Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

Discussion in 'Projects' started by RightOn, Jun 26, 2009.

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  1. Anonymous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    ^^^^^^^^ See how much time you could have been working on the Wiki?
  2. Boggle Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Just looked at the Wiki list. It's not yet been updated with the names newly listed here.
  3. Lorelei Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out


  4. Lorelei Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Leave it here. Mirror it there.

    Since RightOn graciously took point on this huge project, our goal should be to NOT add to the thankless task of sorting out duplicates and verifying and checking spelling, etc.

    Whichever Anons wish to take the reins on the Wiki version should not be discouraged, but new updates should be gathered from this point (see a dozen links to this thread below?) and THEN disseminated to the Wiki.

    Also, some busy folks do not have time to babysit / contribute to / keep an eye on yet another website every day. I can haz wiki skills, but not everyone does, nor will they take the time to learn them. Make it EASY for people to contribute; anyone can post Anonymously here on WWP without many hoops to jump through.

  5. Anonymous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    I have no idea why RightOn hate's the Wiki...they should move on with the tide of the times lol...Right On should be the keeper of that page
  6. re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    I whole heartedly agree with both of your posts. Right on is willing to keep updating the list here. Anyone can take names from this list and post them to the wiki. The only problem I see is that if the wiki starts getting updated by people instead of getting posted here. Then there will start to be discrepancies. But I say we try it and see what happens.
  7. auchraw Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Thank you. He has a sense of humour, so can't be a troll.
  8. RightOn Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    oh dear.. I don't hate the Wiki LOL
    I think the Wiki is a great idea.

    But I think the list on the Wiki can be updated from here, thats all.
    And I really didn't have interest on working on the list on the Wiki. I have a system that I like to follow here. I thought I would just bite the bullet and edit the wiki, but I have to be honest and say I really don't want to. Maybe that may change... but for now, I just wanted to do it here. But I will still help in hunting for new names to add to the list of course. :)

    I just dont' want the list to get scewed up over there and dumped once people lose interest, and I liked having it here because this is where people hang out.

    The list is at 400 here, and any new names I was going to add, I was going to keep a running tally. I think thay may be a tad harder to do on the Wiki with people adding names left and right?

    If the list gets too screwed up over there, or just left to die, I guess it can always come back here? right?

    Again... I want what the majority of the people think is best.
    It's in the hands of the hive now to decide.
    I have to go along with what people think is the best.
  9. RightOn Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    no you
    since anyone an can edit the Wiki, its wide open...... just sayin'

  10. anon1mous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    With all due respect RightOn, this point is moot if:
    * Enough people are watching and moderating the wiki (I know I am).
    * Registration is required, so 80% of the would-be trolls can be weeded out.
    * There are administrators who can quickly detect malignant behavior (We currently have 5).
    * There hasn't been a single troll yet, since the wiki has opened.

    As much as RightOn has helped by moderating the list, consider a few potential problems with having one person solely designated as the maintainer of this list:
    * What if that person has a family emergency and can't handle the list for a couple of weeks at a time?
    * What if Scientology puts their resources into tracking down that one individual?
    * Why be bound by one person who handles all the formatting, verification, and updating?
    * Why not open ourselves up to improvement on a massive (hive) scale?
    * Why not allow Anonymous to do what it does best? (finding and sharing information)

    Here's a practical example of how the wiki could help. In your OP, there are some formatting inconsistencies. These are easily fixed with enough people willing to fix it, but in the current paradigm they need to send it through to you for you to update it. There are many such improvements that could happen if the list were simply left open (such as adding position in scientology, years in, links, etc).

    In the last five days, there have been some very cool projects which have turned up spontaneously on the wiki: such as Scientology lawyers, Ordinance 884, Reports of assault against protesters, ‎Worldwide headcounts 2008, ‎Personal experience and Fair game, Jett Travolta. None of these have been tampered with adversely to date.

    To argue that by allowing more people to edit it, interest could be lost seems a bit illogical. I think it's much more logical to say that if only one person updates it, that person could lose interest or the ability to update the list, hindering further progress.
  11. RightOn Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    You mistook what I said, when I meant by ANYONE can edit, I meant any member of WWP..... I wasn't talking about trolls.
    I was also responding to the person who said "see all this time, and you could have been editing the wiki",
    I was telling them that THEY can edit it also.

