Flag Down - Injunction Discussion

Discussion in 'Scientology and Anonymous' started by hushpuppy, May 5, 2014.

  1. hushpuppy Member

    Drama is inevitable every time exes, OGs and anons share an initiative. Some is legit, some is trolling, some is intentional sabotage.

    In the past, WWP coverage of similar events, such as the Hamburg conference a few years back, worked better when there were two parallel threads - one for updates and on-topic discussions only, and another one for commentary, trolling, bitching and everything else. As long as they were both in the same sub-forum, that seemed to work somehow. Maybe worth a shot here, to keep the event update thread reader friendly for guests, lurkers and possibly media?

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  2. wolfbane Member

    No, Arnie is not listed on the LMT injunction. He had his own separate injunction type thing, that was only against him. And despite having his own lolsuit drama with the cult for posting stuff on the internet that was unfolding in Virginia Federal court after he got raided by the cops, Arnie fought his injunction in Florida federal court and got it tossed out.
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  3. Jeff Jacobsen Member

    the injunction in no way could "shut the event down."
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  4. No way can the injunction shut down the event.
    No way will the sheriff there shut down the event.
    Its absurd. Let Bunker attend.
    If I can attend, He should be able to attend.
    By the way, I was there.
  5. wolfbane Member

    A photocopy. With pics added. So first off - this also proves amaX had damn good reason to keep WBM at bay. It doesn't matter jack shit if the injunction could be applied, it only matters that the cult would try to use it.

    Secondly, more hilarity!

    And this, was merely day 1.
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  6. The pics don't mean jack.
    This is a conference, not a protest.
  7. Jeff Jacobsen Member

    Arnie was not a part of the LMT.
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  8. Anonymous Member

    Bunker doesn't mind posting here when he needs money, but when we need something from him he does this? Spin it how you like Tom Smith, everyone here understood what was at stake, or at least most people here do.

    What a complete and total dick move on Bunker's part. If he were indeed the critic he claims to be then he would not have disrupted this conference. He did so, knowing full well that not only was he not welcomed, but more importantly, that he could endanger future protests at Flag. Today he has proven to me that stopping the abuses of the cult are not as important as his own interests. He put himself and his interests above all else. Obviously his main concern is not exposing the cult. Had it been he would have willingly allowed the conference to proceed without him. He would have celebrated from a distance knowing that more good could come from him not being present.

    Congrats Bunker, you are now just as bad as what you claim to be against. Thanks douchebag. Go act like the victim somewhere else. We have actual victims to worry about here.
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  9. Nancy Beazley Member

    The seeming compulsion to form camps is puzzling. And detracts from the bigger goal.
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  10. Small crowd,
    Let Bunker attend.
    The more the merrier.
    Sheriff or Scientology couldn't shut this down.
    This could have been held in somebodys back yard.
    This is America, if people want to get together, they can.
    Cmon guys, have some backbone when it comes to scientology.
    I attended, it was a small crowd..
  11. Anonymous Member

    Exactly what I said. Bunker has lost sight of the bigger goal. How can restricting amaX's ability to protest freely serve the bigger goal? It can't.
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  12. Cover page and page 1 of bogus injunction. Photocopy of a certified copy is not a certified copy. Also, no court date for hearing. Think harassment op.

  13. amaX Member

    Hi guise. I'm almost crying from the support here. I wish I'd been able to see this a few hours ago. This past weekend and tonight have been hellish. While everyone else is vacationing and doing radio and tv interviews I've been doing the grunt work for this conference. Please keep in mind when you read this wall of text that I am still sick. There's a flu going around that keeps coming back. While all these things were happening my fever was spiking and then it would break.

    Yes a process server or fake process server did bring me a true copy of the LMT injunction today while I was finishing up some of the decorations for the conference. Decorations that I made with my own money and on my own time. The guy who delivered it did make sure that I noted the page that was highlighted in orange basically stating that I can't be in concert with anyone listed on the injunction. Yeah. I get it. BTW The Norwegian film crew with Geir got a hold of my copy which I took to the venue. They asked for it so I gave it to them. I told them to throw it away when they were done with it because that's what I was going to do with it.

    I took off from my home around 3:30PM with my conference clothes in a publix grocery bag because I had to sweat for two hours setting up the gym with only my husband to help. I didn't get a chance to even wipe my face or put on make-up of anything. I simply put on my conference clothes in the bathroom at the Minnreg.

