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Are Indies still culties - what about "social shunning"?

Discussion in 'Independent Scientology' started by RolandRB, May 1, 2013.

  1. Gottabrain Member

    Thanks, Roland. I get it.

    I think you misunderstood me. I'll go through the Face posts myself to come up with something concise to answer the questions/buttons you brought up (and maybe suggest others). It will take me a day or two is all.
    • Like Like x 2
  2. OTeleventy Member

    Roland. I think what you wrote is great, and I am bookmarking it for future use.

    And I really look forward to Gottabrain's contributions.

    For video, I refer people to Jason Beghe's nice (2hr) screed.
    • Like Like x 2
  3. RolandRB Member

    I think Beghe is a narcissist and typical of many Scientologists but not all. I don't know what proportion of Scientologists are narcissistic. In the celebrity centres maybe most of them but the run of the mill well intentioned Scientologists in the ordinary "churches" who got trapped then not many I would think. Not many Indies I think are like that although many might be on some sort of power kick. They have got to be a bit retarded if that is the case due to the reasons stated in my article. There never was any OT powers to be had from Scientology and there is no point looking in there for it. Just the playing card tech can end it all.
  4. OTeleventy Member

    Point taken vis-a-vis narcissism. But perhaps you can equally attribute that to his celebrity.

    I hadn't thought of the points you raise. Never been in and I was blown away by his vid, but perhaps that says more about me than it does the video. Thx. Still have copied what you wrote above to use 'cause it's good. Will paste where needed.
    • Like Like x 1
  5. RolandRB Member

    I fixed some typos and redid some of the wording and added a Copyright notice that allows people to copy it:

    What trapped you into the Scientology cult and what still keeps you trapped as an "Indie"

    1) Social acceptance and shunning
    Most of us like to feel we are accepted by our group. When we came across Scientology as
    a new group we were "love bombed" a lot so that we felt accepted. We formed friendships
    in this new group. Even relationships and then marriage and children. All of this held
    together with an implied adherence to Scientology. We know that if we fall out of favour
    with Scientology then we lose not only the acceptance of the group but we lose our friends,
    out spouses and the love of our children. This is more than people can bear and so we are
    careful not to fall out of line with Scientology. And when they ask for money for their
    schemes then we give them that money, even if we can not afford it, to keep is as an
    accepted member of the group and well regarded.

    2) Separation from normal society
    Scientology wishes to impose its methods on our lives and deny us access to the normal
    mores of society. We are encouraged to become separated from normal society. To do that
    then society is demonized in small ways. Like telling us it is all run by drug companies
    and psychiatrists. That the world is aberrated with people acting out their "reactive
    minds". That it is a "wog world" and the Scientology way of doing things is better. We
    are told that reading newspapers and watching TV exposes us to "entheta" and that we will
    be happier if we are not exposed to it. Scientology teaches us a different language that
    we can not use in the outside world so after a while we become separated from normal
    society and fearful of it. Our "safe" society becomes Scientology society.

    3) Repression of thinking, doubts and disagreements
    We may have thought when we were newly in that some parts of Scientology were wrong. To
    get around that they have to demonize thinking. So "thinking" becomes "figure-figure" in
    Scientology - a supposed activity of the "reactive mind". And because Scientologists want
    to go "Clear" and lose their reactive mind then they stop thinking and in so doing believe
    they are defeating their reactive minds. It is quite normal for people in society to have
    doubts. If you have doubts in Scientology and check on facts then they will lose you. So
    having doubts becomes demonized as "out ethics". To doubt is to be in a "Condition
    of Doubt" and this causes you to be shunned from the group until you have proven to the
    group that you have overcome this doubt. And there are punishments for disagreement. If
    you disagree then this means you have gone past a word you did not understand. So you have
    to pay for any spend tens of hours rereading all your Scientology material until you have
    found that word you did not understand. And there is always the e-meter to pick up on your
    disagreements with Scientology. After a year or so of this constant pressure you will cease
    to be able to be critical of Scientology. You will not even have any doubts nor be able to
    even think of anything that you are in disagreement with. And we are pressured to do course
    after course and we get so tired that we do not have the energy to think outside
    Scientology in any case. Everybody gets pressured to join staff. If you join staff and
    leave before your contract is up then there will be a huge freeloaders debt you think you
    have to pay. The trap is then complete. You can not leave even if you wanted to. You
    become a tool of the cult to trap in more people and you will work long hours for very
    little money to do just that. Add to that what is in your confessional folders. This is
    something you will not want outsiders to know about and whether it was the result of your
    imagination or not, this information can and will be used against you if the cult chooses
    to do so. The trap has been sprung and you are well and truly caught. You are now a slave
    to the cult and now it is your job to enslave new members.

