Assault - Nashville: Part 2 (April 25 2009)

Assault - Nashville: Part 2 (April 25 2009)

This thread is a continuation (or a very short stub, if there's nothing more to be said) of this thread: http://forums.whyweprotest.net/283-...ault-nashville-ideal-opening-post-raid-44373/

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

Why was the other one closed again?

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

What was wrong with the original thread?

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

Might I again mention that there are other threads that have been going on for months and haven't been locked.

Biased bullshit.

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

Thread was closed due to [strike]AIDS[/strike]faggotry?

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

OR, just like other threads that have got really long, we've continued the conversation in a second thread because making mod edits to very long threads gets harder and harder as the thread gets longer and the software copes less well.

I'd really appreciate it if people assumed the best on the part of the mods and not the worst. Your bawwing and unwarranted aggression gets very tiring, frankly. (Not just addressed to Elby) We are On. The. Same. Team.

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

But if we don't assume the worst of you, the terrorists win.

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

Stupid aids and faggotry. Anyways, continuing on topic:


Any more updates? Are you guys gonna meet with the lawyer again?

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

What makes you think this is biased? I mean, the entire thread was about you and your boyfriend and everything that happened, so much so that other things that happened on that day, like Epic Intruder Guy, and those people that followed the group are being forgotten.

Yet YOU and this other guy have now one, but now two threads dedicated to what happened.

Bias? My dear, I think you misunderstand the meaning of the word.

But please go on and on about bias when the rest of your group is all but forgotten and you have the spotlight.

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

Actually, I'd like to hear some more about this bit and maybe some new pics too.

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

I would also like to hear more about the following/stalking and more from party crasher. Thanks for mentioning that. I was so busy raging over the other thing.

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

I would have pictures of the car that followed us, and possibly the guy driving, but my camera card died and the pictures are stuck on it. I'm going to take it to a comp shop to see if there's anything they can do.

We were walking back after the Incident, and noticed a car parked in one of the parkinglots. {I had noticed the same car driving in the area when I was on the phone with HT... it was a gold 4door with little yellowish blinking lights in the windshield and blinkers. Limo tint on the windshield.) It sat in the parking lot, so we decided that our ride should go to the other side of the building to get us. When we were loading stuff into the car, the gold car pulled up into the parking lot we were in and sat there while we got in the car. When we pulled away, he followed us. We ended up having to stop and close the trunk (lol stress), and when we pulled out, he got stuck behind another car. Not sure if he pulled out after us, ,but we circled around just to be sure.

Also, I won't be speaking for 44 anymore. If he's got something to say or an update to give, he'll do it for himself. I feel like I'm getting a lot of undue attention because of my trying to help him out, so I'm backing down. If I have personal updates to give, I will, but I doubt I'll have any, seeing as nothing happened to me but me being thoroughly freaked out by the whole situation. Remember, kids, it happened to 44. All I did was film it.

C:

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

Hmmm. I guess I shall have to get lost like I always do when I head back. Seriously, never fails. I've been there a dozen times and yet I get lost on the way back EVERY time.

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

yes guys. I will post if there's an update. PM me if you need something private, but I can't guarantee anything (especially all of you asking to have the video )

Also I can't stress enough that this was a group effort. Together we're just 2 lowly Anons. Lucha, Juche, Zonker, Muffincat, The Muffin Man, and several other NashAnons were and still are helping in this locally. Throw in people from the rest of the legion, and we are well on our way to justice.

These last 48 hours have been exhausting on all of us. Thank you for the support <3

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

Dead agent much?

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

Just found this on the Dallas Ideal thread.

Maybe you should be careful what you wish for.

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

Fuck it, not worth my time.

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I know, right? But fuck, I didn't mean man-handled. I just meant like... not being ignored.

We went from one polar extreme to the other.

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Fix'd. C:

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Too bad it wasn't the good kind of XTREME.

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

Back on topic.

I'm wondering whether the security guards were rent a cops or COS staffers in uniforms.

If they're rent a cops. I wonder what kind of information the cult gave them about us to make them act so violently... I would have thought rent a cops would want to avoid trouble where ever possible..

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

posting this here by request....

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

556, it's a company.

I don't think they would be allowed to provide security unless they have a license. If they were not licensed security guards, then they were definitely breaking the law by impersonating a security guard and/or police officer.

I do remember that the class to become an armed guard was something like a week long. But they were also required to have been former military or police officer.

