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Call To Arms: Translators.

Discussion in 'Translation and Text Composition Projects' started by gregg, Feb 18, 2008.

  1. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    german translation (first version, someone else needs to evaluate style and content) follows, remarks at the end (sorry for wall of text):

    Es folgt eine offizielle Bekanntgabe an die Öffentlichkeit und an all jene,
    die sich mit Anonymous identifizieren oder damit zusammenhängen.

    Im Rahmen der fortgesetzten Anstrengungen gegen die Church of Scientology startet Anonymous
    ein neues Projekt namens Operation Reconnect. Dieses Projekt soll im April
    stattfinden und wird das Schicksal von Familien thematisieren, die durch die
    Praktiken der Church of Scientology entzweit wurden. Das Ziel der Operation
    wird darin bestehen, jene Familien wiederzuvereinigen, die im Rahmen
    vorgeblich religiöser Praktiken auseinandergerissen wurden.

    Der Name dieser Operation wurde in Anlehnung an eine Vorgehensweise
    der Church of Scientology gewählt, die berüchtigte "Disconnection policy",
    derzufolge Personen in der "Kirche" der Kontakt zu Personen verboten ist, die
    die "Kirche" als Bedrohung ihrer Sicherheit ansieht. Diese Vorgehensweise wird
    häufig von der Church of Scientology als Mittel eingesetzt, um Familien zu
    trennen und auf diese Weise einen Graben zwischen denjenigen ausserhalb der
    "Kirche" und denjenigen, die in ihr gefangen sind, zu erzeugen. Es dient auch
    dem Zweck, jede soziale Unterstützung, die derjenige ausserhalb der "Kirche"
    hat, zu kappen; auf diese Weise wird es ihnen erschwert, ihre Verbindung zur
    Church of Scientology zu lösen.

    Seit Anonymous eine Kampagne gegen die Church of Scientology begonnen hat, sind
    eine Reihe von Menschen vorgetreten und haben über ihre persönlichen
    Erfahrungen mit der Church of Scientology berichtet. Viele dieser Menschen
    haben von dem negativen Einfluss berichtet, den die Church of Scientology auf
    ihre Familien ausgeübt hat. An einem Tag, dessen Datum noch bekannt gegeben werden wird,
    werden einige dieser Personen ihre Erlebnisse der Öffentlichkeit als
    Redner bei friedlichen, weltweiten Demonstrationen schildern. Alle sind eingeladen,
    sich ihre Geschichten anzuhören und zu erfahren, warum sie soviele Jahre
    geschwiegen haben.

    Wir sind Anonymous. Wir sind Legion. Wir vergeben
    nicht. Wir vergessen nicht. Erwartet uns.


    Didn't put it at the wiki as I didn't want to leave any IP info whatsoever. Feel free to put it there.

    Wherever there was the word church in the text I put "Kirche" in quotation marks- this is a change from the original;
    the reason is that in germany almost noone except Scientology PR is calling Scientology a "church", feel free to change it,
    if you think its better the other way around.

    "Disconnection policy", "Operation reconnect" and "Church of Scientology" were kept as names and subsequently not translated
    as I dont know what "disconnection" is in german scientology-language and if it has a meaning in german as well.
    Apart from Kirche "Disconnection policy" is in quotation marks, as "policy" is no german word. Most people will understand/know enough english
    to know what reconnect means, a lot of people will understand the meaning of disconnect, especially as it is explained afterwards.

    "derzufolge Personen in der "Kirche" der Kontakt zu Personen verboten ist, die
    die "Kirche" als Bedrohung ihrer Sicherheit ansieht."

    in contrast to the original, this leaves open, whether the church regards those persons as a danger to the security
    of the church (as in original) or to the security of the member, which had to disconnect. The reason for this is in german grammar, could
    be prevented by stating instead:

    "derzufolge Personen in der "Kirche" der Kontakt zu Personen verboten ist, die
    die "Kirche" als Bedrohung der Sicherheit der "Kirche" ansieht."

    Albeit this sounds a bit clumsy and as if one goal of the sentence would be to drive home the notion of the church being just a "church" (=not really a church) as
    this word is mentioned several times in a short interval.

    "learn what has kept them silent for so many years." has been translated to something which means "get to know why they have been silent for so many years" ("zu erfahren, warum sie soviele Jahre
    geschwiegen haben"). This is of course not optimal, but every translation including the possibility that some outside
    factor contributed to them staying silent would be a direct allegation, much more than in "what has kept them silent "
    which might be an influence from the outside, an emotional cause or a combination of both.

    policy as a word in the text was translated as "Vorgehensweise" (approx. "way to act").

    "continuing efforts" was translated as "fortgesetzte Anstrengungen", which sounds awfully formal/diplomatic (which might also be true for the original); however the alternatives would be "Bemühungen" (pretty tame word, sounds like trying but bringing immediately to mind the possibility of failing), "Kampf" (fight) or even "Krieg" (war) which would be an entirely different style than the original.