    4) The hopes and promises
    We would all like immunity from colds and flu, perfect recall and immunity from accidents.
    This is the obvious positive benefits of why we joined. But the longer we stay in and
    "study" Scientology then gradually these obvious goals get replaced by other goals and the
    advantages we hoped for change. The goal posts get moved. The gains we hoped for that were
    promised to us change with time until we end up pursuing Scientology goals that we would
    never have bee interested in when we joined. The promises of Dianetics Clear was the bait.
    But then it got switched to Scientology Clear. And then if we ever got to Scientology
    Clear then we did not get the promised gains. Instead, Clear becomes s state where we
    realize we are mocking up our own reactive minds (bearing in mind that we had to be
    persuaded that there was such a thing as a "reactive mind") and our goals now become the
    powers that will open up to us on the OT Levels. Hubbard promised great things about the
    OT levels. On L12 he said that he would not let a person leave the ship unless they were
    stable exterior with full perception. This was a sky high goal. Of course, for those who
    parted with all that money, there was no such state to be attained. Scientology always
    dangles the carrot in front of us and when we reach what we have striven for the goal
    disappears and the carrot has moved onwards.

    If even 5% of the promises of Scientology were true then they would have a huge following.
    The reality is that much less than 5% is true. More like 1%.

    5) OT Powers
    Nobody has gotten OT powers from Scientology auditing in any form even after more than
    fifty years of trying. From time to time some strange things might happen but this is the
    case from religion and new age practices of all sorts. There is nothing special about
    Scientology in this regard. Out-of-body experiences used to be common in early Scientology,
    especially with the "Book and Bottle" process (Op Pro by Dup). This was an extremely
    repetitive and boring process and it would be no surprise if this had a dissociative mental
    affect on people if continued for many hours or days. People from all walks of life and all
    religions have religious experiences from time to time and believe they have transcended the
    limitations of the normal world. But NONE of these people have an ability that can be
    demonstrated on demand. If anybody had such an ability then surely the Randi million dollars
    would have been won a long time ago.

    Why not put this to the test? You will know a number of people who claim they are OTs
    and are stably exterior from their body. If this is the case then they should be able
    to read playing cards placed at the back of their heads using their thetan vision or
    telepathy or something. Ask to test it on one of these people who make the claim of
    being stably exterior. None of them will oblige because they know they can not do this.

    Belief in OT powers and the belief that one day that they will be yours to command is
    one of the things keeping you trapped in Scientology. Putting it to the test will
    disabuse you of this belief.

    6) The Axioms of Scientology
    Scientology "appears" to be scientific because it is based on axioms. But these axioms
    are starting off points rather than self-evident truths. If Scientology followed a
    scientific approach then there would come the opportunity to establish these axioms
    as truths but nobody has attempted to do this. The case in point of testing supposedly
    stably exterior people if they can read a playing card placed at the back of their heads
    is something that could have been tested. If they can read the cards then people would
    feel justified in the idea that a thetan was something separate from the body and is
    just using the body. But this fundamental building block of the system of thought has
    never been tested and never will be because people know that it would fail.
    You maybe think that because Scientology appears to be scientific then it holds some
    validity and is perhaps more "advanced" that other religions or belief systems. However,
    it is not following a scientific approach and is not honest science. The axioms are
    just being used to dress a sham.

    7) The Axioms of Dianetics
    Dianetics has a set of axioms as well and yet Dianetics is dropped in favour of
    Scientology very early on in a person's "processing". No more will you hear about the
    moments of unconsciousness where words command you. It is all unceremoniously dropped
    in favour of Scientology processing at twenty times the cost. If the axioms are good
    for Scientology then why do they get dumped for Dianetics in favour of a more expensive
    form of processing? This should make you think.

    8) Past Lives
    If you could genuinely remember past lives then there would be something of value you
    could sell to the world. If you had studied science at school in your past lives then
    you could come up with the design for a home nuclear fusion generator or an eternal
    battery or some such other obvious useful device. Even if all your past lives lacked
    a science education and you were a soldier or a slave for all your past lifetimes then
    there would still be something you could sell like card, dice or board games that you
    could remember and market today. Instead, there is nothing useful from anybody who
    claims to remember past lives. One might conclude that all these supposed past life
    memories are a fabrication.

