Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating Narconon - Scientology has really been "hammered" over the past several months. The CNN week long show, the New York Times, The Australian Senate, various court trials around the world, and the several media coverages of this story in Canada. They have taken a BIg HIt in the PR department and the Canadian and Provincial government agencies now recognize the serious controversies concerning Narconon -Scientology. The Media Exposure and Public opinion has struck an unexpected blow. Sure they can throw a few dollars around here and there to help PR, but right now it's nearly a waste of money, (not that they are unknown for wasting money)? One of L. Ron Hubbard's policy doctrines has a huge flaw? When I was working at Narconon as a Course Room Supervisor, I was instructed NOT to speak any of my own opinions to the Patients.....ever; but to instead ONLY refer them to the TECH! I was told, "If Ronny didn't write it, not to speak about it?" Also, whenever trying to communicate with the Case Supervisor to try and help a Patient, I was told, "If you don't put it in writing, it doesn't exist?" I would stand there and say, "What kind of a stupid rule is that; this person needs some help right this moment, not after I submit some request to you in writing that you may or may not read today.....?" "...this person is ill and needs medical help now; not after you get the time to read about it later today or tomorrow...." I used to nearly "Blow my Stack" at the then Case Supervisor, Marc Bernard. We had some lovely, loud verbal exchanges. What was he going to do; fire me. He couldn't. The same person who hired me, Narconon Canada Aline Proulx, could fire him and he knew it. He was not fit to be the Director, so Aline Proulx kept him posted as Case Supervisor. Narconon Canada, Aline Proulx and her Sister RJ, ruled the Narconon Roost and nobody dared question their authority or power. So everyone had to put EVERYTHING in writing. Everything! It became such a habit with even the executives, that they wrote a lot of stuff that they now regret and will regret even more once they realize who has copies ;-)
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating Fishing? That is my passion and will be a big hobby when I return to British Columbia I think this month will be one of tying up some loose ends in some of the evidence. If it were just me that was giving testimony and evidence, their "Dead Agenting" tactics may have succeeded; but to no avail. I do not plan or hope to spend another "North Pole" winter here in Montreal. But we'll see? Don't like the idea of "ice-fishing",.....,.. LOL
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating I don't think they will look stupid; although sometimes I feel pretty stupid for having been "Duped" into their deceipt without seeing it well before hand. They may feel quite disappointed that they fell prey to such a scam; knowing very well that they should have "tested the too good to seem true waters" of high success rate. When something does seem "Too Good To Be True", it usually isn't true, and this is one of the police warnings to the public to be aware of scams? So yes, perhaps they may feel a little uncomfortable, but I and most people would understand......., I think?
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating I went ice fishing once. It took us half the day to chop a hole in the ice big enough for the boat!
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating Narconon Canada Has moved to Quebec City and set up a "First Step" Program. The person in this photo is the Director of Narconon Canada, RÉJEANNE, (RJ), Aline Proulx's Sister. Questions à se poser This next photo is Rejeanne's boyfriend, (white shirt at end of table) and Rejeanne's daughter. All four are directors/staff of Narconon Canada. All Family. Programme de sevrage et désintox pour adolescent -Québec Notice how they have used the "Social Services" statement in the quote on this page? Source : Sante and Social Services of Quebec ( parlonsdrogue.com ) Programme de sevrage et désintox pour adolescent -Québec Narconon Canada has shut down it's Narconon Canada Continental Office on 6E Rue Street in Trois Rivieres, and moved to set up new Narconon Canada Continental Office and First Step Program in Quebec City, Quebec, CAnada: Narconon Canada Continental Office 449, 3rd Avenue Quebec City, Quebec Canada, G1L-2W2 Phone: 1-418-352-6250 Fax: 1-418-352-6260 Narconon First Step Quebec City Drug-Free Withdrawal Website: Drug Rehab Center Quebec
