Addition for Lucas Catton: all of my Scientology and Narconon-related friends disconnected https://whyweprotest.net/threads/th...ist-hits-over-1900.102868/page-2#post-2166293
Addition for D: Tom De Vocht Friends were bullied into disconnecting from him https://whyweprotest.net/threads/to...-leave-my-family-and-my-friends-alone.124395/
For the following names on the big list, please add the label "Victim of disconnection" to their name with the links I am giving. L Mona Larson 4 daughters disconnected https://androvillans.wordpress.com/2011/07/page/4/ Nate Larson 4 daughters disconnected https://androvillans.wordpress.com/2011/07/page/4/ Lee Lawrence Sr. Affidavit about disconnection being encouraged or enforced http://www.xenu-directory.net/mirrors/www.whyaretheydead.net/misc/Factnet/MANYAFFS.TXT Ian Douglas Lee dear friends disconnected http://www.mikerindersblog.org/me-and-my-big-mouth-food-for-thought-chapter-2/ Angela Lemay Got FB messages from COS members urging her to disconnect from “SP’s” on FB https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/04/02/ Citation My friends list has decreased by 300 in the last 72 hours – their loss. Phillip Levin Went down 100 friends on FN within a few days http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?38105-This-is-what-disconnection-looks-like-on-Facebook Gene Lindsay Scientology friends disconnected https://backincomm.wordpress.com/2014/02/07/our-staff-story-gene-and-leeann-lindsay/ LeeAnn Lindsay Scientology friends disconnected https://backincomm.wordpress.com/2014/02/07/our-staff-story-gene-and-leeann-lindsay/ Meshell Little Son Jeremy Powers disconnected. Jeremy in turn was threatened with losing his girlfriend so he had to make a choice. https://littledoubt.wordpress.com/ Carmen Llywelyn Friends and manager disconnected https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) Paulien Lombard All her friends disconnected http://www.ocweekly.com/news/paulien-lombard-was-a-spyentologist-6421248 Claudio Lugli His son Flavio tried to convince him to disconnect from his other son Tiziano. When that failed, Flavio decided to disconnect. https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/12/22/flavio-a-stolen-son-by-renata-lugli/ Renata Lugli Hers son Flavio tried to convince her to disconnect from her other son Tiziano. When that failed, Flavio decided to disconnect. https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/12/22/flavio-a-stolen-son-by-renata-lugli/ Tiziano Lugli Brother Flavio disconnected. Same link.
Claire tells here about that her mother disconnected and how they met in the hospital where her grandmother was at the time: http://www.breakingfromscientology.com/happy-mothers-day/ I'm sure there are numerous other stories.
Edited Marc Headley tells his disconnection story here. His mother and sister disconnected. http://tonyortega.org/2013/07/17/scientology-claims-no-forced-disconnection-so-tell-us-about-yours/
Jeff Hawkins was told that he could not contact his Scientologist friends. http://infinitecomplacency.blogspot.com/2008/12/4-jeff-hawkins-story.html. They also tried to force his brother to disconnect. http://tonyortega.org/2013/07/17/scientology-claims-no-forced-disconnection-so-tell-us-about-yours/
I may have a link for Dallas Hill. Here Jenna, his wife, tells about an encounter with two COS people. She tells using "we", thus IMHO implying that Dallas agrees with every single word: "Dallas’s parents pleaded with us to try and cooperate so that they wouldn’t have to decide between us and Scientology." Short: His parents felt they had to choose between him and Scientology. https://xenutv.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/scientology-contacts-jenna-miscavige-hill/ I may be just me but I don't remember seeing him do his own interview or something.
I don't separately tag people who have suffered disconnection, but this should be a target-rich list: Category: Disconnection
Tony's summary http://tonyortega.org/2013/07/17/scientology-claims-no-forced-disconnection-so-tell-us-about-yours/ can also be used for Dean Blair Brothers and sisters and daughter all disconnected Anette Iren Johansen DSA of her org asked her FB friends to make up their mind when she announced her relationship with Geir Isene. 95 people disconnected without questions. Richard Lloyd-Roberts was forced to disconnect from his wife's father and stepmother. They were ordered to write disconnection letters Chris Mann The two orgs where he had services went to work to make sure his friends and family disconnected, including his brother in law. Cindy Plahuta Daughter Kara Landry and stepdaughter Cara Plahuta disconnected and stopped calling her. Her husband divorced her. Gerhard Waterkamp A business associate disconnected (and lots more about people who disconnected from his wife) Chrissie Weightman OSA was trying to get a friend to disconnect from her, her husband and their children.
Someone posted Sheila Huber's videos with a short index for each one http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?26313-Sheila-Huber-speaks-out-on-Scientology-Video-series No mention of disconnection.
I surprised me a bit to see how many of the stories are done by journalists like Tony or Jonny. I guess there is a high human interest factor in the stories.