    I go to sit down at the entrance table and I see Tom Smith outside. I no longer speak to Tom Smith and that is my right. I have not had a conversation with Tom Smith in quite a few months so if he is telling people that he spoke with me about a month ago that is not true. Tom Smith did tell Darth Xander that he would not be attending Flag Down because I was going to be there. Tom Smith did inform Xander that he would be attending the brunch held by TheHoleDoesNotExist on Wednesday morning. So even though I am friends with THDNE I contacted her and told her what was going on and that I would not attend so that Tom could attend an event. She understood even though now people will never see the baton twirling contest that she and I were going to take part in.

    I go outside to ask the police officer to ask Tom Smith to leave and I come face-to-face with Mark Bunker who is surrounded by quite a few people.

    I immediately went to the police officer that I hired and asked him to please ask these two men to leave. None of you will ever know what it feels like to tell someone about this injunction and that the people listed on it can't be in concert with other critics and have the person look at you and say, "Why did he show up then?" It's hard to make people with good common sense understand it.

    The officer was cordial, but did have to finally insist that they both leave because both of them starting bantering loudly back-and-forth about how they were being kicked out. They were just blithering and not moving so the officer told them they needed to leave now.

    Of course the whole thing is being filmed and everyone is not understanding what's going on so I try to explain that I'm protecting myself and everyone else when Joe Childs steps up to introduce himself and shake my hand and then ask for an explanation. This is all happening just minutes before we're supposed to start.

    I knew there would be severe complaints for my making Bunker and Smith leave.

    I hear almost immediately that the internet is blowing up because Bunker has called Ortega and Ortega has posted it on his blog. One person is showing me some of the tamer comments about me. Then Arnie Lerma asks to talk to me about what happened. One thing I will say about Arnie is that he listens. After I explained myself he said that he now understood why I did it, but he wasn't sure if it needed to be done. Then I got a phone call (yes, a PHONE CALL) during the conference from someone wanting to discuss why I'd thrown out Bunker. I told the person I could not talk right now.

    Everyone at the conference knows what happened and about 2/3's are not happy with me.

    I know that Mark Bunker doesn't care for me. I don't care for him either. But I would never do what he did tonight. I had hoped that Mr. Bunker would have been a gentleman and not put me in the position of having to remove him from the premises to protect everyone at the venue from that stupid injunction, but I was wrong. And he did it just minutes before I was supposed to introduce Pete. That's right. I was supposed to greet everyone and then introduce Pete. I was so upset with everything going on that I chose not to do that. I am sure that will make Bunker and all the Bunkerites gleeful knowing that they caused me so much upset that I couldn't even do a 90 second intro to welcome people to a conference that I have worked full-time on for months. A conference that I have spent hundreds of dollars of my own money to make happen.

    I am sick, exhausted, and overworked. I'm also not sure why I'm such a horrible person for protecting myself and other people with being served with an injunction that requires you to hire an attorney to fight.

    Now I'm listening to Amarillo By Morning by George Strait. I'm going to lie down and cry myself to sleep.

    One more thing---I love you guys. Thank you for the support and for posting the words of encouragement from the other sites. <3 why we protest is the best.
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  14. White Tara Global Moderator

    dya know what, fuck u all, this thread is about latest info on Flagdowns schedule , so STFU mkay.
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  15. White Tara Global Moderator

    FWIW, To Amax and Pete, I sure do appreciate your resilience with Flagdown and otherwise, you guys are the awesome, Yay Flagdown!
    Mwahs all.
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  16. Amax, you're doing something huge putting this conference on. It's about the voices, and letting the be heard. You have a great line up of speakers, and it is all coming together.

    You're right-there are many at the Bunker who have no idea how the LMT injunction affects others. I keep reminding people, this is not personal, it's legal. And it's created by the cult. Now, let's stay focused on the mission.

    There are some who vastly underestimate what it's like doing something like this in Clearwater. Ignore them. There are still many who know. And they realize the importance of what's happening.

    Now, you're getting this thing done, and it's happening. In 38 years, this has never been done. Ever. So find a pillow, and maybe some cold medicine (since we all do love that we can take it with no guilt!), and rest up. There is great stuff happening there, and voices speaking up. That's what this is all about.

    Ignore the other shit. If there are still Bunkerites that don't understand, well, I am sorry. They will learn, I hope.

    Go have a terrific week. You made this happen. Despite the damn Mayor, who was "too busy" or a billion other obstacles. The voices deserve to be heard.

