David Miscavige gets professionally psychoanalysed

Discussion in 'St Petersburg Times expose' started by Sponge, Jun 26, 2009.

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  1. Sponge Member

    David Miscavige gets professionally psychoanalysed

    Interesting, seeing that this article was by a psychoanalyst.....

    Miscavige’s reign of terror over Scientology
    By Coline Covington JUNE 26, 2009
    Miscavige's reign of terror over Scientology | News | The First Post

    About the author:
  2. afternon Member

    Re: David Miscavige gets professionally psychoanalysed

    Interesting- I'm not sure about the "mother" analogy, but Miscavige is certainly narcissistic and paranoid- not unlike Hubbard before him. It's certainly going to be fascinating watching Miscavige's power meltdown as more and more high ranking $cientologists speak out. Things could get very messy, Miscavige is reported to have a gun fetish.
  3. Anonymous Member

    Re: David Miscavige gets professionally psychoanalysed


    /r/ shoops
  4. FUCK Member

    Re: David Miscavige gets professionally psychoanalysed

    Interesting article is interesting.
  5. Anonymous Member

    Re: David Miscavige gets professionally psychoanalysed

    a good read

  6. Relyt Member

    Re: David Miscavige gets professionally psychoanalysed

    I like this paragraph:

  7. Anonymous Member

    Re: David Miscavige gets professionally psychoanalysed

    Oh this is very good since it's linked to The Week magazine. I'll keep an eye to see if it makes it into the print edition.
  8. Re: David Miscavige gets professionally psychoanalysed

    Great article, thx Sponge!
  9. Consensus Member

    Re: David Miscavige gets professionally psychoanalysed

    The 'mother' thing isn't meant to be freudian; and I think calling it maternal is a bit misogynistic - I'd think you could just as accurately call it paternalistic.

    What it comes down to is this:
    Life is difficult.
    Think of all the things you have to know how to do, you have to succeed at to survive. You have to know how to negotiate a loan, how to buy a car, how to fix your gutters, how to fill out a resume, how to hold a job, etc etc etc. It's hard living on your own. What's worse, there's this thing called 'existential angst' - Deep down, we all know that there's no objective 'meaning' or 'purpose' to our lives. It's up to you to define your own subjective meaning. But the difficult part isn't in defining your own meaning; it's in accepting that there is no objective meaning. Most people live much of their lives searching for objective meaning - which must be granted by an external agent. Turns out, as you mature, you learn that no external agent actually has legitimate authority to dictate meaning for you. But some people willingly cede power, and allow someone else to dictate their meaning. This doesn't resolve the problem of existential angst, but it allows one to ignore the problem and live an unexamined life.

    What Scientology sells is relief from existential angst - if you believe and obey, you needn't ever again worry about meaning or purpose. And leaving the church means facing that angst head-on - which is a powerful force to keep people in. The analogy to childhood is appropriate; when you're a child, you don't typically experience this angst. You have authority figures - parents, teachers, etc - who tell you what to believe and how to act. In this way, you're protected from reality. You are also cared for - you never have to negotiate a contract, or apply for a job, or pay a bill. You are insulated and protected.

    That protection is what Miscavige is attempting to offer. In the end, though, protectionism almost universally injures the protected.
  10. RightOn Member

    Re: David Miscavige gets professionally psychoanalysed

    Oh he must lerv this!
  11. Lorelei Member

    Re: David Miscavige gets professionally psychoanalysed

    Consensus, that was a very astute comment. Well done.
  12. LarryBren Member

    Re: David Miscavige gets professionally psychoanalysed

    In the past couple of weeks I have had two people mention to me that they wondered why David Miscavige started abusing others physically in the very early 2000s (like 2001 etc.). In case anyone wonders, David Miscavige has been beating others for decades, not just years.

    Here a link to one of my postings on this from early 2008 as well as the tl;dr copy:

    David Miscavige's Physical Assaults have been occuring for decades, not just years - alt.religion.scientology | Google Groups

    "I noticed a couple posts on Clambake where some folks were thinking
    that DM did not start physically assaulting people until 2002.

    I made a posting there to try to correct that assumption. I'm adding
    it here as I think it is important for all concerned to understand
    these abuses have been hapening for decades and not just a few years:


    I think it is important to correct something on this thread. Miscavige
    did not start being abusive or beating people in 2002.

    Jeff's information is incredible and it does in fact start in 2002.
    There are others who have not yet come out that can give many, many
    more examples of this including some times prior to 2002 and many
    examples during that period.

    It may be that beatings increased a lot around that period but they
    did not start then.

