Firearms rumors and anecdotal evidence (no dox.)

Discussion in 'GoldBase' started by 33755, Mar 13, 2009.

  1. Anonymous Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    These claims haven't been limited to legal weapons. The affidavit brings up claims of thoroughly illegal arms, including manufacturing improvised explosives. Internet posters claimed to have seen fully automatic weapons.

    I'd bet you dollars-to-doughnuts that if I called the BATFE tomorrow, said I was an ex-Scientologist or some other person that had personally witnessed automatic weapons or improvised explosives at Gold, they'd be more than interested in looking into it.

    Or it's just a giant conspiracy and the inept feds are Waco-shy about these things.
  2. Herro Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Well said.

    It's tinfoilly when you start from the assumption that the CoS must have all kinds of crazy weapons and explosives, accept that as fact, and then start talking about how to prove this fact. In stead, you should start with the assumption that the CoS is not stockpiling weapons, and, based upon accusations that they do have weapons, search for evidence that would corroborate those claims.

    That's the problem, some seem to have confused investigating what are somewhat incredible claims with a priori acceptance and post hoc proof.
  3. Oswald2001 Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Basically, the only 2 groups that can get access to full-auto weapons in Kalifornia are Law Enforcement/Military and some Show Biz companies.

    Law Enforcement/Military has needs for obvious reasons and Show Biz is allowed restricted, though permitted, access for the purpose of making movies. (The movie industry is a BIG money maker for Kalifornia)

    It used to be that some manufacturers could possess full-auto weapons in the legitimate course of business, but, Kalifornia has gotten so gun unfriendly that all the full-auto manufacturers are located in other states.

    In years before all the Hitlerian Gun Control Nonsense, private citizens could own full-auto weapons (aka Class III) in Kalifornia.

    Arizona, Utah, Nevada, Wyoming, Idaho, Oregon and Washington (and plenty of other states) all allow private ownership of Class III weapons.

    Kalifornia is the wierdo.
  4. Oswald2001 Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    The people at Waco didn't have the money that the $cilons do and aren't 'lawyered up' like the $cilons are.

    Remember, the $cilons took on the IRS...and won.

    The BATFE is scared of the $cilons too.

    That's why it is so important for Anonymous to keep chipping away at the Evil Space Alien Cult.

    The public is more informed and thus more alarmed about the $cilons.

    The press is far less afraid than they used to be.

    The Feds will one day do their duty...after....Anonymous has paved the way.
  5. cubby Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

  6. Anonymous Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    words...better than mine...thanks
  7. LocalSP Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    As was mentioned before Gold has an in house movie studio.
  8. cowboyanon2 Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    nobody has been shot yet.. I think it s all a bluff.. They probably have weapons and flaunt them.. but just like the video cameras and pi's they are only meant to be intimidation and not a real threat..

    the purpose of the pi's is to make you feel scared.. not to investigate u..

    the purpose of videotaping protesters is not to document protesting but to scare you off from protesting...

    and the purpose of showing weapons to scientologists.. is to make them believe they will shoot people attempting to leave..

    I realize they are serious about keeping scilons in.. but they are not gonna shoot them....

    i hate to be racist.. well... i won't go there.. but if the mother of all battles rings a bell...
  9. Oswald2001 Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Actually, there are plenty of legal AR's and AK's in Kalifornia that are not registered as assault rifle and 1,000's being brought in every month...legally.

    The Gun Gestapo that wrote the laws didn't cover all their Nazi bases.

    You want an AR or AK? You can go to the vendors that know...and buy one.

    You just have to know the laws.

  10. Anonymous Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    There is not now, nor has there ever been any exemption that permits "show biz" to possess real automatic weapons in California. The props you see chattering away in movies are blank-firing replicas, with a receiver and barrel incapable of firing real ammunition. There are laws on the books that permit prop companies and studios to use realistic-looking but non-functional PROPS.

    Even if you own a Class III FFL in California, you aren't going to be running around with an automatic weapon at the range or anywhere else. There are requirements for local CLEO sign-offs as well, and best of luck to you if you think you're going to get one of these in CA, NY, VA, DC or several other states. It's like trying to get a concealed carry permit in San Francisco county. It just doesn't happen unless you're a judge or an ex LEO.

    Have you ever noticed that whenever Mythbusters has an episode dealing with automatic weapons, the folks on the range with them are either feds or from the South San Francisco police? That's where these real weapons come from.
  11. Anon-007 Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Perhaps a clue?