    9) Past Lives doing Scientology
    If you are an "Indie" and remember "past lives" then at some stage you will remember
    past lives in "Scientology" or some such other system and will have encountered L. Ron
    Hubbard and/or David Miscavige in your past life efforts in working towards some sort of
    religion to free Mankind. I am happy to let you know that you are not that stupid. If this
    were the case then Scientology or whatever it was known as in your past lives would have
    been put on a scientific foundation (i.e. axioms that were proven) millions of years ago
    and from your past lives you would know what was proven and how to prove it to put the
    religion on a firm scientific basis. This never happened. No group in existence is so
    stupid to get that wrong lifetime after lifetime so it never happened. Show yourself
    some respect and don't allow yourself to believe you have been a stupid moron for
    millions of years.

    10) Xenu and body thetans
    If you accepted the story of Xenu and body thetans then this should be a strong indicator
    that your mind has become weakened by doing Scientology. This story that adults believe
    in in Scientology is something to be laughed at by children. It is just such a weak and
    absurd story. The logistics of the movement of bodies across space with people not
    noticing people disappearing after their income tax audits is clearly absurd. The
    placement of bodies round volcanoes, some of which did not exist 75 million years ago
    and the logistics and infrastructure to accomplish this is absurd. If the bodies were
    "frozen in alcohol and glycol" then why not dump them all on a frozen body in space like
    Pluto? Each solar system likely has an ice belt so dump them there. The story is absurd
    and weak beyond believe. It is fourth rate science fiction sold expensively as spiritual
    truth. An mentally competent adult human being should be ashamed of themselves for believing
    such puerile nonsense.

    And what of the body thetans? How come they can be Cleared in seconds if we are the boss
    thetan and it takes us years? If they are real then you could send them somewhere to report
    back on what is there. You could set up a very successful line of espionage if they were
    real. You can't because, of course, they are not real. I know some Indies think that
    something like the Xenu story happened but maybe did not happen as Hubbard described but
    they go on to audit out their body thetans for hundreds or thousands of hours without
    anyone in more than fifty years establishing the validity of these body thetans.
    If you consider yourself to be mentally competent then do not let the human race down
    by believing in and practising such nonsense.

    11) The wasted years
    It may take twenty years or more and hundreds of thousands of dollars wasted before a
    person realizes that Scientology has not given them what they wanted out of life. They
    will never get that twenty years back. If the person is an intelligent person then they
    will not want to allow themselves to feel the shame of all those wasted years of their
    life. They will not see Hubbard as a liar and a con man who duped them out of their money
    and the best years of their life. It is better for their own pride if they carry on down
    the same path and justify their sacrifices. These are now your leaders and "tech terminals"
    in the Indie movement. Hopefully, you can face your decisions of the past with more honesty.

    99) The "Wog World" needs you back
    You were once a part of the "wog world". Your good intentions got you into Scientology.
    I hope you spend time thinking through the above points and see what is keeping you
    stuck in Scientology and so break those chains. The "Wog World" needs your good intentions
    and your efforts in making this world a better place and I hope that one day you will
    rejoin it.

    Copyright (C) Roland Rashleigh-Berry, May 2013. Permission is granted to anyone to
    reproduce this in any form so long as the original is used plus this copyright notice
    displayed with it.
    • Like Like x 2
  6. RolandRB Member

    I added a "Xenu and body thetans" section. I still don't understand why the Indies stick with Scientology. If they are mentally competent then I don't see that as being compatible.
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Gottabrain Member

    I've started on this, but not gotten far yet. Was focused on finding original L Ron interviews for other thread and exposing the con of his personal amazing genius and writings.

    Good section to add. Exorcising demons is an old aspect of mysticism.

    IMHO, the Axioms aren't all that important, not hard to show the flaws. Did you think they were when you were in?

    How about "magical thinking combined with structured solutions to problems?

    When scn was in its booming years, a huge number of recruits had Christian backgrounds. The perfect storm included strict parenting, lots of superstitious religious beliefs, desires to be special/holy/magic and do great good for the world, being raised in a structured environment but finding the new world of the 60s 70s 80s increasingly without rules or structure, yearning for independence but without a clue of how to accomplish both. It was scarey, tumultuous. Still is. We're bombarded with news and causes. Leaders were/are needed. What does one do?