    Yes you have some valid reasons why the list should be on the wiki, and I only wanted the poll because some people were not totally on board completeley with the wiki, according to comments that were left.
    And I felt it was best for everyone to decide. I think the wiki is great for many, many things.

    As far as the list having mistakes, I was trying to get as many names as I could listed before going back and tweaking and making corrections on the list.

    I just wanted the list more or less set before I would start polishing and correcting it. After all this only started a few weeks ago. I didn' t realize that this was going to go in this direction so fast.

    So it's up to the hive to decide.
    Please let people comment and leaves suggestions without being jumped on.

    I am not jumping on every comment and trying to convince people which way to go.
    I am interested in whats best and what the majority wants. I did give my opinion. But when people comment or leave a suggestion for the list, I leave it for the hive to decide if that comment or suggestion is what people want or what they agree with. :)

    again....Which ever way the hive wants to go, than that's the way I go.
  12. RightOn Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Also, posted this question on the poll thread, maybe someone can answer.

    Question..... I did a search for the title of the list on Google:
    List of ex-Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out
    The wiki doesn't come up at all, at least on the first page. Didn't check the 2nd page
    Check for yourself.

    My question is.... how prominent will the wiki be in a google search?
    I know it's brand new, and I am not a computer savy person at all.... but how long will it take for it to come up on the first page of Google?
    Or is this a dumb question?
  13. anon1mous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    I have replied to that here. And rest assured that no question is dumb.
  14. RightOn Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Again, thanks for answering and clearing thigs up, but I didn't see the wiki at the end of the search page on google.
  15. anon1mous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Reply to that is here.
  16. Anonymous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    You say let the hive decide then you don't fall in line. You just need some KRC with the wiki and all will be good again.
  17. RightOn Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    You say I don't fall in line.... why?
    If the vote goes for the wiki, than I will still continue to contribute and find names for the list. Since others will be able to edit and add names to the wiki... then let those who enjoy the wiki and those who know how will add the names to it.
    Simple right? I am sure there are lots of people who will add names here to be added to the list who don't want to do the wiki.
    Doesn't matter. Whomever wants to wiki.... will,
    whoever doesn't want to.. won't.
    As long as the names get added
  18. anon1mous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    RightOn has been extremely cooperative and has shown numerous times that he wants nothing more than to do what the community thinks is best. He suggested creating a poll as a possible means to come to a consensus, so we will see what happens.
  19. Anonymous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Now the wiki is locked. Righton maybe you can start a new website like wikipedia but it uses a sub-par system like these forums because you're right it IS way better.

    In fact, I am going to write wikipedia a strongly worded thread and send them the link right now. Would you like to view it and maybe make any changes before it sent it? OH THAT'S RIGHT YOU CAN'T!
  20. re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    If you had any balls, you wouldn't post this anonymously.

    Or maybe that's the whole point of Anonymous. Hmmm...
  21. anon1mous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Sigh, the wiki is probably locked so that effort is not duplicated unnecessarily during this transition. I suggest you either drop your anonymity and and bring forward a legitimate concern (here) or GTFO.
  22. pooks Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    No. Anonymity is an important tool in the fight against tyranny.

    Anonymity | Electronic Frontier Foundation


    Many people don't want the things they say online to be connected with their offline identities. They may be concerned about political or economic retribution, harassment, or even threats to their lives. Whistleblowers report news that companies and governments would prefer to suppress; human rights workers struggle against repressive governments; parents try to create a safe way for children to explore; victims of domestic violence attempt to rebuild their lives where abusers cannot follow.

    Instead of using their true names to communicate, these people choose to speak using pseudonyms (assumed names) or anonymously (no name at all). For these individuals and the organizations that support them, secure anonymity is critical. It may literally save lives.

    Anonymous communications have an important place in our political and social discourse. The Supreme Court has ruled repeatedly that the right to anonymous free speech is protected by the First Amendment. A much-cited 1995 Supreme Court ruling in McIntyre v. Ohio Elections Commission reads:

    Protections for anonymous speech are vital to democratic discourse. Allowing dissenters to shield their identities frees them to express critical, minority views . . . Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority. . . . It thus exemplifies the purpose behind the Bill of Rights, and of the First Amendment in particular: to protect unpopular individuals from retaliation . . . at the hand of an intolerant society.

    The tradition of anonymous speech is older than the United States. Founders Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, and John Jay wrote the Federalist Papers under the pseudonym "Publius," and "the Federal Farmer" spoke up in rebuttal. The US Supreme Court has repeatedly recognized rights to speak anonymously derived from the First Amendment.

