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Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

Discussion in 'GoldBase' started by Anonymous, Mar 3, 2009.

  1. Anonymous Member

    Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    How much does what happens at Gold affect the rest of the world? If Gold for whatever reason ceased to exist, what would the knock on effect be for orgs in Europe?
  2. themadhair Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    It would end them
  3. FUCK Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    Death to Gold=no more tech=no more Co$.
  4. Silent Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    Not so sure there.

    Like I've said before: Scientology = Copyrights and trademarks.

    Those are owned/held by the RTC/CST.

    As far as I know gold =! RTC/CST.
  5. Scatman Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    CST, Church of Spiritual Technology (a "church" without clergy or members) owns the copyrights. This "church" does business as the L. Ron Hubbard Library.
    CST owns the trademarks, but exclusively licenses them to the RTC, the Racketeering Technology Center.
  6. Zak McKracken Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    There are many sock puppets. At least on paper, the CoS enterprise is
    dozens of completely unrelated organizations. But unless I'm grossly mistaken, it seems to me that all the socks are still ultimately run by the Dwarf and his minions.

    if Gold/Int went down- somehow without touching PAC, Flag, Saint Hill - would it be possible for the Mega-orgs to survive independently, or to recreate the structure of management?

    I think they'd tear eachother to pieces.
  7. RovingAxe Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    Well... not to be too sarcastic or use a bad play on words... but:

    I think there would be quite a bit of DisORGanization throughout the world wide enterprise. I believe that a lot of effort would be spent in rebuilding something as similar to Gold as soon as possible, while in the meantime an attempt would be made to shift activities elsewhere. This kind of activity would put other locations throughout the world a bit on the back burner and on their own for a while.

    So, it really depends on just how independent those Orgs are. They may be able to sustain themselves with little or no interruption whatsoever. I am not sure that anyone really knows whether these orgs are directly tied to each other, or whether, like so many other things....they are separated in some way legally and financially.
  8. A.Non Hubbard Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    The CST is a lifeboat for the (predicted) situation of the RTC imploding.
  9. Hombre Moderator Skandinaviska

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    DM would have to move to Shire
  10. pooks Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    It'd be like taking out the Mothership
  11. Anonymous Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    No, RTC/CST are based :) at Gold Base.
  12. anonhuff Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    hahahahaha
  13. Silent Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    They can just move, CST/RTC will have do die as a legal entity for this to truly be over. It's geographical location is not important.
  14. blah Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    gold is one of there big three facilities, the other two being clear water and LA. if Gold were to be shut down it would probably be the most effective globaly in the long run, because Gold is their propaganda base, it is where all of there media is made. the fake bomb threat that was put up on youtube was most likely produced at gold.
  15. Silent Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    THE EU (and I think Asia too) stuff is being made in Copenhagen, Denmark, so EU/Asia would be able to continue without Gold, and still have materials made.
  16. webkilla Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    really?

    cool - i'm protesting at a that big headquarters? sweet
  17. Scatman Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    By judicial order, all copyrights and "religious trademarks" should be put into the public domain. That way, there is no longer any financial incentive to create a totalitarian, monopolistic cult to push scientology.
    The root of the cancer is the Church of Spiritual Technology, a California church without members or clergy.
  18. Herro Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    You are at the very heart of the beast. Keep up the good work. :)
  19. yknot Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    Organizationally, it would be a blow but they could possibly restructure. The more interesting question, IMO, is what it would do to the culties worldwide when they find out. Strengthen the resolve of the hardcore believers or give them that bit of cognitive dissonance that makes them wake up? I don't think DM would be able to spin this one, not anymore.
  20. Sam Urai Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    Gold is to Scientology what Mount Doom is to the reign of Sauron.
  21. LarryBren Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    Oh shi- another giant wall of text follows!

    Whatever, here goes:

    IMHO what happens at the “Gold Base” will have a huge impact on the rest of organized scientology throughout the world.

    I do not however think that the reasons will have all that much to do with their corporate structures.

    As far as I know the Gold Base is home to David Miscavige. Thus I have referred to it as the “lair of the dwarf” in another posting. DM controls organized scientology with an iron fist and he controls it completely. Part of it is through the creative manipulation of the corporate structure but FAR more than that the reason for his control is that he has gotten staff and public scientologists to enable him and his actions by agreeing that he is in control and somehow that was Hubbard’s wish.

