Any legal fallout from the Injunction after Flag Down?

Discussion in 'Leaks & Legal' started by Jeff Jacobsen, Jun 16, 2014.

  1. Church of Scientology, Flag Service Organization vs. Bob Minton and the Lisa McPherson Trust
    Case No. 99-7430-CI-08
    Note: This case was formerly known as Howd. vs. Minton.


    Anita Gogola

    Arnie Lerma

    Bob Minton

    Frank Oliver

    Grady Ward

    Heather Bennett

    Jeff Jacobsen
    Jesse Prince

    John Merrett

    Jon Enerson

    Keith Henson

    Rod Keller

    Tory Bezazian

    and the Lisa McPherson Trust - represented by Stacy Brooks
  2. amaX Member

    My proving that Arnie Lerma was served with the LMT injunction again negates your argument that he is already on the LMT injunction and that LMT drama was somehow caused by his presence at Flag Down.

    He's not on the injunction so you are beating a dead horse at this point.

    You're a LOSER. Drop down and gimme---you know what? Just drop down and stay there, motherfucker.
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  3. amaX Member


    The only people listed at that link and the ONLY people listed on the true copy that I received when I was served are these people:

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  4. amaX Member

    God. You are so stupid.

    The cult STILL had to legally have a go after each individual person who is allegedly in concert with those people already named to the injunction.



    You're still a loser and I thought I told you to get down and stay the fuck down.

    Down, boy. DOWN.
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  5. amax, are you a non-english speaker?
    This message by icanread has been hidden due to negative ratings. (Show message)
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  6. amaX Member

    Shhhh. Stay down, motherfucker. It'll be easier for you that way.
    • Like Like x 2
  7. AmaX, thanks for posting the dox.

    I am not the other asshole poster. But there are a few points which have come up in your interchange which could explain what might be going on:

    1. While Lerma was on the process server's list of people to be served, there is no evidence this occurred. You, Griffiths and Xander all were served and stated that it happened. I don't recall Lerma ever saying he was served or anyone saying that they saw it happen.

    2. I Googled around and found this that shows Arnie was listed as being on the LMT Advisory Committee (bold on Arnie's name added):

    Note that Ray Emmons is also on the Advisory Committee and was at the conference, even given an award.

    3. The deputy wrote to you, "He [the process server] was basically delivering a copy to you via the 'process'. I suspect that Scientology views you and your conference as 'associates of LMT' – that is where the attorney comes into play – to determine if you ARE or AREN’T. Point out page 6, paragraph 2 to the attorney.”

    So with all this in play, it would seem that the cult could have been coming after you (as a Flag Down organizer) being in concert with Lerma (as a Flag Down speaker and a member of the Lisa McPherson Trust Advisory Committee). That would then make sense on why they served Griffiths and Xander, who were also Flag Down organizers. On trying to serve Arnie again - don't know for sure, but it seems like it could have been to re-emphasize the LMT connection.

    As the deputy points out, whether this is legally correct or not would be something to sort out with attorneys. But I have a feeling that the cult wouldn't just throw around the LMT Injunction without input from one of their expensive attorneys on it's effectiveness in relation to Flag Down.

    BTW, IANAL. I just wanted to dig in a bit more and try to figure out what's the deal here. I have no problem if anyone with a legal background can give better input.
  8. That is the lawsuit that Scientology filed, alleging that these people violated the injunction. The charges were withdrawn against Keller, and of the remaining people only Bezazian and Minton were found in violation. Bezazian for sitting in the Santa chair, and Minton for yelling at people in the street. They are both named parties in the injunction, and all parties not on the injunction were found not guilty. Bezazian was fined $50, and Minton $500.
  9. amaX Member

    I do know for a fact that the process server had an injunction that he was supposed to serve to Arnie because the process server showed that info to the deputy. The process server was very thorough in doing his job and went to multiple locations to serve other people so I don't think he gave up. Do I know for 100% sure that he found Arnie? No. You got me there. But the fact that they were trying to serve Lerma is proof that they are still trying to trap him.