    The right to anonymous speech is also protected well beyond the printed page. Thus, in 2002, the Supreme Court struck down a law requiring proselytizers to register their true names with the Mayor's office before going door-to-door.

    These long-standing rights to anonymity and the protections it affords are critically important for the Internet. As the Supreme Court has recognized, the Internet offers a new and powerful democratic forum in which anyone can become a "pamphleteer" or "a town crier with a voice that resonates farther than it could from any soapbox."

    The Electronic Frontier Foundation has been involved in the fight to protect the rights of anonymous speakers online. As one court observed, in a case handled by EFF along with the ACLU of Washington, "[T]he free exchange of ideas on the Internet is driven in large part by the ability of Internet users to communicate anonymously."

    We've challenged many efforts to impede anonymous communication, both in the courts or the legislatures. We also previously provided financial support to the developers of Tor, an anonymous Internet communications system. By combining legal and policy work with technical tools, we hope to maintain the Internet's ability to serve as a vehicle for free expression.
  23. RightOn Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    I posted this on the poll thread also...

    ok.... just got done with a hellish work day....
    My feelings, if anyone cares.
    The poll was made because some people were expressing some doubts about the wiki.
    I certainly did not want all this arguing to insue.

    I made a list and was very happy with it here and adding names after they were checked out and such... and the mods said that if the charachter count exceeded the first post, that they would hijack post 2, and even 3 and 4 if needed to continue the list.
    So I thought everything was fine...more names were coming in, and it was cool.

    Then along came the wiki ....which at first I was happy to see, than after thinking about it, and talking to a freind that said he has seen Wikis die and one from his work that took a crazy amount of work and that everyone was excited about at first, but then people lost interest in it and then it died.
    So this worried me.
    On one hand I am willing to of course go with the majority of the vote if people want the list to now only be updated on the wiki.On the other hand I would still feel bad if it got trashed or dies.

    Do I think it will get trashed? maybe not in the beginning, but yes, I think it will get trashed, and much time will be spent trying to correct what people did rather than listing names.

    Do I want my hard work going down the tubes? no.

    Do I want to list on the Wiki? YES.... of course....but if its update here first. I thought I would put the names on the wiki myself at first..... but I have decided not to.

    I just thought if I can do the list here , and then have anyone who likes or wants to wiki update it there, all would be fine.

    Is it good that I am the only one to update the list here? maybe not. But I at least I am reliable, and I am not going anywhere, AND I can work on it while at work.

    Do I think people will go there and hang out? no.

    Do I think people will visit the wiki?I don't know. Not really up on that stuff. I find most people don't know much about wikis.

    So.... I would like to continue to add names here. And whoever wants to add them to the Wiki they can.

    As far as a medical emergency or vacation? yes of course those will happen. I am sure the mods can take the thread over if they want in case of an emergency.... but I really don't understand what the emergency would be?
    I mean if names can't be added for 2 weeks is that an emergency? Besides, I was planning on adding the majortiy of the names as I get to them on a daily basis when I can.... names will only be coming in dribs and drabs after that. I would assume.

    As far as someone mentioned to take the votes away of the mods and myself off the poll? Fine with me. I only want whats fair.
    so.... as it stands, I don't want to wiki, I want to update here, and people can update over on the wiki.
    I am NOT trying to leaderfag or step in the way of progress. But that is my opinion, and what I feel comfortable doing.

    If the vote goes to the Wiki.....I will continue to add names here in the posts like they can be transferred over to the wiki by all that edit over there.

    Please lets not argue. All comments and suggestions should be viewed and discussed by the community. Not argued by people who created the wiki. Seem fair?

    If we can't come to a solution very soon, I would be glad to start tomorrow addding the names to the list HERE,as to not waste any more time. Whoever wants to put them over on the wiki can fee free to do so.
    I hope I havn't disapointed anyone. I am just trying to be fair, and I really don't think it is fair to try to force me to work on the list on the wiki when I don't care to.

    I also will be VERY sad to see the list get trashed in any way or die when and if people lose interest.
  24. themadhair Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Lrn2wiki. This has already been discussed and isn't a problem.
  25. RightOn Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    I am sorry, I don't want to do the wiki. But others are free to do so.
  26. Anonymous Member

  27. re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    That's not what I meant. I meant posting anonymously as opposed to posting under your username, in which you are still anonymous. I don't know why some people post inflammatory things without at least doing it under their username.