    Individuals was translated as "Personen" (persons) or "Menschen" (people/human beings); even though the word "Individuen" (individuals) exists,
    it sounded pretty cold in my ear and a little disrespectful of the people it refers to and I think in english its a fairly neutral word,
    describing single human beings. Other people may see this different.

    Well "legion" exists in german too and I think with all connotations, but I'm neither sure if I know all of them, nor how many people in germany know which connotation- I think the most popular will be that of a roman legion (large military unit).
  2. gregg Member

    Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    Just a FYI for everyone. I did a little restructuring on the wiki just now. Added pages for each translation team (by language,) also added the Translate page and put the Operation Reconnect Video under it. I then split out each language and wrote a quick note on what to do.

    I think some more organizational structure like what I just did is needed. I will try and do some more, but if anyone else wants to step up and take a look at what I did and maybe add more structure and writeup a document about it, that would be nice. Once we have some kind of a structure in place and a way to do things a document like a user manual / how to for the wiki would be good to have. Something telling people what to do to make it fit in the organizational structure we've built.
  3. Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    Minus sarcasm, yes, this is what I'm thinking. If you are going to translate something, not all things can be literal translations. I mean, remember that movie with Bill Murray?

    Some things are going to be lost in translation. The best way is to translate the feeling, and then try to work the facts into it in a literal manner.
  4. Freyja Member

    Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    I can't find any MAJOR grammar mistakes myself, and I agree that "Attendez nous" could be better though, it needs something with a little more...oomph. :p

    Other than that, it looks good to go to me ^_^! :guyfawkes:
  5. anomnomnomous Member

    Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    I'm thinking of keeping the English words in [brackets] for the Norw-trans. That will easyficate engooglement. Maybe it's better to put them as transaltor's notes at the end?

    I used regelverk in Norwegian, which would mean a set of rules. It is possible, and not uncommon, to use 'policy' as an English loanword here.

    I used innsats, which would be einsatz in German, I think.

    I struggled with this as well, and used different words interchangeably. I think the Germanic languages share these connotations to the word individual - it sounds as something from a research journal.

    Redner?
  6. thenewanon Member

    Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    Co$ is in Brazil !! Such as Narconon... I've translated the oficial annoucement of Operation Reconnect to Brazilian Portuguese...
    Expect us.
  7. anomnomnomous Member

    Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    Answering myself: Marc 5:9
  8. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    @anomnomnomous

    thanks a lot for your comments. I used Redner instead of Sprecher; this is truly superior. I changed the order of words as well and now the sentence reads different:

    "werden einige dieser Personen ihre Erlebnisse der Öffentlichkeit als
    Redner bei friedlichen, weltweiten Demonstrationen schildern."

    In principle you are right concerning "Einsatz" but I think "fortgesetzter Einsatz" will be associated by a lot of people with continous german military presence in Afghanistan and the Balkans, which is not awfully popular ("Auslandseinsatz"), even though the word has the additional (and original, I think) meaning of effort.

    I'll think about your remarks regarding "policy" (I'm not really sure what "policy" means in english, will look it up, in any case for scientologists it is regelverk, but in the text policy is at some point used as the normal english word, and I thought that meant "how something is usually done"="a way to act", not necessarily strict rules), of course everyone is free to change it, once it is in the wiki.
  9. Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    It's on the wiki now. Have at it. :mrgreen:

  10. anomnomnomous Member

    Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    Yup - it's a word of many bad connotations. There was a neo-Nazi group here in Norway called that a few years ago.

    I'm quite stoked I could help out with the German, actually - never learnt it in school. :D
  11. Briar Member

    Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    Well, we can sit and wiggle our fingers while people do the real work. :wink:
  12. anomnomnomous Member

    Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    A video of a person with a V-mask signing the text would be AWESOME.
    (For the giant constituency of people who know sign language but can't read.)
  13. incognita Member

    Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    It's Mark 5:9.
  14. Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    @incog: Your Russian's a lot better than mine, but could we throw around ideas for flyers and cards over private message or something? It could turn out easy to get the Russian-speaking community involved considering it's BANNED in Russia for easy-to-see reasons.
  15. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    you be thanked muchy much, anon93752 ;)
  16. gregg Member

    Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    A decision will need to be made about video translations:

    Do we get the text translated into text and then add subtitles to the original video (we need a team setup to do that.) The other option is to have it translated and then read into a wav file and get the original video and add it to it (replacing the original audio.)

    Both of them have their good points and bad points, what do you all think?

