Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

And i knew that Scientology is nothing than a scam before you knew.

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

Here's a "bottom line" for me. "Ex's" hoarding shite like this for 20 years are as guilty if not more so of the acts than the person who committed them. To come out now, 20 years too late more than likely to achieve even a civil judgment, is a singular display of covering one's own ass at the potential expense of allowing such things to happen to others and somehow reconciling being OK with that over the course of 20 years.

I don't want to hear bullshit about, "The person who made the recording would have gone to jail and not the abuser!! 20 years ago that's JUST what would have happened." No, wrong, NOT the case at all and I won't buy into bullshit arguments to the contrary. I know people who have made careers out of Child Protection Services work (FAR longer than 20 years) who have been directly involved in LDS related issues over the same period of time.

Somebody would have responded by launching an investigation; even in Texas. Now all you've got is evidence of somebody covering shite up until it looks more like revenge than it does a public service meant to inform about an abusive cult.

WTG all you fuckers out there who are sitting on evidence like this. Do any of you sick fucks ever pause for a moment to think of what percentage of the "cone of silence" and continuing abuses your particular little slice of communal guilt is? Ever pause for a moment to think if you'd spoke up the cult would be GONE!

Getting real tired of "ex's" who apparently think they don't have to carry water in this battle. Getting very close to saying "fuck them let them rot," and according to most of the people I talk with on here that'd be a "bad thing" if we all started feeling that way. I suggest whoever else is sitting on shit like this get off their asses, hire a lawyer if it implicates them, and turn it over to the authorities. Barring this, I sure hope come the day they're meeting out charges that there's a bucketful of Obstruction of Justice 'John Doe' warrants to go around from the grand jury.

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

Blah Blah Blah.

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

The Bitch,

If this was a kid who recorded it, and from what's been said, it was, then you know the answer as to why they didn't come forward earlier. They were raised in the co$ and probably had experience with the "rewards" of whistle blowing. All it got you was a trip to ethics and probably a lot more trouble from all the other scilons. The co$ sweeps this crap under the rug as you know.

Believe it or not there are still a lot of exes out there who know nothing about Anonymous or what really went on in the co$. The word is getting out but some don't internet. You may see more of this stuff coming out as time goes by.

I understand your frustration. Marty Rathbun & Co. have a lot to answer for. I think most exes posting on here and other boards have racked their brains trying to come up with something to hang co$ with. The fact of the matter is that the exes who know most of the dirt were in it up to their eyeballs and aren't ever going to talk.

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

Dunno if you've ever been subjected to abuse, but it's not so cut-and-dried. Depending on your surroundings, it can take a long, long time to even realize you're being abused. Sometimes it's years after the fact. Then you've got a potentially long period where you have to personally come to terms with it. It can take years... hell, decades, to reach a point where you're strong enough to want to take on the person or organization that abused you (if ever).

Don't blame the victim. Encourage and reward the ones that have the strength and courage to come forward. If you punish those that take time to come to terms with what happened to them, you'll ensure they'll never want to talk about it.

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

lurk moar...

I was enturbulating "body routers", (sclilon for street recruiters) in 1975.

Disco lulz....

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

^^^^this...

People dont talk about their own hurts easily. It means they have to feel them again.

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

You lurk moar, alex. Do you really think The Bitch wasn't registered on enturb UNDER ANOTHER NAME from the beginning? You don't know half as much as you think you do.

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

We're not talking he waited until he turned 18 then ran for a DA or CPS. We're talking 20 years and a year of global protesting. I understand the contributing factors as well as anyone who hasn't been a member of their cult, probably better than most for other reasons that aren't relevant here, and my point remains... 20 years.

2 or 3, maybe 5, I could understand. TWENTY YEARS is too little, too late for anyone to do or achieve anything with such "revelations." If he / she wants me to say WTG or OMG, then I'm sorry. At a minimum they're 10 months later than already WAY past due for this to resonate with me as anything but somebody looking for a little slice of personal vengeance.