    That's all. Back to regularly scheduled discussion about thread vs. wiki.
  28. carsondude Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    I thought this site was down. Glad to see its still up/\
  29. Anonymous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Ok, we get that you don't want to do the wiki, then don't. Stop saying that you will do whatever the hive wants, then when the vote doesn't go your way you back pedal. Just say what you want and move on. Right now you're giving reasons and problems that have not come up yet. It is like me stating that XENU hates wikis and will delete the whole thing. Why not wait for Xenu to show up before we use it as a reason to give up on the project.

    I was updating the wiki when it got locked and I feel that we're now being counter productive waiting for this poll to close.

    So how about this idea, everyone update the wiki Righton can check anything added and post in here if he likes (there is a wiki history you can lurk to see any and all changes).

    But at this rate the list is never going to be done, it has been a whole month and I know the list almost doubled, but I feel it could be a lot closer to being done if everyone worked together on it.

    And to everyone who hates me posting anonymous, NO U GTFO and post over at ESMB and stop being an egofag.
  30. RightOn Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    I don't understand why you say I am "back pedaling"
    I said I will go with what the hive wants, and that is true. If all want the wiki, then it will be the wiki. I will respect that decision. I just don't want to add names on the wiki or maintain it.
    So you or whomever can add the names ot the wiki if they want.

    You say:
    " say what you want and move on"

    I thought that is what I did in my earlier post.

    I worked for over an hour looking names up and verifying links and positions ect.... today after I got out of work. So it's not like nothing is being done.

    I am still working to make this list grow, I just don't want to wiki.
    Let those who want to do it , do it. ok?

    And as far as me giving reasons that have not come up yet?
    People also gave reasons that haven't come up yet with keeping the list here.

    If the vote goes to the wiki and it fails there, or goes too slow, and people aren't satisfied.....then I will glady take it back here.
  31. TinyDancer Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    The longer the wiki page is kept closed, the more work will be needed just to catch up with all the changes made here.
  32. RightOn Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    I am not doing any updates or changes on the list LIVE.
    I am keeping the changes, updates, and new names that I have verified in a log.
    The list is still at 400 the way I left it with no updates.
  33. Lorelei Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    And that is the bottom line, isn't it?

    Stop demanding that people who are doing something useful stop their progress to argue with you about why they don't want to do it YOUR way. If YOU like the Wiki, YOU update it (once it is unlocked and open for editing again, anyway).

    Have any new names been added to this list, or is everyone wasting their time arguing that RightOn should be thrilled to be volunteered to do something that will take yet more time away from data gathering and sorting?

    Seriously, you couldn't have derailed progress any more efficiently if you tried, and your intentions were, I assume, GOOD.
  34. Anonymous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Alright, wiki administrator here.

    I had locked the page because I didn't want anyone to lose hard work contributed if we were going to go back to the old way of doing things (having RightOn update the OP here).

    Since the poll has showed an overwhelming support of somehow using the wiki, and I've received a few requests to unlock it, I will. Let's get on the ball here and show people what can be done, and get this list up to date.

    Let's de-derail this thread and get working.

    Here's the deal:
    1. Wiki page was initially imported 17 July 2009, with some edits between then and now.
    2. OP was last updated 3 days ago (27 July 2009).
    3. I have painstakingly reconciled the wiki changes with the OP, and added new names to the wiki, bringing the name count up to 404. (If you'd like to see all the changes that happened between the last revision of the wiki and when I reconciled it, cilck here).
    4. RightOn has mentioned that after post #497, he has not added or verified those names: that is where to start adding new names to the wiki.
    5. To make things easier, I will quote any post which added a name to this thread since #497 (on next post) up until this post (#634 on 27 Jully 2009).
    6. Let's get started!
  35. Anonymous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Epic mega quote:

  36. anon1mous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Thanks for the update, Anon.

    Oh, and for those that are unfamiliar with wiki syntax:

    It isn't too difficult to pick up. An asterisk (*) is a bullet, and putting a link in brackets ([ and ]) will automatically make it a hyperlink. If you put a description after the link within the brackets (i.e. [ This is microsoft]), it will make a link that says This is microsoft. Using triple quotation marks makes text bold (i.e. '''Bolded text''').

