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Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

Discussion in 'Projects' started by RightOn, Jun 26, 2009.

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  1. Anonymous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    holy crap, how have i never seen Through The Door before?

    what an awesome project.
  2. alexm Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Thanks allot, whoever you are. :D
  3. Anonymous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    correct spelling: Lawrence Wollersheim
  4. A.Non Hubbard Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    I think we need more evidence of Wiseman blowing.
  5. JohnnyRUClear Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Well, we couldn't get any less....
  6. fitch2000 Member

  7. Anonymous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Jim Dimcalci - Ron Hubbard's Medical Officer
    Forrest J. Ackerman - Ron Hubbard's literary agent, deceased in 2008
    Pam Kemp - friend of LRH and ex-scientologist
    Raymond Kemp - friend of LRH and ex-scientologist
    Virginia Downsborough - Ron Hubbard's personal assistant
    Hana Eltringham - Ron Hubbard's deputy at sea
    Mike Goldstein - Ron Hubbard's Finance Controller
    YouTube - Scientology: Secret Lives - L. Ron Hubbard
  8. Anonymous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Wayne Whitney (deceased)
  9. Zak McKracken Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Ok.

    If Forrest Ackerman counts as "Ex Scientologist" , then van Vogt DEFINITELY.

    From what I can tell, they were both charter members of the LRH fan club.
    1947-195x they experimented with hypnosis and a mix of Dianetics and similar mindfucktech. Ackerman began to pull away around the time the Religious Cloaking went into full effect- but hung on as Hubbard's literary agent.
    I can't think of too much documented "speaking out" against LRH/Scientology he ever did; though his praises of Dianetics Science grew ever fainter over time.

    As someone who continued to represent Hubbard- at least on paper, he definitely wasn't a critic.
  10. Anonymous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Marion Evoy, former Canadian head of Scientology's Guardian Office, testified in court against Scientology in 1992.
  11. MongoLloyd Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Um, all ex-scientologists who've spoken out?! You're talking about thousands of people, over a 60 year period, in a dozen different countries/languages and hundreds of different newspapers, magazines, tv-shows radio shows, books, etc, etc, etc, etc.. The web is just a fraction of it all.

    Edit: After giving it a moment's thought: This is a really lousy idea.
    Scientology already makes lists of enemies. SP lists, as it were.
    You want to do OSA's job for them?!

    Look, Scientologists already believe the whole 'wog world' is against them. Producing a list of names isn't going to do much to sway them. All it'd take is for them to listen to one story, or a couple, with an open mind and that'd be that. A single story, with its common points of identification and so on is a lot more convincing than a simple list of names could ever be.

    In short, a detailed list of critics' names is a lot more valuable to Scientology than it is to us.
  12. WogDoc Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Don't forget John McMaster:

    Clear NUMBER ONE. He accused LRH of trying to set up a "spiritual tyranny".
  13. JohnnyRUClear Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    He was clear #1 #2. That chick in LA was #1 #1.

    McMaster was the Scientology "pope" too, wasn't he? Or was that another guy later?

    I've had this concept rumbling in my little brain for a while... it'd be difficult, but spectacular if achievable. This thread would provide something like the database for it. My idea is to create a 3-D (or 3-D-ish) graphical view of the history of the key personnel of Scientology, animated to show the progress of time from the beginning to the present, rendering each person as... something visual; I'm not sure what. But as time goes on, show each person who blows or routes out perhaps change color and peel away from the structure. Of those, the ones who speak out can turn still another color and merge into a secondary structure.

    It's ambitious. I'm not.
  14. Anonymous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Hey! I'm on the list and I think it's a good idea!

    If I spoke out using my own name (elsewhere, not here) then what's wrong with putting it on a list?

    This list ain't gonna help OSA identify me as someone who spoke out, because they should already know that.
  15. puffadder Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    I don't think Peter Gillham is an EX-scientologist. Maybe inactive (old or probably not allowed on services), but he's still in cahoots with them and hires Scientologists almost exclusively for his business.

    If he's "ex" in his own mind, he's doing a damn good job of fooling the scilons.
  16. Anonymous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    He left 27 years ago:
    "[..] "I got out 27 years ago and I'm glad I left, but I remember
    > [Hubbard] was sitting out there. He was paranoid of these raids. So,
    > I'm standing guard for this paranoid person and I'm like 'what is
    > this? Why can't we just be open? If this is so good, why can't we just
    > be honest about it?' But, no, when it came to him, you had to hide
    > everything. You couldn't be truthful."
    "
  17. puffadder Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Link please?
  18. Anonymous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Who fucking cares?

