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"Disaffiliation Among Scientologists; A Sociological Study of Post Apostasy Behaviour and Attitudes"

Discussion in 'Media' started by Anonymous, Jan 7, 2012.

  1. Anonymous Member

    International Journal for the Study of New Religions, Vol 2, No 2 (2011)
    http://www.equinoxjournals.com/IJSNR/article/view/13524
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Anonymous Member

    ling plox?
  3. Anonymous Member

  4. Anonymous Member

    vis.jpg
    North Sea Ling
    • Like Like x 4
  5. Anonymous Member

    Full Text: PDF (Price: £12.00)
  6. BigBeard Member

    Interesting. Very interesting...looks like something KaPow needs to read before she starts calling people "apostates", as if it meant terrorist, again.

    BigBeard
    • Like Like x 3
  7. Sponge Member

    Some past media relating to Elisabeth Tuxen Rubin (aka Lisbeth Rubin) from April 2007:
    http://avisen.dk/tidligere-scientologer-tror-stadig-hubbard-220407.aspx

    Translation (courtesy of Dorthe from OCMB)
    ..............................................................

    Flertallet af frafaldne scientologer lever stadig efter Hubbards lære, viser endnu ikke offentliggjort forskning. De frafaldne har fået nok af Scientologys pres og overgreb, men de har ikke fået nok af Scientologys principper.
    The majority of ex-scientologist still lives accordingly to Hubbards teachings, shows not yet published research. The ex’es have had enough of Scientology’s pressure and attacks, but they haven’t had enough of Scientology’s principles.

    Nogle fortsætter på alternative Scientology-kurser, som koster meget mindre eller er gratis. Andre bliver ved med i al diskretion at leve efter Scientologys principper. Det viser et studie af 59 danskerne, hvoraf 43 har været medlemmer hos Scientology, og resten er frie scientologer uden tilknytning til den officielle kirke.
    Some continue on alternative Scientology courses which costs a lot less or are free. Others lives secretly after the Scientology principals. This is shown in a study of 59 danes of which 43 has been members of Scientology, and the rest free scientologists without being attached to the official church.

    48-årige Klaus Heimann var medlem af Scientology i 21 år, før han forlod organisationen.
    »Langsomt kunne jeg se, at jeg var blevet manipuleret i en organisation, som truer, presser og stiller urimelige krav til folk. Det havde intet at gøre med åndelig frihed. Men metoderne, jeg har lært i Scientology, bruger jeg stadig i min hverdag,« siger han.
    48-year Klaus Heimann was a member of Scientology for 21 years before he left the org.
    “Slowly I could see that I was manipulated in an organization which threatens, pressures and demands the impossible of people. It has nothing to do with spiritual freedom. But the methods, I have learned in Scientology, I still use in my everyday life”; he says.

    Under konstant pres
    Under constant pressure

    Lisbeth Rubin har lavet undersøgelsen i forbindelse med sin magisterafhandling i religionssociologi ved Københavns Universitet.
    Lisbeth Rubin has made an investigation in relation to her masters in religionsociology at Copenhagen University.

    »Scientologerne i min undersøgelse er frafaldet kirken, men ikke troen,« siger hun.
    ”The scientologist in my investigation have left the church but not the faith”; she says.

    Alle de tidligere medlemmer har tilsyneladende forladt kirken af samme grund:
    All former members it seems have left the church for the same reason:

    »De føler, at de var under et konstant pres. Scientology krævede deres arbejdskraft. Før de var færdige med et kursus, skulle de melde sig på det næste. De blev overvåget, og hvis de gjorde noget, som var forbudt, skulle de straks angre - ellers talte andre scientologer ikke med dem,« fortæller forskeren.
    They feel they were under a constant pressure. Scientology demanded their labour. Before they finished one course they had to sign up for the next. They were under surveillance and if they did something not approved of, they should repent or else other scientologist wouldn’t talk with them", the researcher tells.