    Could it be possible to legally buy and own a specific weapon in a single action or semi-automatic form - but illegal to buy the same weapon as a fully automatic model?

    And would it be that difficult to buy a kit which allows you to convert a semi-auto to full auto?

    And could someone with basic DIY knowledge fit the kit to a semi and make it fully auto?

    You can buy conversion kits very easily, but it is technically illegal to fit them ;)
  12. Anon-007 Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Not true. Not all guns seen on screen are blank firing replicas.

    The movie prop industry uses three types of "guns":

    1. Solid rubber / resin versions (made for distance shots and use in stunts)
    2. Blank firers (usually used as set dressing and when close ups aren't required)
    3. Genuine 'real' weapons (used when firing shots are required, and especially for close up action work)

    There are specialist companies which supply weapons for use in films. Actors are trained in their handling, and all use is closely supervised. Security is tight.

    In the UK, the leading armourers were Bapty & Co who did all the Bond films (they have since closed down)

    And if you still wish to argue the point, take a look here at the IMDB for the movie "Elite Squad": Tropa de Elite (2007) - Trivia

    "During the shooting of the film, a van with 90 firearms (30 real and 60 prop guns) was robbed in the hill of Chapéu Mangueira. Teams from the local police stormed the Favela Pavão-Pavãozinho, in Copacabana, to recover the guns, but the operation was only partially successful."
  13. XenuLovesU Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    edit: I surrender.

    Clearly, there is a huge stash of machine guns at Gold. And explosives. And snipers. And snipers taking pot-shots at protesters. And death rays. And sharks with lasers on their heads.

    Have fun.
  14. Anonymous Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    What do you consider evidence? Only pics?
  15. XenuLovesU Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Last one:

    No. I'd give this whole shtick a lot more attention if there was a single police report published anywhere as evidence that someone cared enough about the horrible nasty weapons and explosives to report them directly to law enforcement. Submitting an affidavit in support of a defendant in an unrelated case falls well short of doing that.

    If I were Prince, Tabayoyon, or anyone else who alleges to have firsthand knowledge of this stuff, I'd go straight to the BATFE, the FBI, the Riverside Sheriff's Department and spill my guts out -- and if they didn't do anything about it I'd be all over the internet and in contact with news agencies showing them my copies of the reports and that law enforcement wasn't doing shit to investigate it.

    Why would you file an affidavit but not also be doing these things? Maybe they did? All I'm asking for is some evidence this took place -- and in the years since the Fishman case there hasn't been a shred of it.

    Maybe I'm just picky, but this cranks my bullshit detector to 11.

    And with that, I'm outta this thread.
  16. Oswald2001 Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Not correct.

    Most of the blank firing weapons were done by Show Biz companies that specialize in providing full-auto and exotic weaponry to the movie industry.

    Many, if not most, of the blank firing guns were full-auto weapons temporarily modified to shoot blanks for safety and liability sakes.

    For example, with AR's and AK's, you can just screw on a special blank firing attachment made to look like a standard flash hider and...Viola!...a blank firing full-auto weapon.

    Take the blank firing attachment off and you have a full-auto weapon capable of firing standard military cartridges.

    The insurance companies of the armament providers and the film companies don't want a bunch of amateurs running around with live ammo in full-auto weapons.

    If a bunch of people got shot up, it would raise their rates to an unacceptable level.

    Even with blank firing guns, people can get hurt or killed.

    Isn't that what happened to Bruce Lee's son? Death by blank gun?
  17. Anonymous Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Brandon Lee indeed died by a blank gun.

    This wasn't an automatic weapon. This was a legal revolver. A previously fired squib load had lodged a bullet in the barrel. When it was loaded with a blank and was discharged, the blank had enough power behind it to kick the lodged bullet out with enough force to kill Lee.

    Apples and oranges. Studios do use a lot of legal, non-auto real weapons loaded with blanks in filming.

    Brandon Lee - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  18. Oswald2001 Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    "P.S. The parts needed to convert a weapon from semi- to full-auto are treated exactly like buying an automatic weapon. You can't purchase a full-auto receiver, selctor or auto-sear unless you hold the same license required to buy a full-auto weapon. There was a period ending in the 70s where you could still pull this off (legal to buy the parts but illegal to install them), but this is no longer the case in the US."

