DISCUSSION THREAD: List of everything CO$ charges money for

Discussion in 'Projects' started by Anonymous, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. Anonymous Member

    I've sent a PM to the clear CL project thinking maybe some assistance could be gained with this operation.
  2. Anonymous Member

    So maybe a retarded question, but please tell me that you have used the search function here. There are buttloads of Service Costs. 2013? IDK, but if we don't have it, one of the ex's does.
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  3. Anonymous Member

    I did,to some extent however, i was swamped with information.This is a very big research project. It will require a lot of reading. Combine this with reading/ interpreting the federal tax code as well as state/ codes, Bureaucratic jargon, + scilon jargon, and you get a very ugly, headache inducing problem. Combine that with the year quickly ending, and my work load gets super busy until June.

    Also, those services on CL, appear to be taxable. The Tax code covering UBI and churches is very controversial, and unclear. to clarify, if a church were to hold a car wash fundraiser on a regular basis,for say cancer, they would have to pay taxes on the funds raised, because car washes are a business. Yet if that same church were to sell peanuts and candy in the aisles during a sermon, then the sales from that would not be taxable because its counted as convenience. That is the simplest way to sum up the tax code, ridiculous, insane, and strange.

    But the CL classes are taxable because they are held on a regular basis, do not actively preach sermons on dinetics or lrh, and copy another business, which is counseling done by psychs.

    I wish i had more time to explain this better. Its very complicated, which is probably why the IRS has not pursued this more, as well as why this has fallen off of the radar of state agencies. However, the goal of this operation is not to revoke the tax exempt status, but to tie up their money, resources, and time with tax nonsense. Its a very nasty, passive way to perma troll them.

    Worse still, this is like falling down a rabbit hole into hell. As i read the tax code, more questions occur to me. Do they pay for the adds on Craigs list? IF so, those that count as a contractor? If it does, then that means that they are liable for more taxes. See how this escalates? Don't even mention the fringe benefit tax either, the more i read into that, the more i see the whole damn sea org going to jail. And CCHR? I need more dox, but it looks like that not only are they lobbying, but their fundraisers may also incur a tax liability.

    IF we manage to get local, state, or federal authorities looking into this, then the investigations will tie up all parties involved for years. As i see it, if all we do is scare the scilons with this operation, then the tax paranoia should cripple them for years to come.So the operation doesn't even have to get an investigation to be a success. All we have to do is either bring about outside scrutiny, or inside paranoia, and we win.

    But yeah, this project has the potential to be really nasty on them. I haven't even started looking at the Florida or California tax codes either, so that will make things worse. The only downside is that it sucks having to dig thru the docs, this requires truck loads of docs.
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  4. Anonymous Member

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  6. Anonymous Member

    Perhaps the first thing you need to do is find out exactly how nasty their tactics were against the IRS over many decades until the IRS caved. I applaud your enthusiasm, just be sure you know how long they can withstand such an operation. Hopefully less than the last time.
  7. I can work on this. I'll try at least.
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  8. anonysamvines Member

    yes they did then ...
    what numbers of scilons were available to be mobilised then? what number are available now?
    What quality of scilons minds were available then compared to now ... since most with real expertise have died, blown or are in the hole?
    Then (pre computers and web) the scilons were the ones with the only means of speedily and easily coordinating the wide spread action and info gathering etc. Not the IRS. Nor did the IRS then have a volunteer army of SP's working with them. Nor did they have the available experience and detailed knowledge of how Co$ works in reality as opposed to what it says - as WE do now!
    Then it was almost impossible to get any real info or dox ... Now?

    Co$ succeeded then, in large part, due to overwhelming the IRS with many many many small suits against them. Co$ didn't care about winning or losing the individual cases - just the harassment value! Grinding the IRS down by diverting limited resources away from their main business focus.
    How delicious to turn that tactic against them,

    Co$ has been coasting along on that decision, pushing the limits and riding rough shod of meaning to their advantage.
    Just as they have in court cases.
    Just as they have found that coming back to bite their ass in the legal cases, they may find it so in this case.