    Where the f are they? All we have are (mostly) greedy politicians, con-artists, bullshit gurus and a general societal reversion to superstitions, when the idealist want ideals, philosophy, spirituality and HOPE.

    Loss of genuine hope for society and others seems worth adding.

    Scn promised these, then made life and everything about it more scarey than ever, then suddenly they are old and it's too late or hard to even think about changing. Family members have died. The scn mistreated them, neglected them, burnt bridges. Can they be mended?

    Burnt bridges and how to re-enter society.

    These are some of my thoughts. Needs some brainstorming. What do you think?

    It's not hard for me to understand.
    • Like Like x 2
  8. I was faired gamed by the cult. I think any type of Fair Game is despicable. Enter Pete Griffith:

    2yux3dk.jpg
  9. RolandRB Member

    Maybe Anonymous needs to use the "scones and tea" approach. If we had nice premises that obviously cost tens of millions of dollars got from scamming chumps then we could invite the local police constabulary over for an afternoon tea and talk about the good work we do and how there are those who would target us for terrorist attacks. In this better weather, this could be done outside in a perfectly manicured English garden maintained by child slave labour. We could wear nice suits paid for out of our spoils and that would impress the police that we were an established part of the community. If we had a few film star members who were premiering their films in the local city sometime soon then we could offer the police some free tickets for these. And if we had been hard-working and had scammed a good deal of money off the chumps then we could enquire from the police whether they knew of any deserving police charities we could make a large contribution to.

    I think we should play the cult at their own game to get the ear of the police authorities. Does that sound like a good idea? :)
  10. Anonymous Member

    Pardon me, but do you have any Grey Poupon?
  11. RolandRB Member

    Here is the latest version.

    What trapped you into the Scientology cult and what still keeps you trapped as an "Indie"

    1) Social acceptance and shunning
    Most of us like to feel we are accepted by our group. When we came across Scientology as
    a new group we were "love bombed" a lot so that we felt accepted. We formed friendships
    in this new group. Even relationships and then marriage and children. All of this held
    together with an implied adherence to Scientology. We know that if we fall out of favour
    with Scientology then we lose not only the acceptance of the group but we lose our friends,
    out spouses and the love of our children. This is more than people can bear and so we are
    careful not to fall out of line with Scientology. And when they ask for money for their
    schemes then we give them that money, even if we can not afford it, to keep is as an
    accepted member of the group and well regarded.

    2) Separation from normal society
    Scientology wishes to impose its methods on our lives and deny us access to the normal
    mores of society. We are encouraged to become separated from normal society. To do that
    then society is demonized in small ways. Like telling us it is all run by drug companies
    and psychiatrists. That the world is aberrated with people acting out their "reactive
    minds". That it is a "wog world" and the Scientology way of doing things is better. We
    are told that reading newspapers and watching TV exposes us to "entheta" and that we will
    be happier if we are not exposed to it. Scientology teaches us a different language that
    we can not use in the outside world so after a while we become separated from normal
    society and fearful of it. Our "safe" society becomes Scientology society.

    3) Repression of thinking, doubts and disagreements
    We may have thought when we were newly in that some parts of Scientology were wrong. To
    get around that they have to demonize thinking. So "thinking" becomes "figure-figure" in
    Scientology - a supposed activity of the "reactive mind". And because Scientologists want
    to go "Clear" and lose their reactive mind then they stop thinking and in so doing believe
    they are defeating their reactive minds. It is quite normal for people in society to have
    doubts. If you have doubts in Scientology and check on facts then they will lose you. So
    having doubts becomes demonized as "out ethics". To doubt is to be in a "Condition
    of Doubt" and this causes you to be shunned from the group until you have proven to the
    group that you have overcome this doubt. And there are punishments for disagreement. If
    you disagree then this means you have gone past a word you did not understand. So you have
    to pay for any spend tens of hours rereading all your Scientology material until you have
    found that word you did not understand. And there is always the e-meter to pick up on your
    disagreements with Scientology. After a year or so of this constant pressure you will cease
    to be able to be critical of Scientology. You will not even have any doubts nor be able to
    even think of anything that you are in disagreement with. And we are pressured to do course
    after course and we get so tired that we do not have the energy to think outside
    Scientology in any case. Everybody gets pressured to join staff. If you join staff and
    leave before your contract is up then there will be a huge freeloaders debt you think you
    have to pay. The trap is then complete. You can not leave even if you wanted to. You
    become a tool of the cult to trap in more people and you will work long hours for very
    little money to do just that. Add to that what is in your confessional folders. This is
    something you will not want outsiders to know about and whether it was the result of your
    imagination or not, this information can and will be used against you if the cult chooses
    to do so. The trap has been sprung and you are well and truly caught. You are now a slave
    to the cult and now it is your job to enslave new members.

