Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by Anonymous, Nov 25, 2011.
I just sent Bunker an e-mail with a reference to this thread.
she will never agree to it, but it would be lulzy as hell
WBM always had a big soft spot for Mary
She list here scientology experience here http://www.linkedin.com/pub/mary-vonbreck/2b/4a5/631
but does not mention scientology.
Now that's the way to spin a resume. So impressive sounding. I wonder if there's anything in there that isn't scientology related. Extreme irony bolded.
Mary & David is symbolic of many "exes" that have left corporate Scientology, but have valued the belief and mechanisms that drove the cult.. the tech.. and they don't apologize for it. It's reflective of the adage of "...leaving the cult, but the cult has not left you." I suspect if DM was gone, and what some exes perceived as abusive were removed from the tenets of Scientology, they would return to the fold.
That said, I have friends & acquaintances that still consider themselves Scientologists & have found value in the "tech". I may not agree with their position, but I fully support their right to individually make informed decisions for themselves and take whatever path that makes them happy, as long as it is transparent & doesn't hurt anyone else.
There have been a number of exes that have quit the cult and said nothing because they understood the consequences of their speaking out, i.e., harassment, disconnection, etc. Then, there are others like Mary, who tired of the cult and quit, unapologetic for her past or the hurt & pain she caused others. I know of other exes that have approached her on this and her response has been to ignore them. This arrogance is no different than the same shown by Mike Rinder & Marty... they deliver some soundbites to the media, but totally avoid revealing facts that could cause them personal ruin and, perhaps, prosecution for past crimes. Note that since Marty returned from Germany, he & Mike have not spoken to the media. Perhaps this is because the media is tired of contrived soundbites?
On OCMB, a heated exchange has been taking place between Karen de la Carrriere (Heber's ex-wife) and her friend, J. Swift versus Caroline & Gerry Armstrong. Larry Brennan piped in and made some interesting observations... he speaks of karma.. and the very personal pain he & his family suffered at the hands of ex-Scilon (now Indy) Hy Levy, who recently did an interview with the St. Pete Times on the money grubbing cult.
Larry notes Hy's refusal to take personal responsibility for the actions of hurt he's caused others.. that he quietly walks away from... much like Mary..
Larry Brennan's statement..
I thought I would throw in my own 2-cents here to give perhaps a slightly different perspective. This is not to take a “side” but rather to give my heartfelt feelings on all this by sharing personal views and experiences I have never publically shared before. First of all, I consider you a good friend. I always enjoy speaking with you and you and I certainly share some very similar views on things we both consider spiritual. I greatly value our friendship.
Also, as you know, I am also very close to Karen #1, I love her and I consider her almost a sister. While Karen and I have very different views on scientology and Hubbard, we both have much in common when it comes to matters of the heart and wishing to do what we can to see so many abuses stopped.
That said, I also consider Garry Armstrong a true friend as well as many others who think Hubbard was a fraud and consider so much of what makes up “scientology” itself as dangerous. As you may know, I have refused to try to get anyone critical of Hubbard and/or scientology to stop being so critical of it so “we’ all can focus on stopping the abuses of Miscavige. In the seven or so years I have been speaking out I have constantly refused to attack “Exes”, “critics”, “Anons” or other interested parties or “take sides” in fights between or among them.
I figure that Karma and that beautiful vortex that you like to talk about is quite eclectic in nature and takes many, many forms. Some I agree with fully, others I do not. Some make me laugh and others make me sad. But I love how the truth has a way of coming to the surface from so many different sources. It is my belief, and I cannot prove this, that the reckoning coming to Miscavige and that wonderful, swirling, karmetic vortex is going to take down a heck of a lot more than just Miscavige. It is going to take down most of what we know of as “ Scientology” including many who practice it.
There is another reason why I refuse to even try to get others to not speak their hearts in opposing scientology itself and/or Hubbard. And that is I can often see their views, feel their pain and I always respect their right to so speak out. Most importantly, and in my own way, I believe that I understand them as I too have been really hurt by what is scientology. Here is a part of my story for what it is worth to anyone.
Many people who look into scientology abuses have probably read or heard something on the subject from me. A lot of people have had nice things to say about me and quite a number talk about how tough I am or how fearless I am or what “big balls” I have (I hate that expression lol).
The truth is that I am damaged goods like so very, very many “Exes”. Yes I will stand up and fight and expose Miscavige et al for what he is and I will never back off defending a friend when scientology attacks. But at the same time I have had so far almost two years of intensive psychotherapy to help me deal with and cope with so much damage to myself from being so exposed to scientology.
Half of that therapy was needed for me to strip off enough bullshit from LRH so that I could in fact confront and deal with real problems I had and some of which I still have. Things like having to rise above it all and “no case on post”, or being a “victim” as if that somehow makes me a bad person.
I have always tried to put up a strong front in this fight but often am betrayed by tears such as near the end of my videoed talks at the Boston Commons in April 2008 with Anonymous and my talk in Germany. Heck my own daughter, MY DAUGHTER, has had to put her arms around me and console me as I break down in tears time and again just listening to “The Lighthouse Letter” by L Ron Hu88ard, that beautiful Anon.