    It is a good idea, because it's a good resource for journalists as well.
  19. JohnnyRUClear Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Looks like a transcript of one of Baca's last segments for KESQ. Check KESQ.com.
  20. Ann O'Nymous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Great thread. My 2 cents:
    - Put the list in OP,
    - To reduce the charge on OP, people could announce the letter they intend to take care of (usernames or a mention could be temporarely added besides the letter).
    - Proposed struture: Name (date if dead), period in scientology, final level achieved, side notes (source, eg TAS), position held in org, incl. where and when (source), opinion about scientology (source).
    - Example: John Doe (2006), 1988-1996, OT 6, Patron, Wise (TAS), testimony (source).
    - Example: Jane Doe, 1993-2000, SO, NYC (source), testimony (source).
  21. RightOn Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Thanks for your input, and like I said in a previous post here, if enough people think this is a bad idea, then maybe we can vote on it, but I only went through with the list because everybody thought it was a great idea.
    This list is to inspire those stilll in, to leave, and those that are out to speak out. It is also valuable for people who are in, who lost track of someone, and may think they are still in. I also think journalists can learn from this list, or perhaps ask some of these people on the lsit to be interviewed.
    PLUS, it shoots BIG holes in the Scientology's claims of there only being a hanful of disgruntled people who have left. And I think that is very important.

    If OSA can't get these names off the internet as easily as I did, they are doing it wrong. Besides, these people are already known to them and many have SP declares.
    Alot of these names are collected from other websites.
    Some are from people PM-ing me, who have asked to be on it.
    Unless there is alot of oppostion to this list, we will keep it going.
    About 98% response have been positive.
  22. RightOn Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Zak,
    I can't possibly check out all names that are sent to me, as it was just staretd only yesterday. Eventually I can go through the list little by little, and see if any should be removed. Right now I am just trying to set it up. Like I said there will be errors. I am doing the best I can.

    People seem to be arguing about who should be on and off the list.
    Perhaps I can put a question mark next to a name until it is confirmed otherwise? Would that suffice?
    And I ask for any help I can get to prove or disprove the names that are already listed. This list is a very tedious task
    UPATED, I watched:

    Indeed Ackerman was interviewd, but he did not speak out against the church. He was just telling one of Hubbard's many fantasies, although he did say on the vid that he was done with Scientology completely, I don't think it constiutes as speaking out though.
    So whomever sent me that name, was incorrect. Thanks for the heads up!

    Thanks for your help. If you would like to continue to go through the list, and check names, that would be fabulous! :)
  23. ethercat Member

  24. Anonymous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Franklin Freedman
    YouTube - Panorama - Scientology the Road to Freedom? Part 1/5
    at 9:37
    Tom Weeks, Ex Sea Org
    Untitled Document
    Greg Marlowe, 1975-1978
    Affidavit of Greg Marlowe (12 September 1989)
    Dorothy Geary
    Dodie Geary held for 2 weeks: geary.htm
    Caspar de Rijk, director of Scientology netherlands in the early 70's
    Mutiny at Dutch Scientology organization
    Sylvana Garritano
    Scientology at Gilman: Hubbard said at ex-resort, defector speaks out - Riverside Press
  25. whoever Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Why not NOT put people on the list until they're confirmed?
  26. Anonxmous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Apols for not reading the whole thread, and this might have been covered...

    "HOW CAN ALL THESE PEOPLE BE WRONG?"

    This is the wrong language - after all, fairies at the bottom of the garden, or aliens exploring anal cavities - how can all those people be wrong?

    'cos they are

    The question should be rephrased. If I was sober, I;d suggest something - but "HOW CAN ALL THESE PEOPLE BE WRONG?" is no argument for anything,
  27. re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Bumps
  28. Sponge Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    [STRIKE]Barbara Schwarz
    is a German national, living in the United States, who is currently known as the largest filer of Freedom of Information Act requests since the filing procedure became available in 1966.
    Schwarz, a former member of the Church of Scientology, undertook her campaign to find information on various people she believes are related to her, including past Church of Scientology official Mark Rathbun whom she identifies as her husband, Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard whom she asserts was her father, and former United States president Dwight Eisenhower, whom she says was her grandfather.[/STRIKE]

    Perhaps not. ;) but then..... ?? No.

    Nice thread. Good jorb.
  29. RightOn Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Excellent!! thank you!
  30. Zak McKracken Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    thanks for your efforts!

    It wasn't a criticism.
    I'm genuinely curious what other people think-
    There's been some debate about other persons on the list, and it seemed in-context reasonable to toss this one on the bonfire.

