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Brexit: the UK goes full retard

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by The Internet, Jun 24, 2016.

  1. Sweden , Greece and the northern Italians are exploring their exit options too now.
    It's beginning to look like the whole thing will fall on its economic arse sooner than expected.
  2. Random guy Member


    Greece and Italy (and Spain) has a looming Euro debt bubble that's hidden in their banking systems (not so looming in Greece's case). The single currency has worked very well for the Northern half of the union, but very badly for the Souther half. I don't think Italy want out of the union, but the Five Star Movement (who just won the major election in Rome) want out of the single currency, same with Podemos in Spain.

    Sweden isn't in the single currency, and there's no real popular call for seceding for the union.
  3. Mann Ace Member

    What are the implications of not using the Euro? I also just read that two countries (UK, Denmark) are exempt from ever using the Euro. Does that mean the Sweden will be required in the future to adopt the Euro?
  4. JohnnyRUClear Member

    As articulated well by Greenwald, et al, it's those such as the OP who are "going full retard" here. Then again, maybe it's both! The one thing that seems certain to me is that insulting unhappy people does not make them happy. You can (sometimes) stop a Brexit/Trump/whatever political action, but doing so does not address the disgruntlement behind it.
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  5. Random guy Member


    ^^Quite^^
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  6. Random guy Member


    It's basically just that you keep your own separate currency, which can fluctuate according to the ups and downs of the economy of your own country, unlike the Euro, which fluctuate according to Europe as a whole. The Swedish Krone will fall when productivity is low, which will make Swedish goods relatively cheaper for the outside world, thereby increasing demand. At least that is the theory.

    With the Europa-wide single currency, the relative value of the Euro is evened out between prosperous and less prosperous nations. This means that high quality goods from prosperous Germany is is valued relatively low, due to countries like Greece, Spain and Italy dragging the value of the Euro lower, while goods from these countries are relatively more expensive than they should according to their wealth level, as Germany and the Netherlands holds the value of the Euro up. The end result is Germany is dirty rich and getting richer, while the Southern nations never seem to be able to increase export and GDP.

    Another point is that currency, no matter how lame it may sound, is a part of the national identity. Imagine you're an USAan and suddenly have to do all your trade in Peso or Canadian Dollars. I'm sure user Johnny_Reb can explain to you all about the emotional loss of national identity in a union.
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  7. Mann Ace Member

    Ah. Thanks. So, isn't that a point of contention in the EU? If a prosperous country, say Germany, is helping prop up a Greece, that might breed resentment.

    Good point. But in this case the UK wasn't in the Euro, so that doesn't apply.

    and lol about Johnny Reb. He's got his point of view, now, doesn't he?

    The article I read about the countries not on the Euro seemed to be saying that those 7 that were to eventually go on the Euro have been dragging their feet. Any truth to that? And if so, is that because of the more local control on your currency? I mean, if one country is prudent, and another imprudent, it makes no sense for the prudent one to tie his money to the imprudent one.
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  8. Random guy Member

    Not only that. Despite having bugged up thoroughly, the Greeks have had their position made much more difficult by the very same mechanism which gives Germany an artificially high trade surplus. The "help" the Germans and others have given the Greeks is in the form of loans from private banks taking risks for huge profit (sub-prime anyone?).

    The extreme insistence from the Germans that the Greeks make good on a debt they according to the IMF can never realistically pay back is partly to save face for German politicians so they won't have to tell the electorate they let the banks squander private investors money on bad loans.

    So while the Germans recent the Greeks for squandering money, the Greeks resent them right back for exploiting them.

    It's partly dragging their feet, but also because of the degree of stability stipulated to join the Euro-zone are hard to fulfill for small countries just coming out of recession. The Danes have a ratified exemption, but the Swedes are dragging their feet though! They don't have a ratified exemption, but at the same time they have a referendum that binds them not to join.


    Ironically, it's become the other way around. The imprudent Greeks have forced the Euro down, giving the prudent Germans a heck of an economic surplus...
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  9. ;)

    https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-debate-what-do-switzerland-and-norway-tell-us-about-life-outside-eu/
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  10. Mann Ace Member

    Thanks again. Sounds like there is lots of resentment flowing around the EU.

    Do you personally want to change to the Euro from the krona?
  11. The Internet Member

    Putin has been cranky with the EU since annexing Crimea. He might be the sort to use his PR machines to rabble rouse against the EU. Divide so later conquer maybe.
  12. The Internet Member

    Seems like people just voted to make their own lives more difficult. Makes me think they got some bad info. People who spread bad info are usually very nice and respectful and not at all insulting.
  13. The Internet Member

    That is pretty classic hot button pushing stuff.

