epic raid poll

Discussion in 'Think Tank' started by Alive, Apr 23, 2008.


Where should we gather.

Washington, DC 64 vote(s) 59.8%
Clearwater, FL 43 vote(s) 40.2%
  1. Alive Member

    epic raid poll

    NOTE: I would encourage everyone to read the various arguments put forth for each side before voting.

    Recently there have been two major ideas proposed for a national/international IRL raid. Thus far there have been too main ideas proposed. A march on DC, or a massive weekend celebration in Clearwater, FL. I thought making a poll would be a good start.

    Massive March on the Capital
    Clearwater Mecca Road Trip

    Clearwater Upstat:Near a beach, lots of nice hotels and fun things to do. It's right next to a large number of major CoS buildings and would no doubt cause DM's head to 'splode with headaches (lulz). If big enough we could still possibly get national attention even if it involved.

    Washington Upstat: Right next to the most densely populated states, this would make it easier for a large number of people to show up. This probably has a better chance of making national media coverage. It will also give the history books a nice picture of all of us to put in their "HOW T3H INTRANETS DESTROYED SCIENTOLOGY" chapter.

    I'll be voting for Washington primarily because I think it is a much stronger move politically, and we do need to get some of that backing. If we can make Scientology an issue in Congress, in the Senate, etc. Then we will be that much closer to our precious lulz.
  2. Danilov Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    I support the 3 City Compromise (DC, LA, and Chi-town) for the US 'Regionals'... I think London would work best for the UK, and I think AUS might be too spread out to organize one (I could be wrong).

    I know Clearwater wants their moment... but, quite simply: There is no way you're going to get the kind of epic turnout in Clearwater that you would get in DC, LA, and Chi. Florida is simply too far out of the way for anyone out of state to be able to afford the trip.

    Now, that being said. There's clearly no reason Clearwater can't do their own thing and get Anons from Orlando and Miami to join in... so long as they're not trying to draw from the major rallies in those 3 regional cities.
  3. nimonian Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    Agreed with Danilov. The midwest is already planning/booking for their regional.
  4. Re: epic raid poll

    I vote that we save Clearwater for our victory party. DC is capable of drawing higher numbers.

    Although at this point I think Florida anons are feeling too butthurt to send anyone to DC now. :(
  5. anonangl Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    I like the DC idea, I've never been there and have always wanted to, but for financial and family reasons I choose Clearwater. There is no way I could afford to go to DC, with Clearwater I could stay with family and travel over to CW.
  6. xellas420 Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    Well hell, what is this Texasfag supposed to do then? I'm sorry, but there is no damn way in hell you are getting me to go up to the yankee-infested frozen north, and you don't have any regionals within a 2 state radius of my location!

    Like it has been said before, protests are a dime a dozen in DC, and unless we manage to hit at least 5,000, I doubt anyone will even take notice. Whereas even 500 people in Clearwater will likely drive the Scilons into a stress-induced footbullet spree that will draw attention like flies to a pile of crap. The point here is that adding 1 anon to Clearwater gets more effect than adding 10 to the DC raid.

    Honestly, if you can't afford to go to Clearwater, don't go. No shame in that, nobody in Anon is made of cash. But don't be going and insulting all of us who are willing to scrimp and save to haul our thetan-ridden asses out there and enturbulate the $ciborgs in their home turf. I mean, they invaded OUR home turf (the Net), so we should be returning the favor. So this SP is heading to Clearwater, and I'll be sure to grab a grill and cook up some steaks for the fellow Anons there.
  7. AnonCynic Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    Clearwaterfag bring the steak, I'll bring the caek. :woot:

    Also, I have to agree with the "protests are a dime a dozen in DC" line of thought. It would be awesome to have enough Anons show up to garner some legit national attention, but I don't really see that happening unless something goes wrong (some rioting, fighting, etc. would certainly pique the MSM's interest; too bad that's not the kind of media attention/exposure we want or need).