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

tl;dr:
1: Your injuries are relevant to the false arrest, because it makes it more serious
2: Don't bet everything on a Color of Law prosecution, especially since you're white, and in Tennessee, and prosecutors don't like this statute - but Nashville isn't the worst place to try it either.

Serious business: Don't listen to the anon who said not to press charges/sue for your injuries in addition to false arrest. Bodily injury, which you sustained, is a subclass of personal injury.

Under one of the federal statutes they might be convicted by, a false arrest without bodily injury carries a maximum jail sentence of one year. Bodily injury extends that to max 10 years.
If the case can be said to kidnap, it goes up even more.

In this case, there was at least bodily injury. You weren't hurt badly, but the fact that you were hurt at all, especially when you weren't resisting the illegal arrest and given no chance to comply with the arrest, increases the time those guards potentially would spend in jail.
Personally, I don't think kidnapping applies here because he was handed over to police farily promptly - but taking him inside the cult's area might raise questions if this was a kidnap.

Some choice quotes from the FBI and the DOJ about that "Under Color of Law" statute:
Federal Bureau of Investigation - Civil Rights Statutes

(My emphasis)
Civil Rights Division Home Page

This is how the FBI and the DOJ also interprets that statute. It could, however, be argued that the whole statute is only meant to protect aliens and African Americans. So try not to base the whole prosecution on this statute alone.

And very few cases actually get prosecuted:
http://trac.syr.edu/tracreports/civright/107/

(My emphasis)
Even so Nashville was not the "worst" in declining to prosecute:

(My emphasis)

Note that the situation isn't like this just because every black person arrested accuses the officers of being nazi rasists pigs who should be executed - these statistics are declinations of cases where the investigative agencies concluded that the officials were guilty.
Or, you could say that the FBI likes the statute, but the prosecutors do not. In many of those cases, there might also be other prosecution. Let's say a cop kills a guy of a different race without cause, and the cop gets prosecuted for murder in the State of Tennessee, but the federal prosecutor doesn't bother piling on prosecuting the cop - who is going to jail anyway - with a federal crime. I think that is counted as a decline to prosecute. If, on the other hand, the state prosecutor cocks up the case and the muderer walks free, then the federal prosecutor can go back and get a life sentence or death sentence on a color of law violation, without it being counted as double jeopardy.

Just my personal opinion, and IANAL. Talk to the FBI.

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

Me again. When talking to the FBI, the Color of Law question can be brought up vis-a-vis the security guards as a long-shot strategy, but more important would be the possible interstate racketeering, and interstate conspiracy to deprive of civil rights being done by CoS.

Apart from that interstate dimension, it seems that it's state courts in Tennessee which are your main venue for both criminal prosecution and civil liability.

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

What about talking to the county AG, and failing that, the state AG? Who is over the questionable licensing system for security guards? Complaints can be filed with the police even if the police did not want to take a report. They cannot stop you from walking in and filing.

Also, I hope someone's got a lawyer giving better advice than I

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

Unfortunately, no more pictures, I was trying to be discreet and stealthy. I didn't want to seem like TOO much of an intruder.

This was my first time actually being that close to anything related to Scientology on a personal basis.

I overheard groups talking and they honestly use the terminology on a regular basis, just letting these insane, mostly made up words flow from their mouths like it was some sort of regular vocabulary taught in elementary school.

They were VERY clique-ish. There didn't seem to be much mixing of different states and everyone kinda kept to themselves. Including around me. For someone walking in with the pretense of interest and wanting to learn, no one was eager to recruit me.

Apparently they have these master plans of "clearing" the continent, as seen in t-shirts they were handing out (I wasn't able to procure one, sadly). And apparently there is a competition divided between Western and Eastern US to see who can clear their half first.

Navy blue shirts with "Race to be THE FIRST Ideal Continent!" across the back.

The food was typical catered food, continental breakfast was served before catered lunch of deli trays. Didn't eat the sammiches, but the muffins were dry as all fuck. Seriously, could have used them as lethal weapons.

They did have a registration table where people had to sign in, so, I got to use my self created alias.

Mr. Josh Taylor, Technology Director, Apeture Science.

Anyway...

Any other ?'s, let me know. I'm willing to answer what I can!

~ The Muffin Man aka Epic Infiltrator Guy

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

//insert slow clap here//

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

Fun, ain't it?

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

There is a cause for kidnapping.