    I have posted on such things at length before and will not try to repeat it all here. One link touching on these controls was from a posting I did in 2006 on XSO and then publically on ars in January 2007: The Real Power in Scientology - DM's Lies - alt.religion.scientology | Google Groups

    I do not believe that DM has any really significant corporate authority outside of RTC. If you were part of the organized scientology corporate hierarchy it would not be all that difficult to take DM down legally, such as having him removed from corporate authority in RTC. But that might require others who have voting power within RTC, for example, to actually have the insight and courage to move against him and vote him out of authority. As part of that they would have to ensure that they use the organized scientology attorneys knowledgeable about the corporate structure to keep DM out of it.

    The problem is DM, using physical and mental brutality and using his flunkies in OSA/RTC, the attorneys, etc. keeps others from taking any action.

    When Hubbard was alive in the years following his official “resignation” as “executive director” he fully controlled everything of substance simply because others supported Hubbard over corporate structure and would follow Hubbard’s orders despite the corporate structure.

    As per the above noted post DM seized power over organized scientology in 1981 and 1982 by setting himself up as the connection between the rest of scientology and Hubbard. He got some of the biggest powers within organized scientology to stand down and accept DM’s control as he made them think this was Hubbard’s wish. This included the Guardian’s Office and the top of the Commodore’s Messenger Organization International (CMO Int).

    To this very day DM has seized and solidified his control over what “evolved” from the GO and the then CMO which is CMO as currently structured, the Watchdog Committee, RTC, OSA and the various finance offices.

    Unless things have greatly changed in the last year or two, the very top of organized scientology remains at that base although most of them have lost all or much of their power to DM. This includes much of what I mentioned above such as the Watchdog Committee, CMO Int, RTC and what was the Office of the ED Int.

    Take out those at Gold Base and there is ZERO real leadership in organized scientology. The key is taking out the dwarf which puts an end to many of the abuses carried out by him or under his orders.

    As the current labor cases and some other brewing (which will IMHO be announced soon enough) start to expose abuses within the Gold Base itself things are going to get really out of hand. I believe that DM is going to be called to testify and when he can no longer avoid it his nature is going to lead him to commit great perjuries like ones he thinks he has escaped responsibility for from the 1990s. See these links for a very small sampling of the kinds of perjuries he has committed in the past:

    A series of postings called “The Miscavige Legal Statements – a study in Perjury, Lies and Misdirection”:
    Posting #1 - October 7, 2008: Operation Clambake Message Board :: View topic - “The Miscavige Legal Statements – a study in Perjury, Lies
    Posting #2 - October 7, 2008: Operation Clambake Message Board :: View topic - “The Miscavige Legal Statements – a study in Perjury, Lies
    Posting #3 - October 7, 2008: Operation Clambake Message Board :: View topic - “The Miscavige Legal Statements – a study in Perjury, Lies
    Posting #4 - October 10, 2008: Operation Clambake Message Board :: View topic - The Miscavige Legal Statements – a study in Perjury, Lies Posting #5 - October 11, 2008 Operation Clambake Message Board :: View topic - The Miscavige Legal Statements – a study in Perjury, Lies
    Posting #6 - October 13, 2008 Operation Clambake Message Board :: View topic - The Miscavige Legal Statements – a study in Perjury, Lies
    Posting #7 - October 18, 2008 Operation Clambake Message Board :: View topic - The Miscavige Legal Statements – a study in Perjury, Lies
    Posting #8 - October 24,2008 Operation Clambake Message Board :: View topic - The Miscavige Legal Statements – a study in Perjury, Lies
    Posting #9 - October 30, 2008 Operation Clambake Message Board :: View topic - The Miscavige Legal Statements – a study in Perjury, Lies
    Posting #10 - November 11, 2008: Operation Clambake Message Board :: View topic - The Miscavige Legal Statements – a study in Perjury, Lies
    Posting #11 - November 18, 2008: Operation Clambake Message Board :: View topic - The Miscavige Legal Statements – a study in Perjury, Lies
    Posting #12 - November 26, 2008: Operation Clambake Message Board :: View topic - The Miscavige Legal Statements – a study in Perjury, Lies

    But this time when he perjures himself I am betting that many of us will be going on the stand to prove he has lied.