    I think it'd be really easy to overrun downtown Clearwater with Anons, though. Just look at the success of the last protest - I think we maxed out around 300 people, or so...and our marching lines were stretching the length of an entire city block. Now spice in another couple hundred locals; add a pinch of Traveling Anons, perhaps another couple hundred; and voila! We're pushing a thousand folks, all circling the Ft. Harrison Hell-tel, the Sandcastle, and the rest of their evil downtown empire.

    The local media down here is willing to cover our stories (except for the pussies at BayNews9, but even they'd be hard-pressed to ignore 1K people like that). The St. Pete Times is one of the most widely-circulated, widely-respected newspapers in America...we really need to take full advantage of that. The Tampa Trib and local college papers (like USF's "Oracle") aren't too shabby, either, nor are the 3 or 4 television stations that would stop by.

    TL;DR - steak + caek = delicious; Clearwater > DC because of the numbers/attention game; SP Times articles are generally win.
  8. Anon? Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    I have serious issue with doing localization of the protests.

    First off: Increases the potential of Anon's getting identified due to increased travel.

    Second: The media is more likely to report this as being a local event, rather than part of a world-wide protest. This is doubly true in America, where the best we've gotten so far is "protests across the country". Not localizing allows us to have large presence in all cities.

    Third: Putting pressure on ALL Orgs keeps pressure on ALL of the CoS. Shutting down every org once a month is crippling their pyramid scheme and draining their wallet.

    I understand that some Anons would be cool with traveling the distance, but i think we're better off with regards to our impact and protest-organization if the majority hit up their local protests. I'm traveling an hour and a half both ways for mine. I think that's more than far enough.

  9. Danilov Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    First, let me point out that all the talk about regionals has had one very specific point that the many anons who support the idea agree upon: the regional event would be held in addition to the regular July protest. The idea at this point is that we'd have a regular global protest during the first or second week of July, than the regionals on the 26th. We're not going to stop the monthly protests... but like the random flash raids, adding in additional events each month (especially something like this) is basically stepping up the attack, and putting even more pressure on CoS.

    Second, no one is saying that Anons in Texas or Florida can't do something on the 26th... he'll anyone can do anything whenever they damn well please... but that being said, those three cities in the states have the potential to draw the biggest crowds:
    DC - In addition to the DC anons, most of the NYC, Boston, and Philly anons are already confirmed as planning on attending... that's 2500+ from those 4 cities alone... not including how many they'll draw from the dozens of other nearby cities (ie Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Richmond, etc)
    Chicago - The heart of the midwest, within travel distance of places of most major cities in IL, IA, MN, MI, and OH.
    LA - It's LA... SanFrAnons alone would probably boost them to 1000, that doesn't include anons coming from neighboring states.
  10. Re: epic raid poll

    I vote DC for all the reasons specified above.
  11. Danilov Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    But, again. Keep in mind it's not just DC... and I do give a (Colbert style) wag of the finger to some of the DC anons around and on the IRC who have been acting like DC is the only thing that matters.

    Yes we're holding maybe a half a dozen of these major rallies on the 26th... but never forget the no anon is more important or more significant than any other.
  12. Anon? Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    Ah. This is all I needed to hear! Then I'm totally cool with this, so long as everyone is extra careful.
  13. Veszerin Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    look dooder, stop being an epic moron. This not your personal army, stop trying to tell other cities what to do.

    what is this bullshit about july 26th? I was there in the #dcmarch chat room when you guys started this bullshit about 'oh waht day shall it be on'

    The fact of the matter, is that the DC March, which I repeat, THOUGH IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS Regionals Bullshit, is dependent on what day we can actually get a permit for the mall.

    DC MARCH IS NOT A REGIONAL. It will be an epic party, and the entire world is invited. I don't give a shit if you're from LA, Clearwater, or even fucking okinawa. You are invited to our party. It will be epic. I can tell you right now, that there are plenty of awesome ideas in planning, and further along in the stages to being set up.

