BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

Discussion in 'Marc Headley v. Church of Scientology Internationa' started by Anonymous, Aug 9, 2009.

  1. Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    Video presentations.

    A cop-out, but nobody will complain...
  2. Anonymous Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    Nine moar points!

  3. happy feet Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    Hey FUCKFACE, I did read the entire thread.

    I may have misunderstood dismissing the CA laws and still leaving federal human trafficking violations. I haven't read the federal law. My understanding is that without a finding of criminal guilt, the only thing a civil court can do is issue an order of protection.

    {edit- actually I don't think a federal trafficking was covered in the initial complain}
  4. A.Non Hubbard Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

  5. Anonymous Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    Riiiight. Anyways, what does Miscavige have to be so afraid of? This is about as far from a slam dunk case as you can get. People seem to be getting way ahead of themselves. This isn't some epic event. The judge just agreed not to toss the entire case. That doesn't even necessarily mean this is a good case- it just means it has legal merit. Before everyone starts trading DM prison rape fantasies perhaps they should wait to see whether or not he'll even be named as a defendant and whether or not the government will decide to file charges.

    Even if Miscavige does get named as a defendant and even if he's facing jail time, there is verry little in this man's behavior to suggest that he would run. The dude is incredibly arrogant. I doubt he'd allow himself to be frightened by a lawsuit from a lowly wog. DM seems the type to arrogantly maintain his greatness even if everything were to come crashing down around him.

    Lol i love it when people so emphatically embarrass themselves.

    Maybe you should grow a pair?
  6. AnonymousNow Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    The importance of this case has been discussed at length by multiple legal anon. The non legal anon should quit trying to be armchair lawyers and read the thread.
  7. happy feet Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    I re-read the April complaint and there was reference to the federal human trafficking.

     52) Pursuant to 18 USC §§1593 and 1595, Plaintiff has a 
    private cause of action under the Federal Human Trafficking laws, 
    including 18 USC §1589 “Forced Labor”, on which Plaintiff may 
    recover the full amount of his loss, including payment at minimum 
    wage and for overtime and reasonable attorneys fees. 
    53) The private cause of action for forced labor under 18 
    USC §§1589, 1593 and 1595 does not have a statute of limitation 
    provision in the Federal Human Trafficking law.  In that 
    circumstance, state procedural law applies and sets the 
    appropriate statute of limitation rule.  See, 3 Witkin Procedure, 
    “Actions” §58. 

    USC §§1593 states "the court shall order restitution for any offense under this chapter."

    USC §§1595 states "An individual who is a victim of a violation of section 1589, 1590, or 1591 of this chapter may bring a civil action against the perpetrator in an appropriate district court of the United States and may recover damages and reasonable attorneys fees."
  8. Anonymous Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    Is this, being a civil action (not a state one), actually able to convict anyone or does it all go as damages?

    On another note, Colombia were best buds with america last I knew. If someone in government wants someone they'll get him.
  9. Anonymous Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    I wonder if Davey will start up his anti-drug/Narconon crap in Colombia. That would be lulz beyond lulz.
  10. NCSP Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    Just like the Commodore! I'll bring the bennies!
  11. blownforgood Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    Just wanted to say that I did not start this thread. I was too busy posting pictures of me dressed up like Jesus!

    Until next time...
  12. Avery1 Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    I lolled.
  13. Anonymous Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    When you bring a case to court if you win you get money. If you make a complaint the gov. takes it to court and people go to jail if they loose. This case is about money.
  14. RosyGlass Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    I for one understand that in the end it Must Be about the money, to bring this all down. Yes, there are many other crimes and issues and yes, there should be various governmental agencies investigating, and blah blah blah.

    This cult is all about money and it will be all about money that will bring it down.
    We live in a society and culture where it is all about money, period, and you and I all know it. I'm tired and weary of being upset that in the U.S. our govt agencies do nothing about this crappola. Keep protesting, posting and speaking up so that our ever elusive legislators and judges know we will not reelect them if they continue to support these Scientology fronts.
  15. Anonymous Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    Nope. No convictions or jail time. Which is why people might want to chill on the david miscavige / cellmate bubba slashfic.
  16. Anonymous Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    Or at least make it into a manga slashfic so we can sell it at winter comiket. (hint hint hint)
  17. Anonymous Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    /r/ pictures of you dressed up like Xenu.

    Xenu is the deliverer of the cult's slaves. LET MY THETANS GO
  18. Anonymous Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    so sorry, I was distracted by the words 'Columbia' and 'best buds' in a previous post....

    oh yeah..

