Bradley Manning Hit with New Charges in WikiLeaks Case, Including "Aiding the Enemy"

Discussion in 'Wikileaks' started by Mark Cabian, Mar 3, 2011.

  1. Anonymous Member

    As a matter of fact Manning didn't commit treason and hasn't been charged with treason. Your claim that he has put the lives of US soldiers at risk cannot be backed up with any evidence.
    As for your world view. It's like religious dogma. Therefore it doesn't make much sense to debate it.
  2. Is there any evidence anyone was harmed, other than Bradley Manning, by the leaks he is alleged to have made? No, as stated by the very people who are persecuting him. Is there evidence of war crimes in what was found in those leaks, such as murdering noncombatants? Watch Collateral Murder. The answer is yes. Is hiding war crimes illegal? Is obeying illegal orders illegal? Yes and yes.

    This is the reality I live in, one where your Nuremberg defense is not accepted. This is not treason. We are not in a declared war in accordance with the constitutional definition of the crime. He swore to protect the country from all enemies, foreign and domestic. He upheld that oath by exposing domestic enemies, and this is his reward. He deserves a Medal of Honor, not the torture he is currently undergoing.
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  3. ArnieLerma Member

    Re calling it WAR

    The US Congress has never declared war on Afghanistan.
    The US Congress has never declared war on Iraq.
    The US Congress never declared war on Vietnam

    The US Constitution states that ONLY the US congress may declare war.

    Pre war Germany shared a similar line in its own Constitution - Only The Reichstag could declare war.

    The Reichstag did not declare war when Hitler when into The Rhine
    The Reichstag did not declare war when Hitler went into Austria
    The Reichstag did not declare war when Hitler went into Poland

    Any questions about what is going around us?

    See The NY Times article Nazis given safe harbor in the US
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  4. Mitsu Too Member

    Ethan McCord was one of the soldiers on the ground that day and he is noe speaking out. While he could not fault the helicopter pilots from the initial engagement the subsequent killing of the wounded and those who went to the aid of the injured was not justified. They then covered it up. Ethan was the soldier who carried the children away from the vans and was subsequently refused help for coping with what he saw.
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  5. lulzgasm Member

    I don't need the gubment to keep me "safe" by violating my rights and hiding shit they shouldn't. That's what my fucking guns are for.
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  6. Anonymous Member

  7. Jimi Eagle Member

    Perspective is always good in a case such as Manning. You weigh the facts... and I'm not so sure anyone has them all... but facts to remember include:
    1. Many privates and lower (kids transformed into warriors) have such "top secret" clearances and access... 30,000 or more I've read.
    2. Military justice is basic and brutal and each of these young warriors knows the punishment for infractions is severe.
    3. Some leaked cables may have compromised (not just embarassed) our efforts to keep the murdering terrorists at bay. (I don't know anyone who's read all of the half-million or more cables, video clips, and e-mails which he forwarded to WikiLeaks! I've only reviewed a hundred or so which were floating about and picked my interest and read about others in the public press and media!)
    4. Manning's guilt or innocence will be determined by military justice.
    5. If he is found guilty of "aiding and abetting the enemy" he is toast.
    6. Telling the truth or releasing the truth can get you hung.
    7. "Three can keep a secret if two are dead" --Benjamin Franklin
    8. "There are no secrets on Main Street!" --JS Tobin
    9. Our US Armed Forces should review their security clearance protocols so buck-private "intelligence analysts" can't "grab and release" so-called "secure" communiques.
    10. As stated before, Manning will be fodder to scare the security order to all the rest who help the flow of so-called "military intelligence."
    and finally, one last fact:
    11. Obviosuly the US Gov't Computer Sentry's guarding SIPIRNet were asleep at their watch and didn't catch the breech until after Manning had dumped all the "classified" materials to WikiLeaks... and then it took a hacker/convicted felon, Adrian Lamo, who obviously was snitching to the F.B.I. to save his own butt.
    Once all the facts come out, in essence you will see it was just a kid thinking he was doing the right thing in exposing the truth who didn't fully understand that such intelligence dumps could possibly put others (including all of us) in peril. Yes, some rather embarassing truths were exposed that all Americans should digest and we think of our involvement in Endless Wars. Sadly, U.S. Army Pvt. Bradley E. Manning, intelligence analyst, will pay the military price for whatever charges are leveled in his court martial. It won't be pretty nor fair to most civilians, but justice itself, military or civilian, is never pretty let alone fair...
    So, Pvt. Manning is in slow torture in the brig at Marine Corps Base Quantico awaiting court martial which essentially conclude with only a few outcomes: 1. death; 2. life sentence @ hard labor; 3. a long, long sentence. I seriously doubt this kid knew what a shit-storm he was in for when he breached protocol, order and sworn oath.
    'Nuff said.
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  8. Anonymous Member

