Discussion in 'USA - East Coast' started by anonymous612, Apr 17, 2011.
Shocking truth revealed.
Been there, done that, try harder than the PR bullshit plz. I'm giving you enough respect to entertain the possibility that there's something positive in Scientology. Give me enough respect to entertain the possibility I might actually know what I'm talking about.
I don't want to know what Scientology's team of marketing experts says is great about Scientology in order to sell people on it. I want to know what YOU, PERSONALLY, have found in Scientology to make it worth all the things we protest in it. The things YOU, PERSONALLY, have said should be protested and changed.
Somewhat (lol at "A.S.S.", though): I've seen those videos. I've had loved ones who would have at some point happily made those videos. That doesn't mean they haven't been hurt (and in one case, my relative pretty much had his/her life ruined) by the organization.
So can you tell me in your own words what you think is good enough about it that makes it ok to let the abuses happen?
You say you hope Anonymous protests help shame the church into changing what they're doing wrong. Are you doing anything to help the church face what they're doing wrong? If not, why not?
ASS, my experience with Scientology is tl;dr. My mostly untold story of how harshly they've fairgamed me is more than enough for me to understand that Scientology is a fucking evil cult.
What I can tell you is that I've had more than one ex-SO contact me to thank Anonymous for doing what we do because it helped them have the courage to ESCAPE. They had to run for their lives. One of them even had to pull the old bait-and-switch with his passport/visa so he could run because they illegally confiscate those documents from the foreign SO. These aren't isolated incidents either. This shit goes on every single day and you're a Scientologist who allows it to continue. You're doing nothing to change it or stop it. Even if there was once ounce of goodness inside of you? You can't complain to anyone in power or you're in trouble yourself. So, if it makes you feel like you're doing something great by coming to this site to try and create some sort of rapport with us? You're not. If you want to do one worthwhile thing in your life then start a grassroots movement in Scientology to abolish the Sea Org.
By ignoring the injustices your organization commits, Somewhat, you enable them to continue. If Scientologists actually stood up and said "That's it, we can't watch this anymore, stop doing this," they wouldn't physically have the manpower, funds, or ability to continue. Congratulations. You're your OWN Suppressive Persons, and you are why Scientology is a cult. Because your laziness, cowardice, and apathy allow it to be so.
OK, you are adding in another factor that was not in your original question, i.e. what might be "worth" what you believe is happening in the Sea Org (I guess). You are asking, in one sense, "what ends justify the means", aren't you? That is a complex question as I believe there are some ends that justify some extraordinary means and there are ends that do not. And what "extraordinary means" are justified by what ends? I would rather take that on a case-by-case basis, i.e. I will give you my take on specific issues and what they mean to me and my Scientologist friends, as best I can discern.
As far as why I "like" Scientology? Simply put, it explains phenomona I observe in life, predicts unknown phenomena, and provides tools to effect changes in phenomena to a greater degree than any other metaphysical system I have come across. Is that "simply put"? ;-)
Well, if you are going to insult me . . .
Ok, we can play word games all day, but is that why you came here? We'd end up saying absolutely nothing.
I would love an answer to the question (and you know what the question is) in your own words. Obviously, you're not obligated to answer, but it would be nice. If you don't answer it here, that's ok---maybe just ask yourself.
Edit: I see you've answered above, sort of, what you like about Scientology. I should have F5'd. I still don't really seeing you addressing the abuses and the people who suffer for your wins, however (and those people are not limited to just the Sea Org--they might even include you). I hope you think about.
So, we're back to you're a selfish prick who likes to pay lots of money to be told that your life is great and you don't give a rat's ass about people being enslaved in the Sea Org as long as the pretty buildings are kept clean?
Make sure to keep the blinders on so you don't see your cult imploding all around you.
perhaps you should read about the many court documents, accounts of personal stories of heartbreak and disconections, abuses and much more that was endured by actual ex scientologists? Would that suffice?
I started a list of ex's that have spoken out a long time ago, and it has grown in leaps and bounds and continues to grow thanks to the help of many wonderful Anons and ex's who helped to make it 1443 people strong.
Of course many more people have left the COS, this list is just a list of the people who had the guts to come forward and speak out.
If you feel you can't read these stories, then ask yourself why.
Also ask yourself why anyone would support and hand money over to such an abusive organization that in no way shape or form can survive without having massive deception and suppression shoved down it's member's throats. Not to mention it's brainwashing techniques. TRS anyone?
