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Flag - The numbers game

Discussion in 'Scientology and Anonymous' started by TerapinEd, May 17, 2014.

  1. TerapinEd Member

    There seems to be a big dispute about the numbers at flag.
    Last Saturday, I estimated 800 to 1k
    So far, I understand Amax says 200 to 300.
    Darth Xander, no numbers input, kind of weird.
    Fathertony, His post was kind of hands off, no number provided.
    Rickybobby said I over estimated.
    Blown Sea orger 2k
    I didn't realize the interest in the numbers last Sat or I would have paid closer attention.

    So you all want numbers, I got numbers, what the hell they mean, I have no idea.
    I went back and did a count and also spoke to Sara Heller and she kindly gave me a number.
    Here goes, 5/17/14 Flag , bus drop off time and number dropped off
    Accurate bus drop off times, accurate numbers from this morning.
    836am 35 all uniform
    837am 26 all uniform
    844am 26 all uniform
    903am 52, most uniform
    905am 8 all uniform
    912am 39 mostly uniform
    1008 am 29 1/2 uniform
    1014am 2 uniform
    1034am 34 most uniform
    1036am 34 1/2 uniform
    1037am 28 uniform
    1039am 14 uniform
    1040am 17 uniform
    1041am 50 1/2 uniform
    1051am 21 1/2 unifoirm
    1055am 20 uniform
    1104am 21 uniform
    1105am 45 uniform
    1106am 21 no uniforms
    1107am 19 uniforms
    1110am 27 uniforms
    1122am 31 uniforms
    1124am 20 uniforms
    1130M 28 uniforms
    1132am 20 uniforms
    1133am 11 1/2 uniforms
    1135am 40 uniforms
    1137am 16 uniforms
    1149am 47 uniforms
    1154 am 9 uniforms
    1156am 49 uniforms.

    That's it for raw accurate data

    Whew, need a break, will come back and post a report and my conversation with Sara Heller
    • Like Like x 11
  2. Are you living with autism? No offense intended.
    rovift spiritual
    This message by rovift spiritual has been hidden due to negative ratings. (Show message)
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  3. TerapinEd Member

    Wow, man, this a tough place. ease up on me dude.

    Anyway, back from lunch. Cut to the chase. Sara Heller said 2200 to 2300.
    hmm.
    Why not.
    No friendly demeanor but at least she talked to me.
    At first, she wouldn't give me a number. "You're not gonna believe me anyway so why should I tell you"
    I told her I was simply curious.
    She said 2200 to 2300.

    anyway. boy this can be a rough board. I've been in the movement a long time but stayed away from this board over the years. Flagdown got me psyched up and well, decided to participate here.
    I read stories about Tory Magoo when this board started and heard she had some problems.
    Maybe its the internet, maybe its, hmm don't know. It can be rough here.
    • Like Like x 10
  4. Nancy Beazley Member

    TerrapinEd, you are a scientist!

    Respect!
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Nancy Beazley Member

    P.S. You counted 839 staff.
  6. Twinkle Member

    TerrapinEd don't be put off by comments like that or the people who make them either. You did well putting those numbers together and we all benefit from it.
    • Like Like x 4
  7. incog712 Member

    Just avoid the dome and you'll most likely be fine. Unfortunately Tory chose to ignore that same advice and things didn't end well. They never do. They're not supposed to. Still, she does pop by now and again, bless her heart.

    It isn't as though your meat body counts aren't interesting, appreciated, or even useful. This is after all, largely a game of attrition and fresh info, such as it is can be always be helpful. It's just that head counts are always going to be inaccurate beyond illustrating, to some extent, a general trend. A trend which is itself, plainly obvious.

    The numbers which Amax is being quoted as offering up are actually a relatively accurate count as of the time that they were made, well before the decision to open superpowers by the (well publicized within scientology) draining of both public and staff from the outer orgs to "make things go right" at least in appearance. Around that same time, Peetey was whining about the fact that there were only around 1000 publics active in the entire Tampa Bay area (One area which was supposed to have been "cleared" in it's entirety long before now.) A few hundred staff were more than plenty to handle that while still banging out some furniture and keeping the windows washed.

    Sara's claiming 2000+. By scientology mathematical standards, that would seem to be a rather gross understatement, but what else could she do considering that anyone actually looking would know better. So she thought better of fudging the numbers by too much. Good for her, although Davey will not be pleased.