    4) The hopes and promises
    We would all like immunity from colds and flu, perfect recall and immunity from accidents.
    This is the obvious positive benefits of why we joined. But the longer we stay in and
    "study" Scientology then gradually these obvious goals get replaced by other goals and the
    advantages we hoped for change. The goal posts get moved. The gains we hoped for that were
    promised to us change with time until we end up pursuing Scientology goals that we would
    never have bee interested in when we joined. The promises of Dianetics Clear was the bait.
    But then it got switched to Scientology Clear. And then if we ever got to Scientology
    Clear then we did not get the promised gains. Instead, Clear becomes s state where we
    realize we are mocking up our own reactive minds (bearing in mind that we had to be
    persuaded that there was such a thing as a "reactive mind") and our goals now become the
    powers that will open up to us on the OT Levels. Hubbard promised great things about the
    OT levels. On L12 he said that he would not let a person leave the ship unless they were
    stable exterior with full perception. This was a sky high goal. Of course, for those who
    parted with all that money, there was no such state to be attained. Scientology always
    dangles the carrot in front of us and when we reach what we have striven for the goal
    disappears and the carrot has moved onwards.
    If even 5% of the promises of Scientology were true then they would have a huge following.
    The reality is that much less than 5% is true. More like 1%.

    5) OT Powers
    Nobody has gotten OT powers from Scientology auditing in any form even after more than
    fifty years of trying. From time to time some strange things might happen but this is the
    case from religion and new age practices of all sorts. There is nothing special about
    Scientology in this regard. Out-of-body experiences used to be common in early Scientology,
    especially with the "Book and Bottle" process (Op Pro by Dup). This was an extremely
    repetitive and boring process and it would be no surprise if this had a dissociative mental
    affect on people if continued for many hours or days. People from all walks of life and all
    religions have religious experiences from time to time and believe they have transcended the
    limitations of the normal world. But NONE of these people have an ability that can be
    demonstrated on demand. If anybody had such an ability then surely the Randi million dollars
    would have been won a long time ago.
    Why not put this to the test? You will know a number of people who claim they are OTs
    and are stably exterior from their body. If this is the case then they should be able
    to read playing cards placed at the back of their heads using their thetan vision or
    telepathy or something. Ask to test it on one of these people who make the claim of
    being stably exterior. None of them will oblige because they know they can not do this.
    Belief in OT powers and the belief that one day that they will be yours to command is
    one of the things keeping you trapped in Scientology. Putting it to the test will
    disabuse you of this belief.

    6) The Axioms of Scientology
    Scientology "appears" to be scientific because it is based on axioms. But these axioms
    are starting off points rather than self-evident truths. If Scientology followed a
    scientific approach then there would come the opportunity to establish these axioms
    as truths but nobody has attempted to do this. The case in point of testing supposedly
    stably exterior people if they can read a playing card placed at the back of their heads
    is something that could have been tested. If they can read the cards then people would
    feel justified in the idea that a thetan was something separate from the body and is
    just using the body. But this fundamental building block of the system of thought has
    never been tested and never will be because people know that it would fail.
    You maybe think that because Scientology appears to be scientific then it holds some
    validity and is perhaps more "advanced" that other religions or belief systems. However,
    it is not following a scientific approach and is not honest science. The axioms are
    just being used to dress a sham.

    7) The Axioms of Dianetics
    Dianetics has a set of axioms as well and yet Dianetics is dropped in favour of
    Scientology very early on in a person's "processing". No more will you hear about the
    moments of unconsciousness where words command you. It is all unceremoniously dropped
    in favour of Scientology processing at twenty times the cost. If the axioms are good
    for Scientology then why do they get dumped for Dianetics in favour of a more expensive
    form of processing? This should make you think.

