and factual errors. Scientology itself is a prime example of this trait; it can be described as a shaky pyramid of dubious assumption upon unscientific supposition. The whole of Scientology, comprising more than 30 years' work by Hubbard, is based on just three fundamental propositions:

* That memories of "past lives" and present-day traumas are an objective record of real events;

* That the agent responsible for memory and identity is an incorporeal, immortal entity housed in the human body;

* That the entity (a "theta being" or "thetan") can be detected by measuring changes in the body's electrical conductivity through the use of a skin galvanometer.

Each of these is extremely contentious. The first point was partly a cause of the breakup of the Dianetics movement - many of the more scientifically minded Dianeticians rejected what they saw as Hubbard's credulity in accepting "past lives" so uncritically. Hubbard's first medical adviser Dr. Joseph A. Winter commented later, "to give to these highly improbable events the evaluation of complete reality was to me an indication of a lack of scientific skepticism." [Dr J.A. Winter, "A Doctor's Report on Dianetics" (1951), p. 189] The second point is a wholly unscientific concept, as there is no realistic method of testing it. The third point is Hubbard's attempt to verify his thetan hypothesis, by measuring the indirect effects of its existence; unfortunately for him, the phenomenon in question (bioelectricity), which was poorly understood in the 1950s, is by now well understood and can be accounted for with no recourse to thetans or any other supernatural explanations. It is, after all, the basis for the everyday use of lie detectors.

The three points illustrate well Hubbard's flawed approach to matters of science. As Dr. Winter complained, Hubbard was unduly credulous, believing in numerous improbable things (past lives, alien invaders, interplanetary genocides) on the basis of little or no evidence; his research methods, where they existed at all, can only be described as rudimentary at best; when he came up with a theory, he stuck to it like a limpet, no matter how much opposing evidence was found. Much of the time, Hubbard's approach amounted to coming up with a theory and finding (or inventing) the evidence to support it. This is exactly opposite to how real science works: evidence observed leads to theories to explain the evidence; other scientists attempt to disprove the theory by finding alternative explanations for the evidence. There is no sign from Hubbard's work that he took this approach. The fault quite clearly lies with him personally, as his early supporters were well aware of the cardinal principles of science.

Ignoring these principles, Hubbard's chronically flawed approach to science left his work riddled with unsupported assumptions, logical errors and factual misstatements (see Narconon Exposed: Is Narconon Valid? - Hubbard's Junk Science -- "Hubbard's Junk Science" for more on this topic). Many of the errors he made would have shamed a high school student. Most, if not all, of his mistakes could have been prevented if he had bothered to check an encyclopaedia. This combination of false claims of expertise plus acute ignorance of the subject matter is apparent in many other aspects of Scientology and Narconon. Unfortunately for both organisations, the Scientologists' dogmatic faith in Hubbard's infallibility means that when science and Scientology conflict, Scientology must always win.

It is true that this info is from a NArconon awareness site, but Narconon--just like Applied Scholastics, Criminon, Second Chance, Way to Happiness, W.I.S.E. and A.B.L.E.--is a Scientology front group that indoctrinates the vulnerable or unwary into Scientology "tech" and general fucked-up-ness. Whther the vulnerable party is an addict seeking help with addiction or an underaged child, or a businessperson who has no idea what s/he is getting into (see ALLSTATE & SEARS), Scientology preys on the vulnerable, and is enabled by both willing and unwitting accomplices who may or may not be Scientologists.

Scientology is BAD JUJU. The more you learn, the worse it gets. Children have little choice but to go along with what their parent(s) or guardian(s) tell them to do, thus the focus of any education and information-dissemination has to be the parents and guardians.

SoCal Anons made a good foray into getting information into the hands of a parent. Famous or not, Will is a human being and a parent, and you need to, IMHO, approach him as a parent, not a celebrity worthy of awe. Sounds like you handled it just fine, and asking for pix / vids at that point would have placed him into a Celeb role rather than fellow human being (fellow) concerned parent role.

Hopefully I haven't missed a response that echoes identical sentiments; I paused while reading through all the replies to respond to RobertPaulsonAnon.

AnonKiwi · Sep 11, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

Got some comments.

I've spent a bit of time talking to people who have been slightly involved with Scientology, generally through various front groups.

The Scientologists were always very careful to shield the crazy from these people, and while they may have done a comms course or two, they know no more than this about Scientology.

Some even think Scientology is a bit nuts, but like a couple of the 'technologies' and find them useful. Some of them worked for years in front groups before moving on to other things.

While we know that this is the slippery slope and these people are being used by Scientology for PR, we have to be prepared to accept that these people are not evil.

Maybe they are dupes, maybe they are tools of the DM empire, but if we only ever think of the world as "Scientologists" and "everyone else", and put these people in there with the likes of Moxdog and DM, then we're missing the point, IMHO. These people need our help and understanding and they need a friendly contact in the real world to explain how close they've come and how they've been used.

Witch hunts are so 17th century.

anonymizzz · Sep 11, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

not evil does not mean that we can't hold them responsible.

Lorelei · Sep 11, 2008

Re: ANONYMOUS MEETS with WILL SMITH HIMSELF - WS Justifies Study Tech (Result of 9/8

I don't think most of us think ALL Scientologists are "evil." In fact, many of us have expressed concern and compassion for the lower-level Scientologists who don't know what they are getting into, and for people who were scammed by front groups of Scientology.

Those who are higher-level Scientologists who Fair Game, bullbait, lie, file fraudulent DMCAs, engage in frivolous litigation, know about the RPF and don't object, force families to Disconnect, lie about blue asbestos on the Freewinds, try to take over entire towns (Clearwater) through stealth, intimidation, bribery, corruption and lies, and even low-level wankers like terryeo, oschaper, xemutv and so on who comment-spam to distract neutral observers and "black PR" critics into submission? They are a different kettle of fish entirely.

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