    The OP keeps pointing out how much the IRS rules keep changing ... and always to increase the tax burden by seemingly small liabilities - which soon add up. Does any Anon think Co$ has been doing due diligence on this stuff?

    He isn't asking others to do all the work ... just that Anons point him in the direction of the info. That Anons remember his op and drop off any tidbits, however small, his way. That any Anon who can and wants to, help him make sense of areas outside his expertise or ability to trawl through ALL the threads here to get the nuggets. That he is open to help from anyone who cares to. You know, the kind of stuff we often do all the time ....

    Slappy and Co$ is currently in a much, much, much weaker position today than they were then - even without all the attacks on legal fronts (both current and yet tba, US and globally), Soopah Powerz, GAT II, Idle Morgues fiasco, bad publicity etc etc consuming their focus.
    Their tactics are known now.
    We (wog world) have learnt and progressed in that time ... meanwhile Co$, and especially Slappy, have actually devolved. They have grown very arrogant about and dependant upon that IRS agreement and ability to intimidate,

    They have gotten very slack about keeping track of it - especially in their attempts to nullify seemingly unrelated law suits - eg in the Desmond case they legally stated that NNGA was entirely independant of NN INT (who merely licensed and oversaw the tech) whilst NNGA uses the NN INT's tax code (or whatever you USfags call it) to get the benefit. A usage specifically denied under the IRS agreement - as pointed out by the amazing Big Beard.
    That one instance has many ramifications ... in future cases, now that it is recorded in legal testimony.

    When Co$ and its entities are playing "not us yer honour, we are separate bodies" cards their claim can be disproved via their tax filings. When they are claiming to come under the IRS exemptions they can be questioned about their legally SWORN testimony that they are separate.

    Little details that add up to a whole shit heap of trouble.

    Nor can he do any revisionist double dealings on the filings of tax forms ... or on the sworn testimony already on record.

    Sensible lawyers suing Co$ for ANYTHING should and will be looking at this kind of stuff. Wise ones should be hiring Big Beard as a consultant behind the scenes.

    Slappy has these boards monitored ... let's add to his woes and keep on kicking while he/they are down
    He knows they are vulnerable to ANY concerted follow through on their financial dealings.
    He has no idea just HOW vulnerable.
    Or where and when ...

    He certainly doesn't have the manpower or ability to deal with it,

    Good luck OP ... have you met Big Beard? Your interests and specialised knowledge may be very compatible, both complimentary and complementary.
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  9. RightOn Member

    isn't it easier to say they charge for everything except their free stress test? LOL
  10. Anonymous Member

    re: the ^ separate bodies argument, i am unsure this if this is relevant or not though when i sent it to an individual involved in a CO$ case they said it might be useful in proving jurisdictional issues, so i'll put it here....

    i was doing 'who is' searches on david miscavige websites....(and i need to go back to continue with ALL their websites)....but just focusing on HIS domains i found the following---and all my 'who is' searching was done on network solutions.... are both owned by the CSI. The address given is their 6331 Hollywood Blvd. building. The site servers' are and is also owned by the CSI. With the same 6331 Hollywood Blvd address and phone number, but they added a suite # of 1200. In this registry, there is a name of a registrant. Anne Labourdique, whom via google, I found is in the OSA, which is of course a branch of CSI.

    Why are some of his sites owned, hosted and registed by CSI? He's trying to claim CSI is totally separate from the RTC. are all owned by the RTC with the address of 1710 Ivar Ave. Suite #1100, which of course is the same building as 6331 Hollywood Blvd, that's just the side door of the building. Some of the servers are and and some of them are hosted on outside source servers.