I acknowledge all the factors you're alluding to, but this goes beyond the pale.

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

Tell that to the the kids that were molested by catholic priests 25 years ago. Those molested came forward after all those many years. The molesters are now in prison. There is NO statue of limitations regarding molestation.

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

before me? No.

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

ORLY? Why don'tcha go tell that to the DA IN TEXAS who told me there was ZERO they could do criminally because the bell had tolled on filing charges. You really should do some fact checking. The civil limit was 3 years from the date you remember the abuse in order to file a civil suit, and I believe the limit was 7 years for criminal prosecution on charges of child molestation.

Maybe they have different laws for Catholics? Naw, that's just $cilontologists I thought!

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

So... let's say I was in a concentration camp, and saw my family get shuffled off to the ovens. By some miracle, I made it to the end of the war without being put in the oven myself.

Every time I think about this, I'm filled with guilt. I want to kill myself. How did I survive when my family didn't? The depression over it wrecks me any time I have to face it.

The Nuremberg trials come up after the war. I still can't face the horror of the experience. I'm too wrecked to contribute.

15 years laters, Nazi war criminals are being rounded-up in Argentina. I finally have come to terms with the horrors I've experienced, and decide I'm going to stand up and point out the fuckers that were running the ovens. I'm not afraid any longer. It doesn't depress me so badly I want to kill myself any longer.

Now you're going to berate me for being so selfish for waiting this long... and waiting until there was some current operation to contribute to?

Yeah... I'm using hyperbole to make my point here... we're talking about a spanking and allegations of sexual abuse, not wholesale extermination... but the psychological impact to a victim can be just as deep.

I think critiquing victims for being unable to come forward, whatever the level of abuse, doesn't serve any purpose.

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

What screenshot? I was posing questions about the clip, not trying to insinuate anything.
lern2read

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

Inb4Godwin's.

Thus far I've zero factual basis on which to believe that $cilontology is the functional equivalent to the Holocaust. I've got statements of abuse I choose to believe because there are a large number of them from various parts of the world, at least some of which seem to be independent and corroborating one another. Thus far I have no reports of anything but genocidal ambitions and dogma; no mass graves; no war crimes or genocides; nothing to indicate any validity between the comparison you tried to establish and demonstrated reality.

More accurately you might suggest the similarity between large families which maintain secrets about abuse within the family. In no way does the comparison to Nazi Germany hold up to scrutiny however, unless you're privy to a lot more information than I am.

Does it have marvelous potential for BECOMING a 4th Reich? Without a m/f'in doubt. Do people in $cientology experience the same treatment as those in Auschwitz, and does the broader world endure the cultural traumas which act in such conditions? I dunno... my gut says no but my mind's open to being proven wrong. Got evidence?

I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest here. I'm saying that I don't like being pwnd by an "ex" behind a mask, flipping a bird at the 'church' nao that after 20 years they got up the balls to go try to get a slice of revenge. I'm not here for anyone's vengeance, I'm here to kill a cult. I'm sorry, but I can't respect people who participated in it then kept silence.

This isn't Nuremberg, no matter how much "ex's" would like us to believe that without serious substantive evidence at all. If it is, then show us and it WILL end, of that there is zero doubt. If evidence exists of all that is alleged, then there shouldn't be any problem at all putting this dinosaur out of our collective misery.

This shows it IS in fact out there. Sadly, it also shows that people aren't willing take a risk on personal sacrifice to save others when their personal, potentially criminally culpable, asses are on the line but that they ARE willing to rah rah from the sidelines about the "evil cult" for 20 years.

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

If this is the kid that posted the video he's had a pretty hard life. I'd say it's lucky he even remembered he had that tape.

Imo it doesn't matter if Hanks can be prosecuted for this one or not at this point. It still shows what goes on in co$ and they won't be happy about it.

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

-1 for incorrect use of internet meme

lern2meme

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

learn to emoticon...

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

I agree, they won't be happy about it and that makes me happy. What makes me sad is that it didn't happen 20 years ago, or 15, or 10... or....? How many more children does that add up to do you think?

