Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road It's called eminent domain in the States, and yes, it's in the constitution
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road Excellent. Who in their right mind would object to a bit of waste land being used to widen a road to make it safer, rather than ploughing a new road through somewhere else when, looking at the map, it's going to extend journey times considerably? When you said 'eminent domain' I thought you meant the home of a rapper, sorry.
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road I think someone in the area should submit the road widening idea as a competing plan.
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road I understand CoS want to secure their borders, limit their exposure by eliminating this road that runs through their property (as DM probably sees it). But was Gilman Springs Road not there before CoS bought up property on both sides of it and built on it? If so they are responsible for the present situation and may have created it deliberately with a view to acquiring the extra land now used by the road. The road doesn't run through CoS property: they just happen to own property on both sides of it. Their problem, no-one else's.
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road Do tell What are the scientologist proposing? Does anyone have the exact quotes of what they are asking for?
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road Yeah. They have plenty of land. 500 acres. Eminent Domain should only require (with fair market value compensation paid to the CULT) less than 1%-2% of the CULT compound. It doesn't really matter how much land one has, though. Many tens of thousands of single family houses on small (5,000sq.ft. +/-) lots have been demolished to make way for roads and freeways in the US over the years. Eminent Domain is really all about "The greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics.". The $cilons should certainly understand that.
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road Isn't the current easement enough to fit road widening? (Some CoS encroachments on the easement might have to be moved/bulldozed. Too bad. It's not like they asked for permission or got a variance for them in the first place.)
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road FIFTH AMENDMENT RIGHTS OF PERSONS No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use[,] without just compensation. Here and Here
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road In the US Constitution, it is the reverse of what you say. Amendment 5 No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road I'm telling you, it's either Santa's Elves with their specially wrapped boxes of camera hiding joy or the Anonymous Post-It Note Brigade. Just suggestions, mind you.
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road Is it possible that someone could request that the legality of those cameras and their location be brought up at the next Riverside council meeting? I am wondering why no one has brought this up before as I am willing to place money on the fact the location of those cameras are illegal. (privacy laws, road hazard, driver distraction etc). There must be rules on what and how things can be placed on public property. Also irregardless of that, would it be illegal for someone to remove them? If so how? Their on public property. Graham Berry could perhaps enlighten us as to what the law is on this matter.
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road Correct. The $cilons permission is not needed under Eminent Domain. I believe the existing easement would be sufficient for 2 lanes in each direction. However, not sufficient for possible/probable expansion beyond that. The existing road should be expanded and...also...the existing easement. The area is growing and changing and transitioning from rural to suburban. The entire nature of the area will likely change completely within 20-50 years. Easements are put in place for such eventualities and time frames. The existing easements have been in place for decades and are now inadequate and inappropriate. Hopefully, all of Slappy's whining and manipulation about road closure will bring the unsafe condition of the road into a very public light. That may be just what is needed to finally expand and straighten the existing road. Another fine CULT footbullet indeed.
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road It should be pointed out that they have tunnels under the road and if needed, they can improve those tunnels to permit scilon traffic from having to cross the highway. That answers their concerns.
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road Example of holding two contradictory ideas in your head at the same time: It's a dangerous, dangerous twisty road that should be closed! We going to put cameras on public easement and shine lights in the faces of drivers at night. (There should be something in California's version of the Highway Traffic Act concerning roadside lights, I think.)
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road Gonna be kind of hard to expand the road with that sewage treatment pond right next to it. Just sayin, that may be why they're grading that vacant lot to the north end. And then they can say the sewage pond is a potential health hazard, so the road should be closed.
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road Is there not environmental laws governing what they are doing regarding this cesspool/pond? This area is a flood plain so what happens to the sewage when the river floods? Building sewage infrastructure I would think would be heavily regulated. Permits etc would be required, which I would suspect the cult does not have. Is there a way to find out if they do and if not who do we harpoon?