    Next up you can see some examples of more structure showing up in the wiki here:
    http://wiki.costruth.com/trans/index.ph ... nect_Video
    AND
    http://wiki.costruth.com/trans/index.ph ... nect_Video
    AND
    http://wiki.costruth.com/trans/index.php/French

    I am trying to get some organization into this thing. Some of it is hard to wrap my head around, but I think it is starting to take shape. Once a couple of these are in here and going we can come up with the How To section and some templates for what a language page and what an actual "project to translate" page look like.
  17. anomnomnomous Member

    Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    Gregg, for us n00bs: can you explain the good and bad points of the different ways of doing the translated videos?
  18. gregg Member

    Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    I think it might take more manpower to pull of the audio+video one and more work in getting the raw video with no audio as well?
    Subtitling shoudlnt be a hard thing to do?

    Remember I am new to this too. I am just trying to make sure this project gets started, and gets done right. Its the "right" part that I really just dont know about.

    All the organizing and formating I have done on the wiki is just what seems logical to me.
  19. Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    I have done a translation of the girl video into Chinese text, Mandarin speech:
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=gPgW73u_Q7E
    The sound is the lowest pitch I can get from a female voice to resemble a freaky male voice, which I think works for the first wave videos. Otherwise the voice just sound too much like news broadcast.

    Anyway I'm happy to help. Natively fluent in English and Chinese.
  20. Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    I thought we'd be having people read/record the various languages over the same graphics. Is that not the case?
  21. Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    taxscientology, you just killed two birds with one stone! +10 internets for you! Is this the equivalent of the Ides of March video? If it is, this is an example of what we're looking for! Good job! :mrgreen:

    I will add this to the wiki under "Ides of March". Xie xie!!! :mrgreen:

    EDIT: Another question, taxscientology: I have this under Taiwanese in the wiki. Am I assuming right or is this in another dialect of Chinese such as Mandarin or Cantonese. I just want to make sure I have the languages categorized correctly.

  22. gregg Member

    Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    If you would read all of the posts you would notice that it is something we are discussing. Again, I posted this thread LAST NIGHT. We are already on page 4 and the wiki is starting to get some good structure and content. This is a work in progress, nothing is set in stone.
  23. Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    Gregg, you are awesome. The hookers and blow are on their way to you right now.
  24. Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    @indeedindeed
    i think your translation is almost perfect.

    Just a few suggestions:
    "entzweit" refers to only two persons torn apart i think. I would suggest "getrennt" or "auseinandergerissen".

    "wiederzuvereinigen" sounds strange in my ears. How about "wieder zusammenzuführen"?

    Just replace "church of scientology" by "Scientology-Organisation" and "church" by "Organisation".
    Thats also the way they are officially called by Verfassungsschutz.
    Also this clearifies that the protests are not against a religion, which might be associated by using the word "church", but against an organisation.
  25. Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    To all languagefags, gregg and I are updating the wiki in real time and I want to let you guys know you're all making me WORK like crazy here. Trust me, I'm not complaining! This is just fabulous and I'm enjoying every minute of it. :mrgreen:

    I might not get everything today but I'll be working on this tonight to fill the gaps also. Guise, LET'S KEEP ON SPREADING THE WORD!
  26. thenewanon Member

    Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    lol...that's awesome!
    Does Anyone has the text of The Ides Draw Near - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFoHo7jmOx0
    Is this the video we need to translate too? cause if it is...I prefer to have the text than write all just by hearing it..thanks Anonymous.
  27. gregg Member

    Re: Call To Arms: Translators.


    Definately agree with that, spread the word. Make sure that you ask anyone you know who speaks another language.

    It would be interesting if we had a way to get in contact with the whole translation team when we need to get something done fast (think press release, in response to something timely.) So everyone can be asked to come join the fun.
  28. Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    That's the one where we're waiting for text. That should be forthcoming in the next few hours or day.

  29. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    All suggestions to change the translation are great!Just go ahead and change it, its not my text, its our text; someone wrote it, someone can edit it. Someone may be someone else. Someone may be anyone. In fact, this is encouraged.

    So now there it is:

    "Das Ziel der Operation
    wird darin bestehen, jene Familien wieder zusammenzuführen, die im Rahmen
    vorgeblich religiöser Praktiken auseinandergerissen wurden."

    "wird das Schicksal von Familien thematisieren, die durch die
    Praktiken der Scientology-Organisation getrennt wurden"

    Even though it is not as harsh as "torn apart", but the fact by itself is bad enough. To state a shocking fact in a calm manner can create a better effect directed at the reader (its also a nice contrast to Scientology's apparent PR-strategy of making wrong or absurd statements in a hysterical style (I guess thats very effective))

    Replacing Church of Scientology by "Scientology Organisation" (as well as the Church of Scientology by "die Scientology Organisation" or simply Scientology) sounds like a good idea as well, but of course is again different from the original.
  30. Anonyymi Member

    Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    Yet another Finnfag enters the fray. Tulta munille!
  31. thenewanon Member

    Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    Great...is there more prior texts to translate?
  32. Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    THIS: http://wiki.costruth.com/trans/index.ph ... anslations and the three most popular flyers that were distributed during 2/10. Your guess is as good as mine on that though. (I happen to like the wad of money one.)