There is no reforming the COS, it survives on fear, intimidation and control. PERIOD.
No. That was actually my being as nice as I can possibly be to a double-talking selfish Sci.
^This is me insulting you.
Unfortunately (fortunately?), 612, I have observed little in Scientology that rises to the level that Anonymous thinks is the norm. I have family in the Sea Org and they are happy and fulfilled. My friends have family in the Sea Org and report them as doing great. That does not mean I would not like the Sea Org to go away, I would. And I plant seeds as I am able.
Rex Fowler. He was an OT. They aren't exactly supposed to go around shooting people. If Scientology always works (and when it doesn't you must be doing something wrong), which IS the official claim, what the hell went down there?
English please. What phenomenon does it explain/predict? What tools does it provide to effect chance? What specific instances? Have you ever met an OT? Are you clear? If so, do you still get sick, and has your perfect recall kicked in yet? How come so many OTs need eyeglasses still? Have you ever seen an OT use some of the super powers they supposedly receive? Construction on the Super Power Building was started in 1998. It's now 2011. Why the delay? How come Hubbard had Vistaril in his system when he died if drugs like that are so very bad?
Feel free to answer in a bulleted list, but I do expect answers.
Meh, same difference. Words on a screen. Dialog stops.
If the Sea Org is supposed to save mankind why pay them so little? Can the Church of Scientology really not afford to pay them at least minimum wage? Is the Church that broke? Do they just not care as long as they get cheap labor?
I'm not insulting you. You can respond to me. Unless you want to use that as an excuse to cease communication, which we both know Hubbard would not approve of.
happy and fulfilled in the Sea Org?
REALLY? DO TELL!
So you must be admitting that they are brainwashed and or forced to have this happy existance? Since you said you are planting seeds of doubt? Why would you have to plant seeds of doubt if these people are truly happy? Why bother?
THEY ARE TAUGHT AND DRILLED TO THINK THIS WAY.
Either go with the flow or off to sec check you go
And if that doesn't make you go right
We have the RPF waiting for you tonight.
heh heh just made that up. Kinda snappy!
Any "organization" that has a fake navy with severe punishment, mind control, sleep deprivation, improper medical care, a family and friend disconnection policy, intmidation, humilitaion, elderly abuse, child abuse, improper sleeping quarters, improper food, denied outside communication, having their mail gone through, and passports confiscated and there is more...... IS NOT A CHURCH IT IS A CULT
Is this the issue you want to start with? An anomaly? Some guy kills some other guy and you think Scientology had something to do with it? Is that why the judge would not let any discussion of Scientoogy enter into the case? Oh, but he doesn't know the history of Scientology, you do. Scientology always works? How should I know? I don't give a crap about the official claim. Apparently Scientology didn't "work" here, if you think that "Scientology" is supposed to be some omniscient entity that knows all and controls all.
You are right, and I am responding. Blah blah blah Hubbard.
The guy was a Scientology reverend. I have to assume if Scientology would help anyone improve their life, it'd be him. And he was what, an OT7? OT6? Thought they purged out their negative influences by that point.
Besides, I gave you numerous other subjects you could have addressed instead. You did want specific situations.
Of course I don't think that. That's what Miscavige claims.
I understand that Anons can be...aggressive, when they get on a conversation subject. If you're feeling insulted here, you're more than welcome to PM or email me instead. I wouldn't be a very good supporter of free speech if I didn't help enable the discussion to continue, would I?
I see you are ignoring my posts?
Will you read the stories of the ex scientologists?
nay or yay?
So be it.
It will just prove you only will read and believe what you want to. (what you were taught to read that is)
Keep looking at the world with Scientology colored glasses and don't look anywhere else.
Isn't that want you really want to hear and do?
If you choose to not look any further and keep your blinders on.... that is your choice.
A very poor one, but your choice.
I am not ignoring you. I am doing other things than just monitoring this forum and cannot devote much time to it. I will see if I can address your questions from my perspective in a bit.
"monitoring this forum?"
for who? or shall I say whom?
and if you have any other "perspective" other than utter sadness and disgust from reading the actual stories from actual ex members on that list.. I am dieing to hear it.
jesus christ, righton, now you're annoying ME. Will you knock it off already? Yes, you're big and scary and can bullbait a Scientologist. We get it, stop running your mouth and let him answer the posts that have already been made before you jump on him about not answering posts.
