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Brexit: the UK goes full retard

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by The Internet, Jun 24, 2016.

  1. Mann Ace Member

    I'm thinking it's an odd thing, that religion has been one of the ways people best resist government, due to their competing claims of authority and sovereignty.

    I'm thinking of Christians and Jews, and how, in many times and places, they have refused gov hegemony / sovereignty due to their allegiance to a higher power. They are a buffer against government's overarching plans to be the sole arbiter of society. As long as there are religions that pledge to God, they will stand, in some manner, as a buffer against the claims of government to be the sole arbiter. And once there are two arbiters, there can be many, opening the way for polycentric law.

    As an atheist, I find it funny, as in "god is an iron" funny, how these two cons have interacted over the years.

    Obviously, all too many times, gov and religion are hand in glove, and the people always suffer as a result. But historically, I think a case can be made that religion can, and has, acted as a buffer against government excess.
  2. I forgot that you have a totally different reality over there.

    That is why I believe in Dutchology:

    Healthcare insuerance for everybody even for the homeless who care to register at the homeless shelter, 64,8 debt to GDP and a boring prime minister.

    Yes that's a protestor close to our PM

    42c713bf648e23626d05dd0265c8695eY2F0czEuanBn.jpg

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  3. 600x600.jpg
  4. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ding-common-agricultural-policy-a7163996.html


  5. I can agree to that but still the member states have to aggree with eachother . And Britain faces 27 other member states. Not unlike a gruop of individuals who have to live together.
  6. I think what you call covert I think of as overt.


    Obvious American intrests are obvious:


    Having trading partners after WO II

    Curtailing the Sovjet Union

    Strengtening transatlantic bonds and NATO

    And doing lord Xenu's bidding of course: here is lord Xenu visiting Kennedy in 1961 (Actually has cold war relevance)

  7. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Obvious interests, perhaps (I might dispute some of them, but that seems tangential ATM). But actions are not interests. It is the actions which I'm calling covert -- and when actions are covert, that naturally raises the question of what the true interests of the actors are. Generally speaking, actions pursuing obvious, benign interests would seem to be poor candidates for the cloak of secrecy, no? Plenty of actions of US diplomats and agents have been done in plain sight. So why the secrecy here?

    Ah, but you have pictures of tin-foil hats, ergo my suspicion must be meritless. ;)
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  8. Mann Ace Member

    In my experience, once the pictures arrive, rational thought disappears.

    But KKS, I will say that your Mark Rutte, who seems a perfectly decent person, is part of the reason the long con works so well. It doesn't require all the politicians to be bad. Just existing is enough. It's similar to the Baptist and Bootlegger synergy. They oppose each other, yet together they make bad things possible. The Baptist says "Ban the demon rum" and the Bootlegger says "Please do, It makes us rich."

    The decent politician gives cover for the rather more common nasty politician.
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  9. Don't worry Bush W. JR killed off the CIA spy network. because he couldn't see the value of it.

    Okay enough with the inuendo: WHAT ACTIONS BE SPECIFIC

    I need clarity not this."know what I mean, notchh notchh suff"

    I don't like geussing games

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  10. As I said you live in another world overthere

    American life is not the blueprint for the rest of the world

    THANK GOD IT IS NOT. I am not religious but that fact makes me wanna get down and thank GOD that the whole world doesn't work like America, China or Russia.

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  11. Mann Ace Member

    Actually, we live in the same world, and politics can kill ya, no matter. You may have a decent PM, but others, not so much. And 'decent' in political terms is not the same as decent in human terms. Mt Rutte is still taking money from people who would not give him a red cent, if allowed to opt out. That's called theft everywhere, except politics. Funny how that works, the people making the rules exempting themselves from the rules. What a con they have running. Wish I could get into it...except I have morals and scruples, which don't allow me to steal from other people under the guise of helping them.

    The essential point, KKS, is that politics is a con. We don't need politicians. Society can function without them. And that means that every penny they receive is fraudulent, a con designed to transfer money and power to people who don't deserve it.
    Never said it was. But politics are politics, wherever you go.
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  12. Well if your checks and balances system is rotten and can be bought by bussinesses you are indeed right.

    About Rutte: I think he still lives with his mother or something

  13. Mann Ace Member

    Damn, I hear serial killers are more likely to live with their mom!!!!!!!
    I like how you ignore what I actually say in favor of your talking points.

  14. I don't have talking points

    You like religion although you are an atheist

    You expect religion to keep politicians in check.

    THAT IS FUCKING WRONG DUDE(TURKEY MUCH?)