    Cheers. I left some cake at the Bunker this morning, but it's probably all gone. :( let that be the worst crap that hits, ok?
    For the to;dr IGNORE tHE SEAGULLS. They just fly around, and crap all over stuff.
  17. "I go to sit down at the entrance table and I see Tom Smith outside. I no longer speak to Tom Smith and that is my right. I have not had a conversation with Tom Smith in quite a few months so if he is telling people that he spoke with me about a month ago that is not true."

    I believe that I told Tony O a couple months. In our last conversation you wanted me to speak at the conference. I brought up Mark Bunker and asked for an explanation of why you did not want him there. You mentioned the injunction which I pointed out did not apply. You said that you did not like him anyway. I protested that and you hung up on me.

    "Tom Smith did tell Darth Xander that he would not be attending Flag Down because I was going to be there."

    I told him that it appeared to me that AMA had disconnected from me and I likely was not welcome there. Xander encouraged me to attend anyway.

    "I go outside to ask the police officer to ask Tom Smith to leave and I come face-to-face with Mark Bunker who is surrounded by quite a few people. I immediately went to the police officer that I hired and asked him to please ask these two men to leave."

    That was a Sheriff's deputy and he initially ordered, not asked, Mark to leave, Then, he ordered, not asked, me to leave, based on your instructions to him.

    "The officer was cordial, but did have to finally insist that they both leave because both of them starting bantering loudly back-and-forth about how they were being kicked out. They were just blithering and not moving so the officer told them they needed to leave now."

    I think we have some video footage of that which Mark will post. I asked you for a reason why you wanted me to leave and you refused to provide any. I addressed you and the deputy directly at that time, not Mark.
    No bantering or blithering occurred.

    I hope that those who participate in Flag Down will come away with a greater understanding of what is going on in scientology. In the 28 years I was involved, I witnessed many abuses where they acted out of their prejudices and emotions, but at no time did they use law enforcement to tell me to go away. AMA, perhaps you should step aside and let Peter take charge of the conference for the remainder.
  18. I think I just found something that might explain this injunction business.

    I wanted to see exactly who belonged to the Lisa McPherson Trust and found this:

    Yes, Arnie Lerma is on the Advisory Committee (the italics and bold were added by me).

    IANAL, but with Arnie listed as as a speaker, it seems that this might have been the angle the cult took for the service of the injunction. That would explain the attempted service on Lerma as well. And then idiot Bunker showing up was an added bonus. Though it is also probably a clue that a picture of Bunker with pedrofcuk was included in his injunction service.

    This opens up a number of WTFs. Lerma knows he is on the LMT Advisory Committee. Did he say anything to the organizers about this?

    If Bunker just coming to the event endangered all attendees, then it seems it's even worse with Lerma have been a featured speaker. Does this now open the door to ALL attendees being served with the LMT injunction?

    And yes, I do understand that the injunction mainly has to do with protesting the cult. But so what does this mean in terms of the Saturday protest or any protesting at all?
  19. <3

    You did what you had to do.
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  20. She did not have to.
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  21. RavenEyes Member

    Neither did you, Tom. I don't go to parties or events where I haven't been invited, and would never go where I was specifically wasn't wanted. Why would you, if not to stir the pot?

    You've been trying to cause problems since the idea for FD was first hatched. Why is that?
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  22. Random guy Member


    View attachment Keep_Calm_And_Carry_On_-_Original_poster_-_Barter_

    Attached Files:

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  23. AnotherSock Member

    Hey amaX,

    Thank you for doing so much to arrange Flagdown 2014.

    Please let the event itself be 'the story' rather than the drama that you are caught up in. I'm trying to be as kind and polite as I can here, when I say that Flagdown 2014 isn't about you: it's about the abuses of Scientology. You've got a fantastic selection of speakers and attendees... so let them speak. We can always chew over 'lessons learned' afterwards... and plan the next event.
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  24. This injunction does not apply to gatherings.
    This is the good ol USA.
    The courts have some power, but they have absolutely no power to determine who can associate with each other if people want to associate with each other.
    Some people want to get together to talk, no court will shut that down.
    By the way, need more people there. I was there but left early.
    Front row right, black cap, blue shirt, dark shorts.
    all publics should be allowed as long as they don't disrupt.
    Let everyone in, cmon, sheesh.
  25. Wbm essentially tried to hijack the event.
    I can't think of any other reason for him turning up to an event he knew he would be turned away from.
    It seems to be more about WBM bieng an attention whore.
    It's a shame because he has shown courage and tenacity in his past dealings with the cult.
    As to the underground bunker, surprised they ran with the drama instead of the main event.
    These faggots need to remember/learn to stay on target.
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  26. Handled wrong by everyone.

