Discussion in 'Independent Scientology' started by Anonymous, Aug 16, 2010.

  1. Anonymous Member


    Blood Money Martys Blog >Moving at a snails pace
    Marty's comments are highlighted in bold fonts

    Marty lets it be known what he thinks of anonymous

    to Marty anything critical either written /said of Hubbard's writings is attacking his beliefs. period.

    Don't cross Hubbard! Marty will never open his eyes to the abuse built into Scientology' and Hubbards Bizarre Train Wreck Abuse of Human Rights Policies, ultimately . his only beef is with the Tiny Terror.and its a lovers spat.

    Blood Money | Moving On Up a Little Higher
  2. Anonymous Member


    its not just anonymous thats critical of Hubbards Batshit insane writings. its also scholars, writers and researchers, theres an enormous amount to be criticized.
    much of it is designed to abuses and take advantage of the individuals in some way that are studying it.,theres an enormous amount of exploitation built into it.
    Hubbard wrote volumes of bulletins and policies that direct Scientologist to break the law in some cases
    giving unscientific if ever researched medical advice, thats harmful dangerous and misguided.
    volumes of damaging Psychological manipulation, built into it.
    Most of what Hubbard wrote dosen't stand up to rational criticism
    but to a died in the wool Scientologist whose been sucked into it, Hubbard is source and the only workable solution.
    it only works if your slowly indoctrinated into it..and spoon fed the info.thats why they keep it secret. it only works if its a carrot. even its basic tenants don't pass
    smell test. if your allowed to look at it from an outside perspective.
    Theres policies to exploit the legal system for Scientology's gain. and there are mountains of evidence of Scientology's abuse
    an overwhelming amount of secrecy and clandestine behavior,that make it unacceptable to most outside of the grip of Hubbard.
    most of the courses, books,are run like a marketing scam ,with peer pressure,hard selling,coercion, and some would say extortion and those are Hubbard's policies.
    they keep their "scriptures" and (I use that term loosely) hidden for a reason, they don't stand up to scrutiny. by any stretch of the imagination
    they attack the critics viciously,irrelevant of the facts. and will always do it because it comes from Hubbard ,in multiple orders,policies,writings.and something they
    will ever amend or correct. period.
    to them they have been trained over time to accept that Hubbard could ever be infalible, thats part of the manipulation deeply ingrained in his writings.
    you can make a long voluminous list of all of Hubbard's writings that deserve the critisim.
    irregardless,criticizing them is attacking their “beliefs” no matter how irrational those beliefs are to us "WOGS"

    Marty will never get the big picture, because he will never allow himself to see it..
    and he will continue to lead others down the same path..because it's ultimately to his benefit.

    Marty's teeth are sunk to deeply into the keester of Hubbard and he has lockjaw
    until he wakes up to the portions of his lost humanity, he is a lost cause. and no different than the long run.
  3. Smurf Member


    OK. That's a given. Then why constantly beat a dead horse over it. All this pissing & moaning over not being able to convince Marty to see things your way.

    Your life is not going to be affected whether Marty see's "the light." Get over it. All these people whining about Marty's not allowing their posts to get on his blog.. it's HIS blog for fuck sake. You don't like it? Start your own blog.

    Marty's entitled to be a narcissist, self-important wind bag with his ass-kissing fan club.
  4. Anonymous Member


    I support this.

    Correction, it's Marty's sock puppets club.
  5. Anonymous Member


    Marty is what Marty is, and thats the way it is. not the least bit interested of convincing that meathead of anything. I never posted anything there and don't intend too. he can toss out whatever he likes,and does. its out there its open for criticism, just like any of your postings.

    your assumption way off base and are incorrect. buy hey your entitled to them.
  6. Anonymous Member


    I wrote a reply to this comment:
    My reply:
    How is making Hubbard’s policies, books and lectures available on the internet for everyone to download and scrutinize freely a black pr campaign?
    Go to the leaks & legal section on WWP. You will see tons of original LRH materials can be downloaded there, thanks to anonymous making them available.
    I haven’t seen any independent site, where Hubbard’s material is offered for free.
    There are some freezoners site where some of these materials can be downloaded , yes, these were already there years before you newly out Indies came onto the scence. But the independents don’t seem to actually have done anything at all to make LRH’s tech available for the public so far.
  7. Anonymous Member


    BOBO is "DEADLY SERIOUS" ... and guess who's the target"

  8. Anonymous Member


    a few tend to get rabid. in defense of Hubbard. it comes down to no critical thinking of the Hubtard is allowed. BoZo's post are a fine example.

    In the end Marty,push come to shove.will never alter change,or deviate from Hubbard's Tech.

    Marty has as huge animosity for Anonymous,and ExEs that have put that crap behind them. you;ll see it in bits and pieces scatter throughout his posts. most border on resentful.