    Again, incorrect.

    You can have the full auto conversion parts shipped to you with no problem.

    They are NOT "treated exactly like buying an automatic weapon".

    You can "pull this off" today. Right now. From the internet among other sources.

    BTW, possessing conversion parts and a semi-auto that could be converted with said parts is a BIG Federal time 'No No'. It's known as constructive possession. (Say, "Hello!" to the Grey Bar Hotel.)

    BATFE will go after an individual in such a case because one lone clueless guy doesn't have the money and lawyers of an Evil Space Alien Cult.

    There is no real upside to full-auto weapons. Even in the case of a complete societal breakdown.

    The average untrained guy...even the average trained waaaaaaay inaccurate on full-auto.

    As it turns out, semi-auto is the best way to go.

    Full-auto has the 'allure of the forbidden', but, is actually inferior to semi-auto in most instances.

    If you are a Navy Seal or the equivalent, obviously this doesn't apply to you.

    For the rest of the population, full-auto sucks.

    So...the Evil $pace Alien Cult would be assuming HUGE legal liability for the possession of inferior illegal full-auto weapons when they could have superior legal semi-auto weapons.
  19. Ogsonofgroo Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    @Oswald2001, before the comment gets too buried, Lron did indeed get autopsied, this is how we know he had Visteral (sp?) in his system, you may consider edititing that one :)

    Then they ate him and gave the bones to their pet sharks :D
  20. Oswald2001 Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    No autopsy. They found out about the psych drung Vistaril by "toxicology study in lieu of an autopsy".

    Read the second to the last sentence on this page:

    I'm pretty sure they did eat him, though. Probably whipped up a big batch of sauce.

    Elron was...after all...Sauce. Was he not?

    And the sharks probably choked on his bones.
  21. Ogsonofgroo Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Kk, bit of a moot point imho, besides, one look at his fat sorry dead ass and it would have been obvious he was one big rotten liver!

  22. anon111265 Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    I didnt even bring her up, im just calling out someone for saying objectivity is "discouraging"

    Something more substantial than stories and peoples word.

    If there are people being taken at gunpoint and held overnight in gold, show me the police report that this surely must have generated, or the ensuing court case. or did this dude just conveiniently stroll off and act like nothing happened.

    Assuming CoS arent being entirely stupid, show me some kind of paperwork for their gun licences etc

    Show me a guard with a gun, or maybe an empty holster on his belt, hell, show me a guard with even a NERF gun for xenus sake.

    Chances are, Gold base may have used guns at some point, but maybe after all these affidavits and accounts of stockpiling, they did away with them to avoid a PR flap.

    Its likely that if they DID have guns in the first place, like the inward facing fences, they were probably just another paranoid anti-escape mindfuck tool and not because they were really worried about anyone getting IN.

    Its possible that if guards back in those days WERE armed, they might have gotten a bit gung ho when people accidentally tresspassed, but again, theres no real evidence that they did, and they certainly dont appear to carry much at all nowadays. (except maybe some freeloader debt)
  23. Anonymous Member

    re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Okay, okay, allow us to do the research for you guys who are spitting dummies. Let's see, Graham Berry aimed a little higher than the sheriff's department:


    a.r.s. Week in Review 02/11/06 -
    Yahoo! Groups

    Still only "words on the internet". I guess we shall just have to ask the BerryMeister himself. PM being sent now.
  24. Anonymous Member

    Re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Thank you for that <3
  25. Anon-007 Member

    Re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post


    Aren't you just sooo impressed by the amount of people (probably just one!) who appear to speak with authority about the (alleged) "lack use of real firearms in movies", and then skulk off into the background when they are conclusively proven to be 100% wrong.

    If only those who hadn't a clue would just keep their furking stupid ideas to themselves ;)
  26. FreakE420 Member

    Re: &quot;Camouflaged&quot; Observation Post

  27. 33755 Member

    Re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    When I was in the Sea Org I had been told the story of how Scientology acted during the 1992 LA riots. Here's a bit from one of Scientology's own websites:

    "Scientology Volunteer Ministers play an active role when natural disaster or civil disturbance strikes their community. During the 1992 Los Angeles riots, 300 Scientologists surrounded an entire city block to prevent looting and destruction of the area. A peaceful yet firm presence, they were not attacked and, in fact, this stand drew a line the rioters did not cross. Neighborhoods beyond that point were left untouched by the mobs. Volunteer Ministers also played a leading role in the massive cleanup effort that followed the riots." Source Church of Scientology - Community Outreach and Assistance Programs

    However, the way I heard the story (just a few years later) is that it was not just a simple peaceful show of solidarity. I was told that there were guns with some of the people surrounding the property and snipers protecting it from the rooftops.

