David Mayo Posting on ESMB

Discussion in 'Independent Scientology' started by annoncangirl, Apr 18, 2011.

  1. Let me type a little slower so maybe this time you can understand it a little better,

    In the 60 years of existance since Hubbard introduced his mindfuck, I have yet to see a single example of someone I would consider having his or her shit together as a result of it, what I mean by this is, someone who's mental health I would wish upon someone I cared for, however I can give you numerous examples of people who went insane using Hubbard's mind fuck both inside and outside the cult.

    The only difference between the cult and the freakzone is the cult is similar to a well organized drug cartel designed to maximize profit, where as the freakzone is the toothless trailer park dweller cooking up the meth himself and sampling the product as he sells it from his mobile home, the end result remains the same, the customer loses.
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  2. vaLLarrr Member

    The Dude speaketh wisely.
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  3. I am not talking about that on wich you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT

    I onley point out he was far ahead having great insights into the Psychology of Trauma.

    He laid down some fundemental principles wich onley now surface in Mainstream psychology. Even Cognitive Behavioral Theraphy has similarities.

    At this point in time it is known that no psychological theraphy does better than the other. Onley Cognitive Behavioral Theraphy has a slightly better performance.

    In the end it all depends on the quality of the therapist.
  4. Yes Hubbard was a fuckface but I don't like this "everything scientology is bad" mentality
  5. I'd be curious to know how many people have gotten into the Freezone without being Scientologists first. The impression I get is that close to 100% of Freezoners are ex-Scientologists, salted with the oddspouse / partner.

    Certainly it seems that Marty's brand of Scientology is only attempting to entice Scientology's lost sheep.

    But it remains to be seen whether you can sell Scientology without the con. And if you can't, what does that say about the subject?
  6. Anonymous Member

    Not sure who David Mayo is - never been a clam myself - but if he has info relevant to our mission, especially damaging info regarding Miscavige, then there is nothing preventing "a friend" of his posting it all here anonymously.

    This is what pisses me off about former high level clams. They actually obey the unenforceable gagging orders. Fuck them if they won't help us ruin the CoS, utterly.
  7. Natter Bored Member

    I'd like to see David Mayo and Marty have a totally rational discussion about Scientology and L Ron Hubbard.


    (That's a joke)
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  8. Anonymous Member

    What's good about it? What good has it ever done anyone? The bad far outweighs the good. Eradicate it like a cancer.
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  9. It differs between Europe and America I think

  10. Sure Hubbard incorporated a few raisins into his pile of shit, if he didn't he wouldn't have any interest at all, but it's simply not worth digging for a few raisins in a mountain of shit especially when some of them were intentionally poisoned.

    Many people have tried to pick it apart and come up with something useful and the result has always been the same a complete waste of time. There is nothing there that can not be found elsewhere without the need to dig through an evil mind fuck to find it, At the very best Hubbard's Tech is obsolete 1950s pop psychology, wasting ones time trying to make something useful out of Scientology makes about as much sense as dusting off an old 4.77Mhz IBM clone PC which never worked right to begin with to begin developing software for.
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  11. Well I am for a more Academic aproach. Hubbard predicted brainplasticity without even knowing it and having an antiquated idea of what it was. But it remains the seat of the Mind

  12. Neuroplasticity was suggested by William James in the 19th century. I believe James was acknowledged by Hubbard as one of his influences back when he actually acknowledged anyone.
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  13. No he develloped part of it further to be 21 centuary psychology, He was actually far ahead in this area.

    Hubbard worked on this and put in the hours of research on this particular subject BEFORE any psychologist like van der Kolk or others did

  14. Yes there is contact between Indies and the University of Wisconsin. Someone there sees Hubbard being in the line of people who predicted Neuro Plasticity and actually worked on it.
  15. Anonymous Member

    Seriously mate, read a fucking book on the topic before spouting shit like this. You see a few basic similarities (and those only because you know jack shit) and then make the mistaken assumption that there are parallels between the two. If you do some research and really dig into what CBT actually is you may learn just how mistaken you are about this.