    8) Past Lives
    If you could genuinely remember past lives then there would be something of value you
    could sell to the world. If you had studied science at school in your past lives then
    you could come up with the design for a home nuclear fusion generator or an eternal
    battery or some such other obvious useful device. Even if all your past lives lacked
    a science education and you were a soldier or a slave for all your past lifetimes then
    there would still be something you could sell like card, dice or board games that you
    could remember and market today. Instead, there is nothing useful from anybody who
    claims to remember past lives. One might conclude that all these supposed past life
    memories are a fabrication.

    9) Past Lives doing Scientology
    If you are an "Indie" and remember "past lives" then at some stage you will remember
    past lives in "Scientology" or some such other system and will have encountered L. Ron
    Hubbard and/or David Miscavige in your past life efforts in working towards some sort of
    religion to free Mankind. I am happy to let you know that you are not that stupid. If this
    were the case then Scientology or whatever it was known as in your past lives would have
    been put on a scientific foundation (i.e. axioms that were proven) millions of years ago
    and from your past lives you would know what was proven and how to prove it to put the
    religion on a firm scientific basis. Oh, but you were not on tech lines! You didn't have
    the tech explained to you because you were too busy helping in other ways. Same for all
    Indies here now. None of them here were tech people so they don't know about what tech
    works. Hubbard did but for some odd reason, he got nothing to work so maybe he was full
    of shit in his past life the same as he was in this one.
    The reason you have these "memories" is because through doing "auditing" your brain has
    learned to fabricate them.

    10) How thetans got tricked and enslaved by meat body societies
    L. Ron Hubbard described the "principal incidents" that got thetans trapped. Just Google
    "incident Scientology wiki" and read up on "Aircraft Door Goals", "Bear Goals",
    "Gorilla Goals", "Train Goals" and others. Think of the logistics of this. Think of the
    industry required to accomplish this in the millions and how thetans somehow did not twig
    on that anything was wrong. How many aircraft fuselages on the ground would be needed to
    implant millions or billions of thetans? How would it be kept a secret from other thetans?
    Same with the "Bear Goals" and "Gorilla Goals" with the Hoi Poloi in striped funfare
    attendent shirts somehow strapping thetans into their seats before they take a ride and
    get zapped by electronic explosions to give them opposing commands. Just what does it
    take to get your "bullshit alarm" to go off?
    Quite apart from the nonsense story and the impossible logistics then think of how much
    money it would have cost to engage in such an activity. This is funding a civilisation
    at war. Somebody would have leant that money and wanted back payment with interest. But
    there would be no financial benefit from this activity so it does not make sense.
    And if a civilisation is that militaristic then if thetans were real then would they not
    be useful for spying on their enemies?
    Children playing with dolls spontaneously create better stories than this one. That you
    accepted this as truth implies you have weaker minds than children. Were you like that
    before you got into Scientology?

    11) Xenu and body thetans
    If you accepted the story of Xenu and body thetans then this should be a strong indicator
    that your mind has become weakened by doing Scientology. This story that adults believe
    in in Scientology is something to be laughed at by children. It is just such a weak and
    absurd story. The logistics of the movement of bodies across space with people not
    noticing people disappearing after their income tax audits is clearly absurd. The
    placement of bodies round volcanoes, some of which did not exist 75 million years ago
    and the logistics and infrastructure to accomplish this is absurd. If the bodies were
    "frozen in alcohol and glycol" then why not dump them all on a frozen body in space like
    Pluto? Each solar system likely has an ice belt so dump them there. The story is absurd
    and weak beyond believe. It is fourth rate science fiction sold expensively as spiritual
    truth. An mentally competent adult human being should be ashamed of themselves for believing
    such puerile nonsense.
    And what of the body thetans? How come they can be Cleared in seconds if we are the boss
    thetan and it takes us years? If they are real then you could send them somewhere to report
    back on what is there. You could set up a very successful line of espionage if they were
    real. You can't because, of course, they are not real. I know some Indies think that
    something like the Xenu story happened but maybe did not happen as Hubbard described but
    they go on to audit out their body thetans for hundreds or thousands of hours without
    anyone in more than fifty years establishing the validity of these body thetans.
    If you consider yourself to be mentally competent then do not let the human race down
    by believing in and practising such nonsense.

    12) The wasted years
    It may take twenty years or more and hundreds of thousands of dollars wasted before a
    person realizes that Scientology has not given them what they wanted out of life. They
    will never get that twenty years back. If the person is an intelligent person then they
    will not want to allow themselves to feel the shame of all those wasted years of their
    life. They will not see Hubbard as a liar and a con man who duped them out of their money
    and the best years of their life. It is better for their own pride if they carry on down
    the same path and justify their sacrifices. These are now your leaders and "tech terminals"
    in the Indie movement. Hopefully, you can face your decisions of the past with more honesty.