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating Sound Like Narconon - Scientology? PSYCHOLOGICAL HARASSMENT INFORMATION ASSOCIATION - TELL YOUR FRIENDS healthier and more productive environment: Psychological Manipulation Psychological Manipulation and Induced Psychological Illness As indicated on the home page, psychological harassment and psychological manipulation "mind control" can induce psychological and physical disorders. When an individual is targeted, the level of harassment usually begins slowly and increases with time. Coercive Mind Control Tactics ".....Coercive psychological systems are behavioral change programs which use psychological force in a coercive way to cause the learning and adoption of an ideology or designated set of beliefs, ideas, attitudes, or behaviors. The essential strategy used by the operators of these programs is to systematically select, sequence and coordinate many different types of coercive influence, anxiety and stress-producing tactics over continuous periods of time. In such a program the subject is forced to adapt in a series of tiny "invisible" steps. Each tiny step is designed to be sufficiently small so the subjects will not notice the changes in themselves or identify the coercive nature of the processes being used. The subjects of these tactics do not become aware of the hidden organizational purpose of the coercive psychological program until much later, if ever. These tactics are usually applied in a group setting by well intentioned but deceived "friends and allies" of the victim.....",...etc, etc.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We will only touch briefly on the Stockholm syndrome in this battle against Narconon - Scientology: Stockholm syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Most of the case will be explained by using some of Mr. Ivan Petrovich Pavlov, from Ryazan Russia. In my opinion, he was a genius in his research and his ability to explain his findings. He was awarded the Nobel Prize in 1904. Ivan Pavlov Psychological Manipulation Coercive Mind Control Tactics Administration Manipulation Psychological Harassment at Work There are a couple of more references which will be used in a presentation to show and explain how Narconon - Scientology operates; but I don't want to "Tip the Whole Hand Just Yet"....., ;-) If the government accepts this presentation, (along with all the documents and evidence), this Cult will be "hard pressed" to defend it's behaviour and actions. Certainly, they may be able to spend millions of dollars in delay tactics, but in the end, I believe they will loose in Disgrace? I'm beginning to enjoy all this research. I'm starting to see how I and others became victims so easily; especially being in the vulnerable state we were in. Whether as patients or new staff, we were still vulnerable to these deceptive and coercive Cult practices. Once complete, I hope to forward these compiled research findings out to other ex-staff members and ex-patients. I'm not the only one who wants to know why and understand what and how things happened at Narconon Trois Rivieres. Many of these people want to know the reasons why they relapsed within days of returning home? They want to know why they felt like an "empty shell" for weeks and months after returning home; hiding in fear of the unknown. Some of these email documents being presented as evidence, are very disturbing. Very upsetting to me! I'm in great shape compared to some of these innocent, vulnerable patients, who were "Exploited" for $23,000.00, to struggle through a nonsense, mind control, BS Program of deception and fraud. Only my opinion, of course; thank God for freedom of expression and free Speech;-)
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating Poon the Quebecfags so they can do pickets at Narconon Quebec.
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating lol the quebec fags run this, no need to poon anyone.
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating I agree ;-) Good Thing For a Good Sense of Humour? Sometimes I feel like a "fish out of water living here in Quebec. I can't speak or read Fench and so much of the info here is only in French! Thank God for a very good and quick Anon Friend here in Montreal who translates documents for me and helps me with some research stuff,.....LOL Hi I've forwarded this to my Translator, Anon Friend here in Montreal. He is pretty good with kind of stuff .... This is getting very interesting indeed.... Dave ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think the Quebecers are running things pretty well in Quebec City right now at the Org; as seen in this PM I received recently with some Intel info: I think they are moving people around. Executive(s) have been sacked? I saw Marc Bernard at the Scientology org last friday night in an animated discussion with someone. I'm sorry I didn't have my camera with me. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- They are being monitored very closely and they know it. Leaks still coming out from within Narconon Trois Rivieres; a very dis-jointed organization, with more staff preparing to jump ship. Anonymous Rocks! Thanks; you know who ;-) Dave
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating If weather is still ok in September, maybe I'll come to Quebec City for the Sept Protest? I would love to, but we'll see how everything works out? Could be a very interesting visit indeed,....LOL,..... ;-)