    The .org/ are hosted on the scientology servers. and .org were both created the same day, 4-27-2000. To me, all his sites, should be on RTC servers and reigstered to RTC; but they are not.

    the outside servers are usually the same 4 series of server #s, just in different order.
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  11. Anonymous Member

    on the top link if you go the celebrity centre price list, for the books you want to order, it says to include SALES they're collecting sales tax on books....they don't have an * by some books to denote that some are 'scripture' that would make them tax to me, that implies they should then file taxes with the state, correct? or do they just collect the tax and not submit it to the state?

    i have to admit a lot of this tax stuff is confusing to me, but i read (in another forum i believe) scriptures/related sacred texts wouldn't be taxable.....yet according to that order sheet there, they are taxing them.....hmmmm.....they are NOT requesting tax on the 'services' you can pre-pay for on that flier.....
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  12. rickybobby Member

    This thread is for discussion of CoS Tax Exemption and possible strategies for use of the tax code. There is a separate thread as a repository for the DOX and other references. The discussion is separated from the DOX themselves for clarity and to allow coherent discussion without wading through multiple pages. If you have a link or a copy of a relevant doc, please post it in this thread:

    Below are posts from other threads that are relevant to this project that will help guide what dox we gather.
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  13. rickybobby Member

    Here is a cut and paste of relevant posts from other threads:
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  14. rickybobby Member
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  15. rickybobby Member
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  16. rickybobby Member

    Here is a reference linked to in another thread-- this is good for basic research:
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  17. Anonymous Member

    Unsure if this should be here or the Squirrel busting/tax thread, I think is the appropriate one though....I wanted to say what i'm gonna start looking into....i'm gonna continue with the domain name searches----who they're registered to, etc because it sort of ties them all together.....then as i discovered on that one price sheet for the Celebrity Centre LA they were collecting sales tax on BOOKS in 2011 (even though I think in another thread it was stated they could claim they were sacred texts and NOT tax them) i want to look into flyers for different places, see if they are charging tax, then check with local and state online records to see if they PAID the taxes they collected to them....and also why the SERVICES wouldn't have been taxable at the celebrity centre--especially if it included an overnight stay.....

    those will be my focuses, unless someone wants to divert me elsewhere....i planned on doing the domains anyway and i am very intrigued about the sales tax collection.....
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  18. rickybobby Member

    It looks to me like if they are equivalent to "bible" then they are tax exempt. I still think it is worth collecting examples to show inconsistency in tax collection and also to show that these are not ISOLATED examples. We are trying to establish a PATTERN here. We already have many examples of them "charging" for classes. Price lists are another clear way to establish a pattern of charging for services. I am also wondering about "freeloader" debt. How can they represent nontaxable donations as a "debt." If they are charging for all these classes and sending dunning letters, how can they also represent the monies paid for these classes as "donations" and "voluntary?"
  19. tinfoilhatter Member

  20. tinfoilhatter Member

    never mind, i realize that my last post wont have any relevance there, and i do not want to dox that anon to death.
  21. Anonymous Member

    Yeah, that's what threw me off when I saw that brochure/flier from the Celebrity Centre with a book order form and it said to include applicable SALES TAX when I believe in this thread or another, it's pretty clear via tax law that if that is your religious SCRIPTURE then you don't have to collect tax. That's why I'd like to look into that more and also see if they sent the collected tax to the state(s)! And as we saw with the hotel tax in Florida, their other Celeb Centres I think double as hotels at times (that might be murky there, I'd have to study the Florida case more, etc). I believe there will be a pattern established with book orders---I mean if the forms say "add applicable sales tax" then that implies they collected it! I'll follow that.

    And "freeloader debt" is an excellent question!! There are many people who actually PAID it in full or paid some of it partially! Now, that wasn't legally enforceable (and if they wanted to counter with a request for back wages, overtime, benefits, etc, well that's another issue) but if they paid it, what did the CO$ file that under?? a 'donation'? It was NOT. It was paid UNDER DURESS, under threat of being cut off from friends and family.

    Classes/auditing, I have never understood when they claim it's 'voluntary' and it's like any other church when someone decides to give. No it's not! There is no deposit box on the bible where you have to insert so much money before you can read certain things.

    What of all the constant fundraising? I mean, aren't there fliers or internal emails that say you earn 10% of the donations you raise? I know I read that somewhere. Isn't THAT taxable income? Or isn't that some form of inurement? People aren't donating for the reg to take a % for themselves.