    Bunker should have been let in.
    Bunkrer should not have gone crying to his daddy Tony O.
    Tony O should have treated this as a minor disagreement.
    Handled wrong by everyone. Hmm, are we taking lessons fron scientology that handles everything wrong.
    Cmon people, get it together

    Lynn should call Bunker and say she changed her mind.
    Tony O needs to appologise for blowing this thing up.
    Bunker needs to grow up and stop crying if he cant get in.
    Sheesh peolple, Scoentology is watching, get it together.

    If Bunker is let in and listens to the speakers respectfully as I did, its all good.
    If Bunker tries to hijack, then kick him out.

    The guy front row right for 1st 2 speakers. Sorry I did not stay, wanted to catch the end of Pacers Wiz game.
  27. Jeff Jacobsen Member

    You're list makes NO DIFFERENCE regarding the injunction. The injunction has a built in list of people it DOES apply to....
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  28. Random guy Member

    I suppose when holding such a conference in the heart of cult-land drama lama is only to be expected.

    The clams are fairly powerless, all they can do is stir up shit and hope to sour the party.
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  29. amaX Member

    Arnie is not listed on the injunction so Arnie can attend and speak.
    Do you think scientology cares if they can win in a legal battle where they are making you pay a lot of money to fight them? Do you? Do you think scientology gave one damn about spending money to cause Shawn Lonsdale grief by serving him with that injunction and forcing him to hire an attorney and fight it legally even though they knew there was little chance they'd win?

    scientology took the time to send someone to my home yesterday to give me a copy of the injunction and they made sure the man went to the page that says that we can't be in concert with the people listed on the injunction blah blah blah which they had highlighted in orange. They did the same thing with Pete.

    Is there any critic out there that thinks scientology would not use anything at their disposal to disrupt these proceedings even if they're just throwing money away? Is there?

    Christman even did a video stating that she wasn't coming and the reason why was that OSA would use her attendance against people. Christman gets it, but Bunker does not?

    Not everyone can be the superstar who makes videos and stands in the spotlight all the time. Someone has to actually do the manual labor and someone has to put their name to contracts and deal with the not so much fun things. I actually had to carry a mop across the gym to mop up water from in front of the soda machine right in the middle of the conference. Who else was going to do that?
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  30. amaX Member

    Hi. May I ask you if you're aware of scientology tying people up in court with bogus lawsuits to cause them so much grief and costing them so much money that the person has to just give in?

    Have you heard of how Shawn Lonsdale was served with the injunction and had to go to court to address the injunction?

    Would you care if you were served this injunction because I let Mark Bunker attend? Do you know that Mark Bunker is very careful to only be in the areas that he's allowed to be when he goes to downtown Clearwater because Mark Bunker doesn't want scientology to drag him into court for violating the injunction?

    If it's okay for Mark Bunker to protect himself from being brought back into court then why is not okay for all of us to protect ourselves from being taken to court by one of the most litigious organizations in the history of mankind?

    I'd really like to hear your answers please.

    And I will once again tell everyone here who it was that told me to be on constant vigil where this injunction is concerned because scientology would use it against us. Lt. James Steffens of the Clearwater Police Department who was the Clearwater Cell's first liaison officer.

    Lt. Steffens' godfather was former Mayor GABE CAZARES.
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  31. vaLLarrr Member

    All could have been handled better, but stay on target, shit like this validates what the cult tells it's followers.

    Maybe Mark needs to get the injunction ripped up, then as an OG he should be attending this.
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  32. Random guy Member

    Yes, you did warn this might happen. I guess a lot of people don't really get this because the injunction is such a blatant travesty of law. It is only the very peculiar US legal system that allows this abuse of law to persist.

    I can only speculate, but I think Bunker may be trying to force some sort of abuse of the injunction to be able to take it to court. I fully support Bunker in fighting it, but using Flag Down for that purpose would (if I am right and that is what he did) be bad form and a bad move.
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  33. RolandRB Member

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  34. billybob Member

    That's some very kind (to WBM) speculation there.