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating Wow! I think the RCMP and their Media are beginning to listen to us and are beginning to understand that this is a Criminal Organization, hiding behind "money built PR" and using the RCMP to further their deceiptful cause of recruitment into Scientology? [COLOR="Red"]Fast Action by Anonymous with Fast Results![/COLOR] I'm impressed? Take a look: http://forums.whyweprotest.net/327-...-listed-police-website-harpoons-needed-68061/
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating Canada and Quebec Government, Please take Note: Too many deaths while in Narconon or Scientology! From: martini@xenu.com-it.net (Martini) Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology Subject: Italy: 2 more deaths (Narconon) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 14:28:05 GMT Message-ID: <3771ed8d.11360708@nntp.lightlink.com> Italy: 2 more deaths (Narconon) -- Paride Ella (22) and Giuseppe Tomba (26) Although this may be old news for some Anons, it is new to me and probably many Canadian Government agencies? The symptoms of - vomit and diarrhoea in this case is so similar to the syptoms seen on a daily basis at Narconon Trois Rivieres; with many patients taken to the emergency and hospital. Some in quite serious condition and severe pain from the Sauna and one nearly died from not receiving his insulin while in the Sauna at Narconon Trois Rivieres. Very lucky to be alive. --------------------------- MURDERED by NARCONON ? Gregory Wisner - Video --------------------------- WHY ARE THEY DEAD!? : Scientology associated deaths ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Canadian and Quebec Government, Take a look at what this Criminal Organization is capable of. Take a look at "Reality"! http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/f10/lisa-mcpherson-autopsy-pictures-full-set-19037/ http://www.lermanet.com/autopsy/autopsy_03/index.html It's only a matter of time before we have a horrible case like one of these above ones appear in our Canadian Newspapers and other Media? It's not if, it's when?
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating This Cult makes me feel more sick each and every day about how they get away with this? These bastards make my Irish blood boil and I will not let up until something is done. So be it. But right now, I'm tired,....good night All,......,
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 8 (3 members and 5 guests) Mmmm, I wonder who the 5 guests are? Maybe some jumped in from the Facebook link to the post number #132 and the photo of the Mountie in Red?....,
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating Quebec, Canada - Very interesting distinct Laws? The Quebec Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms: The Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms is unique among Canadian (and North American) human rights documents in that it covers not only the fundamental (civil and political) human rights, but also a number of important social and economic rights. The protections contained in the charter are inspired by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights. "Social condition" has been a prohibited ground of discrimination since the charter came into force. Quebec - Slander and Libel: As is the case for most Commonwealth jurisdictions, Canada follows English law on defamation issues (although the law in the province of Quebec has roots in both the English and the French tradition). At common law, defamation covers any communication that tends to lower the esteem of the subject in the minds of ordinary members of the public. In Quebec, defamation was originally grounded in the law inherited from France. To establish civil liability for defamation, the plaintiff must establish, on a balance of probabilities, the existence of an injury (fault), a wrongful act (damage). I studied civil law in British Columbia for more than six years, but some of these Quebec Laws are interesting and have "teeth" ;-) Will be seeking legal advice concerning the Executive from Narconon Trois Rivieres, Sue Chubbs post on my Facebook Wall naming me an ENEMY! Even their Law Firm, Heenan and Blaikie was concerned about Sue Chubbs making this Post. I have a letter from Heenan and Blaikie where they state their concern. There was some serious damage caused from that Post and I think it warrants further investigation and naming Sue Chubbs and Narconon Trois Rivieres in a Civil Claim?
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating This ENEMY posting by the Narconon executive on my Facebook Wall was so upsetting and disturbing, a hospital doctor hid me away at a Crisis Center outside Montreal for ten days to receive councilling and therapy to deal with the trauma from Narconon Trois Rivieres and the ENEMY Posting. Those were not fun times. Off to my day job now ;-)
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating This Month Could Be Hard Blow for Narconon Trois Rivieres and its Representatives? Competition Bureau - Home MSSS - Ministry and Network - Minister Health Canada - Home Page
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating "... Comprehensive, in depth report to be published by end of this month.," ., exposure extended to reach western-english canada?