    99) The "Wog World" needs you back
    You were once a part of the "wog world". Your good intentions got you into Scientology.
    I hope you spend time thinking through the above points and see what is keeping you
    stuck in Scientology and so break those chains. The "Wog World" needs your good intentions
    and your efforts in making this world a better place and I hope that one day you will
    rejoin it.

    Copyright (C) Roland Rashleigh-Berry, May 2013. Permission is granted to anyone to
    reproduce this in any form so long as the original is used plus this copyright notice
    displayed with it.
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Indies should come here and explain why they use disconnection and wh they do with hunts on anyone that disagrees with them.
    • Dislike Dislike x 2
  13. Anyone? Ethier, Karen de la Carriere, Steve Hall, Jim Logan, Mike Rinder? Anyone??
    • Dislike Dislike x 2
  14. Anonymous Member

    Roland,

    You wanted some response from people who still drink Hubbard's Kool Aid. I'll give it a try, taking the viewpoint of those who are still slurpers. But you should know that I'm an Ex -- not an Indie, FZer or Ron's Orger. Nonetheless, I'm in touch with a fair number of Indies and correspond with them on some private blogs and IRL. I believe I see accurately how they think / talk / operate.

    NONE OF THE FOLLOWING IS ROCKET SCIENCE.

    First, I observe that still-KA-slurping Scientologists (outside the church) come in different saturations and stripes. They don't all slurp the same amount or strength of Kool-Aid. The longer they're out, the more some of them drift away. But, as you'd expect, eventually they fall along a continuum from those who peel their onions completely to those who spend the rest of their lives just resenting Miscavige for fucking up the Church.

    Next, I'm sorry to tell you this, but your little write-up will have diddly impact on any of them. Entire message boards have devoted years to helping exes peel their onions. ESMB has done a great service, and as some here have said, ESMB's a helpful place for some. Just this year, I've seen people arrived there just newly out of the church who go from resenting Miscavige to being done with Scientology completely. BTW, that's the differentiator between those who make it out and those who don't: Scientologists who talk only to other Scientologists will never make it out of the Scio hive. People who'll talk to non-Scios will make it out.

    Some barriers that keep Scientologists (churchies or indies) from leaving Scientology sooner are:

    1. Their closest friends are all indies or FZers. When they meet another Scio it's like they've found a long-lost native from their country -- same language, same values, etc. They're "home." It's comforting, familiar, safe. They're like immigrants to a new country who huddle together in the ghetto / barrio and never learn the new country's language.

    2. They have DECADES of sunk costs in Scientology. Getting them to deny that they wasted so much of their lives would rock their worlds. The psychological pain simply would be too much for many of them. This is especially true of and tough on the ones who are older when they leave the church.

    3. Getting them to think without Kool-Aid would be like trying to deprogram me from using a QWERTY keyboard. It's wired into their bodies, minds and nervous systems. What we think of as "thought stopping" is what stabilizes them whenever they are tempted to look at life differently. The more they stay together and reinforce the language and the KA-wiring, the harder it is to look at things freshly.

    4. The more you tell them they're wrong or misguided or innocent or ignorant, the more they hate hearing it and the more they avoid going onto boards or blogs where they hear that. Telling them they're wrong isn't helpful. What a shock ... NOT! Nobody likes to be told they're idiots. They don't either. Even though they are idiots.

    IMHO, it's a terrifically long and complicated process to peel the Scientology onion. I think the ones who can peel their onions are peeling their onions. The ones who don't have the stomach for it never will. I think it's in their DNA, so to speak--survival of the fittest, Darwinian and all that.

    One other thing -- you have to be incredibly patient to listen to indie Scientologists -- it will just blow your mind the things they say, think and assume. Being a missionary to these folks is not for the fainthearted. If you've never been a Scientologist, you'll probably just wind up losing your grits and screaming at them. The cult think is thicker than you could imagine.

    That's my two cents' worth.

    tl;dr - Scios who huddle together have a much harder time peeling the onion than those who don't.
    • Like Like x 2
  15. One of the top Independent Disconnectors, Michael Hobson, posted on Facebook promoting Marty Rathbun's book -- Hobson, I thought you were no squirrel!?

    [IMG]

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