    Marty's OUT but he will never quit playing the game.

    theres a few posts that rant about how low toned anyone is,when they dare criticize Hubbard and it can get awfully denigrating

    that sometimes is ugly, vicious and degrading as any racism. and those comments aren't always directed at DM or his cronies
  9. Anonymous Member


    That's true. He packs his resentments into not as strong language as we do on these Boards. The word "natter board" is a good example for this.

    This thinking is the actual root of the problem in Scientology, and in the Hubbard doctrine. It is a rare opportunity for anyone to see the true colors of true believers. And these ideals are shared by Scientologists, no matter whether "in" or "independent".
  10. Anonymous Member


    Who ever said WWP was a democracy.
  11. Anonymoosh Member


    Don't Care about anyone else, but I will hold my hand up to this, Yes Marty, for me, to the end...IN ANY FORM!!

    Even if they are honest about their intentions are aren't hurting people?
  13. Anonymous Member


    This got to be a troll. The funny thing is, that Marty failed for it and even agreed to it, except for the part about anonymous doing a good job. lol
  14. thefatman Member


    That just can't happen. Dianetics is no more than a pseudo-science and cannot exist without the framework of the CoS behind it. Dianetic auditing is an incredibly ridiculous activity and really shouldn't be used, by anyone, until we can see some evidence to prove its effectiveness. Up until now, all independent research done on Dianetics has shown it is not effective in increasing the things Hubtard claimed it did.

    As for Scientology, it's an art of self-delusion, some of the very basic things have some form of use (e.g., certain things in the Comms course), but sadly, the good things Hubbard wrote were copy pasted off others. His work is flawed and needs serious revision before it can get to a point where it doesn't hurt anyone.
  15. Anonymoosh Member


    even if they honestly believe the practice of scientology doesn't hurt people, I believe it does, so ..for any form.

    Sure, I'd agree that in it's current form as practiced by the Church of Scientology, and possibly as practiced by some of the splinter groups.

    I however don't think anyone is qualified to make the judgment that Scientology "in any form" is harmful, as we don't have any information on any other way to practice Scientology.

    Why should we discount the possibility that some people may be able to use parts of the tech in such a way that is benign or useful even if it's use is as a placebo? I'm not saying that it is definitely possible for this to occur, but why should you shoot down the possibility before anyone have even tried it?
  17. Anonymoosh Member


    I am not,... any part of the 'tech' that works, does not work because of Lron and scientology, it was plagerised by LRon in the first place, therefore I see any part that works as seperate from the 'tech' anyway.
    Scientology is not just the tech alone, its the whole package of nothing, for Lron, DM and Marty, same old same old, new boss same as old boss and future boss no different, so still for me ...Scientology in any form.
  18. anonamus Member


    Scilons honest? Mwhaaa-ha-ha-ha! Are U kidding?
    You do know they have a TR, -nay a whole course I think, which teaches and drills you to become an expert liar!

    Honest? yeah right -when hell freezes over..!
  19. No TRUE scientologist

    You're saying any part of Scientology that isn't harmful isn't really Scientology? I don't find that argument to be useful when the topic at hand is changing Scientology to something that is not harmful.

    It might not be possible, and I'm certainly not saying that Marty is the man to do it, but I have yet to find a convincing argument that every single word Hubbard ever wrote is evil incarnate and therefore Scientology must be purged from this world like a lot of people here seem to believe.

    Again, you're talking about The Church of Scientology in it's current form. I don't see why you think it is utterly impossible for that sort of thing to be removed, and the tech to be reformed and restructured. I'll grant it is very unlikely with the batch of leader they have now.

    It is very important to remember that "Scientology" is just a collection of words, and those words by themselves are not evil. Can we judge people about how they apply those words instead of their interest in reading them?
  20. Anonymous Member


    Marty needs to go to jail...plain and simple..and sooner or later there is going to come the person to put him there. There is no statute of limitations on murder.
  21. Anonymous Member


    Oh boy. I'm so sick of threads about Marty. He annoys the piss out of me.
  22. AnotherSock Member


    Okay let's talk about changing Scientology, like Rufus says.

    Here's my wish list:

    1. No more masquerading as a religion. Its beginnings as a 'church' are highly questionable, in that they seemed like a 'dodge' that Hubbard came up with to get around the fact that he wasn't allowed to practice medicine. Tax-free status was a bonus, too. So, in the interests of honesty, a self-help group (and science fiction fun club) like Scientology shouldn't masquerade as a religion. So let's change Scientology to get rid of that aspect. I reserve the right to ridicule their "beliefs" and refer to it as a "UFO cult" while it continues to pretend to be a faith.