    So where the hell would "Scientology" obtain guns for such an act? There's no place for individual Sea Org members to keep guns in their dormitories (let alone ammunition).

    Just saying...
  28. Herro Member

    Re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Someone told you a story. Finally, some real evidence.
  29. 33755 Member

    Re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Herro, you are really beginning to annoy me - which probably thrills you no end. I can hear you cackling in the background. If you were within arms reach in person, I'd slap you upside the head.

    This story was from one Sea Org member to another (me). I heard it several times while I was at PAC Base, the location of the stand against the LA riots, and I heard it more than once. One could say "it was common knowledge" at the time. Whether it was true or not that guns were present, I cannot personally vouch since I was not there.

    I don't purport the story as related by me to be "evidence" but it does lend some more credence to the idea that the Sea Org has stockpiled weapons somewhere. The average "public Sceintologist" does not have handguns. From where would dozens of handguns appear on short notice - like during a riot? You can't buy guns that quickly.

    The story is another "string to pull" (to use a scio-term) - a tip, a lead, an angle one could further investigate.

    The story IS relevant to this thread, especially since PAC Base is within driving distance of Gold Base. Maybe they sent a car from Gold Base to PAC Base for the defense - or maybe the guns were already at PAC Base.

    It was made quite clear to us at PAC Base that they could adequately defend the property from outside attack. There is no fucking way Scientology would allow another "raid" like the FBI had done on Scientology orgs in the past.

    (TIP: Check internet for references to the "red box" re Scientology.)
  30. Herro Member

    Re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    What you're asking is how did the guns get there that fast unless they were already there?

    What you should be asking is whether or not there is evidence to support those stories.

    We already have plenty of people relating (often contradictory )anecdotes about weapons at gold. What we need is something that takes these stories from the realm of conjecture to something concrete. Instead all we have is people spinning their wheels about what kind of weapons are at gold. I just worry that in their enthusiasm to take down the CoS, some people jump right past that important phase of critical reflection. And when you're making claims such as these, you really can't afford to be wrong.
  31. Anonymous Member

    Re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

  32. Anonymous Member

    Re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

  33. rummychick99 Member

    Re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    You have stories. You have eye witness accounts. You aren't going to get anymore than stories and eye witness accounts until there is a raid. All there will ever be is stories....until then.
  34. 33755 Member

    Re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    I'm not surprised one bit that "law enforcement" doesn't do / hasn't done anything about the stories that have come out of Gold Base - even the stories from firsthand victims.

    "Law enforcement" is more often engaged in their own ideas about what they should fight. When someone tries to point out a crime, LE more often than not does nothing (except a little lip service or perfunctory checking). But they'll follow you around town and wait for you to make some stupid traffic mistake for which they stop you and you get to pay $300+ for some fine on a crime you didn't commit - but do you want to waste a day in court and lose your income for the day? Every day, people make "business decisions" to just pay the fine instead of fighting it.

    THAT is what LE mostly does in the USA. Pick on people to get income for their department while pretending to "protect citizens".

    Meanwhile, there are real crimes being committed - and reported - and LE does practically nothing.

    Corporate Scientology has been engaged in committing RICO style crimes for years. Even some LE people have written about it.

    Here (Emmons report recommending RICO prosecution) Clearwater Police Detective Emmons wrote a report re Recommendations for R.I.C.O. action [Racketeering Influenced Corrupt Organizations] against Scientology in Clearwater Florida.

    I point this out to show that law enforcement K-N-O-W-S what Scientology is doing, and yet they are not doing anything effective to stop criminal activity or bring about justice in the community. Does this mean LE is corrupt? Maybe and maybe not. It might just be that they are taking the easy way out.

    To use a concept widely promoted in Scientology: "Evil is hard to confront". Most people can't really see the evil and crime that is right in front of their eyes. Or they can't/won't "do something" about it.