Compared to the rest of the mindfuckery, it's a straightforward story to tell and for people to grasp.
Now this is only a question, please discuss first before changing anything on the list. Would it be an idea to somehow put the links to testimonials etc. in a separate section or something? So first the introductory text, then a section about disconnection not being a voluntary choice, and then the names.
I don't see a huge advantage to doing that, other than having a heading/#anchor that can be appended to the URL to skip the intro/menu, which anyone can already do by just appending #A to the URL. The intro text is pretty short, I really added the video to just get us past that extraordinary long vertical alphabet "Contents" menu indentation without "wall-of-text"ing too much BTW, adding headings/sections makes that vertical menu longer, which is an automated thing that I don't control.
Ok, than the alternative would be to just put the links with affidavits etc. in the introduction text. Should an affidavit also include a description about actual disconnection from/by the person her/himself than it would be no problem to use the link twice. Idea?
Pardon? Alternative to what? I have a sneaking suspicion you've been talking about something entirely other than what I gathered you were. Can you do a mock-up/screenshot so I understand what the fuck you're on about? I'm confused by you saying "links to testimonials etc." and "links with affidavits etc." which to me means all the links.
I am assuming the affidavits, testimonials etc. are not (all) actual disconnection stories, so they are not all proof that someone is a victim. However, they ARE proof that disconnection is coerced or forced upon a member. So I would think it would be wise to expand the introduction text. Below the phrase "to refute claims..." etc I would put the names and links for Vickie Aznaran, Roger Gonnet, Paul Groswald and Lee Lawrence, plus any future names and links. Then we start with A, list of names, B, list of names, etcetera. Any affidavit that is both proof of forced disconnection as a COS policy and an actual story proving someone to be a victim we can list both in the introductory text and below the correct letter from the alfabet. So one would have to actually read an affidavit to decide where it should be. Alas, I am too lazy for that. So I'd say we put all the affidavits in the introductory text while deleting them from the list.
Ok, now I can see the problem you're proposing to solve. To me an alternative solution logically presents itself from your very words. We change the name of the page from "Victims of Scientology's Disconnection Policy" to "Proof of Scientology's Disconnection Policy" The first paragraph of the intro text would change to: "The following is a list of people that either have suffered under the policy of disconnection imposed by the Church of Scientology (CoS) or have witnessed such suffering. The names listed include both former members and non-members affected." That way we keep all the names and contextual links as is.
That is exactly as I meant, and that's a good idea! Go ahead. Will the link to the page as it is now (with the word "victim") still be available after changing the name of the page? If easily possible please do so. It wouldn't be a problem though if you can't do that.
Done, and I tested the old link which now redirects to http://whyweprotest.wikia.com/wiki/Proof_of_Scientology's_Disconnection_Policy
Do we need to say "Proof of Scientology's Disconnection Policy as Told by Former Members and Others"??
Scientology no longer denies that it practices something called "disconnection", but it re-defines that to mean a voluntary disassociation on the part of homo novis from people they feel are harming them, like an abused spouse disconnecting from their abuser. I think it would be good to word things carefully so as to indicate that scientology's disconnection is not voluntary but mandatory, and that any homo novis refusing the scientology corporation's order to "disconnect" will themselves be "declared SP" and become a victim of scientology's disconnection. It's not enough simply to say that disconnection exists since the scientology corporation openly admits that it does, the message is that "mandatory disconnection" is what the cult practices.
I have doubts on the phrase "or have witnessed such suffering" I understand that the phrase makes it possible to include testimonials from people who don't have their own disconnection story but saw what happened to others. However, I am focused on finding the most obvious stories so we have a good start. So it may well be that I have been inconsequential in giving links for stories. In my search until now I have concentrated on people experiencing disconnection in their own life, e.g. from their own brothers, sisters, whatnot. There was more than occurrence where someone on the list told they saw disconnection by or from others, but had no personal involvement (no family, no friends). Mostly I have disregarded those stories. It's fine with me if we choose to broaden the search to include those cases. But I don't plan on doing A-L (even more than A-E ) again....