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

Is it known for sure this is the person who leaked this clip?

Huh?

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

Nobody is saying this is the equivalent of Nuremberg or the Holocaust. Did you notice the part where I said I was using hyperbole? It's useful to extend an argument to the extremes to validate the logic behind it. You seem to think it's suspicious and wrong for someone to step up, 20 years later, to give out info about what they experienced. More than that, you seem to want to slam them for doing it so late in the game.

What useful purpose does that serve? Are we supposed to jump all over Lawrence Woodcraft for taking until 2001 to come out with his many years old info about asbestos on the Freewinds? He was deep into the cult, and it took a long time for him to get out, sort out his feelings, and spill the beans.

Slamming people for needing time to comes to term with what's happened to them only discourages people from telling their story. Frankly, I don't care if it takes 50 years... if that's what it takes for someone to talk about what happened.

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

Yes.
Ex Scientology Kids :: View topic - Audio recording of Wally Hanks church approved child abuse

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

"Sort out his feelings," about institutionally sponsored child abuse? What in the FUCK is there to "sort out" about that? Precisely what thought process has to occur for an adult to click into the fact that he / she ought to protect children from abuse? Just how much credit for fucked up life are you willing to give people and if they're too numb to protect kids from abuse should they be walking around without supervision?

I'm sorry the guy got hurt. I'm sorry he was a "victim," and on and on... all the rest. But FFS when does the "aww poor them," turn into disgust? Never? After 100 kids have been beaten? 1000? Where's the line drawn when holding people to at least some standard of common humanity and social responsibility lie?

For me it's here. Maybe not you, and that's ok with me. I'm not willing to only look at what this means on the surface this time. I've done that a long time in regard to this issue, and this just sort of crosses a line in the sand with me.

And yes, I saw the part where you said "I'm using hyperbole." I simply took the time to point it out further, rather than to let you get off saying the functional equivalent of, "I know it's an inaccurate comparison but I'm going to use it anyway in order to convince people by playing hide the hamster."

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

"church approved" is a bit dubious...

This was a private school run by scientologists, but certainly not owned by the church, nor is there any evidence the church condoned corporal punishment there.

Not saying wally was the guy to be watching kids....

But consider that the ranch/school has been long closed and that it was not a church facility.

It certainly is an example of the church failing to produce in wally the traits we would like to see in all the people around us, but wally is the one who is responsible not some amorphous "church".

But by all means be the private army of the guy who got spanked 7 times 20 years ago for sneaking out of school to smoke pot and drink beer in Los Angeles, 60 miles away from where he knew he was supposed to be...

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

If I were in the care of a guy that were whupping my ass while praising LRH tech - even if he's making up shit out of nowhere - I'd want to be 60 miles away, too.

I think it's fairly obvious that the recorded beating is not a legitimate part of LRH tech, but what should be even more obvious is that he's using the tech as an excuse, and his up stats are why he gets away with it. Gabriel Williams was claiming that LRH condoned his actions when he raped Jennifer Stewart a hundred times. He used Scientology techniques to force her to believe that "Everything is okay, everything is fine, I love him and I like being with him."

Whether you're in the shoes of Marco, Lisa McPherson and Jennifer Stewart, or Wally Hanks, Gabriel Williams and Tommy Davis, there are only two options. You're either a victim or a psychotic. I can only see one valid reason why this video should be spread like the plague, and it's this. This is what happens to you if you join Scientology.

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

QFMFT!

In BOTH respect for the person who was there and a "victim," and for those who came after who might have been saved. EITHER way, the statement is absolutely correct. If you get involved in $cientology, this could very well happen to you or your children.

People "in" become paradox... both the abuser and the abused. The message is clear, "Join $cientology and this too could be YOU!"

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

This^^^

And alex,
That last statement you made says it all. It was the victims fault... That's why you will ALWAYS be a scilon. Quit pretending you may leave one day. Scilons all have the same attitude and that's why Hanks got away with his shit for so long.
Marco pulled it in, right?