    2. No more disconnection policy. What happens between family members is no business of the Scientology self-help group. It's caused a great deal of unhappiness to many thousands of people. While Scientology continues to operate in this way, I reserve the right to express my distaste in public.

    3. The Scientology self-help group should not consider that it has a monopoly on truth when it comes to the life of L Ron Hubbard. They should not be able to suppress well-researched, fully referenced journalist and documentary sources presenting alternative (to me, real) versions of the life of their founder.

    4. Scientology and the law: the group must operate within the law, and also respect the spirit of the law, ie. no more frivolous lawsuits of the kind that destroyed the Cult Awareness Network. Any part of the Scientology self-help group that acts as if the laws of the "wog world" do not apply to it should expect to be exposed for what it is.

    5. No more blackmail. Information that Scientology obtains during confessional auditing should be destroyed after a fixed period. Any former customer of the Scientology self-help group should be able to use the Data Protection Act to acsertain that all information relevant to the services they have bought from the Scientology self-help group has been disposed of after a reasonable period.

    6. Zero tolerance for bullying within the Scientology group. The 'wall of silence' surrounding this issue must be broken down. Staff and public have a right to work and study in a safe environment, and to be treated with respect.

    7. Fair pay for Scientology staff and 'volunteers'. Pay minimum wage, or more. Subscribe to maximum working time directives in each nation where they apply. Where people of any kind are classified as 'volunteers', their hours should be capped at a maximum (say, 25 per week) and these should be timed so as to allow them to operate a normal 'day job' of their choosing. Because they deserve fair pay for the hours they do, even if I don't agree with the value of what they are doing.

    8. Openness about Scientology scripture. Any customer who asks questions about things from 'higher up the Bridge' is a victim of mis-selling when they are told lies about what they can expect to experience later on in Scientology. The Scientology self-help group should consider itself to be liable for damages if a customer subsequently discovers that they have been misled, and no longer wishes to continue their involvement as a result.

    ... I could go on.

    I'm not setting out to destroy Scientology. It's not my intention to wipe it out. I respect a person's right to do as they wish, even if they want to become involved with something as expensive and potentially damaging as Scientology.

    With my wish list, I make what I believe to be reasonable requests. As a concerned citizen, I have the right to ask that Scientology should operate within the law, tell the truth or at least not attack others who try to find the truth, and treat the people who become involved with it with decency.

    Funny thing is, if you improve Scientology in these ways, this particular 'SP' will go away... but Scientology itself would go away, too.
  23. anonymous612 Member


    Well, yeah, that's what happens when you moderate comments on a blog. I'd be happy to be violent and indecent on his blog if I thought it'd get posted...

    I can for the most part agree with your list and the sentiments behind.

    I would be less specific.
    I would be okay with Scientology if:

    1. they were open and honest about everything surrounding them including all levels of the tech, their founder, and their practices
    2. they would cease abusing their member and and their critics, including stopping financial, emotional and physical abuse.
  25. Skeptic1337 Member


    So marty's pissed that every one knows he's a nutter trying to save a ufo cult designed by a conman with a 4th grade education?

  26. Anonymous Member


    Anyone can do as they like. But they have to stay in the boundaries of the law. And they are not above criticism and you have no right to be liked.

    I think that Scientology, as laid down by L Ron Hubbard, is anti-democratic, against criticism and freedom of information and designed to hook people so he could get money out of them. It's a systematic scam in its organized form IMHO.
    I'm opposed to that. I'm also opposed to the intimidation and lawfare against critics, the use of fear and oppression in order to maintain control. This is not something that Miscavige invented, who btw really is as bad if not worse as Hubbard.

    But Miscavige is not an accident and not someone completely against everything Scientology stands for. From my outside perspective, it makes sense that someone like Miscavige can become powerful in an environment such as CoS.

    Do your freezone stuff or whatever you want, but don't expect me to like it. Or not to ridicule it. Or not to oppose some of its contents. Nobody is going to prevent you from auditing each other, from studying L. Ron Hubbard or from becoming Clear or going OT or whatever fancy names or concepts you want.

    Marty should also carefully study the press release from WWP against the censorship of certain works by Hubbard in Russia.

    Also, what does "attacking beliefs" mean, exactly? Being deeply critical and in opposition to contents of texts or being opposed to the right to believe something? If it's about the first issue, yes, then I'm attacking beliefs. If it's about the second issue, no, I'm not doing it. And neither is the majority here, IMHO.