    The commotion we are seeing surrounding the Gold Base raids and the stupid Riverside ordinances is only because we are getting close to the dwarf and I believe that he can see the above coming his way.

    Couple this with all the raids around the world, the negative press/books, the very serious legal actions being taken against them in France, Belgium and IMHO soon to be all over the place and we see an explosive situation even beyond the FBI raids in the 70s and the criminal convictions that followed.

    After the raids of the late 70s organized scientology and Hubbard came out with all kinds of stuff to “change the subject”, attack the “attackers” or otherwise avoid attention. This included the following:

    - an even heavier push on gaining religious cloaking to divert some of the attacks and attackers;
    - the first “What Is Scientology” book in 1978 of which I was one of the authors;
    - other books also put out by the GO such as background and ceremonies book and ones attacking the FBI;
    - “Hubbard” later introduces the “Way To Happiness”;
    - serious corporate evolutions went into planning and initial implementation stages to hide the controls and the funds including actions for SMI and WISE (see the Hubbard 1979 order re SMI from section 16 my affidavit for one good example of this): http://evil.scientology.googlepages.com/crs.pdf
    - etc. etc.

    Doing the above diverts attention off of them and their abuses while building them a “religious cloaking” and “corporate veil” defense to hide behind. Look for more of this kind of stuff from them now such as really pushing the Way to Happiness stuff, CCHR, Volunteer Ministers, new releases, anti Anonymous actions, etc.

    You are stirring up a hornets nest at Gold Base and the above is why.

    The corporate matters are really secondary. This includes all that stuff about CST controlling the copyrights and trademarks and licensing RTC. (BTW in one of the agreements between CST and RTC, CST can for $100 pull RTC’s rights to the trademarks if they think RTC is jeopardizing them).

    Those things are important for the final dissolution of organized scientology so as to end all abuses out there. But organized scientology set up those structures to actually withstand legal attacks on them and IMHO it will take years and years and many, many millions of dollars to work your way through RTC to CST legally and gain control of the intellectual property rights or send them fully into the public domain.

    Additionally, I believe that the repeated world wide and mini Anonymous raids are doing more to take down organized scientology through public education and otherwise than any legal action on CST will do for years to come

    IMHO it will be comparatively much easier to take out the heads of the hydra at Gold Base as above and let organized scientology die the death of cash starvation as one org after the other must close down due to no longer being so able to scam money out of the public at large.

    In any event taking out the intellectual property rights or even CST and RTC as legal bodies will not stop those currently controlling organized scientology. For example people who want to are much more able now to “practice scientology” much more cheaply in the freezone or elsewhere. But does that stop scientologists from paying fortunes to organized scientology now? No it doesn’t. I submit that if RTC and CST lost the copyrights and trademarks they STILL would be able to get money out of scientology publics as long as that public thought that DM and the “tech” he pushes is Hubbard’s.

    But if DM is taken out of there and exposed publically as the liar and abuser that he is, he will lose that grip he holds on the minds of others who are now still pumping money into organized scientology to support his programs.

    I am not suggesting that no one brings legal actions against CST, etc. with respect to the intellectual property rights and the like. By all means go for it if that is what you are doing.

    I just wanted to give my own opinion of how you don’t have to take down the top of the legal structure to destroy organized scientology and the abuses it commits.

    Anonymous, Exes, OG and others concerned ARE taking it down now and I would not wish to underestimate the vital importance of what is happening at the Gold Base now as well what legal actions will IMHO follow all this.

    Personally I think exposing what happens at “Gold Base” is of vital importance to end game.

    Imagine the terror in DM right now as he considers what will happen if other top staff and ex staff mentally imprisoned at GOLD suddenly blow and start talking like others are talking now.

    Imagine the horror in DM’s world right now as he thinks of what they can testify about in the labor cases, to prove he controlled it all, beatings and other abuses by him, etc.

    OMG it must suck to be DM right now!