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating On cell browser most of day checking messages. All good. Thank you anons and especially guebec city, montreal, and vancouver %-)
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating Thank God I'm back home now on my desk top. That little cell browser I use during the day while at work and squinting, is adding to me ol' wrinkles...., LOL. Gotta get me a mini - lap top soon
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating I'm speechless as to the amounts of pure win you're generating
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating New 2010 Report Being Prepared Volume 2, Issue 46 - March 8 1998 Revenue Canada (My comments added in Blue) Gregg Hagglund presented an opposition to Scientology's attempt to obtain full tax exemption in Canada this week, supported by dozens of documents collected from the Internet. "The Review, presented to Revenue Canada officials on Monday, March 2, in Ottawa, was originally intended to expose many disqualifying aspects of the Scientology Cult in its bid for Charity Status as a Religion in Canada. However the presenter also revealed to an attentive audience at the Charity Division, the existence of questionable relationships between Scientology and several of its disguised 'front' groups in Canada. (Narconon Front Group) "Mr. Hagglund's submission was over 750 pages including many previously secret Scientology documents not seen by Revenue Canada. Individuals and organizations from all over the world contributed to the presentation via the Internet. (Gov will see new secret dox) "'I believe it is well established, using Scientology's own documents, that it operates as a purely commercial enterprise, worldwide, for the purpose of retailing Scientology products.' said Mr. Hagglund, 'Commissions are paid to members on sales made to new recruits or prospects. Mr. Hagglund continued, 'The absence of any belief in God or Gods, the immoral and sometimes illegal doctrines of attacking 'apostates' and critics using intimidation, law suits and invasion of privacy, the continuing operation of an Intelligence Network now called the Office of Special Affairs, all disqualify Scientology and its subsidiaries from consideration of Charity Status under the Act.' (Make Money - Make More Money) (Even the Narconon Patients are viewed as Products and staff are trained on this Product Clearing process; I was) "The blockbuster for Mr. Hagglund was discovering Revenue Canada was unaware Scientology was operating as a Tax Exempt Organization utilizing thinly disguised subsidiaries . 'Revenue Canada was deceived in my opinion,' said Mr. Hagglund, 'Scientology is devious and practiced at it. They even have training routines about how to lie effectively and how to testify as a witness in court cases.' Apparently neither Narconon or Applied Scholastics, subsidiaries of another Scientology front group ABLE, revealed on their applications their intimate corporate connections to Scientology. (Narconon Training Routines on how to lie) "'The Political weight to Scientology's benefit would be enormous. Canada, highly regarded worldwide as a nation of reason and which had previously criminally convicted Scientology, would provide a much needed legitimacy to Scientology claims of self reform. Such recognition and 'forgiveness' would be wielded as a stamp of approval and sword of considerable power in Scientology's currently losing struggles with the governments of Europe. Scientology neither deserves that status nor have they earned it.'" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- August 10, 2010 _ David Love The Church has so far failed to win religious recognition in Canada. A 2008 article in the Torontoist stated that the Church does not have status as a federally registered charity for tax purposes. Religious scholars Douglas E. Cowan and David G. Bromley stated in a 2006 publication that "Scientology has yet to receive official recognition as a religion in Canada". A survey conducted in 1983 by John Dart and Jimmy Allen found that an "unhealthy distrust exists between religionists and journalists. Well it is now 27 years later and journalists do not fear making mistakes and incurring religious wrath. There used to be apprehensions which inhibited the free flow of information, which only added to misunderstanding. I think several media have proven over the past several months, that they do NOT fear Scientology anymore. The free flow of information and the "expose", is beginning to educate the governments and public of Canada. Anonymous deserves much credit for this; I commend all of them. A dear friend "down-under explained to me that "this is a marathon, David"; and now I understand. Scientology is Not recognized as a religion in Canada, but rather a "Convicted Criminal Organization"; there will be NO Pardon. It does NOT have Charitable Stutus, nor will it. It is now time to "Strike Down" and "Remove" the Charitable Status of Narconon and all other Scientology Front Groups in Canada. I believe this Can be and Will be done very soon indeed. David Edgar Love
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating I think "WE ALL WIN" every day in all that we do here. Where I work, there are more than 300 employees; a good employer, with a good sense of humour. Our group of about 20, had a short meeting yesterday. My supervisor, a very funny Italian guy, said to the group, "If your walking beside David Love, stay a couple of feet ahead or behind him, and if you see a black van pull up and some people jump out, stand back and take photos."...., ... LOL You see, since all the media coverage and me missing a lot of work for appointments and interviews, the other employees have begun to search and read the internet about this cult. They are amazed! They simply never knew before and they are telling their friends. The "Kindergarden Stage" is passing and it's time to enter the "University Stage" in Exposing this Cult for what it really is: "A Convicted Criminal Organization."