    This:

    I am Niels Martens fullblown Atheist and I Support this Message:

  15. I measure freedom to what level a woman or a gay person are respected in socïety, and yes religions. Even Islam (here is looking at you Donald Trump)



    The fucking scummy deadbeat good for nothing EU is actually upholding that inspite of those easteuropean countries who didn't have the benefit of evolving in western europe.

  16. GIVE CLARITY DUDE, al you give me is innuendo

    So I punish you with this video:

  17. Back on Target. Who was baosting about the strong manufacturing base of the UK ??? Looking at you ??? person. I am just janking your chain I know it was Gasmask guy (Edit sorry that I was wrong, I will do the walk of shame now)

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...er-than-thought-in-wake-of-vote-a7165911.html

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...er-than-thought-in-wake-of-vote-a7165911.html

  18. Mann Ace Member

    What's wrong is yelling at someone because you misunderstood what was being said.

  19. NO I did not, YOU: politicians BAD, politics BAD, me no godfag but godfag good for counterweight for politics wich is BAD


    nag nag nag nag nag
  20. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/adam-manuel/will-brexit-really-destro_b_11292618.html

  21. JohnnyRUClear Member

    I didn't watch the video, but I'll try to answer your request as best as I can in a short posting.

    The shortest honest answer is "I don't know". However, that is oversimplified. While full understanding of conspiracies is difficult (secret stuff tends to be secret, after all), there is a lot which can be learned about hidden agendas, including those of various "American" individuals, including some of those we're looking at in this EU formation dance. I've spent a lot of the past couple decades of my life digging into those agendas, to the point that I don't spend much time on that any more. I already have a pretty good idea what I'll find when I do. I've also found that a whole lot of people are utterly clueless about such agendas, and respond to discussion of them as you have here: with a dismissive wave of the mental hand. They prefer to bandy about the "respectable" narratives provided by corporate mass media, which gloss over the covert aspects and focus attention on political theater. I have the opposite preference; I find the shadowy operators and multi-billionaire string-pullers more interesting, and that story generally starts more or less where the mass media articles leave off.

    Pursuit of this sort of info is not an easy dalliance. It's a bit like flipping over a circuit board you've only been looking at one side of and finding an entirely new set of conductive traces connecting this and that in a pattern not examined before. It takes time to sort it out, and anybody not also looking at it will be of little help in the effort. A Scientology parallel might be the influence of the Sea Org throughout all the Scientology entities, which provides "COB" a sort of universal override ability, while on the surface, all the entities appear to have a much more complex network of relationships. Scientologists will sometimes stress the complexity of the surface relationships, yet they celebrate/fear "COB" for running the entire enterprise. However, in the case of the cloak-and-dagger side of world affairs, I don't know that there is a "final boss" sitting somewhere with a cat in his lap and a Mini-Me at his side. If there is, I haven't spotted him (or her). (Cue the tongue-in-cheek image of all the power groups connected to Anonymous. LOL.)

    What I can say is that there is definitely "more to the story" than what we get from "responsible" media sources. Wikipedia enhances the narrative somewhat by making it easy to connect some of these dots, hopping from entry to entry. As I said, it's helpful for non-controversial data. But it's still subject to editorial bias, like any other managed resource. So there is more to see than Wikipedia entries. I recommend taking time to delve into each of the following aspects: international Jewry, Masons, Roman Catholicism, control of resources (oil being a huge one, but water is perhaps another, and always land, and more), communism, crony capitalism, international banking, racial divisions/loyalties, and the "Anglophile" network Quigley wrote about in "Tragedy and Hope" and elsewhere (CFR, TLC, Bilderbergs, etc).

    There are more strands to the tapestry; those are the ones which come immediately to mind this morning. I hope you'll forgive me for not trying to describe the whole enchilada in a "unified conspiracy theory"; I'm not sure I could ATM, anyway (cue the same graphic again). But these are very real aspects of our modern world, and they are not explained very well (in some cases, not at all) by our usual sources of mass instruction, leaving the average person on their own to self-educate (while being jeered by those who don't look, any time they mention any of this).

    So, what was the hidden agenda w/r to the EU formation? Again, I don't know, exactly. But it clearly involved transferring decision-making power away from individual nation-states into a more centralized and less democratic supranational entity (since that's what was done, and it was the plan from the beginning). Why was that desired? The "shore story" is the gauzy one you've offered here. The reality of it has been rather less pleasant, in at least some respects -- and that is only starting to become clear; it's going to get much clearer as the collectivist wheels continue falling off (Greece next?). Is the trouble just unintended consequences, or were those consequences actually anticipated (by some) all along?