Tennessee Law - False Imprisonment and Kidnapping :: Tennessee Criminal Lawyer Blog

There is no doubt he was falsely imprisoned whether or not there was a valid permit.

He was exposed to risk of bodily injury and was, in fact, injured.

Is there a case for ESPECIALLY aggravated kidnapping?

Accomplished with a deadly weapon or by display of any article used or fashioned to lead the victim to reasonably believe it to be a deadly weapon; (is the mere display of a gun in a holster enough..did any of the security touch their holster, etc)

OR

Where the victim suffers serious bodily injury. (perhaps not the case)

As for the people with hurt feelings because they aren't getting mentioned, etc....it's because Victim44 is a Victim and has the goods to nail them (at least the security guards and possibly Scientology) to the mat. Hopefully he will stand up and press it to the mat. However, it appears he is a young kid. There is nothing wrong with letting it go because he will be in for a nightmarish ride with this. One avenue is to press charges and let the civil case go or vice a versus. He has to understand well what could come his way both from cops and Scientology. No one should criticize him if he lets it go.

There is still a question as to whether AO was trespassing. There is not that problem with Victim44.

The focus on him doesn't mean that others didn't do great things...like Epic Infiltrator guy who likes muffins, etc.

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

What you quoted from there is Especially aggravated kidnapping, a class A felony, and no it probably wasn't especially aggravated.

[Edit: rummychick99 has corrected the post now.]

Victim44 was, however, if it was not a legal arrest, the victim of an aggravated kidnapping, which is a class B felony under the laws of Tennessee:

That's at least 2 out of 5.

I'm not a lawyer either.

Example:
- If you kidnap somebody while you have a hidden handgun on your person: Class B felony, aggravated kidnap.
- If you kidnap somebody without a weapon, but say "come with me or I'll take out my gun": Class B felony, aggravated kidnap.
- If you kidnap somebody at gunpoint, even if it's just a realistic-looking airsoft pistol: Class A felony, especially aggravated kidnap.

The holstered handguns make it a bit more interesting, but if they never unholstered their guns or threatened to use them, then I think this will just remain a class B felony.

What some of you have missed however is this: Victim 44 was cited with an *aggravated* tresspassing, which would have given valid cause for arrest if he had been guilty of it. Even still, the amount of force was unwarranted. And if you're right about the permits and signs, it wasn't tresspass in the first place.

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

Bizzare. They all seemed so....normal, then they start talking about "The Tech" and it's like I've walked into a foreign country!

~The Muffin Man aka Epic Infiltrator Guy

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

Sorry you are right. I am going to correct my post. I would still argue that ESPECIALLY aggravated might be applicable depending on what they did with those guns. A gun in a holster is a intimidation factor and cops often use it. I have seen them do it in the most mild of circumstances by simply touching the holster. I suspect it has even been done at protests.

Is a mere display of a gun in a holster enough? What about touching the holster? I doubt they actually took their guns out.

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

FBI Memphis

I would pay those guys a visit when 44 recovers.

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

FBI? Srsly?

/headtilt

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

Thanks.

Yes, that is an interesting question, but I don't think it should be argued that it goes from possession to brandishing just because they have visible holsters. A study of the video would need to be done, and also perhaps looking at the case law.

For example: It is reasonable to touch your holster to keep the gun secure from being taken away, but if you touch the gun as a way to intimidate, then that's another thing.

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

There you go....if no words are said and it is a touching of the hand on the holster...it could have been done for intimidation but all the person needs to do is say he was worried about it being taken away.

Victim44 needs to understand that he doesn't need to make decisions right away. All he needs to do is get the evidence secured. Primary focus is to get the charges dropped or make sure his case is ready in order to get off with a not guilty verdict. This shouldn't even go forward. His lawyer can point out the lack of a case. Hopefully, the prosecutor is not a nitwit.

The rest can come later. Statute of limitations will probably be somewhere around 2 years for most of it.

By the way, it is possible to negotiate with the security firm and their insurance company without filing a case. They are responsible for any of his legal bills that he has in order to defend himself. They might think he is bluffing and not be willing to do anything without filing a case BUT...they have to keep in mind he has reason to file charges. Keep in mind you can't be seen as trying to blackmail them.

Re: Assault - Nashville: Part 2

ITT: a lot of small details that may or may not help but that completely ignore the whole its-not-tresspassing-if-its-on-public-property-tyvm-have-a-nice-day thing. The OCD, turn it down some.