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road There is some question whether or not the cult has permits to do this work. It's all addressed in the thread, "strange doin's at Gold Base." I only mention it here because of the road issue. Remember when Scientology put their fences on the public easeway without permission, then started bugging the county to ignore their infringement? (they finally moved their fences back onto their own property earlier this year) I think it's the same tactic; build something without permission, then baww that it's already there and the county should let it stand, or whatever it is ponds do. If this is intended to be a sewage pond, I'm sure that there would be concerns about public health issues should the area flood again. Aerial views of Gold show similar ponds to the west of Golden Era Productions, ponds that have been cleaned out by hand as punishment. Those ponds are even closer to the river bed.
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road The sewage pond does not make it hard to expand the road. (Except, maybe, in the wacco minds of "Slappy" David (Koresh) Miss Cabbage and his sycophants.) Sewage ponds are not eternal. Sewage ponds are not immune from Eminent Domain. If the sewage pond is treated as a potential hazard, another one or two or three or four can be dug in different places...only this time...well away from the expanded existing road, existing easement and any expanded easement. If the sewage pond is such a potential hazard, then Slappy and the CULT should not have dug it so close to the existing road (including the easement) in the first place. Their fault. All the way.
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road If it's for a sewage pond, I believe their new grading requires reviews and permits beyond the County level. The rules about those kinds of things have changed since Gold first popped out of the desert. BigBeard
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road EPF kids, RPFers and SO members move raw sewage around with their bare hands; Freewinds dumps raw sewage on tropical beauty spots, Narconon has E-coli in its water supply. This suggests Scientology likes shit. It might even be shit.
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road The only valid placing I know for OPEN AIR SEWAGE PONDS is for livestock excrement in intensive farming applications, such as pig farming. I've never heard of an open air sewage pond for HUMAN excrement. Only Scientology could think of humans as livestock.
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road I'd like to read what environment reports were written before they started working on this shit pond. It screams environmental hazard. Of course, for those of us that have been inside Gold Base, you know the property is rife with EPA and OSHA violations, which the agencies have routinely turned their backs on, for fear of "offending" a "religious" entity. When's the last time, for example, the Riverside County Health Dept has inspected the berthing areas??
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road Will some kindly locals please make complaints, on these and other related issues, to the Riverside County Health Department, first thing Monday. Or today. Department of Public Health Susan D. Harrington, M.S., R.D., Director Health Administration Building 4065 County Circle Drive, Riverside, CA 92503 (951) 358-5000 | FAX 358-4529 | TDD 358-5124 Public Health people are not ordinary bureaucrats. They actually get worked up about public health violations.
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road I've been in contact with the LA Times correspondent in Riverside and the Press-Enterprise. They need to write articles informing the general public this potential environmental nightmare and how it will affect the lives of people that live in that part of the woods and those who drive on Highway 79.
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road The County Health Officer is appointed by the County Board of Supervisors to enforce County ordinances and State and Federal statutes pertaining to public health and sanitary matters within the unincorporated areas of the county and within all of the cities in Riverside County. Eric Frykman, MD, MPH, MBA joined the Riverside Community Health Agency as Director and Public Health Officer in February 2007. Previously he was the Health Officer for San Bernardino County Department of Public Health from March 2004 and served as Interim Public Health Director since July 2006. He also served as Chief of Disease Control & Prevention since June 2001. He continues to be involved in many community-based activities to improve the health of various communities and, as part of a team, develops local response plans for bioterrorism and the local prevention of further threats to public health. During the Kosovo conflict in 1999, he and his wife volunteered to help the refugees in Macedonia. He has worked in Bangladesh, Mexico, and Russia as well. He and his wife Ayme have five delightful children.
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road forgot: Eric Frykman , MD, MPH, MBA Riverside County Health Officer Director, Community Health Agency Health Administration 4065 County Circle Dr., Riverside, CA 92503 (951) 358-5000 FAX (951) 358-4529
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road I wonder how many they have who aren't "delightful!" That Goth one in the basement, for instance.
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road When Marc Headley was chased by Scientology goons when he escape Int Base, was he still on the portion of the road they wish to close? If so, if they close it, who will be there for whoever wants to escape? Nobody. Miscavige only sees big win from closing the road: 1) Prevent escapes 2) Prevent protests 3) Prevent being served They can't be let to succeed for this one, way too important when it's about an organization engaged in human trafficking.