    Miscavige was an abusive thug in late 1981 and 1982. Look up what
    happened to Bill Franks when Miscavige removed him from the ED Int
    post, how he was chained in a locked room etc. Look over Homer Shomer
    declarations from Author Services in 1982 when he spoke of being
    abused by Miscavige, spit on by him and gang banged sec checked then.

    In 1982 I personally saw him physically attack three top executives,
    including the Watchdog Committee member for Scientology Missions
    International. I saw Miscavige punch one of the three hard on the
    mouth, strangle another and slap another hard on the face.

    Also in 1982 Miscavige walked into the CMO and Special Unit office
    building in Los Angeles where a public person was being interviewed
    and spit right in the face of the public person as he said that that
    person was holding out on money that should go to Hubbard.

    In 1982 and 1983 Miscavige threatened to strangle people who would not
    help him secretly funnel millions of dollars to Hubbard.

    Much of this was 1982 NOT 2002.

    Have a look at the Jessie Price affidavit for the period just after
    Hubbard died in the 80s and how he screamed in a sickly Mary Sue
    Hubbard's face that she was to sign over Hubbard's fortune to "the
    Church" (controled by Miscavige). Note how he brought more than a
    dozen people to help intimate her and to "back him up". Here is a link
    to that:

    See what a great and brave man Miscavige was with all his backup to
    handle this frail woman who then could hardly stand.

    The examples are many and they are sad.

    No, Miscavige's physical abuses of others have been going on for
    decades, not just a few years.

    See this old post I did adding some questions (three of them in
    multiple parts) to a Factnet questionnaire:

    Additional Questions Added to Factnet Questionnaire - alt.religion.scientology | Google Groups

    Every single one of those multi part questions were written based on
    either things I personally have witnessed or things others have
    witnessed and spoke about. None were made up out of the blue. Notice
    the questions about physical abuses by Miscavige in there. The goal
    was to collect the evidence of truth or falsity as may apply to each

    (For those interested, here's another posting I did to get information
    to people as I was being contacted about the questionnaire and they
    had questions. Criminal Questionnaire - Latest Update - alt.religion.scientology | Google Groups
    This puts the above into better context).

    Obviously the real horror of the physical abuses by Miscavige is in
    what he has personally done to hurt so many people and their loved

    However, I would like to point out that there is even a bigger
    "horror" to himself that will be found in all this by Miscavige.

    In numerous filings with the IRS and in a number of court actions
    Miscavige has made statements that he did not control "the church",
    the very corporations and organizations in which those he has beaten
    reside. One HUGE reason for the "corporate sortout" starting in 1981
    was to hide Miscavige's (and then Hubbard's) controls of organized
    scientology behind countless corporate veils.

    However, Miscavige's uncontrolled barbarity in beating all these top
    executives from various scientology corporations and then running them
    helps prove that he has IMHO committed legal perjury in courts and
    with the IRS. He has proven himself to be a liar here and with people
    speaking out with the truth like Jeff has here, more and more evidence
    is being made available.

    No matter how small or big the example, it is good for people to step
    up to the plate and list what they know and what they can testify
    about. For I do believe that time is coming.

    Larry Brennan - SME"

    Like many bullies, Miscavige is a coward. And he has been up to it much longer than many think.
  13. moarxenu Member

    Re: We need a Hare Pschopathy Check List Evalution of Miscavige

    The reference to "illusion of reunification with a mother" is classically Jungian:

    "Followers are seeking the illusion of reunification with a mother – in this case personified by the Church of Scientology under the leadership of Miscavige - who makes them feel they are the centre of her world and who will eradicate the frustrations and failings in life."

    It is evident that the mother-child bond is the strongest among our biological relationships. Reunification with a mother represents safety, invulnerability, and satisfaction of needs without effort. Every human being without exception desires this paradise, which is an illusion. This is one source of existential angst.

    It is arguable whether meaning is invented or discovered and whether the universe is intelligible or an abyss of meaninglessness. In the end, none of our ideologies religious or non-religious armor us against death and the fear of death.

    What makes Scientology so pernicious is that its ideological system is permeated with malignant narciscissim, sociopathy, and psychopathy in their strict clinical meanings.

    What is needed is an analysis of David Miscavige and his organization along these lines. We have a superb instrument to diagnose psychopathy, the Hare Psychopathy Check List. Robert D. Hare is the foremost expert in psychopathy and developed the check list, primarily to determine whether criminal inmates are psychopaths and would be likely to continue to murder and commit mayhem if paroled. The PCL is the gold standard for evaluating psychopathy.

    Hare is also concerned that employers have a tool to judge if an employee is psychopathic since psychopaths wreck havoc in organizations and, of course, commit spectacular white-collar crimes of fraud and embezzlement. His book Snakes in Suits is devoted to this.