    Yeah, innuendo, but this isn't what I'm looking at lately, so I don't have a more specific answer ready for you right now. (Here in Murka, we have a lot of stuff to think about, not just the EU.) But see my list above for some good places to dig in if you are ever so inclined. This guy is a very intriguing fellow to start with; I suspect there's more to his picture than the Wikipedia entry indicates (although it indicates a lot).
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  22. THANK YOU:

    I will answer your well written piece after I thought about it and have let it al in.

    giphy.gif
  23. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...nomy-expert-john-van-reenen-lse-a7169541.html




  24. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...eu-funding-kept-up-with-britain-a7168491.html

  25. The Internet Member

    I sympathize with you because I strongly suspect a couple big conspiracies nobody else sees. Maybe one day enough pieces of the puzzle will fall into place.

    The people who started the European free trade community were likely self interested as well as interested in peace and security. Thus if we find bankers and industry moguls scheming to take advantage in a conspiratorial way, we still have the other good intentions as part of it. And who cares what dead people wanted anyway. It is us and our children who matter now.

    Trade agreements mean some sacrifice of autonomy to the needs of others. The agreement usually imposes costs. Yet on the whole all parties must benefit or the agreement will fall apart. Once that happens it can take a lot of time and energy to rebuild a functioning partnership.

    If Brexit were a surgical procedure I believe the patient would be suing the surgeon for failing to obtain meaningful informed consent. All these complexities and headaches KKS has been sharing should have been discussed before any conclusions about leaving the EU were formed. Racing to a conclusion informed chiefly by propaganda was a huge mistake.

    People have been lolling at UK citizens saying that they did not expect their vote to count. But I reckon that people understand intuitively that decisions with complex consequences ought to follow a long period of careful analysis, which had not happened.
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  26. FUCKING LOL

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/when-will-article-50-be-triggered-2016

  27. https://www.theguardian.com/environ...to-british-fruit-and-veg-sales-producers-warn

    I cannot blame you for not picking those produce yourselves, I would not want to do that either

  28. Deleted because of irrelevance to this thread:

    Posting tits: image.jpg

    Tits always relevant.

    Attached Files:

  29. sorry mods wrong thread
  30. FOUND SOMETHING. Good old french chuck saw the UK as what I said earlier as the Bitch of America in 1963, And that was 2 year after the Cuba crisis.

    I think the Russians are so happy with Brexit because they never forgot why America wanted the UK to Join in 1963. ten years before they finally did. French chuck had kicked the bucket by than ? Long Chuck was Long

    http://historum.com/european-histor...-de-gaulle-s-veto-british-membership-eec.html





  31. I see the European project as something from 1957 onward (Treaty of Rome) that evolved over time out of a vision beginning with the treaty of Rome, signed by the founding member states

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...and-the-eu-the-story-of-a-very-rocky-marriage

    I think this is the root of the conspiracy think by Margeret Tatcher, I think it is more a difference of opinion.

    As I live in a founder member country(The Netherlands) I personnaly think it would not be in my countries intrest to Nexit

    Companies and Rupert Murdoch get fines for bad behavior that really hurt and that single thing makes me happy

    Not to mention clean rivers wich were poluted to the max in the 80ties of the 20th century

    And than there are the progressive labour laws that are upheld. That is a reason I am against TTIP wich gives companies the right to sue an individual nation state. That would undercut the current climate of high fines on whatever bad shit big companies are doing:


    Delicious PDF is delicious

    http://ec.europa.eu/competition/cartels/statistics/statistics.pdf

    And this gem:

    http://ec.europa.eu/competition/cartels/what_is_new/news.html

    And Overt intentions are Overt:

    http://www.historiasiglo20.org/europe/traroma.htm


  32. http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidsc...wn-as-supreme-financial-capital/#6c9d114453dd

  33. Did you know that Great Britain recieves 16% of the total EU research budget. I think the brother of Boris Johson is not liking his kin so much these days.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-new...-from-britain-in-wake-of-brexit-34937383.html

  34. Financial Times

    https://next.ft.com/content/a37459ac-394d-37c6-a976-6e1de6a61009

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  35. House of Lords Opinion

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/05/peers-brakes-brexit-doing-our-job

  36. LSE the London School of Economics and Political Science:

    http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexitvote/2...overnment-will-have-incentives-to-compromise/

  37. The Institute of Physics blog:

    http://www.iopblog.org/researchers-begin-to-feel-brexit-impact/

  38. As I said earlier: "Goodnight sweet Prince"


    http://www.pionline.com/article/201...-grow-in-july-following-brexit-8212-2-reports

  39. I am actually almost feeling sorry for the old people in the UK now.

    https://brexit.efinancialnews.com/u...40-billion-in-one-day-687f6598f870#.57yfltk2i

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