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Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

Discussion in 'Jett Travolta' started by cowboyanon2, Feb 2, 2009.

  1. cowboyanon2 Member

    Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

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    According to religions that practice faith healing, such as Christian Science and Scientology, using any sort of medical treatment would underestimate and doubt the almighty powers of God, and would ultimately cut them off from God. As parents, however, they must be able to balance their role as caretakers and as devoted followers.
    --------------------

    New University Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    not sure about the power of god in relation to CO$.. but anyway.. think this is a reference to Jett..

    at what point does a child's life and safety outweigh the parents religious freedom...
  2. Pacifist Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    If you're that devout, then it just means God wanted your child to die and go to him, or in Scientology's case, your kid will just abandon the meat body and reincarnate.
  3. cowboyanon2 Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    so should the gov't step in?

    should florida have stepped in and told John.. hey ur kid is suffering here and can die.. u need to get him on medication.. or is it a matter where we should let parents decide based on their beliefs...
  4. mrfyde Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    Once while meeting Christian Scientist she went out of her way to make it VERY clear to me she was NOT a Scientologist. - Tru Fax. Even Christian Scientists think Scilons are weird. (she also said getting somebody to "pray away illness" for you starts at about $20)
  5. Ravenmore Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    This reminds me of a story I heard in church.
    A man was living in an area known for floods, and one day a flood warning was posted. One of his friends comes by soon afterwords, and tells him "Hey, there's a flood coming, come on, lemme help you out of here." but the guy responds "No, god will protect me." so the friend leaves. Soon, the waters start to rise to about half-way up on the tires, and another one of his friends drives by and asks "Hey, need a lift? Let's get out of here before the waters get higher." But the guy responds again with "No, god will protect me." and his friend drives off. Soon the waters reach higher, and higher, and eventually trap the man on the roof. A guy rides up in a motorboat "Hey, why don't you hop inside my boat and I'll take you to dry land." but the guy says again "No, god will protect me." Guy rides off, waters continue to rise, and the man drowns.
    Later in heaven, the man asks god "Why didn't you protect me?" and god replies "What are you talking about? I sent two of your friends and that guy in the motorboat to try to save you."

    tl;dr version: Medicine != lack of faith. Funny how some people get a little too wrapped up in their dogma...
    not sure what exactly this has to do with Jett and Co$ though...
  6. Jettlag Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    Don't know the medical laws but I would imagine doctors do have to report situations like this to some agency. But that assumes the Travoltas took him to a doc or any docs all along which would include specialties like a pediatric neurologist so that it could be detected and have records. The stupid Depakote story alone has so many medical holes in it I doubt he saw virtually any docs/pros ever.

    But, there is a fed law called Child Find which does say it is the state gov.'t agency's JOB to identify kids who need therapies and services. Parents have sued when states have not done their jobs in id'ing kids that need help. I think sometimes, but rarer, states can intervene against parents if kids need help and parents unwilling. But Child Find is for life & school functioning, not life & death medical.

    That Child Find law may have prevented a 16 yo with "autistic symptoms" (face it, autism) not speaking. In fact, the minute his Kawasaki Syndrome produced whatever symptoms the Travoltas thought it did, they could've gotten help for him (speech, social skills, OT, etc.) back then through EI, early intervention which is usually initiated by either a pediatrician or parent referral. And during the 0-5 ages, most of the professionals involved aren't keen on slapping big labels on kids so the A word didn't even have to be used - they're more concerned with treating symptoms at that age like speech delay = speech therapy. The law covers 0-18 or 21 depending on the kid's symptoms severity. IDEA Child Find Project If he went through EI/Child Find, more people/pros would have known about his condition. Silly me, the screenings for Child Find include IQ assessment by a psych and other assessments by appropriate pros, so that was unlikely to have happened for Jett.

    This kid fell through the cracks so badly. By him either being in a Co$ school or homeschooled, there was no detection. Ironically, homeschool is a really really bad decision for Autistic kids since they need to be schooled in and exposed to social situations like classrooms. Living in gated mansions with celebrity $ insulating him from society didn't help him get the type of help other kids like him get and are entitled to either.