    Also, No one cares if you're too butthurt to show up. Don't want to show up? fine. WE are not going to be bawwing about it, so stop being so fucking selfish.
    If you don't want to come, thats your fucking shit.
    Like it or not, no ones going to really miss you.
    We'd like as many to come as possible, but at the same time, we'll be perfectly fine if you don't.

    so danilov, stop being a moron.
  14. Veszerin Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    Maybe you just have an inferiority complex, is that it? you know, i herd theres a cult that can help with mental problems.
  15. Danilov Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    That's actually what I was referring to. The 'you're invited, if you'd rather do something else fine go fuck yourself' attitude
  16. BuckeyeAnnon Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    We should do a "Million Anon March" on Washington!! "Mr. President, the Internet is here!"
  17. Danilov Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    One day perhaps... I think that would be great.
  18. Veszerin Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    so you think anyone should care that someone wants to pout like a 16 yr old girl and not come?
  19. Danilov Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    *yawn* Spend all day on that one?

    Look... whether you want to admit it or not, DC (while important) is not neither the center of the world nor the center of anon, your Party is not the only one that will be held, nor the only one that matters.

    PS. Chi-town and LA will be epic.
  20. Veszerin Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    since when did i say it would be? since when did i start this regional bullshit and tell people that they can go to one thing but not another.

    I don't care what chi-town and LA do, they can do what they want. Unlike you, i'm not telling anyone what to do.
  21. Danilov Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    Whatever Ves. You're the only person arguing here. Everyone's aware of the DC rally, it should just be noted that you aren't the only ones doing something that big. No one's telling anyone they have to do anything, accept this.

    Epic DC Raid will be Epic.
    Epic Chi Raid will be Epic.
    Epic LA Raid will be Epic.
    I hereby declare this internet argument over.

    Now, as far as actual news, I would like to know if there's been any word on getting the permit for DC? :)
  22. nimonian Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    You guys are such cocks to Danilov. Lets not forget that this is a person who has been extremely good at planning that you're telling to STFU.

    His point is legitimate, and asking him to stop talking is not going to solve the problem. He's come up with a series of potential solutions that you've rejected outright, and you've come up with nothing to quell what is a genuine concern of many.

    The concern, to put it in simple terms for you, is that regional protest planning will be affected by your "anyone can come" (read: national) planning. Saying, "do what you want, we're not forcing anyone into anything" is disingenous, because while you're not directly forcing anyone into anything, you're passively fucking with everyone else's plans. By doing that, you set us all up for failure. A failed national protest, and failed regional protests.

    Think of the Missouri Anon that gets excited for a DC protest but can't make it. Chicago would be the natural choice then, but "regional" isn't quite as cool as "national", and maybe that guy won't think it's worth the trip. I know we're deep into hypotheticals now, but I can easily see such a thing happening. On the other hand, if all are regional, there's no hierarchical structure created. The "Missouri anon" would be excited about Chicago, not DC, and make the trip.[/hypothetical]

    So, the concern is legitimate. Now tell me something other than "we're not telling anyone what to do, all are welcome," because it's a profoundly stupid response.
  23. Danilov Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    I appreciate the support Nim, but as I said:


    DC will do their thing, LA and Chitown will do theirs... and I'm sure the britfags will pull off something epic too.
  24. Alive Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    Let me reword the purpose of this thread:

    many people do not have the money nor time available to make multiple "national" style events.

    The point of this thread was to communicate with one another and decide "For those of us that can only do one national event, which one should we have them focus on. Which one do we think will garner the most attention?"

    This is NOT a which place is more important.
    This is NOT discussing where the ONE and ONLY national protest should be.

    It's just discussing that given the opportunity to do only one, which one should we do the most to make mega-epic huge.
  25. Veszerin Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    what you're not fucking getting, is Personal Army. WE ARE NOT IT.