    I don't ask permission son. Now please have a set over there kiddo.
  9. Anonymous Member

    12. "Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy"
    - Herny Kissinger
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  10. none given Member

    I agree with you but you are not military.

    What Manning did was good for a citizen of a free nation. I believe it was his duty as an American.

    Military law is centered around keeping the military safe. He was not drafted, he asked to join that cult. by their laws he is wrong for telling the press and public their dirty secrets.
    Here is the deal: if you follow those rules and allow them to put you in harm's way you get a month of paid vacation every year, free food, clothing and free medical. If you keep it up for 20 years you get to retire.
    Not a bad deal really considering they accept people who have no real future on the outside.
    He signed on, he took the vow, he broke the vow. Then the deal is they get to shoot you.
    Again, he signed up for this. No one forced him.
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  11. Anonymous Member

    Call it a live-fire exercise if you like. Fact is there are factions firing real bullets in a conflict we are involved in. Should our military should just accept the getting killed like good soldiers??

    (I'll not go into the the treaty's we're signed to with the UN and the authorization for use of force)
  12. Anonymous Member

    Funny irony. I bet I can guess who you voted for.

  13. Anonymous Member

    Ok, even though it is not entirely correct that the military can just shoot anyone who breaks their vow, since there a different degrees of punishment. Let's assume for a moment that this is true.
    Your justification for murder is that he signed up for it voluntarily and therefore he has to bear the consequences, no matter how irrational and uncivilised they are.
    But what about his family/friends? They didn't sign up for it but if he gets killed they will lose him. Is that still in accordance with your own moral principles?
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  14. Anonymous Member

    My moral principals hope he gets general population at Leavenworths. It would guarantee a life sentence.

    Life's a box of chocolate.
  15. Anonymous Member

    Sorry, I don't play the two-party game anymore.
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  16. none given Member

    Greta, first off, you know I'm a big fan.
    That said:
    I took that oath myself once (BTW exact wording is: "to protect the constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic”) and there were a few moments where I wondered if what I was being ordered to do was really in the best interest of the US as I knew it.
    It is a good thing that Manning's case will receive public scrunity and repeated military judicial review.
    The kid is not going to see a firing squad. That, I am willing to bet the farm on.
    But if what he did was an anon op we would have all been posting "sloppy" "stupid" and "full of fail" . Because what he did was sloppy, stupid and full of fail. By law they may just have the right to blow him away.
    What will really happen is that he will end up doing "time served" and getting a journalist job that he is totally unqualified for.

    In response to your post: sleeping naked and blanketless is not "torture" it is uncomfortable. It would be DAYS before spoiled rich Americans like you and I got used to it. For most of the people sleeping tonight is is just the way things are.
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  17. lulzgasm Member

    Me neither.
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  18. ArnieLerma Member

    It is a fact that enlisted men and women take a oath to protect the US Constitution.

    It is my opinion that if an enlisted man were to engage in an unconstitutional war, he would be in treason to the Constitution of the United States.