    And the kicker is special needs kids cost $ even after insurance and to supplement the publicly provided services which the Travoltas had (for 0-5 the public services are usually excellent services) or you can go private - most special needs parents would LOVE to be in the financial predicament the Travoltas were in - since theoretically they have an extra $10k for tutoring, $30k for an excellent autistic school or whatever amount that crops up as needed & nice to have from time to time. They had the means for this kid to live a completely different functional life (and still be alive right now)... Ohmygosh, they could have researched the best pediatric neurologist in the country and flown Jett there for appts!
  7. pardmepard Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    I think at the end of the day, it should serve as a lesson and reminder that denial of disabilities is harmful to ones health.

    Sadly, not just in scientology, but many families, denial is a common response to children with disabilities. For scientology to promote this dogma and willfully discriminate against children with disabilities is wrong and they should be held accountable.

    The question also is, why does Religious right, supercede, civil and human rights ?

    All to often, scientology exploits religious freedoms at the expenses of someones civil and human rights. Enough is enough Damn it.

    This is worse in the end than the normal parental human response of not accepting a child's disabilities and scientology exploits this, because they just can't have anyone taking away attention from them "clearing the planet(extorting the whole world)"

    I was a child with disabilities in scientology. I know.
    Even normal child issues such as dental work and eating decent food is abandoned for the sake of "clearing the world(scientology's greedy worldly dicks)

    Sadly the Travolta's ignored the "problem"(circumstance) until it went away.

    And Jett went away.
  8. Jettlag Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    Very well said pardmepard.

    You nailed the following statements so well.

    Beyond the Lisa McPherson's, scamming the gov.'t, family disconnection, fair game, etc. which are all horrific, this morally reprehensible element affecting non-$ci's exists and it needs to be stopped. They are like vultures feeding on parents of kids with disabilities worst misinformed needless fears which is a societal issue as it affects the *kids*.

    Soapbox rant over (or is that moralfag whatever...).
  9. pardmepard Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure


    For someone who has Jettlag, you sure post good points on the issue ; )
  10. crockhat Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    Heard that saying "there are no atheists in foxholes"? There's another saying: "There are no christians in hospitals". Seriously, how do people know whether it's god's will or not?

    I also think it's interesting that the same pope who no doubt believes in god's will has X-inch bulletproof glass on his pope mobile.

    I don't see many Christians drinking poison to test their faith these days, either....

    BibleGateway.com - PassageLookup: Mark 16:17-18
  11. pardmepard Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure



    ^^^THIS^^^


    lULz
  12. cubby Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    there may be fairies
    there may be elves
    but god helps those
    who help themselves

    you heard it here chilluns
  13. Herro Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    oh lawdy, praise be to jebus
  14. cowboyanon2 Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    hypothetically.. if Kelly Preston and John had split up... both going for custody.. and lets say Kelly left the cult... and wanted treatment for Jett and John still wanted to follow CO$ doctrine with no psych meds...

    then.. just because of john's unwillingness to treat Jett.. Kelly would likely get custody...

    iow.. kelly had a chance to get jett treated..

    and I agree that Jett fell through the cracks of the system.. probably only seeing fake CO$ dr.s and attending CO$ schools..
  15. azonymous Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    And I don't think he saw much of anyone after he got older...
    I believe he was an embarrassement...
    an adult sized "Degraded Being"...
    in your face proof that they couldn't make him right...
    even with all their soooper powerzzzzz

    and another thought
    As large as he was
    Adult hormones and urges would have kicked in
    How would that be handled
    Tough situation
  16. cowboyanon2 Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    the whole degraded being philosophy of CO$ is despicable...

    here is another article talking about faith vs. reason..

    ------------------
    Life, health, and prosperity on this Earth require a commitment by individuals to objective reality and a critical approach to knowledge as well as a culture to support that commitment. How can we promote such a culture? One way is to treat those who advocate beliefs--whether religious, ideological, or otherwise--not based on or subject to reason and critical thinking the same way we should treat those who hate others based purely on race or some other accident of birth: Their ideas should be legally tolerated but their irrationality treated as ugly and immoral.