    In the John Oliver piece I posted, Oliver mentions that his staff fact checked an anti-EU commercial playing in the UK. The commercial says the EU imposes a crazy number of rules on the sale of bed pillows. Turns out that was mostly bullshit. In my experience, people who mislead like that are not my friends.
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  14. Disambiguation Global Moderator

    He also looked at the promises on the Brexit Bus- all the money going to the EU they would spend on public health instead. Now the vote is over that promise evaporated.
  15. Curious -
    1) Have you ever been to England?

    2) Do you believe that the politicians on the other side of this issue were always transparent, honest and upfront in their dealings with their constituents?

    3) Are you aware of the migrant situation and the impact that it having on Europe?
  16. The Internet Member

    Maybe Brexit is not good. Cuz if it was really going to help British people, I do not think the pro-Brexit PR would need to tart itself up with lies.
  17. JohnnyRUClear Member

    The people who have been spreading lies in support of the EU have pretended to be nice for decades. Now, they're becoming insulting, because their lies aren't working any more. If certain anti-EU ads (or even all of them) were wrong, that's a shame, but that doesn't make staying in the EU a good idea. It just means the people who did those ads should have done better ads. (From an amoral, purely functional PoV, one could say that the ads were the right ones, since the cause was a success. However, I'm with you as far as distaste for misleading propaganda, from anyone.)

    As for making their lives more difficult, if we assume for the sake of discussion that you are right that that is what lies ahead, why should being a sovereign nation be more difficult than being subsumed into a much larger, unaccountable collectivist superthingy? That reminds me of when I told someone I want nothing to do with the Google corporation, and they told me I'm going to have "a hard life". If that's so, what does that mean? Why should anyone be forced to do business with one particular corporation just to avoid having "a hard life"? Is that really a desirable arrangement? What kind of relationship is that?

    In this case, why should one country -- or, as may be, one kingdom -- be forced to be part of a particular supranational entity just to avoid "making their own lives more difficult"? Is that really a desirable arrangement? What kind of relationship is that?

    Besides, getting a divorce often makes your life more difficult (temporarily), but that doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do. It just means you got yourself into a tough spot and it's tough to get out. Whether it's the right or wrong move is a separate question.
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  18. The Wrong Guy Member

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  19. It is not racism or bigotry.
    to suggest that that is the singular motivation for the current flux in public opinion is short sighted and insulting to their intelligence, common sense and desire to address legitimate safety concerns with civility and respect for the law.
  20. Random guy Member


    Sure, Putin has every reason to be happy about the result, but with the frankly ridiculously bad PR-effort Vote Leave and UKIP were able to muster, he must have put up his worst experts if he was behind it. In the UK, contributions aren't anonymous. The greatest contributors were libertarian toffs and right wingers, see Daily Mail article and this one from the Guardian.
  21. Random guy Member

  22. Random guy Member


    Nope, the Euro-coins look so lame.
  23. Random guy Member


    I think you'll like this one.
  24. Malory Member

    No the thing is once you get outside London the vast majority of English people simply do not want multi-culturalism and it cuts across class lines and it's absolutely no surprise to that the parts of Northern Ireland which voted to leave are heavily populated by those who try to be more English than the English so as to distance themselves from being Irish.

    The failure has been that it's something the politicians have tried to sweep under the carpet. An even bigger failure was that genuine concerns from people who weren't being racist were hushed up and that has festered. Yes there will have been people who voted to leave for other reasons, but not enough.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...-brexit-working-class-anger-its-more-worrying
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  25. Random guy Member


    I think you're right.

    Critiquing Multi culturalism, and it's mother globalization, isn't PC. The conventional wisdom is that those two always benefit a country. Saying otherwise, is likely to get you branded a racist.
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  26. The Wrong Guy Member

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  27. Sekee Member

    I wish the government would do something to rein back this self-serving muck spreader.
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  28. Sure. Just as soon as they do something about the troublemaker Anjem Choudary.

    [IMG]
    keBab
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  29. Yre the same fucker who posts this racist shit in every other thread give it the fuck up and die.
  30. keBab
    This message by keBab has been hidden due to negative ratings. (Show message)
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  31. (he was released.)
    keBab
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  32. Mann Ace Member

    But then there is this from http://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors...ight-bulbs-and-tomato-marmalade/#152e9ba64600
    Instead of just defining a Class 1 banana, the EU says if you sell a non Class 1, you go to jail. Wow, just fucking wow. That is bureaucracy at its most out of touch, making rules for rules sake. Gotta have something to do to justify those salaries. In my experience, people like that are not my friend.
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  33. breathe.
    This message by breathe. has been hidden due to negative ratings. (Show message)
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  34. http://www.unilad.co.uk/news/theres-already-a-conspiracy-theory-about-camerons-resignation/

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  35. Random guy Member


    Stick to the topic, please,
    • Like Like x 1

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