I just wonder how you would feel it it had been one of your kids? Would you still be so quick to blame the victim?

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

FIX'D

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

church approved and alex approved.

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

Okie dokie. Heated argument about victims and their responsibilities with regard to preventing further abuse.

Off topic. I'll agree to disagree. Let's start another thread if we want to go back-and-forth.

Let's go back to this recording, proving its validity, and asking what good can be done with it.

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

Is it possible someone can contact the person who leaked the clip and find out? Somone at Ex Scientology Kids or someone from the old guard maybe?
I'd ask over at ocmb but I don't have an account there. (they won't approve it, dunno why)

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

First off if my kids snuck off to smoke pot and drink, they would get much more gruesome discipline than 7 swats.

But It wouldnt be corporal. They would lose a lot of privledges, and have to re earn my trust. They would probably lose internet priledges for a long time and not be allowed out for social activities....school only for several months..

Sure its the kids fault, he had to know that he would get in trouble if he was caught. I have a hard time thinking of a 15 year old being some kind of victim, when he was spanked and yelled at...

Shit I would have laughed if I got caught for the same thing and got SPANKED! (and I did that kind of stuff when I was 15)

But my kids live at home or their universities and have been relatively "good".

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

I remember him saying that he refused to talk about the identity of the victim unless it was with law enforcement personnel.

HOOK 'EM UP.

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

Works for me. Think we worked it out to the paradox it / all the shite that is $cilontology and found the nugget of truth. If you've not listened to the New Zealand Radio interview with the ANZ head of OSA, it's a good lesson in parsing what's said and finding the core of the truth on which everybody can agree.

She catches the gai admitting that the 'church' monitors the online activities of "ex's" they consider at risk of fucking with them, during a denial of doing bad stuff. Sort of like asking, "Do you still beat your wife?" - real hoot - if I find the ling I'll post it.

Could somebody please recap on what is known vs. what is suspected or ling back to it in the thread pl0x? We need provenance to do anything legitimate at all with what's been shown by this.

The "angle" is clear; "This could be you in $cilontology."

Nothing moar need be said as to the rest in regard to what do we do with it nao that we have it.

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

PROTIP: I'm a guy.

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

This^^^

this would seem the route to go... its not up to us to know (or need to know) the identity of the victim, only that the victim talks to someone about it that can do something about it and if there is more evidence of abuse that it finds its way to the appropriate authorities. imho our job should just be pointing to this as what (among other things) Scientology really is about.

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

I don't think that's a picture of her, but she did visit the Mace Kingsley Ranch. Here's an interview with her talking about the physical and sexual abuse of minors that went on there and the CoS involvement in covering it up due to it being considered bad PR as Hanks was OT7:

*edit: you have to click the ling as the video doesn't embed.
[ame=http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5956100899451704740&hl=en]Scientology: Astra Woodcraft Interview - 5/6[/ame]

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

THIS^^^^^^^^^


http://www.youtube.com/someguynameddavid

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

Thanks for proving my point. And I didn't ask you what YOU would do to your kid, I asked what you would do if Hanks beat your kid with a paddle. And you know exactly what I asked you. And thanks for telling us how good your kids are...glad you were smart enough not to raise them in the Sea Org. Maybe Marco wouldn't have been such an unruly kid if his parents hadn't of spent all their time over at the org instead of actually raising him.

Re: Disturbing Audio Recording of Scientologists Beating 15 year old

Frankly, around age 15 was the point I quit putting up with being beaten. If someone had said, "bend over and take your licks" then... there's a really good chance they'd need corrective dentistry.

What I find really disturbing is that some kid was intimidated enough to bend-over and take it while looking at an LRH portrait. Seven licks in a row.

LOOK AT THE PICTURE OF THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER WHILE WE BEAT YOUR ASS.

Yeah. That's the way to discipline a kid. Nothing horrifically wrong here. At least when I got beat it wasn't while being forced to look at some group's Messiah.