    If Gold Base and the staff in it are not THE key for taking down organized scientology now, it is certainly one of the “keys”.

    IMHO

    Larry Brennan
  22. Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    ^^^^this, read it!
  23. Anonymous Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    "The commotion we are seeing surrounding the Gold Base raids and the stupid Riverside ordinances is only because we are getting close to the dwarf and I believe that he can see the above coming his way." Larry Brennan
  24. NotMike Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    Since gold has to keep all of their slaves locked up during a protest, I wonder what it would be like if there was a 24 hour protest at gold.

    Shuffle people in staggered shifts out front. Heck. A whole weekend could be a blast.
  25. Anonymous Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    Yep, $ci€nto£olog¥ is a dictatorship. Two ways to help it falling:
    One: you have the big boss sent to jail using various legalities (remember Al Capone...)

    Two: you foster internal competition. Remember the old Mission:Impossible? serial with the team infiltrating a "bad" country and helping internal revolution by supporting/tricking the dictator's closest 'friend'...?
  26. subgenius Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    Why does anyone think Gold base is in any danger of ceasing to exist, without the collapse of Co$ as a whole?
  27. Silent Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    Quoted for truth.

    Also, what I stated earlier, about Scientology not dying until CST/RTC does, was regarding the legal aspects of Scientology, not the organisational state of things. If the dwarf is removed, money dried out etc, it will be a de facto victory, since all that will remain are some trademarks and copyrights.
    Further questions:

    -Is the management in CST/RTC the same individuals? (who are they? Are they even at Gold?)

    -Why is the management in these 2 organizations not personally targeted in every (legal) way shape or form possible? (without their work = no scientology)

    -Is the CST even legally allowed to dissolve itself?

    Also, I'm not sure if the copyrights and trademarks would still live on in other countries, "public domain" is not a legal therm that even exists all over the world, and the local/regional orgs can have gotten individual copyright/trademark protections as they release their RTC-licenced stuff in their own countries, thus creating new rights that the CST cannot even recall/put into public domain. If this is really true, and that the non-US regional orgs can continue operation even de-linked from CST/RTC, then the only a global cash-starvation and or criminal prosecution will be sufficient to make sure that Scientology dies and stays dead.
  28. Anonymous Member

  29. subgenius Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    In what scenario does Gold Base cease to exist without the collapse of Co$ generally?
    I think its more likely that it will be a last stand when everything else caves in.
  30. Relyt Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    I think part of the reason why they're building all those underground vaults is part of the plan in case INT is ever to fall.
  31. Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    The power of Gold is largely symbolic. Its where many of the worst abuses take place, and its the midgets lair. These protests are making him angry... real angry!
  32. Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    Snipping a couple of paragraphs out and not disagreeing with any of the rest...

    It could be argued that the regular Orgs would be better off in the short term without the top layer of management. The cash would stop flowing uplines! Legally IIRC they are already independent, to avoid legal claims against CoS branches affecting central funds.

    Why don't more people leave but remain scientologists? All kinds of reasons I'd suppose, but together they amount to a belief that the CoS is more likely than not to survive its present troubles. Only when that changes will public loyalists withdraw their support.

    Gold Base is just real estate. DM can always move to South Africa, Bulgravia or some other location that won't ask questions. As I think Larry is pointing out, the cult will most likely die from a thousand cuts not a frontal assault. The latter was the fundamental mistake Bob Minton (in hindsight) made, in thinking that driving the cult out of Clearwater would destroy it. In 'going for Gold' it would be as well to remember that this is an Operation to destabilise the cult at the top, not to shut down a location.
  33. eddieVroom Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    IIRC, Gold Base is also the hub of INCOMM, their communications system for the relaying of "official" orders. Taking THAT out would be bad for them.
  34. Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    Correction: DM does not live at Gold Base anymore. He has an apartment in Los Angeles.

    I have never thought it was a good idea to protest out in Hemet, and still don't. You are seen by few public, and maybe 2 staff at most. The rest of the people inside don't even know you're there.