    It's always sad when a young life like Jett Travolta's is ended so prematurely. For those who value life, such tragedies should reinforce the commitment to reason, our basic tool for surviving and flourishing in this world.
    -------------------------

    Fredericksburg.com - Stop condoning 'isms' and fairy-tale 'science'
  17. Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    I have posted this before, it is very relevant to this thread. Most states have "religious exemption" clauses that allow parents to deny their children proper medical treatment based on their religious beliefs. Yes, parents are allowed to legally KILL their children. SOMEtimes the offense is so offensive that the parents do face some legal censor...but as you read through the cases in the link I post, if you can stomach it, you will see that the legal action is few and far between, and a slap on the wrist.

    If I had a secondary target to consider once the cult is gone, I'd seriously consider going after religious exemptions state by state...children have a right to life once they're here on this earth, a right not to be murdered by their parent's religious bullshit.

    Death By Religious Exemption

    and this one

    What's the harm in being a child?
  18. francie Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    In many ways, children are still considered as "chattel" in the USA.
  19. azonymous Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    very offensive

    reading about the infants that instead of mothers milk or formula were given a vegetarian diet? WTF???

    And how do the scienos get away with giving their babies barley water and corn syrup, that is so unhealthy and gross...
    I'm sure they're discouraged from natural nursing because 1) takes time away from co$ and 2) creates more bond with a child, possibly interfering with future neglect, abuse
    grrrrrrrrr
  20. nightfire Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    I think we need to be VERY careful about parental rights here.

    I have lived in a state where parent's had almost NO right to decide what is best for their family, and a state where parents are much more free to follow their own judgment.

    The problem with a government enforced medical mandate is shown clearly in this case.
    Utah Backs Off Forced Chemo, Parents Refuse To Give 12-Year-Old Son Chemo Treatment - CBS News

    In this case, the tumor was removed and there was no further sign of cancer in the boy. But a bunch of Doctors wanted to give him Chemo because that is "Standard Procedure" for his condition. The state of Utah stepped in and tried to force Chemo on a boy who didn't have cancer, because in cases like his 50% of the time the cancer shows back up. SRSLY WTF? Destroy his ability to grow normally, and his ability to have kids..ect. on a 50/50 shot?
    End result 5 yrs later Kid still hasn't had Chemo, and shows no sign of cancer. The Parents were right. http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=4348490

    Giving government the power to choose for you isn't a good idea. In the states that come close there are laws that keep midwives from practicing, forcing women to either give birth alone, or go to a hospital and try to fight against their "standard procedures" (some of which have no scientific backing and have even been proved to be more harmful then helpful by scientific studies)

    I believe in a person's inalienable right to choose what medical care they receive and that MOST parents love their kids and are trying to do the right thing for them. I believe that most parents know their child better then anyone else could, and so most of the time know whats right for them. I would rather have someone who loves me and is concerned for me make medical decisions for me then a disinterested-detached 3rd party who could care less about how the decision impacts me.

    Is it sad that some parents are willing to lose a child over their beliefs? Yeah it is! But is it scary to let the government decide arbitrarily what is and isn't good for EVERY kid? Absolutely!
    For me it's all about INFORMED CONSENT knowing as much as you can about it, then making your choice. Even if some Doctors don't agree with you.
  21. themadhair Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    /r/ list of cases where parents were wrong in order for this to be something other than pick'n'choose confirmational bias.
  22. Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    I disagree. The religious exemption has harmed far more children than you can imagine. That has nothing to do with the parental right to work with doctors and seek other opinions for the treatment of serious diseases...at least THAT child was being treated. Adults have the right to refuse treatment. FINE. But children should be given every possible chance at life. READ THE FUCKING LISTS I POSTED, ALL of those children died from easily treatable diseases. IN FACT some dumb ass parents just lost their child and endangered countless others because they did not vaccinate their child. They should be prosecuted, seriously the KID IS DEAD. I love a good conspiracy just as much as the next guy but parents who refuse to vaccinate their kids need to go to jail. They not only endanger THEIR kids, but countless others.

    Where is the child's right to choose eh? I am sure if you asked them, they'd fucking choose life while their brainwashed parents sit there and pray to Raptor Jesus thinking that somehow, if there IS a god, he didn't fucking invent medicine in the first place. STUPID PEOPLE MUST DIAF.
  23. Panama Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    ^^^ THIS!