For the following names on the big list, please add the label "Victim of disconnection" to their name with the links I am giving. M (part 1 of 2) Kathy Mace Scientology PTS/SP tech & disconnection mandates ruined her family and caused untold heartache. http://kathymace.blogspot.nl/2009/11/just-in-case-someone-does-not-believe.html Chris Mann The two orgs where he had services went to work to make sure his friends and family disconnected, including his brother in law. http://tonyortega.org/2013/07/17/scientology-claims-no-forced-disconnection-so-tell-us-about-yours/ Chris Many Featured in the show Dangerous Persuasions which tells Nancy story. Tony Ortega liveblogging http://tonyortega.org/2013/01/16/to...logy-spying-and-interrogation-on-id-at-10-pm/ Nancy Many Featured in the show Dangerous Persuasions which tells her story. Tony Ortega liveblogging http://tonyortega.org/2013/01/16/to...logy-spying-and-interrogation-on-id-at-10-pm/ Lance Marcor Testifies about disconnection in the Kyle Brennan case https://vbreton2062.wordpress.com/britton-deposition-rick-ross/ Teresa Marks Her godmother disconnected https://backincomm.wordpress.com/2014/03/30/run-forest-run/ Greg Marlowe Was told repeatedly to handle or disconnect his father http://www.xenu-directory.net/mirrors/www.whyaretheydead.net/misc/Factnet/MANYAFFS.TXT Linda McCarthy Son disconnected https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/05/12/linda-mccarthy-declaration-of-independence/ James McGuigan has been disconnected from his father and sister for several years
Do we need to say "Proof of Scientology's Disconnection Policy as Told by Former Members and Others"?? this works
the argument there is that the COS "suggests" you disconnect or this or that will happen to you. (and labeled PTS and or an SP) The COS's argument is that the person has the final say on whether they want to or not. Their lies the rub. Yeah I know. they are pressured, sec checked and the whole nine yards, but the COS stands by their "it is the members choice and final decision to do so or not"
Before, Incred and I discussed a little about the page title. I think this helped me understand my feelings of discomfort better. We have several different situations: 1. Someone telling (s)he disconnected him/herself from a relative or personal friend, or was disconnected from by a relative or personal friend. 2. Person Z telling he or she SAW person X disconnecting from person Y. So no personal story. 3. Affidavits in court and so on etc. about how COS uses the disconnection policy. As of now we have by far most stories of type 1, while also having a few in type 3. I don't think I have given links of type 2 stories. I'm with RO on throwing in "mandatory". I don't want to do that. While still in COS people feel obliged to disconnect because they are afraid of what may happen to themselves if they don't. Jason Barclay is an example. In his case COS will probably say it was his own choice, but I still want him on the list, so as to show how deeply instilled the fear is. Additional thoughts and analysis welcome.
Scientology saying that disconnection is voluntary is like saying that paying your taxes is voluntary, or not committing murder is voluntary. Mandatory doesn't mean that it is impossible to choose otherwise, but if you do the consequences are severe. Mandatory also doesn't mean that nobody would chose it voluntarily if they were not coerced. Lots of people would want to pay taxes even if there were no punishment for not doing so. Not committing murder, to give a more extreme example, is also mandatory, but taking away the punishment doesn't mean that everyone will suddenly go out and kill someone.
We don't disagree on this. I feel however that using the word "mandatory" will give the wrong impression of what kind of cases are on the list: - "Mandatory" as in I was ordered to do so. - "Mandatory" as in I feel like I have to. I may have a problem here with the finer details of the English language, so I'll just continue finding links.
I see what you mean. It would be nice though to get across the idea that disconnection is strictly enforced, and that while some homo novis practice it voluntarily, others feel coerced. It cheeses me off that the scientology corporation often gets away with saying that disconnection is voluntary in the media without any challenge.
Tommy Davis, Scientology Spokesman, Secretly Recorded Discussing 'Disconnection' August 30, 2011, Tony Ortega, Runnin' Scared, Village Voice
Whenever a story I found said "I was forced to disconnect" or something like that I tried to put that in the context I gave. Making this a list of "forced disconnections" (or any other similar word, like mandatory) by the way would mean less entries on the list, for I would think that for a lot of the links we can not PROVE the disconnection was forced/mandatory/whatever as it is not mentioned there.
Richard Fox Old friend disconnected https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2011/08/17/car-wash/#comment-143042
For the following names on the big list, please add the label "Victim of disconnection" to their name with the links I am giving. M (part 2 of 2) Deanne K. McMurdie Grandkids disconnected http://tonyortega.org/2013/05/09/lo...ogy-disconnection-surprises-her-son-in-texas/ Jenna Miscavige Letters from her parents were intercepted and she couldn't answer the phone. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenna_Miscavige_Hill Ron Miscavige Sr Daughters disconnected. He tells about this in his book Ruthless. Jana Moreillon Daughter disconnected http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/caroline-heads-up.html Wendy Munro Friends disconnected https://backincomm.wordpress.com/whos-declared/#comment-4586 Once again, call me stupid, but I leave it to others to find a link for Elizabeth Blythe Miscavige and Ron Miscavige Jr. Way too many links. I am quite sure though David disconnected... Charese Mongiello has a video where she talks about disconnection. Can anyone listen to it to find out if she tells her own story?
I do like the word Mandatory. How about this wording: Accounts of Scientology's Mandatory Disconnection Policy in Action Remember it's the POLICY that is mandatory, and the policy says "handle or disconnect" which is known/labelled as the "Disconnection Policy" because Scientologists really can't handle former/non-Scientologists who once they know the truth will never do the "A to E" steps or whatever would bring them back into Scientology, and often won't compromise their own integrity to play the "good roads, fair weather" game forever, eventually and almost always defaults to "disconnect."