    You have no right to tell anyone which is more important. Get it through your fucking head, LeaDARR
  26. Re: epic raid poll

    Wow, I really can't pick one.
    Clearwater would be Epic for it's the heart of the cult, but DC would be epic for governmental and legislative reasons.
    How about both?
  27. Veszerin Member

    Re: epic raid poll

  28. Alive Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    I made the rewording of the thread purpose as an attempt to clear up misconceptions about the intention. Apparently I have failed somehow, I will try again.

    Many people in anonymous acknowledge that setting up a national event in addition to the monthly events would be a great way to put pressure on the CoS and to help build more media coverage of chanology and our cause. I will now explain why I feel that, we as a whole, should pick a single event as a "primary" hit.

    -Traveling across a country is no easy task, one must pay for the gas, plane tickets, hotels, eating out, etc to take on such a task. When simple rooms go for about $100 a night (cleaner, nicer rooms go up in price); plane fair costing at least $200 (usually much more round trip, this is per person btw); food costing maybe $10-20 a day per person; the cost of a trip could easily escalate for someone that lives away from the proposed national location.
    NOTE: some anons are capable of shitting money, this will not effect them.

    -Taking time off of work, family, and life can only be done so often. People in careers have a finite amount of vacation time, have to find baby-sitters for children, dog-sitters for dogs, etc,etc. It's not an easy task to just pack up and leave the home for a few days.
    NOTE: some anons have complete and total control of their schedule, this will not effect them.

    -We should also consider that while a national event will definitely be luzly, many people may have the ambition to do only one. Considering the amount of setup, stress, and preparation needed to accomplish such a feat.
    NOTE: some anons are very devoted and diligent (read: not ADHD), this will not affect them.

    All of these things considered, I think it would behoove us to pick one national target as a primary. I am not suggesting we don't do multiple national events, merely that we try to have people that can only attend one, for whatever reason, to focus their numbers on the event that will have the largest impact. The reason I put forth DC and CW is because at the time I made this thread they seemed to be the national ideas with the most support behind them, but no clear victor.

    That Is why I created this POLL (that's a form of voting, a.k.a. democracy, not sure how that's leadarr material, but maybe I'm confused) foreveryone to discuss and vote on what they feel would be the decision with the most impact.

    I hope this helps to clear up any and all confusion. I will not resort to personal attacks, however....

    lololol, please reread this section of my OP.

    friendly flame! friendly flame! MEDIC!!!
  29. Danilov Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    Hey Veszerin...

    It's his thread... so fuck off.
  30. Alive Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    This thread is for open debate of the issue, veszerin is welcome here.

    However, I would request that he keep personal attacks away, and refute my proposed concept with reason and logical points.

    Essentially, I believe he is trying to say that "No one should try to say that X is more important to Y"

    Which is true, all locations are important, but the objective here is "Everyone should try to compromise on which location will be most likely to garner national/international attention"

    It is also true that no ONE should be responsible for such a decision, which is why I created this as not only a poll, but as an open discussion (the very first line encourages people to digest the proposed ideas and reasons for each, and then choose which they feel would be optimal).

    Personally, as long as my work & school schedule will allow, and as long as I have enough money available, I will be going to as many national events as possible. However many anons are on tight schedules/budgets/etc and would be hard-pressed to go to even a single national event (they're already doing monthly local events remember), and as such I think it will benefit us if we can try to maximize a single national event.

    Consider these two reports. (numbers & dates are arbitrary)

    Washington DC had a large protest with over 900 people present in August
    LA had a large protest with over 600 people present in December
    Clearwater had a large protest with over 500 people present in July

    B: Washington DC had a massive 2-day long protest with nearly 1,500people
    LA had a large protest with over 300 people
    Clearwater had a large protest with over 250 people

    In my opinion, A will make major news in each of the respective cities, with DC likely getting national attention anyways. However, imagine the fucking amazement when we number in the 1,000s at one location, on one day, all with one united cry?

    bricks will be shat....
  31. zzzzzZZZZzzz Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    Having both is not a national/world meeting.. How about vote and let the chips fall where they may?