    Someone is at fault here for causing us to be served, but it is not Arnie Lerma. I can't stress that enough. It is not Arnie Lerma.

    Yes. The deputy and another attorney that I shall not name have helped me understand it and we've figured it out.

    I am definitely in LMT injunction limbo and if I want to come out of that limbo then I need to hire an attorney and fight it.

    The cult knew exactly what they were doing and their attorneys played it with surgical precision.

    After all the bullshit and drama I've had to go through with this injunction? They still got me. I'm not rich so I'm not hiring an attorney to fight it. Fuck it.
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  10. JohnnyRUClear Member

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  11. wolfbane Member

    Blast from the past - relevant excerpt from Arnie's account of the first time they tried to get him added to the injunction. Irrelevant rambling trimmed:

    Timeline factoids: The initial temporary injunction, that got amended a few times, started in 1999. The permanent injunction was signed by the judge on July 27, 2001. So the above account of Arnie and "about a dozen recent participants ..." getting entangled in the mess when it was fresh (even though they were not picketing with named parties actually happened on the temporary injunction) actually happened under the temporary injunction - not the permanent one.
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  12. amaX Member

    <3 Thank you.
  13. BigBeard Member

    Ummm...For us non-lawyers, how is anyone supposed to be "acting in concert" these days with an organization that ceased to exist years ago??

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  14. Quentinanon Member

    Ceased to exist and all but two of the parties no longer live in Florida or are dead. Remember what Hubbard said about lawsuits: the purpose is to harass.
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  15. amaX Member

    It's a permanent injunction and it will remain a permanent injunction until someone on the list challenges it and wins. The cult's attorneys knew what they were doing when they drew up this mess and it's still affecting people all these years later.
  16. ...and your actions did not help and in fact added to the hurt of picketers by reinforcing that injunction. To top it off, you attack Mark Bunker, the only one who had the balls to ry and do something to get rid of the injunction. Getting more and more brownie points in CW, aren't cha?
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  17. amaX Member

    I thought I told you to stay down, Loser. Who in the goddamned hell gave you permission to type? It wasn't me so why the fuck are you typing?

    Pay attention, Loser. You don't think on your own. You do what you're told. People tell you what to type and when to type it. Everything you do is at the mercy of some other person's directions. No matter how stupid or insane the directions you have to carry them out or you're in trouble.

    There's no back-talking when they slap your masochistic ass in front of the computer. You give them grudging and angry respect even though you have to bite the sides of your cheeks to keep from screaming.

    You have to let it slide because they softened your backbone and left you permanently vulnerable to their domination of you.

    They dominate you where you sit right now. I dominate you here.

    I will grind the heel of my boot into your back every time you post something about me. I will remind you every time that your life is so fucked that your guts will churn at the thought of your superiors handing you yet another derogatory lying bullshit missive about me.

    Cry yourself to sleep in your bunk tonight---if they let you sleep this evening. Your tears are delicious.
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  18. rickybobby Member

    Well, BB, I believe you have a good point here, yet another one to put in front of a judge should they foolishly decide to actually enforce that abortion of an injunction.We know it's shit, they know it's shit, that's why they only serve xerox copies.
  19. Nancy Beazley Member

    The 'xerox copies' are indeed 'true copies.' That's all they need to serve - a 'true copy.'
  20. amaX Member

    The cult serves it because they can serve it when someone on the permanent injunction list does something that can be construed as acting in concert with someone.

    The person who is served (like I have been) should retain an attorney to go through the legal system to make sure you're not added permanently. You're in a kind of injunction limbo when you're served.

    You can fight it and win like Arnie Lerma and Shawn Lonsdale (R.I.P. Shawn=CULT WATCH DAY 2,998!)

    But their wins did not dissolve the injunction.

    The people on that injunction are going to have to fight it.