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating LOL! I envy your work environment And with them spreading the awareness... well, let's just say there's no stopping the dominos
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating I'm speechless too, at times. There are three media interests at the door right now. One from Quebec, one Canada National, and one United States. Anonymous has really done some incredible work in keeping the Media up to date> Timing is important and solid documented evidence is crucial ;-)
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating Le gouvernement fait le ménage dans les centres de désintoxication privés | Patrice Bergeron | Santé Published 11 July 2010 at 14h24 | Updated July 11, 2010 at 2:31 p.m (Quebec) The Government has been effective in detoxification centers private . Twenty of them will close their doors in Quebec because of the entry into force of new standards . "People who decide to go and treat an addiction to alcohol , drugs or gambling are vulnerable, " said the minister during a recent telephone interview . So we can not let anyone open rehabilitation centers. " The Ombudsperson had received complaints about thirty in 2009 for financial abuse and exploitation including: conversion of checks to recipients , drug trafficking , lack of supervision, etc. . Horror stories abound, but it could not intervene because there was no binding framework to justify it . -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Horror Stories? There is going to be a "Shit Storm" coming up of Epic proportions for Narconon Trois Rivieres, Narconon Canada, ABLE Canada, Narconon International, and the COS. There is a report being prepared this week for the Ombudsman, Social Services, and Health Canada that will surely question or imply the possible closure of a high health risk rehabilitation center prior to July 2011? I wonder which one ;-)
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating Let's close it down before them NOT getting (next year's) mandatory certification. lol
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating A Dangerous, High Health Risk Program? In My opinion Yes. Host: Tom Smith Guest: David Love The transcription below is based on a recording which can be downloaded via the following link: MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service File name: TheEdgeLove1.mp3 Size: 50.02 MB Duration: 59 minutes, 42 seconds ABBREVIATIONS: ============= TS = Tom Smith DL = David Love The format of the time offsets is minutes:seconds (MM:SS). TRANSCRIPT: ========== 00:48 TS: Welcome to "The Edge". I'm your host, Tom Smith. Our guest today is David Love. Dave was born in British Columbia, Canada, and has worked as a realtor, a sub-mortgage broker, and a logger. It was a logging accident resulting in a severe back injury that got Dave addicted to pain killers. Wanting to overcome his drug addiction, he heard from a family member about Narconon, a Scientology-based program that claims a high success rate, and entered the Narconon facility in Trois-Rivieres near Montreal, Quebec, in November of 2008. Dave later became employed as a Graduate Officer, Registrar, and Course Room Supervisor at Narconon. After seeing firsthand the grossly inflated success rate misrepresentations, Dave left Narconon in October 2009. He now works to expose the fraud and abuses that he observed as a patient and employee there. 29:15 DL: As far as I've done researched and heard from doctors, absolutely not. No, even by the health authorities in ... in, like ... I can only speak for Canada, as far as I know so far. You know. I've only had eight months so far to do a lot of research on this, and I ... I've been doing it non-stop for eight months, hundreds, even thousands of hours. 29:33 TS: And there's no medical evidence whatsoever, no scientific evidence. 29:36 DL: Absolutely not. And in some ... in many cases, the reverse, because it causes psychotic reactions, like the gentleman putting his fist through the door, the fights, the screaming, the yelling, the depression, the physical harm, people taken to the hospital. 29:51 TS: Damage to the liver from those massive doses of nicotinic acid. 29:55 DL: Of course. And people going in there when they're on insulin, they need their insulin on a regular basis. Now, the heat has a cause and effect of that too. And they have to take their insulin sometimes with too ... food before or after. Their sugar level has to be monitored. And when you have to have your insulin, and if you don't, you're going to end up in a coma and you may even die. I watched that nearly happen, you know, while I was there. 30:22 TS: David, let's take a short break. 30:24 DL: Absolutely. 30:25 TS: We're going to go on a short break for station identification. We've been interviewing David Love, who is a former patient and employee of Narconon Trois-Rivieres, near Montreal, Quebec. We will be back after this very short break. Stay with us please.
