Discussion in 'Martin Ottmann' started by Martin Ottmann, Nov 17, 2012.
The ultimate Sea Org document (It's confidential!):
What a load of bull!
Show me one official heraldry organization that recognizes the Sea Org coat of crap.
The Sea Org Motto
We Suck Cocks On Hollywood Boulevard
I notice that this one wasn't "signed" by Hubbard himself. Was he drunken and contused or drugged and confused at the time?
The scan images are borked for me and incomplete.
Could OP maybe do a re-scan or is there another source from which to view it? (link?)
edit> LRon I think loved symbols, badges, plaques, etc., all the way back to his boy scout days. I still laughter at a mental vision of the demented bullshit artist's chest covered in medals he never won or earned, hell a couple were pure fabrications even, like some third world dictator's bling lolol.
I'd gladly design a real coat of arms for the old dead windbag, it'd be a shield made of an oil barrel with two snakes surrounding an ass-hole, imposed over a set of crossed paddles and ringed by by a toilet seat. hm, something like that
Kindly humor me as I call bullshit on the dear SO's fucking idiocy. Heraldic symbolism is kind of a personal hobby of mine, and...oh god this design is fucked up in so many ways. They had no idea what the fucking hell they were doing. If I were to set out to make an example of what was NOT a valid coat of arms, it would look EXACTLY like this.
For one thing, you don't layer colors on colors and metals on metals. You just don't. Gold/yellow and silver/white are metals, pretty much everything else is a color. You don't fucking layer red on top of blue, wtf were you thinking, Hubbard?
Considering the point of the escutcheon is first and foremost to identify someone across a battlefield, the pattern isn't supposed to be packed to the brim with objects and a bazillion colors, either. That's why the Flag of England, originally displayed on a shield instead of a flag, is just a red cross on a white field. It's not fucking multicolor clown vomit with symbols flying everywhere. Or to put it another way, a brief google search shows that one of the more prominent SCA groups requires less than eight, maximum, elements *including* background colors. The Sea Org arms has about twelve or so. MORE if you count colors.
Red was for military might and martyrdom, not for "motion" and "activity" wtf. Red = blood and its related subjects (namely, war), in the entire course of human history as a species, red has always = blood, and will always = blood.
Blue is truth and a loyal nature. There is no "dark blue" on a coat of arms. That's idiotic. There's like seven allowed colors, max, and a third of those are debated. And nowhere on that list does "dark blue" appear, and nowhere does even a normal blue mean the sea. Now, wavy blue and white stripes means *water*, yes, but generally fresh water. Also it looks stupid. Just saying.
And what the flying fuck is the "Sea of the Universe"?
And I don't know what this "alignment with simplicity" shit they're going on about with white. First off, there isn't really a white. It's silver. And secondly, it stands for peace. That's why Christianity's doves are always depicted as white. Oh, and gold is for generosity with money, so that's clearly inappropriate for Scientology.
There is no traditional symbolism attached to seagulls because they didn't fucking use seagulls. The fuck are they going on about with seahorses...?
And that leaves my favorite part. It has always *infuriated* me how Scientology shamelessly appropriates the laurel wreath. That symbol was reserved for the best and greatest of mankind. Not the worst. Motherfuckers.
REVENIMUS, as in "Poisonous snakes are venomous" so therefore if it bites you again it is revenomous.
Six is on too something but here is the missing bits... I see lots of blantant stealing from classic Spiritualism symbolism & tenets on the meaning of seagull animal totems, the three universe thing, the universe is a sea thing, and the meaning of red. It's more new age woo than it is heraldry.
If I wasn't in bad need of making a beer run, I'd googlefu up some dox to support this but it is such a blatant rip off on the things I mention it shouldn't be hard to find.
"They fixed up an implant that there .. people are taught carefully that
any man who tries to save the world must be killed. He must be mobbed and hanged.
Any man who tries to save the world. So I of course, shifted our valence over to a more optimum R6 valence.
The whole population of the planet responds like a clock to R6 symbols. They respond to nothing else.
They do not respond to reason. They only respond to R6 symbols." - L.Ron Hubbard, Lecture 10 "Assists", 1968
Hubbard did design it, after all.
Indeed. And the points I mentioned are just what jumped out at me after a quick skim. So there is probably more I missed without pulling out some references and checking things closely. I'll revisit this thread tmo and go thru it in detail and dox what I find as blatant Spiritualism woo.
"the Sea Org symbol adopted and used as the symbol of a Galactic Confederacy far back in the history of this sector, derives much of its power and authority from that association."
Visually, it is attractive.
there's no accounting for taste
No, it's crammed, red bordering on blue of he beam and here's two "metals" (yellow and white) in use, all which takes away from it's aesthetic appeal.
Martin, it's pretty neat that you keep digging up this stuff.
I just hope that someday you won't have to live in an area where the local garage sales are so creepy and bizarre.
...which is why I stick to just the mask.
Re-venomous sounds about right.
I'm familiar with the Sea Org symbol, thanks. I'm also familiar with how fucking retarded and inaccurate it is.
I believe the anon arms was meant as a joke. The SO one certainly wasn't.
Are you saying it wasn't a symbol of a Galactic Federation far back in the history of this sector?