I do have another question for you, Somewhat, when you get to it. How do you feel about homosexuality and how do you reconcile that with Hubbard's statements about gays?
You are exhibiting a literalness and love of splitting semantic hairs that I often see on this forum. Sorry, but I see that as naive and/or immature. The Beavis and Butthead school of textual interpretation. "Heh heh, he said monitoring. He's OSA." Monitoring means to observe from time-to-time. I am doing other things. I am busy. I have deadlines. Not meant as an insult, just an observation.
successful troll is successful
Oh god,not this ag...INB4OSA
Possibly. We'll see.
Well, while being successful is a good thing generally, I just came by to say "Hi" cause I saw the CW protesters on Sunday so I did not think I was trolling anyone. I am finishing something up now and can answer a bit more in a bit.
sorry I was a short fuse, but we are so used to trolls here, it got me riled
I would be interested to hear your responses
Somewhat, 99.999% of the people on this forum (heh, make that the planet) think Scientologists are moonbats - poor, deluded, defrauded loons.
Many of us have read more about Scientology than you ever will - but you think that enlightenment comes from one single website amongst the entire world of information out there? You're having a laugh, aren't you?
Do you seriously think we'd believe some clueless tosser that pissed away $500,000 on their 'Bridge' (LOL) standing up and babbling about 'having sooooo much space', in that hackneyed, carefully scripted speech of thanks to COB and LRH? You cannot be serious.
And what about that 'Somewhat'? It's as if TC wasted his breath, eh? 'You're either on board, or you're not on board.'
And those 'metaphysical' tools? It's not about tools - it's about money. Your money. Becoming their money. And your family. Becoming their family. Your kids, their kids. All in the cause of an insane fascist organisation and a moron-level ideology.
I repeat - you're having a laugh, aren't you?
This one seems to be your main question.
Let us say that a person has a job where they feel that they are helping improve conditions in society, where they are part of a group that is operating on that basis, where the group members are honest and hard-working, where their physical needs such as food and shelter are takes care of, where they are married and have someone to love that loves them back. Might they not feel "happy and fulfilled"? I would ask why would they not?
Do you think they would be more "happy and fulfilled" if they worked at Blockbuster, went home each night to frozen dinners, computer games, Facebook, and TV, and looked forward to getting drunk on Friday night if they had enough money left over after paying the bills?
How about not being so quick to judge what is right for another person. What about people that join the military, the Peace Corps, a convent. They all sacrifice for pretty much the same ideals; to follow their beliefs, to make a difference.
Sure, some people join without realizing what they are getting into and want to leave and do leave. And some do not get something they think was promised to them and leave. But, as I said, I can think of at least five or six close friends that have adult children in the Sea Org and they spend time with them and report them as doing well.
So it comes as no surprise to me that Sea Org walks right on by your signs without being struck down by lightning. They really have no idea what you are talking about.
You are doing that semantic literalness thing here. Please do not try to catch me with me own words.
There are abuses that occur in Scientology and I am all for more transparency and more bottom-up governance.
I was in scientology for about 30 years and observed most people paying very large sums of money for quack unlicensed psychotherapy called "auditing" and personal development courses that do very little to help people based on the duration and costs of those activities. I have never seen anyone with "OT abilities", but rather I have seen people with exaggerated
self images who believe they have magical powers of influence and accomplishment. I don't know what meaning you put on "happy and fulfilled" but while I was in the Sea Org, I saw other SO members usually exhausted and in a trance-like state of mind.
This prick assaulted AnonMom.
AID will leave this here:
DEOLINDA'S TAILORING AND ALTERATIONS
514 PARK ST.
CLEARWATER, FL 33756
GRASSO, DEOLINDA G.
514 PARK ST.
CLEARWATER, FL 33756
FEI/EIN Number: NONE
2779 Valencia Lane West
Palm Harbor, Florida
I don't think "99.999% of the people" think the world is round, let alone have even heard of Scientology.
Don't think you have read as much as I but if you say so...
Would you be more inclined to believe me if I spend a half mil on drugs? Cars? A house? Whores? And I don't do scripted.
I guess TC doesn't always get what he wants.
What is your ideology?
Real assaulted or "popped my balloon, touched my camera, spit on my sign" assaulted. If real then he should go to jail.
This thread is so fucking TENSO...!
*gathers tea and cookies* onomnom...keep going!
-is still waiting for responses-
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