    That's about all you need to know to update this list on the wiki.
  37. RightOn Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Just so you know.... and not to confuse....
    ON this chunk of names, I verified them, and added more info by reading the link except for Dick Peterson(he's verified, but didn't add anything to his name)

    Andrew Boone
    Carol Garrity
    Janie Peterson
    Dick Peterson

    Las Vegas Review Journal Ex-Scientologists Express Bitterness

    Originally Posted by Anonymous

    Truman Bolinger
    Michael Dearing
    Lucy Garritano
    James Gervais
    Lee Lawrence Sr.
    Bill Lendriet
    Sandra Wyninger
    Tim Swanson
    Tom Wright
    Chris Tyler

    The above also serves as a link for:
    Susan Simmel
    Valerie Stansfield


    The following names were already on the list here,
    some are already on the Wiki: But additional info must be added

    Janie Peterson -staff, she left after 5 years
    Gerry Armstrong- left after 10 years, Sea Org
    Paul Simmel- left after 15 years, Old OT VII,GO,receptionist plant, San Francisco, CA.Adffidavit
    Susan Simmel-left after 15 yeasr?,staff,recepetionist plant Guardian's Office,San Francisco,CA
    Scott Yeager- left after 5 years, Portland, OR.Affidavit
    Valerie Stanfield- left after 22 years,Affidavit
    Suzette Dearing- left after 8 years, staff,Mission Of Davis, Sacremento, Ca
    Jerry Whitfield- left after 10 years, Affidavit
    Kathy Raine- Elmira,NY Afidavit
    Lucy Garritano- left after 6 years, Boston,Mass. Affidavit
    Bob Penny- Affidavit -already on wiki
    Greg Marlowe-left after 3 years,Passedena, Ca
    Carrol Garrity-left after 5 years, Guardian's Office,
    Yolanda Howell- left after 15 years,St. Lake City Utah,Sea Org, AOLA Las Angeles, CA,OT
    Hank Levin-Affidavit
    Ed Walters, left after 9 years,Class VIII Auditor,Las Vegas,NV,Affidavit

    THESE NAMES ARE NEWLY VERIFIED, they are not listed on the WWP master
    Lee Lawrence Sr.-left after 12 years, Affidavit
    Susan Yeager-
    Michael Flynn- Affidavit

    Sandra Wyninger- left in '77, OTII, Affidavit
    David Wyninger- ?
    Steven Garritano- left after 3 years,Boston and Flagg staff, Affidavit
    Tom Wright-left after 4 years,Affidavit
    Reben Hart aka Robert Hart-attempted suicide,NOTS,staff,Celebrity Center, Vancouver, Affidavit
    Susan Simmel-Affidavit

    Truman Bolinger-left after 6 years,L10, Lll and L12,OT III,Phoenix,Flag, Affidavit
    Jim Bebe- affidavit
    Bill Lendreit-left after 15 years, Phoenix Az,Affidavit
    Tim Swanson-left after 2 years,Seattle,Los Angeles, Ca
    Chris Taylor- left after 6 years,Sea Org,Los Angeles,declared
  38. RightOn Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    One name I want to add to the master here will be Anon Sparrows. He PM'd me last week while I was on vaccation with his info before everything stopped here.

    Since he is an Anon, I think his name should appear on the master here.

    So that is the only NEW name I will be adding to the master list here.
    All other names or info I get will be posted, so someone can add it to the wiki.
  39. anon1mous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Alright, I've started cleaning up the format a bit. Several things were done:

    * Using a consistent name delimiter (spaced tabs after names)
    * Moving the "time in" to always be the first piece of information shown.
    * Changed "time in" format to always read "left after x years"
    * Bolded the "time in". I think it's pretty neat to do this, because it quickly highlights that these were members of stature, having been in so long.

    As far as filling in information, I would give "time in" a higher priority to fill than "position in Scientology", because the amount of time spent in Scientology is a definite indicator of how long a member was in "good" standing. These are not your everyday SPs that the average member thinks are out to get them, which we can illustrate quite well with this list.
  40. RightOn Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    POST # 501- These names have been checked and verified,corrected,link or more info added to their names:

    Gary Fry- His last name is "Fryer" not Fry

    Scientology in the UK Media: Archived news item

    NEW NAME- John Simpson- Scientology in the UK Media: Archived news item

    add link to Martine Boubil- Martine Boublil

    Leo Swart-left after 20 years,
    Michael Meisner- left after 4 years?,GO,Assistant Guardian for Information in the District of Columbia,Branch II Director of the Information Bureau,trained earlier in Illinois,MO, I - The Witness Michael Meisne
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