    At least for patterns, they are VERY good at leaving paper trails and trails all over the internet!!
  22. tinfoilhatter Member

    Here is a Wikipedia article i find interesting

    "The LDS Church maintains an internal audit department that provides its certification at each annual general conference that contributions are collected and spent in accordance with established church policy."

    So does Co$ have something similar?

    That stuff on the UBI is very very interesting, as well as the fringe benefits. Technically, sea org is paid in fringe benefits, so if they take classes over $5250 then Co$ shouldn't be writing this off as pay. Are they? Or do they have to pay for the classes as well? Is their a discount for them?

    Another question, is how are churches treated for nationality reasons? Are they the same as an international corporation, or are they considered a private entity, or a public entity?this is important when you consider that over seas staff is sent to america for the training as part of the "benefits" of being staff, so technically, that would be a taxable fringe benefit.

    This topic interests me greatly due to my major. When i get free time i will try to look up the tax code issues as well. the problem, is as we look at the way Co$ operates, their practices raise more questions then answers.
  23. rickybobby Member

    I downloaded the CoS brochure they give out to tax preparers and donators to explain the deductibility of donations called "Information on Taxes and Your Donations." Their 2008/2009 booklet states:

    "almost every contribution you make to a Scientology org or mission will qualify for the charitable contribution deduction except for three very specific kinds of payments: (1) payments for services directed to some specific personal concern, (2) payments for courses that are primarily non-religious, and (3) payments to purchase tangible religious materials such as books, cassette tape-recordings and E-Meter religious artifacts.

    They specifically state that marriage counseling and classes to deal with some area of life are NOT tax deductible. And if you look in the DOX thread, we clearly have several classes they are charging money for.

    Now, I am not sure if that makes the income from them TAXABLE INCOME, but those who pay for that stuff CANNOT deduct it.

    Link to PDF download:
  24. rickybobby Member

    A thought provoking comment on TonyO's site today:

    Maybe we can help poke the sleeping giants.......
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  25. Anonymous Member

    I have some questions on "auditing".I am under the impression from what i have seen(mostly indies) that they charge for the "auditing". Do they really charge for that? Who makes the money from it? They claim it to be a religious artifact, yet they parade it around for all to see for their free stress tests. Can someone explain to me the finical aspects of an auditor, what does the service entail, how much they charge, and what are the fees and qualifications of an auditor. Where does the money go? Am i correct in that a sec chec requires the use of the "e-meter" and some of those are $2000 and up?
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  26. Anonymous Member

    You have heard of search engines, am I right?
  27. Don't forget to look into WISE revenue.
  28. Anonymous Member

    Yeah the fraud list isn't very useful but I did a search on the site and found something interesting - IRS Disclosure & Privacy Law Guide - a searchable PDF.

    The document contains a number of references to cases or law specific to Co$. It may be useful, it may be not, but I've attached it for perusal.

    I'm not a USAfag so I dunno what to make of all the contexts presented.

    EDIT: Oops, I missed something else on that page that came up in the 'scientology' search. I thought it was maybe a PDF but it's a web page.

    It's called Revenue Rulings Archive - 1978

    Seems to be for all kinds of situations involving charities, non-profits and such:

    Attached Files:

  29. Anonymous Member

  30. Anonymous Member

    Somewhat of a derail, what are the regulations and taxes for being a licensed counselor, and wouldn"t co$ get in trouble for advertising counseling with out those licenses.
  31. Anonymous Member

    I can do some sketchy speculation for you about this, because it's been on my mind for awhile.

    I think that different segments of a country may have different regulations; rigid or flexible regulations, or no regulations.

    For example, USA has States, Canada has Provinces. I think Australia is similar in this respect but again, this is speculation.

    I'm in Canada, and I believe that most Provinces have regulations amounting to a licensing of practitioners of Counseling for Marriage and such.