    My speculation is that WBM is an attention whore who just couldn't stand to be left out.
    WBM could go downtown and fight the injunction himself in many different ways, but he doesn't.
    He doesn't fight it, so he needs to take responsibility for it.
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  35. RavenEyes Member

    Did Mark Bunker manage to sign any tits before getting kicked out last night? Isn't that sort of his signature act? (pun intended)
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  36. Jeff Jacobsen Member

    He did fight it. But it appeared that Co$ was quite willing to fight to keep the injunction, and the cops said they liked it. So unless you want to put up the $$$$$ for the fight, it'll just stay permanent for now.
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  37. Were any tits proffered, Raveneyes? Anyway, whilst being resolutely, nay unshakably, opposed to unsolicited tit-signings, I see no harm in applying one's moniker upon request.
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  38. anonysamvines Member

    And or to raise funds for his lawyers fees

    Damn him for making me lose a lot of respect for him -
    And for making me register at disqus to point out a different side than his, and the we like Mark how dare anyone treat him like that crowd over there
    I haven't been able to even sign in and participate on here for a long time due to ill health. Or do much of anything!
    But Mark's reprehensible and self serving actions in THIS instance pumped me (probably not for long tho)


    AMAX you did the right thing!
    You are trying to stop Mark from doing Slappy's job for him!

    A job that slappy hasn't been able to manage himself via his sea ogres etc
    A job that slappy desperately wants handled!

    I wonder why none of the bunker lawyers haven't felt the need to comment on the injunction, the validity of Mark' assurance that the police chief and his lawyer said they wouldn't ENFORCE the injunction against anyone but him? How come Tony didn't do his usual asking them about the legal technicalities? his usual double checking of legal claims made

    I am disappoint!

    I hope Xander (being a lawyer who is very familiar with the injunction) can chime in and confirm that the police Dept

    A) cannot give such a blanket denial of Co$'s technical legal rights if they insist on the Still in force COURt Order be enforced

    B) that they could give such a Faux assurance - since they know full well they couldn't enforce it on anyone who hasn't yet been officially served. Once people have been served that is a different matter. They WILL enforce it then. If they don't Slappy will have The CW police dept in court faster than Xander can spot a pretty sea org!

    C) that if Mark's lawyer didn't make him aware of these technicalities then Mark needs a new lawyer and fast! And that Mark would have a case against him for professional negligence

    And that if he did make him aware, then Mark is lying about believing it couldn't hurt anyone to associate with him

    d) that if the CW anons get served that is the end of anon protests at Flag until any appeal against it is heard through. And the appeal of the appeals. And the motions to dismiss Anon' lawyers and the judge, etc etc. Just like what is happening in Monique's suit now
    Even if the CW Anons can afford to fight it. And If they win
    Slappy would drag that suit out equally as much as he has done against
    Laura deC, the Hedleys, Monique and every other case we care to name

    And any other of the finer points of the injunction. That I have no knowledge of - like the fact, as I have just discovered reading this thread, that Arnie wasn't named on the LMT injunction, that he had his own singular one - that he at least fought and got thrown out. And Mark knows that!

    Mark isn't that naive!
    Not on how Co$ operate
    And certainly not when it comes to that injunction!
    He knows what happened to Shawn for having a coffee with the LMT injunctees

    Mark is feeling sidelined and unvalued. Especially since Arnie is not only allowed into Flagdown but is also a SPEAKER
    He doesn't care about Flagdown or it's aims.
    He doesn't care what effect his actions could have on Anons or Anyone protesting in CW.
    And sticking one on AMAX was just the cherry on the cake
    As he replied to me at the bunker, in years to come this little storm in a teacup will be forgotten. But the LMT videos and their work will be remembered!

    Nor do I believe his story that he didn't know that AMAX had flat out stated that ANY LMT injunctees turning up would find her getting the police to turf him out. That he has no idea WHY AMAX dislikes him so much.
    I certainly don't believe that in all the chats/bitchfests he and Tom had about it prior to turning up that Tom never mentioned what AMAX had said. And Tom for sure knew

    I also find it strange that Tory (also a LMT injunctive i believe) said she wouldn't attend for fear of exactly this kind of thing, and then jumps in at the bunker horrified that it happened when Mark showed up!

    Fuck them and their petty egos! Enjoy the conference, get that done!

    I hope John Sweeney and Joe Child's are doing their usual standard of investigative journalism on the matter too!
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  39. billybob Member


    That's my point -while all these armchair lawyers over on Tony's blog have been talking about the injunction as a toothless thing, you damn well know the Cult will put up all the resources needed to press that injunction against anyone they can.
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  40. RavenEyes Member

    you win
    I have no idea if any profferage occurred.
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