Galactic Patrol marching song (mp3)
That Sea Ogre shield is all wrong. It should just be three horizontal bars: Green at the top, representing the Cof$'s obsession with money, red in the middle for the lives lost to the Cof$ getting and keeping that money, and black at the bottom representing the dirty, underhanded, sleazy actions of OSA in particular, and Cof$ in general.
Not sure how to say all that in "Heraldic speak", but it's a lot more accurate than that flummery in the OP.
From the heraldry thread 2009, surprised there weren't more ideas floored (I certainly dropped the ball on it ) Almost worthy of bumpage eh! https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/anonymous-heraldry-gimme-ideas.35921/page-2
On Sea Org one, damned if that mantling doesn't look like a couple of tapeworms
The three shit-hawks on the banner? bwahahaha!
needs moar tits before it can be approved!!!!!
otherwise good work Anon
Where on earth do you think Hubbard got the notion that the word 'cross' utimately derives from 'the light of the great fire'? Seems he made it up, pure and simple. Course, my research only goes back as far as proto-indo-european (s)ker, meaning a bend, whereas he obviously had 4 quadrillion years of etymological study to fall back on.
Or he might just have been thinking of the Ku Klux Klan - they had a fiery cross, didn't they?
Nope - he did not make it up. He stole it from Blavatsky and Theosophy just like many other major principles of Scientology's spin on spirituality.
But I'm referring to the derivation of the word 'cross', as stated in the Flag Order. I think you may be referring to the symbol, but in any case the word does not derive from what Hubbard (or his minion) states. That is pure invention.
EDIT: Oh, I think you may be saying he stole Blavatsky's bogus derivation - so it's doubly bogus!
Yes and yes... to both. I'm on a blatant symbolism rip-off tangent of sorts ITT, after Six's debunking of the heraldry aspects of the crest. OCR'd PDF version of Martin's fine leak in the works and I shall eventually be quoting the Spiritualism correlation bits with some interesting comparison references once I get done researching it later today.
OCR'd version: https://hotfile.com/dl/179912564/bd0410a/SeaOrgSymbolism.pdf.html
Well, if you're talking theosophy, the 'active' red is easy- elemental fire...
Blue is water (although they never seem to have a good grasp of that element other than floating on it in cattle boats)...
Looking forward to other things you might be able to find.
And the seagull... well grandma always claimed she'd been told she'd come back as a white seagull: we kids were joked that she'd come back to poop on us. That's what white seagulls remind me of.
^^Thanks... that saved me some explaining on the Theosophy side. FWIW, I'm cross-referencing Spiritualism, Theosophy, Masonic, Astrological, Thelemic, Paganism, Wiccan and generic Ritual Magick references.
So far - Spiritualism (or classical/traditional, non-denominational, new age beliefs dumbed down from Theosopy and combined with more generic new age woo) seems to have the most correlation.
I'm gathering online links to support concepts/definitions/principles that I see in legit reference books that are mostly not online. So all the dox/links I post will jive in one way or another with these offline sources that I have spread out on my desk:
Man, Myth & Magic: An Illustrated Encyclopedia of the Supernatural edited by Richard Cavendish
Understanding the New Age by Russell Chandler
The New Age Millennium: An Expose of Symbols, Slogans and Hidden Agendas by D. Wilson et al
The Illustrated Dream Dictionary by Russell Grant
Masonic and occult symbols by Dr.Cathy Burns
Blavatsky and The Secret Doctrine by Manly Palmer Hall et al
The Secret Doctrine: The Synthesis of Science, Religion, and Philosophy (Volumes 1 and 2) by Blavatsky
Isis Unveiled (Volumes 1 and 2) by Blavatsky
Theosophy: history of a pseudo-religion by R. Guenon et al
Wicca: A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner by Scott Cunningham
Ancient Pagan and Modern Christian Symbolism by Thomas Inman
Encyclopedia Of Modern Witchcraft And Neo-Paganism by J. R. Shelley
(Edited: listed in order of usefullness... so far)
Yes, but David Ziff's name is on it. As in, David Ziff the original editor of Advance! mags, and one of Hubbard's key go-to people for written/editorial works during the phase of the church going to great lengths to define itself as a religion. That was Ziff's schtick and being that he is the son of the famous publishing magnate behind Ziff-Davis publishing house, you gotta begrudgingly give fking David Ziff a lot of the credit for doitrite as far as the bullet-proof way the cult has defined their damn religiosity shield.
FWIW - it was Ziff's name that caught my eye on this leak, and this document now confirms for me that he had a significant role in the "we are a religion" battle. Much to my chagrin... I always wanted to lay that solely at Hubbard's feet.
Sidenote question that is now worth asking imo: Whatever happened to David Ziff? He just faded off the radar. I always wanted to ask Jeff Hawkins and/or other SO old-timers from Hubbard's watch era this.
Also the laurel wreaths are quite solar in connotation. There are claims from the hairy-chest-thumping schools of esoteric thought (one of which Hubbard has direct provable lineage from) that all 'real' religion is solar-male-phallic in emphasis.
The double diamond S sigil brings to mind the hexagram for 'fire' which is two triangles interlinked like that (albeit standing upright and not tilted to the left...)
I think the symbols are from Thelema, but I could be wrong.
Freezone liked Thelema.
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