    The injunction is shitty, but it's not dead yet. The cult will use it every single time they can because what do they care if they win or lose? The person who has been served has to hire an attorney and fork over $$$ to fight it. And while they're fighting it they are in limbo.
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  21. rickybobby Member

    My understanding is they have to register their service at the courthouse for it to be true service. Ianal, but I did stay at a holiday inn. If you are knowledgeable, please tell me more.
  22. amaX Member

    I am knowledgeable.

    The process server who served us during Flag Down is a process server in good standing with Pinellas Co. The process server was asked to come into the office of the deputy who oversees all the process servers in Pinellas Co.

    The process server complied and explained what was going on to the deputy. The process server did everything correctly.

    The deputy then explained to me what was going on.

    In the State of Florida you can serve someone with an injunction and point out the parts that pertain to you without filing for a court date, etc. This is like a legal warning. There's no court date. The ball is in your court. You can either stay in permanent injunction limbo or hire an attorney and get yourself out of limbo. IF you don't follow the rules of the injunction then the cult can and probably will file with the county and you're going to court whether you want to or not.
  23. Nancy Beazley Member

    My understanding is that a true copy is, well, a true copy. A certified copy is a copy that has been certified to be true. The certification doesn't make a true copy any more true. But it does provide peace of mind that someone of legal authority (a court official, a notary public) confirmed that the copy was true.

    A certified true copy is typically used when a document of a "true copy" has to be executed and the executed document will then govern parties' future obligations.

    I hereby declare that I am also not a lawyer. But, like you, I have stayed at a Holiday Inn.

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  24. amaX Member

    Florida is different than other places. (Like I need to tell you all that...)

    What I was served with is a legal warning that I need to address in court or ignore it and remain in limbo. I'm doing the limbo.
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  25. White Tara Global Moderator

    Limbo on down babe. :)
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  26. OK, thanks. So from what you got, it seems like this was a correct service. I guess that also means the "true copy" thing is not an issue since what you got was a legal warning?
  27. amaX Member

    It was a true copy with highlighted parts to show me the pertinent parts that scientology thinks relate to me being in concert with someone on the permanent injunction.
  28. Hmmm, OK. So since Xander and pedrofcuk were also served, seems like that means they are in "injunction limbo" as well?
  29. White Tara Global Moderator

    How Xander and Pedro respond to the service, is a matter entirely for them, I am sure they will let us know when its timely.
    No sense in tipping your hand on an open forum now is there.
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  30. Jeff Jacobsen Member

    IANAL but it seems to me if you're worried about the injunction, just follow the rules of the injunction when you protest.
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  31. Ersatz Global Moderator

    I knew you were going to have your ass handed to you. amaX did not disappoint.
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  32. amaX Member

    IANAL, but I consulted with one and a deputy and it seems to both of them and to me that the people listed on the injunction wouldn't do things to make it possible for scientology to serve innocent people with the injunction.

    Why the fuck should I follow the rules of this injunction when I have done everything I possibly could to avoid being served only to end up served because of an egomaniac? Fuck this injunction and everyone listed on it that has caused innocent people to be served and fuck you for your passive aggressive bullshit. Why don't you come at me here on wwp like you bitch about me in private conversations?

    Also, how does it feel now that I'm part of your pissy little injunction group? Y'all wanted me so bad. You got me, fuckers.
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  33. amaX Member

    <MOD EDIT Name removed> is in Ireland. I assume he could care less about it.

    If <MOD EDIT Name Removed> was served with the same thing as I was then he is also in injunction limbo. Balls in his court if he wants to fight it or not.
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  34. Darth Xander Member

    Here's me doing the limbo.

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  35. White Tara Global Moderator

    Thar you go, The Xander has spoken :)
  36. The limbo. How low can you go Xander?
  37. Very low. Very, very low.
  38. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Next time wear a sandwich sign that has the injunction printed out on it, taking up one whole side. On the other side just put "got insouciance?"
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