    New nic for ya BFG..from one of the Gawker comments:
  19. tikk Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    The case was 'removed' from state court by CSI's motion. A defendant can remove a case to federal court if the plaintiff could have filed the case in federal court to begin with (i.e., if there was a federal issue). The initial complaint does discuss the federal human trafficking statute as I recall, but doesn't allege a violation specifically under it. When the case was removed, the court appears to have converted the state claim to its federal analogue, while dismissing the state claim on SOL grounds.

    I think you're unnecessarily blending the federal/state distinction with the civil/criminal distinction, however. This is still a civil case, just as it was in state court. But federal 18 U.S.C. § 1595 permits civil litigants to recover damages for human trafficking. California has a similar statute. Now, this doesn't mean that Scientology is being prosecuted for human trafficking, but they are indeed going to trial for human trafficking.
  20. anonhuff Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    quoting this so that happy feet has to read it twice before he responds again, if reading the thread before posting is a true claim

  21. Anonymous Member

  22. happy feet Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    Yes it does, I quoted from the actual complaint about ten posts above this one. Sounds like someone needs to read the thread before the respond.

    Hmm, as you will see I already responded as to why I read the thread in the first place and was mistaken. I also posted and included the federal trafficking complaint and US Code relevant to the civil tort. You'll also see there are two more post that did exactly what you did, but maybe you didn't read those either. Maybe you should read the thread before you post in big red letters, if you are going to bitch about my post.

    If you want to fault me for my post, fine, but quit with this bullshit that I didn't read the thread.
  23. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    So this thread is tldr can some one start a new one with just what the outcome of this is and timelines for things to happen.


    BFG case

    Federal Civil trial is about blah blah blah
    State Civil trial is about blah blah
    Next date for shit to happen is xyz

    With the blah blah being exactly what the lawyers dudes have said it is.

    It be awesome. I'm a total lazy cunt and this thread seems awesome but no way to tell with all the bawwwwing about mods being idiots.
  24. AnonyMary Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    Hi Barry,

    Although you have generously summerized the outcome of the latest rulings for us here, you humbly omit the efforts and hard work you have put into arguing the multiple motions the church rapidly threw at the court in attempting to thwart this and the other lawsuits. The pressure of short the time frames you have had to work within and the amount of research and compilation you have had to do to counter the church's motion attacks in the 3 different lawsuits ( a typical hyperlitigious CoS strategy) could be daunting to the average attorney but you have been taking this in stride, one step to ward progress, after another.

    You really deserve kudos for your work on this latest round. I'm glad the judge ruled the CoS motion on attorney fees was denied. When you win the case, that will come in handy :) You deserve it.

    The lawyers for the defendents have tried everything they could to stop the progress of these case and for the most part, they have failed so far. Thats progress in the grand scheme of things in the fight against scientology in the courts. Enjoy your wins on Marc's case so far. The church is quite pissed off, I'm sure. " Progress is a nice word. But change is its motivator. And change has its enemies.” (Robert F. Kennedy ) . Don't we all know that!

    "It behooves every man to remember that the work of the critic is of altogether secondary importance, and that, in the end, progress is accomplished by the man who does things. " Theodore Roosevelt

    Keep up the good work!

    For people who don't know what Rule 26 is:
    Federal Rules of Civil Procedure (12/1/2007) RULE 26. DUTY TO DISCLOSE; GENERAL PROVISIONS GOVERNING DISCOVERY

    Mary McConnell
  25. happy feet Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    BVS will post a new thread after Claire's case ruling.
    Both parties have to agree to a discovery schedule and plan and file with judge.
    (that could take awhile if they can't reach agreements, and BVS alluded to a motion about including DM in discovery)
    Some depositions set for later this month.
  26. Anonynamefag Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    Hey, this is just an idea I'm throwing out there, take what you want.

    Would it be possible to sue Co$ for false advertising? They always say that their courses can fix you, and then the NOTs thing says that Scientology can cure any disease. They also say that being Clear means you'll never get sick.

    This is advertising, period. They advertise a product (or in this case, a service), which they say will have X effect. It doesn't. They collect money for their service, and the service doesn't have the advertised benefit.

    If a case were to be won against the Co$ for false advertising, that'd be a huge black mark on them being a business, and they'd have to change their advertising campaigns.
  27. Anonymous Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    Off-topic for this thread. You should start a new thread, because there ARE answers to you, here.
  28. muldrake Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    Here's a couple dox.