    The bit you are sorely missing is the role of evidence in determining the method. Hubbard, and it seems you also, make the mistake of committing an axiomatic approach. Starting from a few ‘fundamental principles’ to develop a theory is a nonsense in science without an iterative evidence-based approach to back those principles up. CBT doesn’t come from a few ‘fundamental principles’, rather it develops guidelines and observations from trials, testing and experimentation. In this way important nuances become part of the treatments, as well as which methods have what efficacy become known. To compare this bedrock of CBT with a few pop-psychology ideas pulled out of Flubbard arse is stunning ignorance, and quite possible one of the strongest examples of the Dunning-Kruger effect I have ever seen.
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  16. All of Psychology as a soft Science is trail and error. It has fucked up people too.

    Psycho Analisys has been kicked out of our healthinsurance (Whole country) because it doesn't fucking work.

    Cognitive Behavioral Theraphy onley raises it's head slighty above the grain and holds promisse.

    Do you know what's the common denominator ? One person taking an intrest and listening to another.

    ^^^^^^^^^THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  17. Anonymous Member

    Anyone else noticing the total lack of dox to support KittyKatSpanker’s claims? Anyone else notice that KittyKatSpanker seems to be missing that very basic descriptions of CBT are just – very basic descriptions that do not delve into the meat of the subject? Anyone else notice that KittyKatSpanker just doesn’t recognise how little they actually know about the subject?

    Let’s illustrate the fucktard thinking involved here. Doctors sometimes prescribe medications to help patients alleviate health problems. Dope dealers give dope which also help to alleviate health problems. Clearly they are the same thing if you only take a ridiculously simplified and superficial look at it.
    So things like the thetan are not external and SPs are not people? You do see that, even in this most basic of descriptions, there are huge fucking differences with Hubbard’s tripe right? You do understand that those differences only exacerbate the more in-depth you get right? That you think this grossly simplified description even helps you is worrying about the scale of ignorance involved here.
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  18. Natter Bored Member

    For any academics who might actually be thinking that L Ron Hubbard somehow created his own, original, workable technology, please allow me to suggest that you read A History of Man by L. Ron Hubbard.

    (10 MB download)

    originally posted here

    Here's the opening sentence of the book

    If, after reading this book, you still wish to pursue an academic research of this fruitcake, drug-addled, science-fiction author turned cult dictator, by all means, don't let me stop you.

    Anyway, assorted posters, please feel free to carry on debating the merits of the workability of Elrons dreck.

    Don't forget, Benzedrine will help your auditing, according to Hubbard.

    Benzedrine, the official Kool Aid of Scientology
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  19. Anonymous Member

    I was trying to figure out what Kitty reminded me of. You know those whackjobb fundies who trawl their holy books for versus they then try and twist into a prophesising of some scientific field? That is what he/she/it reminded me of.
  20. annoncangirl Member

    CBT does not equal one person talking and another is about learning a new skill set that allows the patient to control their emotional reaction to certain stimuli. The thought being that once you know (understand) why you have these reactions you are capable of changing your thoughts and therefore your reaction. Kinda like when you know better, you do better!! From my personal experience there is very little "looking back" or revisiting the trauma(s), in fact ruminating is discouraged because it can literally drive you insane!! I was taught to be mindful of where I was right now!!
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  21. Anonymous Member

    Would you like to write a Success Story?
  22. annoncangirl Member

    LOL No thanks!!
  23. RightOn Member

    I heard that many Scientologists "cherry pick" what they find useful out of Scientology.
    Of course there are too many contridictions in the tech (besides it being utter BS) and I read that revisting past traumas can be quite dangerous to an individual.
    But yet Scientology was given the green light to mess with people's minds. Go figure.
    I can't figure out why there hasn't been an all out public investigation as to the long term effects of what Scientology's auditing and TR's can do to someone's mind and well being, family relations, ect....
    Guess it has to do with COS copyrights? Screw 'em.