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating Vulnerable and Exploited? 05:23 TS: So they claim a 76% success rate. That's in their advertising. 05:29 DL: That's in their brochures. That's on their Internet sites. A lot of their Internet sites, they market their success rate at 70%. The registrar that sent a letter to ... to us in Vancouver, when I was in the detox ... Vancouver detox unit, claimed it was a 76% success rate. And, you know, the registrars are very good at convincing a, you know, a vulnerable person that, you know, you do have a very good reasonable expectation of success once you get there. 06:06 TS: Well, now, you worked there as a staff member for a while, what, it was approximately a year? 06:14 DL: I was in as a patient for five months and as a staff member for six months. 06:19 TS: Okay. In your experience, from what you observed, how do they define the success rate? And, even based on their definition, what, in your experience, did you see is that success rate, based on their definition? And then what you saw the success rate perhaps should be if you were to include certain classes of patients or former patients which they exclude? 06:46 DL: Yeah, as a Graduate Officer, my post and duties were to interview the patients, normally on their last day of the program and help them make arrangements to get back home, contact family members to see where they were going and confirm they were going home. Unfortunately, many of them were going back into the same environment that they left, and so that ... that put their relapse risk at a higher level, but ... So the relapse and success rate are very related. The ... I was given documents to examine, with a list of students to call that were listed on the "doing well" side. And there's another list of students that -- or patients -- I class them as patients, they class them as students -- but there's another list of patients that are listed on the "not doing well" or "relapse" side. And there's another list of patients "unknown" because they can't be contacted. So, using their numbers alone, I started calculating what the actual success rate was. Now, I emailed these patients. I talked to the patients on the phone. I looked at the computer calculation, you know, the statistics, and there was quite a lag time from when I was the graduate officer until the one previous to myself, so there was quite a few that hadn't been contacted. So I wanted to contact them to see how they were doing. And it wasn't long before I started receiving phone calls and email replies that some of the ones that were in the "success" column "doing well" were in fact not doing well at all and were in dire need of help. And I started putting the numbers together and quickly found, using their numbers with those three criteria, that the success rate worked out to 47%. Since then, there was another survey done in Australia. They didn't know what my figures were, and I received these figures from a person over in Australia, and the numbers were at 46%. Now, when I approached the executive staff about the success rate, including ABLE Canada, ABLE Canada did agree that ... he was concerned that it wasn't even up to the 70% success rate that they were marketing to the public. 09:24 TS: Oh, you said "he". Who were you referring to? 09:26 DL: I'm referring to Brad Melnychuk. He is a head of ABLE Canada. 09:31 TS: Okay. 09:32 DL: That's where the license fees are paid from Narconon. So, anyway, and then I approached the executive staff at Narconon Trois-Rivieres and Narconon Canada. And I said, "These numbers are way off." I said, "We are putting ourself at a high risk here because we are advertising on the Internet and in brochures and expressing it to people who are needing help that we have this high success rate of 70% that is actually written down and marketed. And I said, "They have a reasonable expectation of that 70% when they get here, after paying the $23,000. And it's just not true. We're way down at this number here." And I went over the columns and lists and they said, "Well, just take the column where they're "unknown" and put that into the column of "doing well", because we can't, they said, we can't put them as "not doing well" because we don't know that. And I said, "No, no, no. You can't do that." My experience with percentages as a sub-mortgage broker and as a realtor, you know, it facilitated me quickly seeing that, the numbers, you can't do that. You just can't do that. That's not how you do it. So, I said, "We can't do that." And they said, "Well, you know, move on to something else." You know. And they would come in every day and try and encourage me to, you know, get these lists done properly. And they even trained me in "product clearing" -- because the patients are classed as "products", you know, because they need these "products" to fill in their stats that they send to Narconon International, which go to Scientology Flag in Florida, the org. So that's done every Thursday. And I said, "I can't give you those stats, because they're not there to ... to give you." So, that was at 47%. But now, when you include the 7 to 8, minimal, staff members there that were previous graduates of the program, that had also relapsed and ... you get the percentage rate down even lower. And then when you include the people that entered the program and, for one reason or another, left the program or were expelled or kicked out of the program ... if you include that too, they began and did not complete the program, you're down around to 20%, approximately. So you're looking at some very, very low numbers. 12:02 TS: So it looks like it's almost inflated between three and four times. 12:06 DL: In some cases, absolutely yes. And, yeah, yeah, it is. Yes. Yeah, it's unfortunately ... And it preys on vulnerable people who are finding this information on Internets and brochures. And when you're looking for help for yourself or for a loved one, or for a friend and you're the sponsor, you see these percentage rates, these success rates, and you think, "Okay, finally we can get him some help that's going to succeed." And you pay out a lot of money. Some people get mortgages on houses, they get loans from medical places -- loan places -- and they put out a lot of money, usually, you know, their last dollar, in some cases. Some going there are millionaires, but in a lot of cases, they're not. So, you know, they're putting their last resources into a chance to get through their addiction, their disease, you know. 12:57 TS: Yeah.