  33. Malle Member

    Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    Better: "wird das Schicksal thematisiert"
  34. indeedindeed Member

    Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    Now it is:

    Wenn wir "thematisiert" wollen, wäre es (da "wird thematisiert" hier grammatisch falsch wäre):

    in this version we would have a "Tempuswechsel", I dont think it is grammatically completely correct either (passiert erst im April, aber thematisiert jetzt schon). Im Original ist beides Futur (at least one is in April (future) and the other in Futur). Thats why I think it should not be changed. It is a little clumsy the way it is, I admit to that, but I dont think it can be changed that way. But thats just my opinion, the wiki is now the "place of authority".
  35. SovietV Member

    Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    Hey, I can help with Russian translation. I'm bilingual, both Russian and English.
    At Girlontheinternet I'd say the last line should be

    ?? ????????.
    ??? ??? ??????.
    ?? ?????? ?? ???????.
    ?? ?????? ?? ????????.
    ????? ???.


    It just sounds alot better IMO
  36. good text to speech free websites

    Here are free good text to speech websites. All sound like news anchors to me. Hard to be freaky though.

    http://www.linguatec.de/onlineservices/ ... eader/site
    12 European, Chinese, and accents. MP3 download

    http://www.research.att.com/~ttsweb/tts/demo.php
    English French German Spanish many voices and accents. WAV download

    http://www.neospeech.com/
    English Chinese Korean Japanese. No direct file download, should be able to capture somehow.

    As for the videos, it's much easier and more impressive to add voices rather than subtitles, IMHO. Both is great. The length of sound files are different, so the video should be suitable to adapt to slightly different length. In my Chinese case, the video is shorter so I cannot use the original.
  37. Krol-On Member

    Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    Update for Brazilian Portuguese:

    I´ll post the parts that I think need change. (original // changed)

    Projetado para tomar lugar no mês de Abril //
    Projetada para entrar em atividade no mês de Abril

    O objetivo dessa nova operação é juntar novamente os membros das famílias que foram separadas devido as prática dessa religião. //
    O objetivo dessa nova operação é reunir os membros das famílias que foram separados devido as prática dessa religião.

    O nome dessa operação é fruto da notória ‘Política de Desconexão’, no qual indivíduos que fazem parte da Igreja são proibidos de entrar em contato com pessoas que a Igreja julga serem perigosas para a segurança da mesma..//
    O nome desta operação deriva da notória ‘Política de Desconexão’ da Igreja da Cientologia, sob a qual seus membros são proibidos de contatar ou se relacionar com pessoas que a Igreja julga serem uma ameaça à sua segurança.

    Essa política é frequentemente usada pela Igreja de Cientologia para separar famílias, criando uma fissura entre aqueles que estão fora da Igreja e aqueles que estão presos a ela. //
    Esta política é freqüentemente usada pela Igreja da Cientologia para separar famílias, criando um abismo entre aqueles fora e aqueles dentro da Igreja.

    A operação também tem a finalidade de remover qualquer pendência que o indivíduo tenha fora da Igreja, o que torna sua saída da Organização da Cientologia mais difícil.//
    Esta política também tem o propósito de remover qualquer suporte social que que o indivíduo possa ter fora da Igreja, tornando sua saída da Organização da Cientologia muito mais difícil.

    Desde que Anonymous começou a campanha contra a Cientologia, um grande número de indivíduos se pronunciaram dispostos a contar suas próprias experiências com a Igreja. Muitos descrevem a influência negativa que a Igreja de Cientologia exerce sobre suas famílias//
    Desde o momento que Anônimos estabeleceu sua campanha contra a Igreja da Cientologia, várias pessoas têm vindo a público com relatos de suas experiências dentro desta, muitas descrevendo a influência negativa exercida pela Igreja da Cientologia sobre suas famílias.

    Em uma data que ainda será anunciada, alguns desses indivíduos irão relatar suas experiências ao público numa manifestação pacífica ao redor do mundo.//
    Em uma data que ainda será anunciada, algumas destas pessoas relatarão suas experiências ao público em manifestações pacíficas ao redor do mundo.
  38. Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    Note taken, I'll change it. Thanks.

    I'm only in second semester studying the language, lol. :lrhcries:
  39. Re: Call To Arms: Translators.

    Changed on wiki. If the OP can do a quick pass of this and other Brazilian Portuguese speakers reach a consensus that this is the most accurate translation, we can wrap Brazilian Portuguese up as final for the Operation Reconnect Video Script. :mrgreen:

    http://wiki.costruth.com/trans/index.ph ... /Brazilian

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