    Chanology isn't identical to anonymous. Or Anonymous. Or whatever. Also, there have been other targets and net neutrality etc is an issue too and these are bigger fish, but you should spend a day or two at the places where it began and learn a bit about the nature of these places, compare to WWP, look at the history and then please understand that what you have here is a mixture of many different things, traditions and groups and interests. Above all, it isn't monolithic and there is no masterplan. Just look at what happened when there was the marblecake scandal at enturbulation/WWP. Also, please consider that the Church of Scientology has created many enemies throughout its history and many people have a reason to be pissed about this organization and it is from that pool of people that much of the opposition comes from. Also look at the earlier history of conflict between CoS and the Internet. You don't need a conspiracy to explain this. Even if it is complicated and I don't think anyone anywhere could have known what would have happened in advance, you just need to do a bit of thorough data collection and then apply some interpretation.
  27. magster Member


    This! ^

    The man is crazy, every time I read his blog I walk away saying "wtf?"

    And now I understand that he is enjoying fair gaming in his blog comments. You gotta love these born again Scientologists!
  28. Anonymous Member


    Freezone will become one of two things it will become fundamentalist and believe that any deviation from the Tech is Squirreling and forbidden,or it will become reformists and work towards changing some of the more harmful and criminal aspects of the Tech/Policies
    it will be whatever it is over time. it will become is what its most vocal members take it.
    is Marty a reformist? doubt it. but time will tell.
    it will always have something in common with the CoS it survives on is secrecy.
    its downfall is all its dirty laundry thats out there hanging in the wind. much to the fundamentalist Chagrin.
  29. Anonymous Member

    Re: No TRUE scientologist

    How did you get to be a moderator? The collection of words from Hubbard were instructions how to destroy people lives, utterly; and by itself is evil because Hubbard was evil. You can't see that? Resign.
  30. Anonymous Member


    The tech? Suppressive persons? Body Thetans? Fair Gaming? Aliens from outer space?

    and the list of nuttiness and words go on and on......

    Seriously folks, time to de-program yourself of all Hubbard crap. What sane mind can believe or get roped into this type of shit???
  31. Anonymous Member

  32. Anonymoosh Member


    IF they ever did these things, they would no longer be Scientology, scientology is BASED on these things, on being secret, devious and abusive, it cant be improved, it is fatally flawed because the original premise is a lie, and built on more lies.

    that might be YOUR topic at hand, it never was mine, I personally don't want it changed, I want to see it erradicated, because the 'tech' in any form is and will always be harmfull.
  33. Anonymous Member


    Ideas are bulletproof. Including bad ideas. It's undemocratic to try to erradicate an idea. It's against freedom of speech. It doesn't even work.
  34. Anonymous Member


    I don't criticize Marty for "censoring" his blog. It makes sense to me, considering the audience that he's trying to reach, that he remove anti-scientology and anti-Hubbard posts. Comment threads on his blog are really not the proper fora for this kind of discussion. I simply can't imagine someone, especially Anonymous, bringing the subject up without sounding condescending.

    Marty appears to be a man that is quite devoted to his chosen religion even if that is misguided and I really think he does want conditions to improve in Scientology. That said, I don't think I could live with myself if I had information that could stop people's suffering and refused to act on it. If Marty took his knowledge to law enforcement he could end Miscavige lickedy-split. I think the reason he hasn't done it, is that he's afraid that law enforcement intervention would end Scientology along with Miscavige.

    Whether or not he has aspirations of being the next leader of Scientology, I have no idea.

    I don't think I can quote this loudly enough.

    You should post more often.
  36. Anonymoosh Member


    Scientology is not an idea, it is a practice, is the idea of slavery forgivable?, maybe, but the practice isn't.
    Since when did this site become so full of apologists? I must have been absent longer than I realised.
    Keep on with the Marty forgiveness, and while you do, be careful you are not being blindsided, he has effectively neutralized Rinder and other freezoners, by accepting their adulation, focusing them on DM and keeping scientology working, just moved venue thats all.
    He has never properly apologised for anything he has done in the past, and has certainly never made reparations, i sincerely doubt he ever intended to.
    I wish you luck with your new friends, you will need it.

    can't be arsed with this anymore.

    I don't see where anybody is apologizing or saying Marty is anything but reprehensible.
  38. Anonymous Member


    Yes, there is a way to eradicate an idea. You just have to create a new and better idea, which makes the old idea superfluous.
  39. Anonymous Member


    You shouldn't at all because it is so sophomoric. Hitler bombing New York was an "idea." Are you saying it was bulletproof and shouldn't have been resisted.

    Rufus, what level of junior college have you attained?
  40. Anonymous Member


    Stupid people will still believe in it. I'm not saying ideas can't be fought. That's what happens in the public arena all the time. But to eradicate them is impossible in a democratic environment. You can try to make an idea obsolete or ridicule it or turn it into something that society looks down upon because of its contents. All of which should be done with the set of ideas that are Scientology. This is an important part of dismantling and destroying the organization Church of Scientology, because it undermines and questions its very foundation.

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