Big List of THOUSANDS of Exes Who Have Spoken Out

Discussion in 'Projects' started by RightOn, Jun 26, 2009.

  1. The Wrong Guy Member

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  2. TrevAnon Member

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  3. TrevAnon Member

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  4. TrevAnon Member

  5. TrevAnon Member

  6. TrevAnon Member

    I checked all the names on the big list that have "indie 500" in their entry against the updated Indie 500 list and no longer found on the Indie 500:

    Kathy Bagley
    Joe Benton - only evidence speaking out is Indie 500
    Phil de Fontenay - only evidence speaking out is Indie 500
    Marcy Fredricks - only evidence speaking out is Indie 500
    Margaret Kerr - only evidence speaking out is Indie 500
    Tony Pellicci - only evidence speaking out is Indie 500
    Debora Reynolds - only evidence speaking out is Indie 500
    Rob Thomas

    So there are 6 of them we would have to delete?

    I'll go see if I can find other evidence.
  7. TrevAnon Member

  8. Incredulicide Member

    These are the only two names that I couldn't find in any Wayback snapshots of the Indie 500 list, and googling for "Joseph" and "Anthony" variants also produced no results of them speaking out. The total stays at 2878 with these deletions and the two previous additions.
  9. Incredulicide Member

    Currently the number of names on our list relying exclusively on their indie 500 entries is down to 157, with a further 165 names still linking to the indie 500 having one link to speaking out elsewhere. Finding other evidence of both sets of names speaking out elsewhere to reduce our reliance on the indie 500 list is always encouraged.
  10. TrevAnon Member

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  11. I normally don't opine on these matters, but will this time. I say absolutely not. Do not delete them. If necessary, use a Wayback Machine link.

    As explained in the July 2018 update quoted above, the reason their names were deleted from the Indie 500 List is most certainly NOT because they returned to the Church of Scientology, but instead because they have completely abandoned, Scientology.

    Further, as far as the requirement of having "spoken out," their deletion from the List does not change the fact that they did, in fact, "speak out" by putting their names on the list in the first place. As indicated above, their deleting their names from the list does not serve as a retraction (as it would in the case of someone who returned to the Church of Scientology) where, as here, they are deleting their names because they have completely abandoned Scientology. Indeed, their deleting their names from the list because they have now completely abandoned Scientology can be thought of as another form of "speaking out." (By analogy, consider someone who demanded that the Church of Scientology remove their name from PR, a building, completion list, etc.)
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  12. TrevAnon Member

    Just a note:

    Only for two (Joe Benton, Tony Pellicci ) Incredulicide couldn't find a wayback link (or something else). Those were deleted.

    We are not deleting them because they haven't spoken out, or even returned to the COS.

    We are deleting because we no longer have evidence they spoke out.

    An example (sort of) is of course Marty Rathbun. He's still on despite his turn - or whatever you want to call it. He has spoken out - A LOT. That still stands and there's plenty of evidence.
  13. Incredulicide Member

    I may have been hasty in removing those two names for this reason. We've had names in the past with speaking out evidence links that died without being resurrected and we didn't remove the names. They still had spoken out once and we did have evidence of it at the time, we just hope they'll do so again and we'll catch it/wayback it next time.

    EDIT: How about this: I re-add those names with the evidence we do still have, namely the dates that each of them were on the indie 500 list and we include those dates in their entries, thanks to RightOn's posts here on WWP, and we link to her posts:

    Joe Benton - on the Indie 500 list 2012-12-27
    Tony Pellicci - on the Indie 500 list 2012-11-13
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  14. TrevAnon Member

    How many names are on where this is going on?

    Whatever we choose we must always do it the same way.

    In my book no actual evidence means deleting the name. By actual evidence I mean a working link that points to a quote or something that is critical of COS.