    Fokus på penge
    Focus on money

    For Klaus Heimann var det en stor lettelse af forlade Scientology.
    For Klaus Heimann it was a big relief to leave Scientology.

    »Jeg har fået meget bedre tid og økonomi. I dag tager jeg kurser hos en organisation, som består af tidligere højtstående scientologer, som tilbyder samme service. Her er det langt billigere, der er intet pres, og jeg slipper for den enorme fokusering på at skaffe penge, som er i Scientology. Samtidig kan jeg fokusere på det, jeg gerne vil opnå med Scientologien« siger han.
    I have much better time and economy. Today I take a course at an organization which consists of earlier high standing scientologist, who offers the same service. Here it is a lot cheaper, there is no pressure and I don’t need to have a lot of focus on getting the money as I did while in Scientology. At the same time I can focus on that which I want to achieve with Scientology”, he says.

    Ifølge Lisbeth Rubin er Scientology en totalitær religion.
    According to Lisbeth Rubin Scientology is a totalitarian religion.

    »Scientology søger at isolere og kontrollere deres medlemmer,« siger hun.
    ”Scientology seek to isolate and control their members”; she says.

    Anette Refstrup, informationschef fra Scientology, anerkender ikke, at man kan være scientolog uden for kirken.
    »Virkelige scientologer har lært at arbejde for en bedre verden og ikke kun se på, hvad de selv kan få ud af Scientology. Den slags initiativer mangler jeg stadig at opleve fra de få, der har stilet sig over på den anden side af hegnet,« siger hun.
    Anette Refstrup, information chief from Scientology, do not acknowledge that one can be a scientologist outside the church.
    “Real scientologists have learned to work for a better world and not just look at what they themselves get out of Scientology. That kind of initative I still lack to experience from the few who have placed themselves on the other side of the fence”, she says.

    ......................................................................

    ^note the admission from scientology's spokesperson there, saying that you can't be a scientologist outside of the official church. It's like they are begging to be defined as a cult.
    • Like Like x 7
  8. BigBeard Member

    Sort of like saying, "You can't be a Christian outside the Catholic Church." And we all know how well that worked out.

    BigBeard
    • Like Like x 9
  9. Anonymous Member

    If the study backs up the abstract then this paper could be fucking gold dust.

    The whole ‘apostates are generally unreliable’ mantra is probably true, but only in the sense of where you are generalising across an entire spectrum of very different groups. “RECONSTRUCTING THE "CULT" EXPERIENCE: Post-Involvement Attitudes as a Function of Mode of Exit and Post-Involvement Socialization” by Lewis seems to be the key source for where the whole “apostates are unreliable” stems from. In the paper 154 people are sampled, only two of which were ex-Scientologists (or at least ex-members of the CoS). I bitched about this previously, and found that Anonlover’s exist survey (@AnonLover: just take the fucking credit, you deserve it) was a stronger piece of data (larger sample size) that flew in the face of Lewis’ conclusions when it came to Scientology.

    The study in the OP, if I am reading the abstract correctly, seems to go far beyond my criticisms and possible even my speculations. Not only does it strong utterly shred Lewis’ paper when it comes to Scientology, but if the data it presents pans out then it shows that religious belief has little whatsoever to do with why people leave.

    I suspect that there is an important caveat that is skewing the paper’s results somewhat. People who immediately leave the cult will still have the Scientology mindset, so it shouldn’t be surprising that Scientology is still being practiced. For those who have been out longer who are still practicing I suspect a FreeZone influence. It is possible, and I am speculating here, that because FreeZoners would be easier to find than ex-Scientologists that the data may be skewed because of this.

    Want.
    • Like Like x 5
  10. Sponge Member

    • Like Like x 1
  11. adhocrat Member

    The whole apostate thing hinges on scientology actually being a religion. It isn't. It's a con.

    As I said a while back, there are no apostates in scientology. Only victims and victimizers.
    • Like Like x 9
  12. Anonymous Member

    One word - Wikipedia!