    I watched a TV show last night showing videos of someone being a victim and other people just standing around watching (or even turning away) and no one doing anything. One video was about a guy who was beat up while waiting to pick up his pizza in a room about 14' x 14' with 6 other guys in the room looking away. One video was about a guy who was hit while crossing the street and no one stepped out to stop continuing traffic and protect the person from further injury while the victim lie dying in the street.

    At least the Anons/critics/OG/exes are TRYING to do something about it.

    Public awareness campaign? Sure, get the media involved sufficiently and maybe, just maybe, law enforcement will be embarassed enough to step up and try to do something.

    I don't know which angle will wake up someone who can effectively do something about the Cult of Scientology. I think the critics are trying all angles to see which one "bites".

    I applaud all activities to try to bring about any effective method of stopping Scientology.
  35. Herro Member

    Re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Which is exactly why sitting here and telling stories about people hearing about guns at gold, or posting 10 year old usenet stories about weapons at gold isn't going to do any good.

    You just got slapped with a traffic ticket recently, didn't you?

    That's a fairly poor comparison.

    That's a problematic way of looking at things. If you applaud all activities, then what limits are there to what you are willing to do? How far are you willing to go? When do the ends no longer justify the means?
  36. 33755 Member

    Re: &quot;Camouflaged&quot; Observation Post


    No, I didn't get a traffic ticket recently. I've had my share in my day and others have told me their stories, too. Also, I've tried to use LE for reporting of crimes, and they have never done anything effective, usually do a perfunctory job, and get no results. I have a zillion stories from friends who have the same experiences. My opinion of law enforcement built up over the years is as stated in my post. That doesn't mean I've recently gotten a traffic ticket. (You think things are so simple and black-and-white, dontcha?)

    My comparison re people doing nothing is to show that there are huge segments of the population who &quot;do nothing&quot; and who are not even interested in making things better for people around them. At least the people on this board are interested and would like to &quot;do something&quot; about it.

    Sure, there are Anons who are NOT &quot;moralfags&quot;, but I'll bet you that most of the Anons who got interested in the Scientology critic movement and who have stuck around have done so out of an outrage that there is a criminal organization around that is allowed to continue committing crimes in our midst and isn't being &quot;handled&quot; by law enforcement.

    I'll bet that if any Anon went over to the Riverside County Sheriff's Dept and started to communicate well with one of the long time deputies and started to ask what the Deputy's opinion is of Scientology and Gold Base, they would be surprised to learn that there is a suspicion in the office about &quot;those people&quot; but that there are crimes that are &quot;known&quot;, but haven't been effectively looked in to. The Sheriff's dept is scared, too.

    If I were in California, I would go there myself and enquire. But I wouldn't bother to post the results of my expedition here where the peanut gallery (Herro included) would pick it apart and tell me that that's not &quot;evidence&quot;.

  37. Herro Member

    Re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Occam's razor. If none of your reports to the police pan out, the simplest and most likely explanation is that there isn't much substance to the claims you're making. Police aren't going to waste their time preforming in depth investigations unless you have something that convinces them that there is merit to your claims.

    Oh and one more thing, that picture you posted is awesome.
  38. Anonymous Member

    Re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    33755's story about the PAC defence during the riots is a lead. It's worth mentioning because some exes who were present might not realise that their first-hand evidence could be useful. So, it's worth raising and asking around, IMO.

    My point is - nobody (including 33755) suggested this was the silver bullet. But let's not discount possible leads before they are fully explored. Good investigators keep an OPEN mind to possibilities until leads and questions have been properly exhausted.

    If anyone has ever read "Six Thinking Hats" by do Bono, you'll identify that what's happening in this thread, and it happens naturally, is "Parallel thinking".

    Six Thinking Hats - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Each of the "hats" has its place, but they can destroy things for each other.
  39. Oswald2001 Member

    Re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    It's not hard to find 'safe houses' or other secret locations to stash weapons and ammo.

    They take up relatively small spaces.

    My 'guess' is that the Evil $pace Alien Cult was a lot more gun gung ho during the reign of Queen Elron.

    A lot of things about the Cult will come to light at some point.

    Until then...we have stories, hearsay and leads.

    Xenu was hearsay outside the Cult at one point.

    Not any more.

    One fine day, the Cult will fall and that which is now hidden will finally see the cold clear light of day.

    No lie can stand forever.
  40. Anonymous Member

    Re: "Camouflaged" Observation Post

    Baseless speculation. Evidence?

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