    The US acts all concerned about the amount of fat in McDonald's french fries, and banning smoking in restaurants ect...... but yet they are letting people who are not professionals and who are using unresearched tech (I mean not done with a clinical study) screw up people's minds, just because they fear that COS is litigious? LOVELY. How is this still ok?
    It blows my mind. And don't get me started on the Sea Org mind fuck. Why that whole mess isn't being looked into and scrutinized down to the very last berthing station is beyond me.

    Scientology's slogan should have been...
    it makes sense if you don't think about it.

    and if none of this makes sense I apologize now, and don't gang up on me, I have a wicked head cold and I am beyond fuzzy this morning
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  24. John Basilone Member

    Dox or gtfo.

    I don't think this has quite sunk in, so I'll make it as easy to understand as possible.


    Everyfuckingthing he wrote, everyfuckingthing he did, and everyfuckingthing he said was a line of bullshit aimed at doing one of the two following things:

    Boost his money
    Boost his ego

    There was no further study. There was no research. There was no work done. There was no scientific, medical, psychological, or any other type of breakthroughs that Hubbard piloted. The only thing he ever did in his life was plagiarize work and swindle people to try and achieve fame and fortune. THAT IS ALL.
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  25. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Come up to present time? :)
  26. Anonymous Member

    KittyKatSpankerPeRv has a penchant for defending LRH and Marty, fyi.
  27. Scatman Member

  28. Anonymous Member

    (maybe i am just confused between this and another related thread? but it appears that some comments are missing)
  29. JohnnyRUClear Member

    Stay on targettopic:

  30. ^Come up to present time, mayo!
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  31. Anonymous Member

    Agreed. Marty's berating mouth has caused all kinds of dormant critters of the First War in Hubbard's Kingdom to scamper out to boards. David, Julia, Robin and Adrienne, Martin, oh my! There's also a fascinating recent poster, AFaceInTheCrowd, writing a series, chapter by vapid chapter. I think I know who it is, but suffice it to say he/she's a prolific and humerous author; worked w/HubTard as personal staff, later in films, audio and other jobs. Writes in flaming and funny and sometimes sordid detail how Hub manipulated and scammed, intentionally, how his mental disorder(s) affected him and everyone else, and he loathed, well, just about everyone.
    Oh yeah, and how he wasted millions of sheeple's hard earned $$$ while quite content to leave loyal staff physically and mentally suffer, day in and day out.

    Shades of Santa Barbara! The above and others were some of the first brave Hell No, I Won't Go to ethics/RPF crowd, first Independents so to speak. There were roughly three types of people attracted to Sci way back: the hippies, the loonies, and then there were the scientific minded, intellectual, sometimes business savvy group, who also carried artistic skills. It was never boring during that time in certain environments, especially in California. Nothing resembling anything from the several decades.

    Well, I do hope there's either a time limit or a loophole for the Mayo's to spill any beans they deem helpful. Sounds like, if there's a way, there is a will to do so. Mayo's moved on to develop some of their own talk therapy/educational programs. Don't know anything about them but brief descriptions, which sound similar to many informal "life coach" exercises of today.
    Unfortunately, nothing seems to shut Marty up even when his lies and smears are smacked down. Mental disorders aren't pretty.
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  32. JohnnyRUClear Member

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  33. Diablo Member

    I wonder if Marty is paying taxes on the income he is receiving from his squirrel tech? After all, HE isn't a church and can't claim tax exemption...right?
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  34. I know a person has to make a living but I never agreed with ex-scienos starting up their own little or not so little human potential groups. Bookstores are filled with self-improvement books and just like the 'get rich now' books the only people that seem to be benefiting from all this are the authors of these books. (Actually there are a couple of books that I do like but that is 2 out of perhaps thousands.)