    Or am I too strict? I think the list must be bulletproof. :)
  15. Incredulicide Member

    Check my edit above your post.
    See, now I get to dare you to say RightOn isn't bulletproof :D

    EDIT: One thumbs up later, and the total is now at 2881
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  16. TrevAnon Member

    :p (and love the progression bar, LOL)

    Have to say I think it's a slippery slope. Before you know we're adding because person A on the net said person B said a bad thing about the COS? (Also, it's one thing if a well known ex does it, it's something else if an Anon does it - however much I respect RO.)

    On Wikipedia I've seen "citation needed" more than once. Can't we use such a thing for cases like this? So for entries where links have died and there is no other evidence and also no wayback machine link? It would help to find these cases in the list so we can, every now and then, check these out to find if there is new / better evidence.
  17. TrevAnon Member

    The link for Stephen Sanborn looks weird and doesn't work)...?
  18. Incredulicide Member

    Fixed. Thanks for spotting it.
    We never deleted the dead links, they're all still in the wikisource, just commented out. You can find them all by doing a case insensitive search for:
    <!-- dead
    We've been doing this consistently from the moment we first noticed links dying. Not long after then I began obsessively Waybacking every single link anyone put into this thread, which is why the resurrection success rates of dead links has been so high, so it's less of a problem now.
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  19. TrevAnon Member

    Yay for Incredulicide everyone :D

    Srsly though: thanks for all you do. :)
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  20. TrevAnon Member

    Ok, 44 entries with "<!-- dead" in the code.

    Here are some alternatives for a number of them.

    Mylène Beyer-Pillorget

    Jack Craver

    Caspar de Rijk
    Maybe his site

    Other than that don't expect much as it looks galac-patra is pretty much dead

    John Donaldson
    Don't expect much as it looks galac-patra is pretty much dead

    Maria Estrada link now redirects to, so dead and gone. Other than that my own post at ESMB

    Bel Ferradj
    Lawrence Wright interviewed him/her in his book. ferradj scientology&f=false

    Ole Gerstrom

    Natalie Hagemo
    Not sure:

    Tera Hattaway
    A Tera Hathaway link:

    Claire Headley
    Not sure:

    Rolf Krause
    The scnforum link is no longer used by an scientologist forum but by some other group. krause clearbird&f=false

    Gabriella Masserini

    Margaret J. Nicholson

    Clive Nicol
    Again the galac patra site.

    Pier Paolo
    There's a Pier Paolo Caselli here:

    John Peeler

    David Rogers
    Again petition signing.

    Andrea Schwartz

    Vince Shlomi

    Peter Widmer
    his own site

    Sabrina Zimmer"


    What's this?
  21. Incredulicide Member

  22. TrevAnon Member

    I just tried to find working links or alternatives for entries having one or more dead links. Or... I tried to give a reason to delete a dead link when it isn't to be expected there's going to be a working link.

    As for the reddit thing: guess I should lurk moar. ;)
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  23. TrevAnon Member

    So, as I got nothing better to do I decided to try and count the number of references we have for each person on the big list.

    (Hey. I like stats, and it's almost Thursday 2 P.M.)

    Steps I took
    • I downloaded the source file of the big list
    • I deleted the complete truthaboutscientology reference, if it was there (which I was wrong in doing, but I only found that when I was ready, and I don't plan doing this again). My purpose was to delete any proof of having been in, which in itself is not proof of speaking out. Again, I was wrong.
    • I deleted any webarchive reference but kept the http-reference the webarchive reference was originally about. This also turned out to be wrong. But I could care less.
    • I counted the number of http(s)-reference that were still in the entry for the person.
    • I had 109 entries with no http(s)-reference left. Checking a few of them I found the error I already mentioned when deleting the truthaboutscientology reference alltogether. A number of these 109 rely on proof of speaking out which can be found at... truthaboutscientology. Also, a number of them only have proof which is not on the net such as books, articles in papers, tv-shows and the like. See also 2nd bullet.
    • I had 1433 entries with only 1 reference. Again, I found here I could have missed one (or more) references as some of the webarchive references do not contain "http" after the initial "http".
    • Further number of entries for each number of references left in the table below.