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road THIS. They CANNOT be allowed to succeed here. We must fight this tooth and nail, though, we have the fact that this is a MAJOR highway, and that there is no viable substitute on our side. But still, the cult has at least one supervisor (Jeff Stone) in their pocket.
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road http://www.exposescientology.com/humantrafficking.html
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road Anyways, don't you think it is a bit melodramatic to say that sprinklers and road flares endanger people's lives? Sure I know what could happen but that doesn't mean it's a likely outcome. As for stone, I would advise you to read the article in the OP. His office has already said that they wouldn't support this request unless the CoS could demonstrate a way to do this that would provide a road that could accommodate more traffic, that was safer, and that would not cost the county money. If they are filming a public area I do not believe it is illegal as there is no expectation of privacy in public spaces. Again, if they're filming a space with no expectation of privacy I don't think they're doing anything wrong. As for being a road hazard of driver distraction? Now I think you're just being silly. Finally I think "removing" the cameras would be theft. Unless you just took them down and left them there. But if you caused any damage you would probably have to pay to replace it. It doesn't matter if someone puts their possessions on public property. You don't have the right to steal or destroy it. For example, say you park your car on a public street- I could not just come along and smash the windows because it's on public property. My apologies, but when did you determine that the Church was building a sewage treatment pond? All we saw was them digging a ditch. Perhaps you did not read the article in the OP? Stone's office has already said he will not support this unless there is a new road that can be built that is safer, can handle more traffic, and can be done at no cost to the county.
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road So you assume because of this that the cult will not still try to get their way and continue Bawwwwwing like they are so good at. I think they will. Actually I could, but I would possibly get v& for it. There are rules about building/erecting things on public property. Those cameras are there to enable the cult to abuse peoples right to use that road. I want to see them removed. The cult has a long history of doing what they want, irregardless of others or the law. Our job is to see to it it is not easy for them. FTFY When did Stone ever give the impression he actually could be trusted. It is well known he is a shill for the cult. I think that the existing road needs to be straightened and widened to four lanes. My understanding is that many others in Riverside feel the same way.
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road That is not what I am talking about. I was responding to the implicit assumption that Jeff Stone will support the wishes of Scientology when his office made a clear statement that they are going to have to find a way to pay for it themselves. I believe that was precisely the point I was making. Like I said before, if the cameras are recording a public place, then I do not see how the Church is abusing the rights of people to use that road- there is no expectation of privacy. No, it is well understood on this site that Stone is a "shill for the cult." It appears that people here have reached this conclusion simply because he supported ordinances that, admitidely, scientology pushed in order to circumvent the Constitutional rights of critics to protest at Gold Base (and I would agree that Stone should be heavily criticized for voting in favor of those ordinances). Sure we know that the Church influenced Stone's decision with the now infamous (but certainly not illegal) booklet on the "hate speech" of Anonymous. However I don't think anybody came up with anything that would indicate stone being a scientology "shill." I also find it strange that he was not the only person who voted in favor of the ordinances and yet he is the only one people around here seem to want to label a cult shill. As for him being honest about this, I don't need to depend upon his honesty to take at face value his office's statement about not supporting the road closure. In making an official comment to the press, it appears that stone is sending a clear message that he will not support what the Church is asking for. And I see no reason for him to support this. He is currently campaigning for state senate during a global economic recession, in a state that is literally facing bankruptcy. The last thing he wants to do is support a project that will cost tax payers money and will only benefit a tiny interest group. On top of all of this, he is running as a Republican. The republican base will ignore many things. Raising local taxes during times of tight budgets is not one of them.
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road Total BS, Pierre. There were only ever two possibilities - either Stone was and is an unwitting dupe, or he was/is a cult shill, in forcing through Alhadeff's Ordinance 884, while brandishing the cult's Black PR. If he was duped, he would have held up his hand and admitted as much, when the facts became known. He didn't, so he fits the textbook definition of a shill.
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road Bad idea, they they can call for a bomb squad. speaking of which, why not call and lodge a complaint about a pair of suspicious objects on their property?
Re: Church officially seeks closure - Gilman Springs Road Exactly. Prior to Gold Base popping up, those curves would have had very high visibilty in the desert land. As the clams have obstructed the view, they should be the ones to remediate the problems. Move those fences way back, and keep the brush down.