    Hive mind works by group-disembowlement rather than group-consensus.
    Ya. it's annoying ;)

    I'll continue :)
    Though probably will continue to beat my drum over subjects relevant to my own peculiar interests. (e.g. 1940s/50s SF authors who were connected with LRH, who had potentially some early insight into the formation of the cult)

    I guess for the sake of sanity-
    Dianetics enthusiasts who nevar signed on to the CoS don't count as Scientologists? (if nobody here disagrees, I won't ask again :)


    Edit:

    Another name not on Teh List,

    Charles Manson? He seems to have self-identified as Scientologist for some time. It appears he's no longer part of their group. I would consider him an "Ex-Scientologist" (even if all of his experience was off-lines) but he's never taken a public stand/statement against the Cult.

    * Not on the list, I don't think he belongs on the list, but I mention in case someone else thinks he might.

    Edit 2:
    Arguing over marginal cases seems to push into derailure. Maybe needs one thread for the list and updates, a separate thread for discussion. :/
  31. btwyhad Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Thanks for doing this list. It tells me that I'm
    Not alone in my anger, in my rage,
    in my concern of the harm that scientology does to people and communities and families and our common desire to warn others of this evil that lurks in this world of ours.

    I'm not alone and those who are still in that desire to get out need to know, they won't be alone either.

    This list needs to be shown to everyone when speaking out about the harms of scientology.
  32. whoever Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Yeah, it's supposed to be a list of "ex Scientologists that have left and have spoken out against Scientology." It's not just people who have left and, oh, who knows, might have some negative thoughts about Scientology. No one should be proposed for addition if they haven't spoken out publicly.

    And anyway...just MHO, but if Charles Manson had spoken out against Scientology, I don't think having him on the list would help with the stated purpose of the list.
  33. Aneley Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    I havent seen Shawn Lonsdale was a scientologist for a short period of time right?

    I think he mentioned that on the interview with John Sweeney...?
  34. RightOn Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Nope not a Sci, just a critic, as far as I know
  35. Vercingetorix Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    I have laid the groundwork for the blog,
    Former Scientologists Speak-Out

    I will add links to any videos, websites and books as I get the information and have available time.
  36. Ann O'Nymous Member

  37. Ann O'Nymous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    E
    Ed Hattaway, Chiropractor, USA, 1992-1995, Qualified scientologist (http://www.truthaboutscientology.com/stats/by-name/e/ed-hattaway.html), testimony (http://lisatrust.freewinds.cx/stories/hattaway.htm, On 27 Feb 2001 16)
    Edward Walters
    Enrico Costantini, Italy, 1991-2003, Route to infinity, Crusader (Enrico Costantini - Scientology Service Completions | Truth About Scientology Statistics Project), testimony (http://xenu.com-it.net/txt/panorama_it.htm)
    F
    Frank Gerbode, USA, 1977-1981, Solo NOTS (Frank Gerbode - Scientology Service Completions | Truth About Scientology Statistics Project), head of the Palo Alto mission, testimony (http://www.xenu-directory.net/critics/gerbode1.html)
    Franklin Freedman
    Frank Notaro
    Frank Oliver, USA, OSA, testimony ( )
  38. Ann O'Nymous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    E
    Ed Hattaway, Chiropractor, USA, 1992-1995, Qualified scientologist (TAS), testimony (Meet Ed and Tera Hattaway, On 27 Feb 2001 16)
    Edward Walters
    Enrico Costantini, Italy, 1991-2003, Route to infinity, Crusader (TAS), testimony (http://xenu.com-it.net/txt/panorama_it.htm)
    F
    Frank Gerbode, USA, 1977-1981, Solo NOTS (TAS), head of the Palo Alto mission, testimony (Dr. Frank Gerbode, former scientologist)
    Franklin Freedman
    Frank Notaro
    Frank Oliver, USA, OSA, testimony (YouTube - Ex-Scientologist Frank Oliver about targeting critics)
  39. RightOn Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    Thanks Ann!
    I think the positions they held, how long they were in and dates are enough. Don't want to inlcude links on every name for service completions and testimonies.....
    the work would be too tedious.
    I am ambitious, but I have a limit.
    Thank you so much for your help and will add some of the info you provided.
  40. Ann O'Nymous Member

    re: Big List Of Ex Scientologists Who Have Spoken Out

    IMHO, mentionning some inormation is interesting:
    - the final course / final position: I would tend to read first stories by those who have seen more.
    - testimonies: serves as docs for this thread and makes others' life easier.

    As mentioned in my previous post, your task would be to copy and paste others' contributions.
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