    I wish David Mayo and his kind would wake up and get a friggin' real job. Even janitors provide a valuable and real service to the community and they deserve my respect more than the Mayo/Rathburn/Alan Walters types.
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  35. Anonymous Member

    Seems to me like ex-dope peddlers who start selling their own brand of weed. And every negative interpretation of that analogy strongly applies.
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  36. pooks Member

    This post is fucking awesome. Thank you.
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  37. Anonymous Member

    Been mulling the whole ex-member-FreeZone complex over for a while now and I think I cracked what is going on here on a deeper level.

    There are no shortage of FreeZone-type exs willing to state “Hubbard got something right” or “there are some good things in Scientology” or, my personal favourite of the logical traniwrecks, “I am being academic and recognising what good there is in Scientology”.

    This view is simply bullshit for one very clear-cut reason – no matter what the ‘thing’ of value being defended is it is always related by the ex-member back to Hubbard/Scientology. Think about this for a moment. If an idea, in and of itself, had real value you would defend and promote it on its merits. You would not constantly try to refer that idea back to the shithole conman wankstain that puked it out.

    ITT Kitty has tried to salvage some merit from Hubbard’s crap. But note how the idea/concept/whatever is being defended – by using it to prop up Hubbard. Nowhere is a psychology idea being defended in and of itself, rather it is being used as an example of Hubbard’s vision or genius.

    There are two reasons why the defence of any Hubbard idea by such an ex will always be related back to Hubbard:

    Firstly, the idea doesn’t not have sufficient content, in and of itself, to be defensible in and of itself. Hubbard never produced a coherent fleshed-out idea of value, so there is no actual content with which to be able to defend such an idea solely on its merits. This is similar to the analogy I made earlier to the fundamentalists religious whackjobs. Suppose a fundie claimed the knowledge of space flight was contained within their holy book. The very simple retort to demonstrate they are full of shit is to ask why none of the followers ever built or planned a space craft. The very same idea applies strongly here. If Flubbard really had any ideas regarding psychology that were of value then it is really peculiar that no adherent has produced any research in such field. Instead all you have is vague attempts at drawing parallels, exactly as Kitty has been doing.

    Secondly, and the real source of why those ideas are also being brought back to Flubbard and Scientology, is because the idea is only perceived to have value by the ex on account of them having bought the dream sold to them. The idea is not defended because it has value (if that were the case then the perceived value would be the focus of their defence), rather it is defended as a means of holding onto the dream. The power and sense of self-confidence and whatever such a dream can give is difficult to overstate, and it is difficult to let go of the attached emotions even if the head has long abandoned it. Propping up Flubbard or Scientology, even if only a little, keeps the coals warm for another little while. This is what I see ITT.
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  38. I think Steve Hassan has said the same thing but in a different manner. Using half usable, under developed used car parts to put together a jalopy doesn't make the car safe or the mechanic a genius.
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  39. Anonymous Member,,id=106778,00.html

    He can only claim income tax free if he is an authorized 501(c)(3). Otherwise, use the link. I think the only problem with reporting this is that you have to namefag yourself to the IRS.
  40. Scott Campbell | September 18, 2010 at 2:13 am | Reply
    Jimmy, me Belter!
    I have a good friend who is a Buddhist (she also has a doctorate in psychology under Viktor Frankl) whom I have known for 41 years (I’m 48 now). Her son is my best buddy since grade school.
    She works directly with the Buddhist monks and neuroscientists of which you speak. She has told me of that phenomena, whereby the actual physical structure of the brain changes according to what type of meditation or stimulus it is subject to.
    Your summation of consideration being senior to mechanics is now being researched and verified in the scientific community.
    Who Knows, maybe they’ll even verify that spiritual beings actually do exist soon! Ha.
    BTW, she is fascinated with our group and wants to meet Marty. She’s also read a lot of LRH in the past and says he was “Absolutely brilliant” and considers him “One of the Prophets”.


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