    WikiLeaks' Principles Are Like U.S. Founding Values, Assange Tells 60 Minutes LINK
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  19. Anonymous Member

    I'm not the 'you' you are addressing, but this strikes me as a stealth-romantic point of view at best. I would call it childlike in its simplicity, but children are actually a lot more nuanced in their perception of the ways of the world.
  20. Anonymous Member

    Agreed. And Julian Assange is another sloppy fag and a monster of ego to boot. Sometimes the people who act in ways that change the way others see the world are less than picturesque, maybe even most of the time. Maybe it's too much to demand that all whistleblowers be morally attractive upstanding members of the community. Foolish people take risks and sometimes the rest of us benefit--how's that for some reality.
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  21. lulzgasm Member

    Dude. Stop making sense. You're making the "kill 'em all" trolls on this thread look dumb.

    But, to add to the argument:

    Sleeping naked and blanketless, alone, may not constitute torture, but that plus the prolonged isolation, plus the prevention of basic exercise, and whatever else might be on the ever-growing list in the future, is when viewed as a whole. He's being treated like a hard core serial rapist/killer and the guy hasn't even been convicted of anything yet.
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  22. Anonymous Member

    You're own misguided perceptions and ideological insights are misleading you, again. No one has said anything like "kill them all". Simply that when you're in a fight, you fight to win.

    He is in custody and that means its going to be uncomfortable. Give it time, he is guilty and will be found as such. Maybe Bradley shouldn't have signed up to be all he could be.
  23. 4TheSpark Member

    If elected officials, civil servants or the military can withhold information from the public, there may be times that this power is abused and information that has an impact on lives is withheld. The easy path for an employee or soldier to take is to say "I am only following orders" and do nothing. Corporate America has destroyed whistleblowers and this case illustrates that the government is not a safe place either. What we are seeing is a message being sent to any potential whistle blower. It also reinforces the need for Anonymous. Whistle blowers need protocols and outlets to release information safely. I have no doubt that there is more that could be known, but people have no way to come forward without risking the kind of consequences we are seeing here. The consequences destract from the substance of what he released. Poor Richard is bankrupt.
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  24. lulzgasm Member

    Committing war crimes has nothing to do with "fighting to win."
  25. Anonymous Member

    Because the world should be made of sunshine and puppies. A consequence free world where there is no risk.

    I agree with the principal of leaking dox and doing so at ones risk. Being a low-level butt-hurt soldier with only the random information I can get my hand on doesn't qualify IMHO.

    He knew the risk, now comes the consequences for his actions.
  26. none given Member

    You Wanna make out?
  27. Jimi Eagle Member

    The life Of Pvt. Manning according to Wikipedia (with all it's facts and faults and missing-in-action truths):
    On July 29, 2010, Manning was moved from Kuwait to the Marine Corps Base Quantico, Virginia, and classified as a "maximum custody detainee" held under a "Prevention of Injury" assignment. As of January 2011 he was being held in a 6 x 12 ft cell, with no window, furnished with a bed, toilet and sink, and with meals taken in his cell. According to The Washington Post, the facility has 30 cells built in a U shape, and although the detainees may talk to one another, they are unable to see each other. If Manning were to try to speak to any of them, the guards would view it as disruptive, according to his lawyer, David Coombs, a former military attorney and member of the United States Army Reserve; Coombs said in December 2010 that the guards were professional, and had not tried to bully, harass, or embarrass Manning. He was being allowed outside his cell to walk for up to one hour a day, shackled. There was access to television for limited periods when it was placed in the corridor outside his cell. He was allowed to keep one book and one magazine in his cell—according to Leigh and Harding, he requested Immanuel Kant's Critique of Pure Reason (1781)—but otherwise no writing materials, though access to them was given during allotted times. He was being shackled during visits.
    A Prevention of Injury order is one stop short of suicide watch. It entails checks by guards every five minutes, and no sleeping during the day. His lawyer said he was not allowed to sleep between 5 am (7 am at weekends) and 8 pm, and if tried to, was made to stand or sit up. He was required to remain visible at all times, including at night, which entailed no access to sheets, no pillow except one built into his mattress, and a blanket designed not to be shredded. Until March 2011 he was required to sleep in boxer shorts, and had experienced chafing of the skin from the heavy blanket.[32] On March 2, he was told that an Article 138 complaint filed by his lawyer—asking that he be removed from maximum custody and prevention-of-injury watch—had been denied. His lawyer said Manning subsequently joked to the guards that, if he wanted to harm himself, he could do so "with the elastic waistband of his underwear or with his flip-flops." This resulted in him being required to sleep without clothing and present himself naked outside his cell for morning inspection, which his lawyer described as ritual humiliation, though from around March 10 onwards he was given a garment to sleep in. In response to the incident, the brig psychiatrist classified him as at low risk of suicide.