    I can't imagine how horrible it would be to be a child who is suffering, and knowing I'll die because my parents would rather pray than allow me proper medical care that could save me, or give me a better chance at life.
  24. cowboyanon2 Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    there are just too many functionally retarded or mentally unstable or drug addicted or cult following parents in the world not to protect the child'd life.. imo..
  25. nightfire Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    I totally get that some parents are stupid, and hurt their kids with their stupidity, and that is very sad. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about giving a government the power to make decisions, then expecting the parents to deal with any repercussions from the decision they had no part in. Lets stay with the vaccination topic.

    OK questions.

    When do you vaccinate? With which vaccines? Who gets to make that decision? Who decides which vaccines are required?

    See I like Vaccines, I think they are great! My children will be fully vaccinated by the time they go to school (if I ever have any)
    But there is quite the controversy about WHEN, and WHAT to vaccinate with. There is a growing community of Doctors that think we are over vaccinating at too young of an age, and are seeing problems with the use of multiple combination vaccines at one time.

    For example Hep. B. Hepatitis B virus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Now it's mostly transmitted through sexual contact, and shared needles, but can also be passed from mother to baby. Now lets say I've tested negative for Heb. B. and I have a child... Does that child HAVE to be vaccinated as a newborn? I mean I doubt the child is sexually active, or is an I.V. Drug user (the risk groups for this disease) I think the vaccine is a great thing to get! But minutes after birth? Who thought that was a great idea? Should I go to jail because I want to wait to vaccinate for that disease till they are older? Say 8 or 10.

    Now lets talk about the MMR. All conspiracy theories aside, Should I have the right as a parent to choose when and how my child receives it? Do I HAVE to use the combination vaccine because it is more convenient, or am I allowed to get the individual vaccines? Once again at what point do I go to jail for not vaccinating? What if I want to wait until just before they go to Kindergarten? Is that allowable? I had a VERY bad reaction to this vaccine, there is a high probability that any kids I have would too. (I almost died) I was in a Children's Hospital for 4 weeks, and would not like to go through that as a parent.

    What about more controversial vaccines like the one for HPV? Would that one be required? See HPV is spread by unprotected sexual contact with an infected person. As shocking as it is to some people, not everyone has unprotected sex. Would boys be required to get it as well as girls? (since they can carry it) Or would it just be girls...

    Then you get into the whole Allergies issue... See most vaccines are made with eggs. What happens to the parent of the child who is allergic? Do they go to jail? The child can't be vaccinated. What if it is a Series vaccine with 4 rounds needed, and the kid has a bad reaction to the 1st vaccine, but ends up ok. Does the parent have to continue with that series?

    The issue is not nearly as Black and White as you make it seem. There are lots of factors that need to be taken into account when making medical decisions. There are many more factors that complicate this issue, I have only presented a few. Medical decisions should NEVER be made out of fear of government reprisals!

    I totally get why some parents don't vaccinate. It's not like the child can't choose to go get them done when they are older. It is incredibly rare for an unvaccinated child to die from one of those diseases. In unvaccinated populations the incidence of these diseases is the same as vaccinated populations.
    I also totally get why you feel the way you do! I imagine being a parent is difficult. Having all that responsibility must weigh very heavy at times. To not have the right to make medical decision for your kids, but still having the responsibility for the outcome.... how does that work?
  26. Lednir Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    The difference here lies in the conflict between parental rights and logical course of action. Everyone can see that if a child is dying, the correct thing to do is give them treatment where available. When you get into preventative medicine, it's not so black-and-white. Personally I think in the majority of cases large amounts of supportive evidence for the benefits of vaccination, etc, should outweigh parental discretion.
    In the UK many parents aren't giving their children the MMR vaccine, despite the so-called "evidence" linking it with autism being disproven, and the much higher rates of successful immunity as a result of combined vaccination. This means it's very likely we'll have a measles endemic pretty soon, as a result of uneducated parents making bad decisions.
    Obviously, praying or auditing when an adult is suffering is not so bad; they can make their own decisions, no matter how stupid it is. On the other hand, children cannot. Frankly for me, the fact that they are putting their own children, and others at risk by not vaccinating them makes them worthy of being looked down upon, but prosecution should be saved for clear-cut cases where the suffering (or death) of a minor could be eased at the time rather than eventually prevented, but for uneducated or devout (frequently both) parents.

    tl;dr Just read the last paragraph.