    The PCL and its variants and revisions address four dimensions of pscyhopathy:

    Anti-social behavior

    The key distinction between psychopathy and sociopathy is affect. Ordinary sociopaths are capable are feeling guilt, shame, remorse, and empathy. Psychopaths are not. As a result they are capable of committing serial murder without a twinge of conscience.

    In interpersonal relationships psychopaths are not merely grandiose and narcissicistic, but justify every manner of lying, trickery, and deceit to get what they want. Others are seduced, used, and abandoned in pursuit of narcissistic goals. Likewise, the anti-social attitudes and behaviors of psychopaths differ from those of ordinary sociopaths by lack of remorse, and often by the presence of merciless sociopathy in adolescence and childhood.

    I think it would serve chanology well to have an experienced forensic psychiatrist evaluate David Miscavige for psychopathy using the Hare PCL. We need to have experts do a professional evaluation. That will serve the cause of putting Miscavige in prison better than amateur evaluations.

    There is one technical difficulty I see. The Hare scales all require an interview with the person of interest, which is impossible in this case. This would not appear to be an insuperable obstacle since reported behavior and testimony of survivors can fill that gap. Furthermore, forensic psychiatrists psychoanalyze foreign leaders as a matter of routine where interviews with a person in question are out of the question.

    I order to get a PCL evaluation done we would need to locate an experienced forensic psychiatrist and figure out how to pay for the evaluation. It would probably have to be a collaborative project with the researchers of WWP. Few forensic psychiatrists are likely to have mastered material on Scientology and Miscavige.


    Response to Larry Brennan.

    Just read your post. You have provided critical information for evaluating Miscavige as a psychopath. One of the areas where Miscavige might not qualify as psychopathic is in the domain of adolescent sociopathy. There is more likely to be psychopathy if there is evidence of adolescent sociopathy, particularly if it lacks remorse.

    I was looking for this evidence and you have provided it. In 1981 the abusive thug was 21. Gerry Armstrong knew DM from the time he entered Sea Org as a camerman at age sixteen in 1976.

    He says DM is the only person he saw lie directly to LRH, which he witnessed him doing on two occasions. His brutality with the Mission Holders Conference and muscling Mary Sue Hubbard out of her inheritance are outstanding examples of at least late adolescent psychopathic sociopathy.

    Even more reason to seek a formal evaluation from a forensic psychiatrist.
  14. Kalashnikov Member

    Re: David Miscavige gets professionally psychoanalysed

    Hence his favorite song. LOL

    Pride is a helluva thing, and is one big reason why the followers don't want the illusion to end. Because it would be very embarrassing.
  15. Anonymous Member

    Re: David Miscavige gets professionally psychoanalysed

  16. Re: David Miscavige gets professionally psychoanalysed

    Davey will fit right in. He might even take over the yard after a long and bitter power struggle with the Muslims.
  17. webkilla Member

    Re: David Miscavige gets professionally psychoanalysed

    not just davey - but overall scilon tech: "never defend, always attack"

    but ya, this makes quite a lot of sense. i figured the whole existential part out quite a while ago - its the same thing that is offered in 'real' religions as well, you know, "pray to our god, spread the faith, that is your goals in life now, do your best and you'll be rewarded"

    still, that usually doesn't involve paying nearly as much money - or enslaving yourself
  18. chrisanon Member

    Re: David Miscavige gets professionally psychoanalysed

    Consensus, your post is brilliant. I think it applies to people who get sucked into all cults, not just Scn, and after reading it, I wonder about something else.

    When people first approach a cult, they don't know what they're getting into. They're usually in a vulnerable place (just got dumped) or at a transition point (leaving college for a first job in another state) and that vulnerability gives the cult its way into their hearts and minds.

    Cult victims are looking for exactly what you say; an authority figure who will sort their lives out and feed them answers. Just because they can't have it doesn't mean they're wrong or bad for looking. Existential angst is hard to take.

    Nonetheless, people who wind up in cults get much more, and much worse, than they bargain for. Looking for an authority figure and winding up in a soul-destroying cult seems a lot like going to bed with a guy once and getting AIDS. It's retribution out of balance for following a perfectly natural human urge, even if following that urge was kind of a stupid idea.

    Cults purport to offer meaning, purpose, and answers. What they actually offer is enslavement, dependence, and ever diminishing returns. I believe very few people would sign up for that if they really knew what they were getting into, but because of the way mind control and thought reform work, people don't know what they're getting into until it's too late.

    So, do you think on an unconscious level people DO know what they're really getting into? I don't believe that, but I'd love to have your insights.

    (Also, have you read Arthur Deikman's work? If you haven't, you'd probably really like it.)
  19. PieratKing Member

    Re: David Miscavige gets professionally psychoanalysed

    DM's mom fighting SPs
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