    Concerns and formal complaints
    The conditions of his detention have prompted international concern. David House, the computer scientist allowed to visit him twice a month, said in December 2010 that he had watched Manning change from an intelligent young man to someone who appeared catatonic and had difficulty conducting a conversation. Democratic Rep. Dennis Kucinich and Pentagon Papers whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg compared the treatment to what happened inside the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. Ellsberg said it amounted to what the CIA calls "no-touch torture," and wrote that he believed its purpose was to demoralize Manning so he would implicate Wikileaks and Julian Assange.
    Juan E. Mendez, a United Nations Special Rapporteur on torture submitted an inquiry about Manning to the U.S. State Department in or around January 2011, as did Amnesty International to the U.S. Secretary of Defense. Amnesty also asked the British government in early 2011 to intervene on the grounds that Manning is a British national. The Guardian wrote that Manning had acquired British nationality by descent through his Welsh mother; the British embassy in Washington said it had not received a request to visit him.
    Manning letter
    Manning's lawyer released an 11-page letter from Manning on March 10, 2011, written to the U.S. military in response to their decision to retain his Prevention of Injury status. In the letter, he described having been placed on suicide watch for three days in January, and having had his clothing removed, apart from underwear, as well as prescription eyeglasses; he said the loss of the latter forced him to sit in "essential blindness." He wrote that he believed this was done as retribution for a protest his supporters had held outside the jail the day before; he alleged that, just before the suicide watch began, the guards began harassing him and issuing conflicting orders, telling him to turn left, then not to turn left. He also described being required to sleep without clothes and stand naked for morning parade: "The guard told me to stand at parade rest, with my hands behind my back and my legs spaced shoulder width apart. I stood at "parade rest" for about three minutes until the DBS [duty brig supervisor] arrived. ... The DBS looked at me, paused for a moment, and then continued to the next detainee's cell. I was incredibly embarrassed at having all these people stare at me naked. ..." He wrote that he was later given a smock to wear at night, which he described as coarse and uncomfortable, and said he regarded the decision to remove his other clothing at night as unlawful pretrial punishment.

    American government response
    A Quantico spokesman said in January 2011 that allegations of mistreatment were "poppycock," and that Manning had been designated "maximum custody" because his escape would pose a national security risk. The spokesman said Manning could talk to guards and prisoners in other cells, though he could not see the prisoners, and left his cell for a daily hour of exercise, and for showers, phone calls, meetings with his lawyer, and weekend visits by friends and relatives. Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell and Pentagon General Counsel Jeh Johnson visited Quantico in February 2011 to examine the conditions of the detention; Morrell said he was impressed by the professionalism of the staff, and that Manning's housing and treatment were appropriate. In March, State Department spokesman Philip J. Crowley told an audience at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology that Manning's treatment was "ridiculous and counterproductive and stupid"; the State Department said this was his personal opinion. The remark prompted reporters to ask President Obama to comment at a White House press conference; he replied: "I have actually asked the Pentagon whether or not the procedures that have been taken in terms of his confinement are appropriate and are meeting our basic standards. They assured me that they are."