    Note, these were both acquired and shared via a new Firefox plugin called RECAP started by Ed Felten, who I personally verify as a major Mensch. If you are a PACER user, it automatically uploads anything you download to the public archive, and on top of that, puts a link (an R) next to any document you're considering downloading, letting you know someone else has already downloaded that dox.

    Makes it much easier to DOX before shutting TFU.
  29. OTBT Member

  30. Anonymous Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    This post is absolute gold in two respects.

    1. It contains the wording of the judgment in Marc's case handed down on 12 August.
    2. The RECAP plugin is revolutionary and will save people time and money.
  31. Dylar Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    I haven't read so much hardcore legaleese in a long time. I believe I just came.
  32. Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    Excellent progress.
  33. Anonymous Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    The import of this judgment:

    Motion to Dismiss

    NB. The court will dismiss a claim if it cannot be successful, even if all the facts pleaded were proven at trial.

    1. Illegal and Unfair Business Practices

    Claims for all but the last month of Marc's 15 years in the Sea Org are barred by the statute of limitations. However, Marc's complaint pleads facts about Scientology's own behaviour which may justify a finding by the court that Scientology are estopped from pleading the statute of limitations (ie. equitable estoppel). Marc's claim not dismissed.

    2. Minimum Wage and Overtime Claims

    These claims are all time barred, as the limitation period is three years and expired early January 2008. However, the equitable estoppel claim might be successful. Marc's claim not dismissed.

    3. Forced Labor - California Civil Code The California statute came into operation on 1 January 2006 and so does not apply to the period Marc worked for the Sea Org. Marc's claim dismissed.

    4. Forced Labor - California Common Law California law has recognised no common law tort in relation to forced labour. Marc's claim dismissed.

    5. Forced Labor - California Constitution The California Constitution prohibits involuntary servitude. The statutory limitation period is one or three years and has expired. However, the motion to dismiss is denied on the same basis as those above - equitable estoppel. Marc's claim not dismissed.

    6. The Federal Trafficking and Violence Protection Act Between 28 October 2000 and 23 December 2008, the TVPA had a limitation period of four years. Since, 23 December 2008, the limitation period is ten years. That means that claims that accrued from 23 December 2004 had their limitation period extended to ten years.

    The time limit on those of Marc's claims between 23 December 2004 and January 2005 is extended to ten years.

    Marc's claims concern events between 1996 and January 2005. What about the actions of the CoS before 23 December 2004? The court found that the allegations were analogous to a "hostile work environment" claim, meaning that they are part of a single continuing violation and the ten year limitation period applies to the entire claim.

    Marc's claim not dismissed.

    This judgment did NOT address Marc's claim for summary judgment.
  34. NCSP Member

  35. Anonymous Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    I still can't figure out a plain English explanation for 'Estoppel'
  36. NCSP Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    Wikipedia. The article is a bit technical but you'll get there.
  37. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    Have my internet babies.
  38. J. Swift Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    Barry, you hit the nail right on the head: DM claims credit for everything and so he should be an as named. In your motion can you also re-open the argument that DM is the managing agent of CoS, this although he attempts to legally decouple himself via RTC? Technically, RTC licenses and authorizes CoS to use LRH scriptures (and this includes all LRH policies) and the policies create the SO. Ergo, DM/RTC have licensed CoS to create SO. Is that a correct assumption? It is interesting to watch DM be Cult Leader at all of the events and then claim to be a remote functionary, a Legal BT if you will, when it comes to lawsuits. On a related note: Is it true that Monique still breastfeeds DM or has that stopped?

  39. tikk Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    In as plain English as possible: estoppel is an expansive doctrine used in many contexts whereby a party making an argument or defense is legally prevented (estopped) from making that argument/defense if the argument/defense contradicts what has already been said or claimed.

    In this case, what it means is that many of CSI's Statute of Limitation arguments fail, as a matter of law, because Headley alleges that he was prevented from escaping Gold (in a motion to dismiss the Court effectively views allegations as true--whether they're true or not is a matter to be tried).

    To use a more obvious example, if the statute of frauds on theft is 6 years, and I stole from you but actively concealed my stealing by, say, creating fake account statements... and you sued me 7 years after the fact, I'd be estopped from raising a statute of limitations defense because, well, it would be inherently and obviously unfair. It's all a bit more complex than that, but that's the operating principle.
  40. Anonymous Member

    Re: BFG and CSI Judgment Is In

    Thank you for the explanation.

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