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating Coercive Hubbard Dogma? 37:49 DL: Yeah. That's correct. 37:50 TS: From these ... from this bad part of town. So it's used coercively and also, after the fact, they can come back and say, "Well, you said all these nice things about Narconon. Well, they wouldn't have let you graduate or move on unless you ... you wrote that success story. So the Scientology success stories are just in fact a coercive device. 38:09 DL: Absolutely. And it's used for public relations that they use on their websites, along with the 70% success that you're absolutely correct. You have to write a glowing success story, or you may very well have to do that part of the program over again. They will not ... You cannot attest to the program ... receive ... You receive your certificate. You can't. I put a -- 38:30 TS: You're punished then. You're punished then for not writing a success story. It's coercion. 38:33 DL: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. One hundred per cent. I put a, you know, with a happy face after I put my signature sometimes. I put a opposite happy face, a sad face. They made me change that to a happy face. I have a copy of the document. Quite incredible. It's very, very coercive. You have no choice. You have to, or you will not move on in the program. I was held back for three days once because I would not memorize the PTS conditions with ... it's also includes that every illness and all accidents ... every illness and all accidents are because of only being in a PTS condition. 39:13 TS: Did they every supply you with any scientific evidence demonstrating that as fact? 39:18 DL: No. And I argued in several offices upstairs that that is not my belief. I do not believe that. I do ... I agreed with them that yes, under stress, it can lower the immune system, making you more susceptible to disease, illness, or accidents, but not every and all. And I refused to do it. 39:35 TS: Good for you. 39:37 DL: Well, it's not something I believe. I believe that it can be caused from a lot of other things. 39:41 TS: Yeah. Now, this is ... This Narconon environment you're living in, you're an inpatient. From your account, it already appears that it's rather coercive, and they really push Hubbard's dogma. 39:54 DL: Absolutely.
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating Worse Than Mind Control? I think So. 39:55 TS: Can you bring any other books in there or read other things? 39:59 DL: No. In fact, I did have a copy of a book called "The Secret" that was given to me at Christmas by a family member -- some other patients had the same book -- and they were taken away from us because they said it was interv-- interfering with part of the program, the auditing ... the Scientology auditing program in the "Objectives". It was affecting their case gain results. They weren't able to "crack" the patients because of this book they were blaming it on. I printed off a copy of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and took it to the executives and said, "You cannot do this. It's illegal." I said, "It's against the law to remove a book like that from us and force us to only read your material." I said, "What are you going to do next? Take our Bibles?" And they said, "Do you have one? Huh?" 40:52 TS: Isn't that interesting? 40:53 DL: Yes. 40:54 TS: So they won't allow any other perspective or anything which might help you. It's like a mind control environment where your sole source of anything has to be from Narconon.