    This article need to be combed through by our Danish members for relevant bits.
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Anonymous Member

    dox
  14. adhocrat Member

    Did you read Hugh Urban's book? We can't let the IRS decide what is and what isn't a religion. As a victim of the scam, my personal experience of scientology is that it is a scam, not a religion. Calling someone an apostate is to label someone rather than address the issues. IOW, it's a thought stopping technique.
    • Like Like x 8
  15. Anonymous Member

    No it doesn’t. The language of apostasy can be applied to non-religious groups if the ex-member renounces the group.
  16. AnonLover Member

    juicy! thank you OP.
  17. Anonymous Member

    I never knew these were mutually exclusive. Got dox?
  18. adhocrat Member

    Nope
  19. adhocrat Member

    Apostate:
    There has to be a 'principle' to renounce. There are no principles in scientology
    • Like Like x 4
  20. Anonymous Member

    Supporting the group, thinking the groups helps people, etc. I'm sure you could have thought of these yourself.
  21. adhocrat Member

    The 'principles' of scientology are non existent. The rhetoric of scientology is massive. I don't confuse the two.
    • Like Like x 6
  22. Anonymous Member

    And this addresses your misunderstanding of apostasy…how?
  23. adhocrat Member

    If there are no principles to renounce, it isn't apostasy by definition.
    • Like Like x 1
  24. Anonymous Member

    Yes I have read his book, yes I agree Scientology is a scam but that does not document that it is not a religion. I also agree that religions often use "thought stopping" techniques.
  25. adhocrat Member

    Who decides what is and what isn't a religion?
  26. Anonymous Member

    The principle of supporting the group can be renounced.
    The principle of believing the group helps people can be renounced.
    The principle of believing the group is needed for the strong 3D to save mankind can be renounced.
    etc.
  27. Anonymous Member

    I do. It is a religion, along with football and bingo.

    Case closed.
    • Like Like x 2
  28. Anonymous Member

    me
    • Like Like x 2
  29. adhocrat Member

    That assumes those principles were ever actually in place. AS I said, I can tell the difference between rhetoric and principle.
    Got any beer?
    • Like Like x 1
  30. Anonymous Member

    The principle that psychiatry is terrorism that Scientology works to defeat.
  31. Anonymous Member

    Same word, different context and meaning…
  32. adhocrat Member

    Could you elaborate? Are you saying I equivocated?
    If so how?
    If not, wat
  33. Anonymous Member

    Renouncing a principles has no bearing on the truth or integrity of that principle. You keeping using the term in a manner that incorporates qualities such as these.

    For apostasy renunciation it only requires renouncing a ‘principle’, in meaning of a ‘tenet’, as opposed to a ‘principle’, which incorporates a value judgement. See the difference?
  34. Anonymous Member

    God
    • Like Like x 3
  35. Random guy Member

    Good obervation there! A cult is not necessarily religious, so neither is an apostate.
    • Like Like x 1
  36. Anonymous Member

    Which one?
  37. Anonymous Member

    Isn't KSW a principle?
  38. adhocrat Member


    When I left I didn't renounce a principle for the simple reason that the group I was leaving didn't embrace the principles of their own dogma. So if it has stated principles that no one follows then can it be said to have any principles?

    If expediency is said to be a principle, then I suppose they had a principle: What promotes scientology is ethical, what doesn't is unethical. If they have a 'principle', that is the statement of it

    Looking at Debbie Cook, as an example, she believes DM is the apostate, while DM thinks she is. It's all just a con and one understands that and the other one does not. (I assume DM doesn't actually believe any of it, while DC obviously does)

    And if the IRS gets to define what is a religion, that's just one more good reason to rethink the income tax and the IRS.
    • Like Like x 6
  39. Anonymous Member

    He is on the big list as Claus Heimann - wrote about independent courses
    Which spelling is correct?
  40. AnonLover Member

    oh-you....jpg
    • Like Like x 1

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