  32. Veszerin Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    ...I just lost the game.
  33. Danilov Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    Look, I apologize Ves if I've been less than courteous to you... I've been having to deal with a lot (and when I say a lot I mean like 30+) people on the IRC lately who have been screaming about how people like me, or nim, or the hundreds of other people who want to have big rallies in Chicago and LA, alongside the DC rally are "traitors" or "don't care about what's best for anonymous" like they think DC runs anonymous or some shit...

    ... it's really irritating and I'm sorry if I took that out on you.

    That being said, it seems to me that most anons (at least the one's who have responded to polls, topics, etc) do support the idea of holding a couple of big rallies this summer, and hold off on doing a national event for maybe fall or winter. When it does come time to hold a national anon rally, I support the idea of holding it in DC for the following reasons:
    1. Clearwater may be considered the Scis Mecca... but DC is still a vital city to them, it's the home of the "Founding" Church of Scientology, in addition it's the heart of all the government organizations we need on our side to get their exempt and/or religious status revoked.
    2. A truly national event will take a shitload of planning (like 4 months minimum)... but holding the rally in DC will make parts of that planning simpler... exhibit a: transportation - DC has regular air, train, and bus routes to it from hundreds of cities in the US... when was the last time you saw a bus leaving Austin or Kansas City for Clearwater? Yeah there's always the option of chartering, but again that's still easier when the service can take major highways and not have to take the less known routes to Clearwater. Exhibit b - space ... two words National Mall. Exhibit c - Notoriety, let's face it, there are a majority of the public who've ever heard of Clearwater, much less think much of whatever goes on their... but DC, you pull of a 9000 Anon March... that's big.

    Like I've said, we're not at the point where a truly national march is possible... but we're getting there. I wish DC the best with their BAR (big ass rally) and look forward to one day going their for 'the big finish' as it were.
  34. xellas420 Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    Vez, the point being made here is this:


    If they choose to go to regional, they CAN'T go to DC march on same month, because (like I said in my FIRST post) most Anons aren't made of money. Esp. those of us who live halfway across the country or further. I'd LOVE to go to both, really, I would... I've never even BEEN to DC before, and I'd like to go once in my life, but if I have to CHOOSE between there and Clearwater, then I'm hitting the beach for multiple reasons, not the least of which being better climate and family in that state. I don't appreciate you basically calling me a butthurt fag for not going to your DC march, which is what you've done several times in this thread already.

    tl;dr: You are basically telling all anons to skip their regional for your DC march by simple exclusion. That is YOU trying to make Anon into YOUR personal army, and therefore you fail and lose the game.
  35. Veszerin Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    no, i'm not.

    im saying that if they want to come, they can come, theres no fuckin boundrary where if 'you're over here, you have to go here, because other people voted for it'

    thats what i'm saying.
  36. Danilov Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    xellas - dc is one of the regionals, chicago anons are gonna hold a big event on the same day... and it looks like la will as well.

    Now then... let me just say the following:

    1. Everybody stop fucking accusing people of trying to use anon as 'their personal army'... clearly no one here is.

    2. Please realize that this topic has absolutely nothing to do with the july regional rallies (which as previously stated will take place in addition to normal monthly protests) it is merely a hypothetical asking about where we should hold a national protest that we may or may not have like next fall or winter or maybe next year.

    3. No more "douche-ery" (I'm looking at you ves)
  37. Veszerin Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    we're all on the same side here.

    Bai guise.
  38. Re: epic raid poll

    ITT the beginning of the end of chanology

    and i don't mean one in which scientology loses
  39. Re: epic raid poll

    ^^^ this
  40. nonasuch Member

    Re: epic raid poll

    I think the main issue right now is that people keep declaring a date for regionals-- wait until we get the permit for DC! It would really suck to make a ton of plans for regionals and whatnot, only to have our DC permit end up on a day that fucks everything up.

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