    Many must have University credentials in Psychology, and at least an MA, in order to qualify for licensing, but these may differ from Province to Province. There may be Provinces that accept "Certificates" earned in College Courses, as distinct from University Credit/Degree Courses.

    Figuring all of this out for States, Provinces, Counties, different countries and so forth, would be a very large undertaking because in many cases, the issue moves deeply into legal territory.

    However, it's probably a very worthwhile project with respect to the Clear the cult off of Craigslist Project, and the aggregation of lists of products and services delivered by the cult for the UBI and Taxation Project(s).


    To address the question you've raised, I think - Yes - the cult could be sanctioned or even prosecuted if it was found to be advertising and performing services that it fails to qualify for.
  32. Anonymous Member


    This tax code stuff has gotten out of hand real fast. I am hunting down certain volumes, court cases, and asking subtle questions from various people knowledgeable in these areas. When i get some concrete answers, i will post them here. there is no doubt that Co$ is not paying taxes that they owe.
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  33. Anonymous Member


    this concept of an illegal pre-clear makes things very interesting.
  34. Anonymous Member

    Does anyone have links or know where to find the prices for the kind of junk shown below?

    A Necktie.
    cult cross money-clip-1.jpg
    A Money Clip.
    Jewellry 1.jpg

    Often seen in the context below:


    Then there is all that OT bracelet shit, like Tony Ortega owns.
  35. Anonymous Member

    This was the only 990 easy found on Scientology from all their known orgs on file here. also one of the orgs appears to no longer be registered. its the one in Indianapolis.

    I don't know if this helps the op or not, but apparently, if i understand this site correctly, then they are either filing as something other than a 501c, or there information is not available at this site.

    Attached Files:

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  36. Anonymous Member

    Ok, Based on what i have seen, the other orgs must be filing under a different group, this is from the search classification on that website as "scientology" so i will play around later and see what shows up under their other names. those assets appear to be too low to be anything located in california. My hunch, is someone who did not know what they were doing filed that 990 easy. So they may be filing as a 501c under an umbrella organization. This may be the "silver bullet".
    this is a discrepancy(too old to matter now, maybe) but from what we have on mr black robs thread, as well as the very nice list you guys are making, once i get a better look at their 990s(if they are at that site under a different search criteria) i can get a realistic idea of what they are claiming as assets, and we can hit them with ubi charges.

    the other benefit, is we can see what their incoming cash is based on the orgs, with a little bit of math and assessing the paper trail co$ made public, we can figure out how big they really are.

    Based on the changes going on inside the cult, i doubt that they have outsiders doing their taxes. Any honest accountant would run away after the first week. I also doubt that they have anyone that knows what they are doing filling their taxes. I also doubt that a high school dropout could realize all the different ways that they are liable for, and how complicated and unfair the american tax code is.

    Lets hope DM never made enemies out of a law maker, because if he did, there will be other taxes written into very obscure places that will affect him. and that will require a lot of digging.
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  37. Anonymous Member

    Hey, that has the name of whoever they paid to do the taxes. I wonder if that guy is legitimate, a scilon, or some hr block stooge.
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  38. Anonymous Member

  39. Anonymous Member

    That suggests that the cult uses eBay to market that kind of shit. I doubt that but I'll check it out.

    Also, I'll do some searching and proxy investigations of what searches reveal for cult jewellery for sale.

    I asked about this, optimistically thinking someone might have links archived somewhere. I'll switch back to my default setting of pessimism.
  40. Anonymous Member

    From what i understand, the jewelry was contracted out by the cult, but the people that made it had trouble getting paid. So the people that used to make shit for CO$ stopped, and warned everyone else that the cult does not pay its bills.

    I have been watching the jewelery too, because in the dodd frank law, there is a provision for "conflict minerals" and i am suspicious that the cult does not care where it gets its diamonds, tin, and rare earth metals from. the thing about it, is that every other electronics manufacture has come out and made a statement about if they have conflict minerals or not, except co$. They make those e-meters on gold base, e-meters are electronic, so where the hell is the conflict mineral statement from the cult?
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