well, regarding those of you discussing alcohol addiction...let us first define EtOH (ethanol). It is considered by all chemist and the Federal Govt' to be a slow acting poisonous toxin. Not my argument but a declaration by the !999 Motor Safety Carrier Act..any vehicle with a tare weight exceeding 10,000 lbs. and transporting 1000 gals or more of ethanol must be placarded as skull and bones UN 1170 Poisonous Toxin. It is both fat and water soluable and passes into every molecular cell inside an organism. It is processed immediately by the liver as a poison. The brain! Etoh passes through the blood brain barrier which was created to protect the brain from pathogens, viruses, and such. The Insula Cortex located anterior to the basal fore brain and superior to the Nuclei Accubens, basically is the central area deep with in the brain. It's role primarily loves sensations and can send impules loads to the fore brain at 1/1000ths of a second. Current studies in Brazil indicate patients who were once dependent on nicotine after having a stroke in that region, do not return to the pathological impulses and relationship to the cravings or desires for nocotine. Bil Wilson said years ago that the problem with alcohol addiction was in the centrality of the mind. Since the complexities ot the human brain will never be known fully in our lifetime in is presumptuous to state one philosophy or treatment program is the better than others. I personally like Bill Millers MI concept but true objectiveness indicates this concept is ancient and not new as with Rogerian, even the concepts of the 12 steps are not new. Thomas Troward (The Great Lectures of Edinbourgh) states that the first rule of Heaven is order. Obviously, the Alcoholic/Addict's life is not in order...behaviour, distorted thinking, i.e. and Bill Wilson cofounder of Alcoholics Anonymous to my knowledge never remarked Alcoholism was a disease. Rather, a spiritual (pure, or higher thinking) malady or illness..drinking poison is not normal and in our society or others is a delusion that one is not doing harm to their human body. In the preface of the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous, Dr. Sillkwood says' "Men and Women essentially drink because they love the effect produced by alcohol, and even knowing it is injurious to themselves after a time they cannot differentiate the true from the false." No one in their right mind gets into an automobile thinking they will injure, kill, themselves or others. The statements made here regarding AA are mostly incorrect. I frankly don't care what works for you as long as it works. The road or path of recovery though long and hard is not a sprint but rather a marathon. The word "cure" for alcoholics/addicts is hard to swallow since when the body returns to homostasis and the thought one can go back to controled drinking is just not correct regarding simple medical knowledge. Some recommended reading is by Ernest Kurtz Ph.D. on Guilt and Shame. I have tried to keep an open mind here regarding the Baldwin Research Institute and I can accept 20 % but alot of it is simple not true. Such comments regarding AA as dogma or religious cult is also incorrect. Psychoactive agents and EtOH simply create disorder in all living organisms' I could only gradually get sober and achieve genuine sobriety through the twelve priciples of AA. All planes, ships at sea, all things must have rules to operate correctly and since people drink for various co-occuring disorders it makes sense to stay with something that is working. I have been returned to sound judgement, family, (not perfect) but better and have developed through hard work to take these priciples into me and put them into action. I wish you all well and to 2X former guest...your a kick and hit it right on the head that we alcoholics are selfish and self-centered. I believe alcoholism is a learned behaviour by the ism's we develop and can be un learned by the social group power of a benelovent fellowship of any kind and loving human beings not just AA.