    Furthermore, the prediction I made back when AnonOrange was struck a few months ago has come true (chew on that all you assholes who said I was just being negative). CoS has used this incident and others to get a law passed that limits protesting in the area. I honestly can't see what protesting outside of GB accomplishes -- except causing more trouble for us, and giving Co$ more leverage to limit what we can do.
  35. LarryBren Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    Hey Hartley.

    It's nice to see comments from a fellow ARSCC "officer".

    You definitely got it right when you said what I meant was organized scientology dying from a thousand cuts rather than a frontal assault and that in going for Gold to remember that it is an operation to destabilize the cult from the top, not to shut down a location.

    My interest in "gold" is because of who is there, not where it is.

    I agree with the thousand cuts point but I also think that a few will be deep ones (or potential "knockout blows" to use that term). The new labor cases have the potential to be a knockout blow in many ways especially considering how I feel that DM will be drawn into them. I say have many such potential "knock out blows" but don't depend on any of them. The cumulative effect of exposing them and getting out the truth is what will get to them much like as is covered in the below link:



    As for the orgs surviving better with or without top management you might be right. I don't know but I suspect they will fall apart faster without all the enforcement/ethics/etc. missions from RTC and CSI forcing them into action. I also believe that many scientologists sadly need someone to look up to for guidance as they do not think well for themselves. Even in my darkest days of being a scientologist I always hated it when friends would have to look into a green volume or a red volume to "find out" what to think.

    Anyway, I suspect we will find out:)

    Larry
    Executive Vice President
    ARSCC wdne (we do not exist)
  36. Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    Thx Larry for posting this video outlining the best strategies for dealing with this unconscionable cult that has seriously harmed so many and continues to do so. I'm glad it's not an irritating computer voice. Every post, protest, etc. by anonymous takes it's toll on this cult. It's amazing how much has been done to expose this lying criminal corpration and their fraud,extortion, child abuse, labor abuses, coerced abortions, tax evasion, harassment, etc., on and on........Death by a thousand cuts and more, i'm happy to do my part....... TY all in anonymous.
  37. Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    HELLO, hello, anybody there?

    DM DOES NOT LIVE AT GOLD AND HAS NOT FOR SOME TIME NOW. HE HAS AN APARTMENT IN LA, CLOSE TO AUTHOR SERVICES.

    Geesh.
  38. Anonymous Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    dox
  39. Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    Dox otherwise. Mark H. and others who used to work at Gold have all said the same thing. Lurk moar.
  40. LarryBren Member

    Re: Effect on Gold over CoS globally?

    LOL, hey Dilbert

    As far back as 1981 through 1983 when I worked with DM extensively he both lived in the LA area at times (when he was in Author Services legally) and AS WELL maintained an "apartment" at Gold. I know as I was in his "apartment" at Gold more than once seeing the hugely expensive stereo equipment, gun collection, etc. I also worked with him both at ASI offices in Hollywood and at Gold.

    He never, as long as I have known him dating back to late 1981, exclusively lived at Gold.

    I believe that is still the case although I have no idea how much time he spends at Int presently.

    I also know from other sources of people who worked there until very recent times of DM maintaining his presence there and carrying out most of his abuses there. I also know from XSO sources who don't presently want to be known but I believe you will see some testifying some day.

    I also personally know many people from as far back as 1982/83 who were former top execs who were based there and still are in the SP hall there now.

    Getting so much as one of these people to blow and then speak out could make a huge difference to getting the abuses stopped in a shorter period.

    Plus you can learn from other posters such as Jeff Hawkins and Marc Headly of just to what degree DM has been based there as recently as just a couple of years ago.

    Whether or not he spends much time there at the moment it IS his little fortress.

    Additionally their actions of going nuts over the protests there, including the ordinance matters, far exceed how they react to such protests elsewhere. I've seen that craziness before when Hubbard was in hiding and I've seen how DM reacted to it then. I see it again now each time something goes on to expose abuses at Gold.

    In any event, you may be right that he spends most of his time elsewhere right now but IMHO that does not take away from the effectiveness or importance of what is happening with respect to Gold which BTW also includes the Marc Headly labor suit re abuses within CSI at Gold and the Clair Headly suit re abuses with RTC in Gold.

    We may continue to disagree on this which is our right but it is nonetheless my opinion.

    Peace:)

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