    Note: The MMR vaccine isn't just "more convenient", it is much more effective than the single vaccinations.
    There are albumin-free vaccinations. HPV isn't controversial, no-one's saying that the vaccine means the girl will eventually contract the virus, and males can contract cancers from females, but the rate of penile cancers as a result of this is lower, so vaccination is not cost-effective. "In unvaccinated populations the incidence of these diseases is the same as vaccinated populations. " This is false. Hepatitis B vaccinations are now recommended at 6 months-2 years for maximum efficacy.
  27. pardmepard Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    religious exemption over civil and human rights ?

    These religions are practicing medicine without a licenses.

    These religions/doctrines take away a parents right to choose, not the government.
    These "religions/doctrines take away informed consent.

    Accountability after the fact will work if this is what is needed.

    I think if CERTAIN parents adhere to doctrines that are detrimental to the child's welfare then yes the STATE should step in, just like it does when illegal drugs are detrimental to the child's welfare and I think as in the previous post and Jett Travolta attest, it is well documented that these parents shouldn't have parental rights.

    Being a Parent is a Privilege, not a right.

    What about the child's welfare and rights ?
  28. Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    That is just bullshit. Just don't. Keep that vaccine TFhattery at the conspiracy forums. Children are dying of easily preventable diseases, things we had beaten in the U.S. because of stupid ass people like YOU. Google measles. Those parents who just lost their baby deserve every second of suffering they are facing, EVERY SINGLE SECOND, they KILLED their baby. Had that child been properly vaccinated it would fucking be alive, and every single person and child that baby came into contact with was unnecessarily put at risk. I SWEAR I will sue into oblivion any parent whose unvaccinated kid causes the illness or death of anyone I love.

    MY GOD people in third world countries would KILL for the vaccines to save their children that the arrogant parents in the U.S. are denying their children.

    "Jan. 23, 2009 - A Hib meningitis outbreak has killed one Minnesota infant and sickened four others, prompting the CDC to warn parents to make sure their kids have had their basic Hib vaccinations.

    Hib is Haemophilus influenzae type B. Before a vaccine became available in 1992, some 20,000 U.S. children under age 5 got severe Hib infections every year, resulting in about 1,000 deaths.

    Minnesota hadn't had a Hib death since 1991. Now the state is facing it's biggest outbreak since 1992 -- and it may not be just that one state, warns Anne Schuchat, MD, director of the CDC's National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases."

    Just NO. Keep that TFhattery off here. Children are dying without need, and without choice...due to their fucking parent's stupidity.

    tl;dr, many stupid anti vaccination parents are falsely using the RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION clause (that most states have to varying degress) to keep from vaccinating their kids because they are batshit insane. PERIOD. The religious exemption clause murders children. PERIOD!
  29. Lednir Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    I don't live in the US, but I thought that this had been retracted and now parents could not use their religion as a means of denying their children medical care, or is it a grey area?
  30. pardmepard Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure


    It is time, time to make a bill and go to capital hill to amend the RELIGIOUS EXEMPTION clause when concerning children and medical issues.

    I would love to at least see the Travoltings get charged and even better if convicted.

    In certain cause where warranted I think the Government should get involved when Parents step over the line of the child's welfare and wellbeing.
  31. Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    No, it's individual to each state, meaning most states have them, and each state has different definitions and baselines for it. You will find the biggest religious whackos in the most anal about religion states that will protect them from killing their children. You can check the links I posted on the previous page, you can sort of tell which states do not prosecute by the stories, and thus attract the most whackos. There are anti vaccination forums where people advise each other on how to abuse/use the religious exemption to avoid saving their child's life.
  32. cowboyanon2 Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    well thats one reason the whole travolta thing is annoying.... people act like he is being jumped on because he is a celebrity... and we should just give him space to grieve...

    but lets say joe blow down the street.. had a son who died from a severe seizure... and he had been having these seizure like every four days, but joe never went and got medical help coz he was a christian scientist... would those same people be saying the same thing... hell no..

    they would be the ones on the frontline.. digging into what medical treatment was given when and for how long etc...