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating Censorship - Thought Control? 41:06 DL: Absolutely. And they have two computers there that are hooked up to the Internet and, if they walk by and see you do any research whatsoever on Narconon or ... and that there's websites coming up that are critical, they will shut it down. Immediately. Censorship. 41:22 TS: Huh. It's thought control. 41:23 DL: Yes. They ... If anything is not written in the tech, like I said before, by L. Ron Hubbard, it doesn't exist, basically. 41:29 TS: Or they don't want it to exist. 41:31 DL: That's right. Because it affects from the bottom right up to the top of the chain, with David Mis-- right to the top. It's very, very controlling. Very controlling. And it's a subtle washing of the brain. A patient has any part where they believe they have what they call "false data" and they're not having a case gain, you have to go through a drill where they will go back and change your thought process on why you believe that, and convince you that what you used to believe, through your life, is actually a falsehood. 42:02 TS: They call that "false data stripping". 42:04 DL: "False data stripping." Absolutely. 42:05 TS: Which appears to be actually more like laying in false data, their false data. 42:09 DL: Absolutely. At one hundred per cent, you got it, Tom. 42:13 TS: Another brainwashing procedure. 42:15 DL: Yeah. Absolutely. Yes. When ... To become a Course Room Supervisor, I had to listen to twelve audio tapes back from the 1950s and early sixties by L. Ron Hubbard, to become a Course Room Supervisor. Absolutely absurd. Had nothing to do whatsoever with the care of people that were vulnerable due to illness, from addiction.
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating Stubborn Old Irishman ;-) 42:59 TS: Is anything being done about this organiza-- Is there anything ... any patients complaining, that you're at liberty to discuss? 43:07 DL: Yes. Absolutely. I have to be very ... a little bit careful here, because I ... I can't tip some of the ha-- the stuff, evidence here yet, because it has to be processed, in some of the tribunals and courts before it can be released, but yes, I can tell you about some of it. The ... I've received hundreds of emails and documents from ex-staff members, ex-patients, and actual staff members while they were there after I left -- they kept emailing me stuff. One was called up to the executive offices. They said, "If we catch you communicating with David Love one more time, we are going to fire you and escort you off the property." Because I was classed as a suppressive person, an enemy, and I was fair game. So, yeah. But the communications I've got are quite incredible. Quite incredible, the turmoil that they're going through. It's quite incredible. I can't get into all of it because of the legalities, but it's ... some of it is extremely ... extremely serious stuff. And, I say, it is all documented. I would not talk to the government officials or the police about anything I didn't have any documented proof of, or audio or video proof of, or photographs. So I'm ... I'm very careful that way, because I don't want to end up in cases of slander or libel. I want to make sure that what I do express ... and I express ... I do express freely. That is the truth and it can be backed up. And so ... Yes, they are ... Some are starting to come forward and speak out. I was one of the oldest people in there, so I guess I'm just a stubborn old Irishman. I ... I can see the harm it's ... it causes and, when I was standing there, facing that building the other day, I thought, "My God!" You know, it's not only what they did to me, it's what they're doing, what they have done to people, what they're doing and what they will continue to do, unless we get some government regulation to put a halt to it.
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating OOps, almost forgot. Here is the form for anyone interested? Competition Bureau of Canada http://www.competitionbureau.gc.ca/eic/site/cb-bc.nsf/frm-eng/GHÉT-7TDNA5
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating I believe this very well could be a Landmark Case in Quebec and the rest of Canada. One and perhaps two of the few that are and will be moving forward.
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating Goooood Morning! Good emails in. Good news. Off to work I go. Getting HOT already ;-) 49:55 TS: Looking into Scientology. 49:57 DL: And Narconon, yeah. 49:58 TS: Okay. 49:58 DL: As a human rights violations. And it's not the first they received. So ... 50:04 TS: I would imagine not. [laughter]
Re: Complaints Against Narconon T-R: Gov is investigating A Psychiatrist on Board? Good Luck! 54:51 TS: what would you like to see happen to make this whole situation right? What would you like to see happen there so that people are not taken in by organized Scientology and its front groups? What would you like to see happen in Canada? 55:07 DL: I would like to see them stop acting criminally and start acting like a charitable organization. The senator said, "This is not a religious organization, it is a criminal organization." And, in my opinion, I agree with him one hundred per cent. They need to start marketing their program for what it is, the per cent success rate, be honest. People that do come in need to be cared for and treated by professional certified people who do have diplomas and degrees in the health care profession, as the Ombudsman from Quebec has stated, is going to be the case. In two ... let's see, in 2011 of July, they're bringing in the law in Quebec where ALL rehab centres must be certified. To be certified, you have to have health care professionals, you have to have psychiatrists. Each rehab centre has to have a minimum of fifty per cent of the workers there with professional ... they have to have a diploma or degree from a college or a university. This would be a big step. And they have to have a psychiatrist on board.