I would go on the phone with someone like Kyle Brennan’s mother and try to “be strong” for her as I try to help her with her case, only to break down sobbing at her loss every time we hang up.
Look, for example, at the big Saint Pete Times stories and videos of Hy Levy and all he exposed about the horrible regging practices and abuses connected with same. I am THRILLED that this is being exposed and am most happy that Hy is helping so much with it. I am glad to see that Hy felt bad for financially ruining some person covered on one of his videos.
But it tore at me like daggers in my heart listening to Hy justify that $200,000 plus he regged out of people each week all those years saying things like the benefits of what they got (in scientology auditing/training) were “priceless”, how Hy was helping salvage society and how much scientology was improving their lives.
To this I call “bullshit”. I believe that there are FAR more “Exes” who want nothing to do with scientology and/or who have been badly hurt by scientology like myself than there are “Indies” who want to be part of it.
At least four of my therapy sessions in the last year have in fact been about Hy Levy and things that happened to me at Flag when Hy was my D of P. That included me being ruined financially, losing much valuable family time and having to go through emotional HELL at Flag as I would get “tech estimates” or other BS from Hy that were unneeded and downright dangerous. Because of what I personally feel is AT BEST poor and outdated 1950s psychotherapy called “scientology”, delivered by unqualified people, I have been misdiagnosed and mishandled throughout my scientology career.
Karen #1`, bless her good heart, offered to get Hy to call me and apologize. I told her “no”. How can he apologize for something he does not yet understand as having been wrong? I would welcome Hy to my home, my heart and into my arms like I would almost any “Indie” I know but I do not want some apology from someone who does not yet in my opinion comprehend the amount of hurt he has caused and wrong he has done.
I believe that our lovely karmetic vortex is some day to take so many people like Hy into it as they begin to realize how many people they have hurt. I suspect that Hy has helped destroy hundreds of lives as he met those weekly regging quotas. Swifty, I truly believe that there are many otherwise decent people out practicing their version of scientology as best they can who have yet to embrace the horror of what they have done as part of scientology.
And while I support the freedom of people to have their beliefs, I suspect that some Indies are in for some major legal rude awakenings when they have hurt someone in auditing or the purification rundown or whatever and they do not have organized scientology’s money, lawyers, PIs, corporate veils and religious cloaking to lean on to protect themselves.
IMO the ability of organized scientology to spread substantially has been destroyed. The Indies have been to a large degree a product of organized scientology imploding in on itself. I am happy to see that and consider that being an “Indie” is a first step for many of them to get out of scientology itself. But whether or not they do get out, I love the fact that so many of them seem to deplore the abuses of which they are presently aware.
They are helping many of us, so many Anonymous, to take down organized scientology. That is what people, myself included, wanted to see done.
By gallup poll, scientology is the most hated “religion” in the USA. Wherever I go, when dealing of matters involving scientology, people I don’t even know applaud us, blow their horns in support and the like to show their disgust of scientology and not just “organized scientology”. This was not brought about by Indies but it is good to have so many Indies join the “battle”.
Scientology, organized, Indie or otherwise does not have the tools nor the product to “clear” the planet or even IMO to broadly help society. There is nothing broadly charitable about scientology and anyway spiritual awareness should never come with a price tag.
That all said I do so much support the rights of others to have their views no matters how different they are from my own. My arms are pretty much open to all who do not hurt others. This includes “Indies”. But that most certainly does not mean I have to support scientology in any form or stop posting things about which scientologists of any flavor might never agree.
I know I am rambling Swifty but I hope that somehow I was able to give a view in support of both “Indies” and those who have been so badly hurt by scientology by telling my own story. Again, I suspect there are more “damaged” people like me by scientology and now fully out of scientology then there are in. Those people need to have their voice, they have very important things to say and certainly are entitled to give their views.
As a fellow damaged EX and as just a human being I support them.
Larry Brennan aka SME
Larry Brennan is awesome. That is all.
Damn it Smurf, now Larry got me all misty eyed again.
Larry I love you!
Mary deMoss was a very famous charachter in the battle against [or pro] Scientology in early 2000s. She was a public figure, a spokesperson for Scientology of a certain sort. She was like a charachter in a movie. So it's only natural that people are curious where is she now. On top of that, Bunker loooooved her. He even recorded a video "for MaryDeMoss" even shedding a tear at the end talking about her. So I'm glad to hear she is out, and unlike Scientology - we won't harass her. We're just curious.
Great job Smurf.
I happen to know people from Boulder, Colorado. The soy milk "Silk" was actually created in Boulder and it's a very hippy, "back to the nature" kind of community. I'm glad Mary found her place. I suspect Scientology attracts good people in the first place, people who want to better the world and Scientology just cons them. Boulder, Colorado and non-GMO messages sound good to me and I'm glad Mary is there. She'll speak when she is ready. But in the mean time leaving is a good step.
The father of her child was inside the cult up until now. I guess he disconnected her and their son up until now, ha?