    Record holders

    As you can see, there are 5 entries with 12, 13 or 16 references.
    • On a shared third place, with 12 references: Sheila Huber and Maureen Bolstad!!!!
    • On a shared second place, with 13 references: Chris Shelton and Genny Long!!!111!!!!
    • At the number one spot, with 16 references

    So much for some useless stats.

    Hey COS, look at this. We have even more useless stats than you have, with 99,993457634534763458 % certainty. (No dox for that claim though, but that's not unlike you.)
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  24. Incredulicide Member

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  25. TrevAnon Member

  26. Incredulicide Member

    A stretch is an understatement. How are we to assume veripages has everything correct if she is not listed under her current name of Bergman, yet it knows that name as an AKA? Probably best to send the 2011 image from her profile around for others on the list to match her face to her former name of Baird, along with her current age of 66 and the names of her son, Shane M Baird (35), and possible ex-husband John N Baird (no age given).
    There's a relative listed as Joy E Kimball (44) and on the list is a John Kimball, though finding out if he knows Joy and Kathy through her would be a stretch. :rolleyes:
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  27. TrevAnon Member

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  28. Incredulicide Member

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  29. TrevAnon Member

    ^ That clear reference isn't right? "Mich Nt"?
  30. Incredulicide Member

    Visit it, she's there under "the Clear List"

    Ten more to Bi
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  31. TrevAnon Member

    Aha! Now I understand!

    Given the csv's I recently got from Kristi I might be able to find more people.

    Will do when I have time (and feel like doing so :p ).

    ETA using exact name search (which has its disadvantages) no extra data found in list of cookie cutter sites and/or clear list. I only searched for those people on the list who do not already have a truthaboutscientology reference.

    ETA 2 also tried this with the to be confirmed having been in list in the other thread, but again no results

    Both efforts once again make me feel good about the quality of the big list. ;)
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  32. TrevAnon Member

  33. Incredulicide Member

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  34. TrevAnon Member

    How do you guess the link to use to find if they are in completions?

    Is it always, say, the first 3 characters of the first name, and the last 3 characters of the last name?

    I could maybe come up with some automated process to generate the links, which I then should try of course.
  35. Incredulicide Member

    I usually go with 2 and 2, then if I get "No Information Found" I go with 1 and 1 and then use Ctrl F in the many more results for the entire last name, and F3 through those matches looking for full or partial first name matches.

    Once I find a name, I can see how to refine the URL with more letters of either first or last name (or both) based on the closest (and least number of) matches in the top list of completions to avoid the "No Information Found" page.
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  36. TrevAnon Member

    I'll see if I can generate links and put them in a separate (not pinned) thread to make the job easier.

    No time now, gotta go off to bed. Back to work tomorrow! ;)
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  37. Incredulicide Member

    It'd be great to also automatically indicate whether the last name of the person is or is not found listed in the content of a link generated from their name.
    If you want to experiment with doing that, try with a small group on the list with last names beginning with "Ca". I've already manually found them (4 names, 1 on the Clear List db and 3 on the Cookie Cutter db) so I'll be scoring you on accuracy :D
    Having, for example, only 4 links to click on instead of all 28 for "Ca" names without completion links would increase efficiency 700% :eek:
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  38. The Wrong Guy Member

    Scientology is very worried about 75-year-old Efrem Logreira and his allegations | The Underground Bunker
  39. TrevAnon Member

    The aka for Laura Decrescenzo is Dieckman, not Deickman
  40. TrevAnon Member

    Ok, so I'm trying to deliver on what I said above at

    The first thing I realized I was going to have to search for the aka's also.

    Checking a few names / aliasses / aka's gives there are now completions. Didn't check if timeline checks out and all that.

    However, I can now delete these from my to do list.

    Sarita Alvarez
    Sarita Shoemaker
    Sarita Stachelrodt

    Gary Brown

    Ira Chislof

    Richard Coanda
    Dick Coanda

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