    Hope he's allowed some meds like Ambien CR 12.5mg or something stronger to sleep? :( Same goes for Crowley as he searches for a new job!
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  28. none given Member

    For those of you new to Chanology the Hippy lookin mature geltleman in the Avatar is the one, the only, Arnie Lerma. He once deflected 400 hit points of psychokinetic damage aimed at him by L.R.Hubbard using only his toothbrush.

    Listen to this man. His words are wise, his eyes are crazy.
  29. Anonymous Member

    Problem is, you have no mouth.
  30. none given Member

    /me opens his mouth and sucks hard on anon poster like a big, milfy clit.
  31. Anonymous Member

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  32. Anonymous Member

    "safe" and unaccountable, until of course, somebody comes forward to make the unaccountable accountable (I think this is what they really oppose.)

    That's why I rather think Manning (if he indeed leaked the materials) deserves the Ridenhour Truth-Telling price ("in recognition of Ron Ridenhour, the Vietnam War veteran who exposed the massacre at My Lai.")

    I wonder why there such a price if it's wrong to "tell the press and public their dirty secrets."
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  33. Anonymous Member

    I would have thought recent events in Egypt and Tunisia would have exposed this type of shit. Apparently it was well drummed into faggots like you.
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  34. Anonymous Member

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  35. uncoerced Member


    So, Manning is all in big trouble because he didn't do what he swore he would do, right? What the oath was about, what the people who had authority over him would tell him to do.

    BUT my own fucking government and my government's military REFUSE to do what I (we the people) want them to do. Can I lock them all in the basement with no clothes now?

    Truth and transparency are a good start, and if it takes someone like Manning to call attention to the fact that things are being done in my name that I not only do not agree with BUT INTENSELY DESPISE then my government needs a major overhaul. They no longer represent me.

    Ever think that all those people want to kill me as a US citizen because of the very things Manning exposed? So maybe if our military STOPPED DOING THAT SHIT we might not need so much protection?
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  36. Thank you anonymous for your swift delivery

  37. Jimi Eagle Member

    Freedom of speech, simply put, is freedom of all speech! It goes right along with freedom of assembly, freedom of the press, freedom of religion ... and all our other sacred inherent rights shared equally by each and every human. The corridors of corrupt power will restrict and/or eliminate any one of these rights by fiat, rule, regulation, law, order... any way they choose. Our forebears fought mightily and bled in rivers to insure each and every one of us are so endowed with these basic human rights. When Thomas Paine penned his "inflamatory" screeds, he, too, was considered "treasonous" to his King. We should never forget these lesson forged on the anvil of freedom in blood. Pvt. Manning believed the truths he was releasing were more important than his individual liberty... and I've yet to find any dispatch or communique cited from the WikiLeaks unload which imperiled or compromised our troops in battle action. A lot of Red Faces in the Pentagon and State Department, but not a scintilla of battleground blood has yet to be painted directly on Pvt. Manning's hands. Until I see that direct proof, not some rant or speculation, I stand by his decision to share the inside skinny of those Endless Wars with all of us who must shoulder the burdens of paying for them in so many ways. Mizpah.
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  38. All Americas dictator friends go poof thanks to manning. He made revolution possible in the middle east. He is a world liberator
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  39. Except people don't sleep blanketless and naked while being confined to a tiny room 23 hours a day and systematically denied access to friends, family, and counsel without justification. I see Manning's actions, if he is, in fact, guilty, as the highest and noblest way he could possibly defend the Constitution of the United States. He allegedly reported and leaked evidence of war crimes committed in a war that contravenes the legal requirements for war to be waged. He is a hero. It is my sincerest hope he does not end up becoming an hero.
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  40. snowououV Member

    Americans are ok it's just many think thier Government knows what it's doing, the Goverment seems to play on thier patriotism and if you speak out against thier bullshit you seem to get ass raped.

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