Alot of ex-Scilons have migrated to Colorado. Marc & Claire Headley now live there. The creators of 'South Park' have built a "green" mansion there. Must be something nice about Colorado (other than freezing one's ass off in the winter).
David has been posting alot on Facebook. He is currently in Boulder visiting his son, who lives with his mother (Mary).
Interesting. She must have been disconnected from his son for several years, if Mary left the cult before him. I'm glad he finally woke up. It's fine that he is taking it step by step. Many exes first reject the Church of Scientology under DM, but little by little understand that the entire thing was just a giant con. There are plenty of people on ESMB who are out but are still trying to justify the many years they spent inside the cult by saying that the tech works. It's only natural, because otherwise they'd have to admit that they've completely wasted years of their lives and have nothing to show for.
Some of the ESMB people are Freezoners and Indies. I suspect that many of the exes that contributed alot of time & money to the cult when they were active, are now experiencing some embarrassment & humiliation having been exploited for so many years, and are now trying to justify that by finding some benefit from that past experience.
I've spoken to ex-members of the People Temple who were experiencing a world of anger, frustration and confusion following the Jonestown Massacre and condemning the People's Temple & Jim Jones. Today, a large number of the survivors are commenting about the positive experiences of being Peoples Temple members, with some who now have forgiven Jim Jones and referring to him as a misunderstood man.
Recently, a permanent memorial was dedicated at Evergreen Cemetary in Oakland where many of the Jonestown dead are buried in a mass grave. The memorial lists the names of those victims that perished in Jonestown. Rev. Jim Jones' name is on the memorial.
Weren't there just 3 survivors or something like that?
Instead of tl;dr l;MR (long; MUST READ)
Thank you for opening to us and sharing.
I'd guess it refers to people who were "in", but left before the massacre.
Smurf, I saw that Liz Adams is also in Colorado and posts on Mary's FB page...has she spoken out?
Anyone who is as messed up as she was before she got out has a primary responsibility to get her own shit together before tangling with the cult again. Until she does that, she'd be of no use to anyone.
On top of that, the only things I know of that she did was act like a total idiot on video and give us great propaganda. The Merry-de-Moss-Go-Round video was one of the most hilarious pre-Chanology pieces of media. That video, by itself, does more to show what Scientology can do to the mind of a formerly normal human than a ten thousand word essay.
So I'd say she's already done a lot to harm Scientology. Of course, she did it before she left.
The video doesn't show that either way, we have no way of knowing if she was "formerly normal" or what she would be like if she hadn't been a Scientologist.
There was a bunch of speculation on her supposedly lobbying for CCHR in 2008, but I'm too lazy to go digging through that stuff again. I don't think we ever got solid proof one way or the other.
Am I off my rocker, or did she also make a blog comment at one point or something with regards to her crazy internet videos? I seem to recall her blog being a mix of personal things and moonbat anti-psychiatry stuff, and I thought it had a sort of half-assed non-apology, like "I'm sorry those videos on the web" or something. Then I think there was talk in some thread accusing her of being more sorry she got "caught" (and e-famous) than actually sorry she did it. But then again, I could be totally wrong and thinking of something else...
Not like Michael provided dox there, but just passing that along for what it's worth.
(Notice how like 500 people prematurely celebrated in that thread, btw - despite claims to the contrary, I think the old Enturb days were more frequently moonbatty and less "dox or gtfo" than the way things are run today.)
this is how i remember things too - but imma too freaking tired ATM to dig it out... howev, I coulda swore we preserved a cached copy of said blog post when it was taken down after a short while.
Yeah, she almost sorta kinda apologized for her behavior in the videos on her blog (which she deleted).
However, I always thought she was one of the people who went to the hospital to check Lisa McPherson out---against doctors' wishes.
Oh, the poor woman, due to the "List McPherson frenzy" she had to close her acting school. Waaaaah!
And it looks like she was one of those responsible for removing Lisa from the hospital:
someone has crimes
Yeah, see I thought there was a link between her and Lisa.
She needs to come clean about what she knows.
There were around 10 survivors of the massacre.. I was counting Temple members who were not, thankfully,inside the Jonestown encampment when the suicide/murders took place.
I suspect Mary's mother might be out, too, but have no confirmation of that yet. She hasn't made any statements whether she is or isn't.
AMC Publishing was owned by David & Bennetta Slaughter. Mary was Bennetta's executive assistant. Lisa worked for Bennetta. Mary would have alot of information about Lisa.
I thought "Louanne" is/was Mary deMoss
Unlikely. Similar cult-like fingers-in-ears "tech" and brainwashed manner seen in the early DeMoss videos shot by WBM, but I doubt it's just one person anyway.
This is definitely very interesting. She is totally worth being contacted to see if she'd talk on camera. Bunker might have a magic touch with her.
I didn't realize that the crazy Mary was marginally involved in the Lisa McPherson affair.
Marginally??? She took a sick lady away from hospital and helped imprison her, until her inevitable death at the hands of psychopaths followed days later!!
^^^ OK, you have a point.
I was more referring to the fact that she was not responsible for Lisa's detention or not taking her to the hospital when Lisa became real sick.
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