    travolta is getting a pass because of his celebrity.. and because he is a likable celebrity...
  33. Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    You're right, it should and must be done, but OMG talk about the religions whinning...that will be a shit storm of such epic proportions...not all relgions take it to the extreme, but most would join in the fight because they would see it as an incursion on their religious right. But hell, even the Amish seek medical care for their children, they might not drive to the hospital or doctor themselves (they hire a driver) but at least they seek care. They actually love their children.
  34. azonymous Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    fx'd
  35. Jettlag Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    Thx. Mutual admiration here. You mentioned you were a $ci kid with disabilities. Don't know, not my biz what those disabilities were/are e.g., cognitive, neurobiological, physical but kids with disabilities can be (is) a tough road without $ci much less with that cult handicap so that speaks volumes. You probably have some great story behind you and you sure were a heckuva lot more 'with it' & spot on than most neurotypicals in your observations.
  36. Jettlag Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    Agreed on epic shitstorm. The $ci cult thing hides beyond core U.S. freedom of religion belief and its same centuries old law in our Constitution.

    There was a travesty a few years back in that crazy person went into and shot up Amish schoolhouse. A few Amish kids died, many other Amish kids critically injured and lesser wounds but all needed immediate modern medical care. Whatever their parents' religious beliefs, those kids were put on helicopters and in ambulances to modern hospitals where their lives could be saved. Life support and hospitals definitely use electricity. Parents used same modern transportation modes to be in the hospitals with their kids.

    Point is, it is the rare parent that walks away from life saving or quality of life treatment for their kids based on faith when the kid is at stake. Parents generally prefer and think of alive vs. dead kids as their parental *responsibility*.
  37. cowboyanon2 Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    ahh.. good to know.. have been wondering about the amish and menonites.. there are a lot in this neck of the woods...

    wonder if they see regular doctors...
  38. MomE2Dallas Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure


    Do you have kids? If so did you research vaccines before you allowed your child to receive them? If not, you're just as guilty as the Travoltas are. They followed their herd and are being criticized for it, however, all those people who blindly have their kids vaccinated without bothering to do the research are just as guilty of following the herd.

    If I had done the research I probably would have changed the way I had my son vaccinated; I would have used an alternative schedule and would have even separated some of the combination vaccines. I didn't. I followed the herd and my child suffered from encephalopathy and eventually was diagnosed with autism as a result. Do you realize that everytime a new vaccine is added to the schedule, the rate of autism goes up? Did you know that when my son was born in 1998, the rate of autism was 1:10,000 and now the rate is 1:150?

    Until you hear the high-pitched squeal of your child caused by their brain swelling up inside their tiny little head you will never understand what I am talking about. Until you see your happy, engaged, interactive, playful 15 month old who would eat anything you put in front of him and could speak about 25 words, turn into an unhappy toddler who self-limits his food down to only five very specific crunchy foods, can no longer say anything, will not engage with anyone and the only way he knows how to play is by picking up his toy and taking it to the coffee table and spinning it, you have no right to judge.

    My child no longer receives vaccines. You can call me an abusive parent and think I belong in jail. I don't give a rat's patootie. I might have been too late to stop the initial harm, but I have since done the research and made an informed decision along with my doctor to no longer give him any vaccines. I will always worry about that decision, but either way I am taking a chance, since nobody knows why the initial vaccines he received caused his brain to swell, there is a high possibility that any future vaccines could cause the same reaction. As it is, in the last nine years, he has come a long way....had I allowed him to be injected again, who knows...he might not be doing so well now. If the government told me "vaccinate him or go to jail", I'd go to jail....and I'm not crazy or brainwashed. I'm just a mom who loves her kid enough to protect him. You can allow your child to be collateral damage and I agree that for the whole, vaccines are a positive, but I'm not willing to allow my child to suffer again for the good of the whole. As for him being a danger to your child....if the vaccines work so well, why worry about it? Your child should be safe, right?
  39. cubby Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    /popcorn

    there's no scientific evidence that vaccines cause autism, you know

    correlation doesn't equal causation
  40. Jettlag Member

    Re: Faith Over Medicine: Praying for a Cure

    Here is the wikipedia on the Amish tragedy. The victims and Amish response of forgiveness sections mention medical stuff.

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