    So yes, around 1000 or so staff/sea org in place at this time, the majority held in place mainly to keep up appearances seems about right. This is after all, the mighty Flag Land Base. Home of the alleged 20,000 sea org that scientology boasted about having in position only a few years back.
    • Like Like x 8
  8. rickybobby Member

    One of the first time protestors at the Mega Raid said "Wow. They all look like bellhops!"
    • Like Like x 7
  9. You mean counting Scientologists is like counting toothpicks, or cards?
  10. incog712 Member


    Lol, If Miscavige would sober up for a week or so, he just might see a future in swapping his cult out for a hospitality industry trade school.

    I do sort of miss the old space comet costumes that they used to wear around town.
    • Like Like x 3
  11. Twinkle Member



    It's like asking how long is a piece of string, and more accurately which particular piece because each piece get moved around to accommodate certain parcels or orgs at times.
    • Like Like x 3
  12. Twinkle Member




    Miscavige and hospitality are not two words that are normally mentioned in the same sentence.
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Soyr that the autsim coment was tken the wrong way. I confudesd you weth that Benjy poster. lullz. olo!
  14. Quentinanon Member

    I think it reinforces the narcissism of the rich dupes who stay at Flag to get serviced.

    hotel-game-bell-hop.jpg
    • Like Like x 4
  15. Can't wait for the Sarah Heller convo post!!!!
  16. TerapinEd Member

    1st off, thanks for all the support from the above posts.
    Just checked the clambake board, my old protest report is still there, 10 years old. wow. Time flies.
    http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=658
    move down, I've always been terapined. Anybody know Tigger or freeway, be nice to reconnect with the old cell
    My account so old, cant sign in, ask for forgotten password, my account does not exist, go in as new sign up, my account exists. weird.

    Anyway
    The Report
    Got up pretty early this morning, nothing planned. Just started Dan Brown's Inferno.
    I figure why not make the short 20min drive to flag, count and read.
    I circle flag, empty public parking on all the streets. I get the spot across the street from Flag with a clear unobstructed view of the bus drop off area.
    (I have a feeling, this parking spot may not be available for a while, I'm sure they parked a car there after I left and make a point of keeping that space occupied.)
    Today, I'm simply observing, no interactions with scientologists walking by except a smile, a "yo" or a tip of the hat.
    I'm in there sandbox all alone so I didn't want to antagonize them.
    I'm pretty sure they already have a file on me due to the protest 10 years ago I participated in.
    Believe me, I am concerned they know who I am, but I think ok because so much going on these days with the lawsuits and the Underground bunker, I'm hopefully small potatoes.
    I didn't even take pictures or video, simply using eyeballs and my binoculars.
    I just wanted this to be a totally chill operation, just observe.
    Of course I was immediately. Quite a few clam security looking at me and on their radios.
    30 min and all of a sudden a police officer appears beside me.
    He asks what am I doing and asks for ID.
    I give the ID and was totally honest with the officer, I'm simply doing a count.
    Officer was like huh? a count? probably thinking WTF.
    So I explain that's all it is, a count, nothing more, nothing less, a simple count.
    I get out of my car, and 2 police cars behind me. wow, 2 cars for me. I tell the officers I'm nothing, just a guy sitting in a car counting. No protesting, Just spending the day on a nice read , Dan Browns Inferno, and counting. (book starts out slow, tour guide of Florence Italy instead of a thriller but now its getting good, enjoying the read between busses.)
    One car takes off, the other police car remained for about an hour behind me.
    Went back to counting and reading.
    Someone above added my count and it was something like 830. well I saw a lot more, many would trickle in by foot or car. I estimate I saw 100 to 150 trickle in.
    After a while, the other police car leaves.
    I continue the count and continue to read.
    I look up and I see the officer across the street with Sara looking right at me while both are talking.
    I decided to walk over to talk.
    Wasn't getting good vibes from them so just tried to be real friendly.
    I'm totally honest with Sara. I tell her I'm not here to protest, not here to impede them. Just watching. Just counting.
    She tells me I'll never get an accurate count because a lot are off on Saturday.
    I tell her the count is simply to evaluate how busy the place is, that's all.
    Then I ask her how many, that's when she says I wont believe her anyway so why should she tell me.
    Well she gives me the 2200 to 2300 figure. The officer asks when I am leaving, I shrug my shoulders. He seems really pissed at me. Really bad vibes from this guy. I tell the officer I've been honest and law abiding all morning. I'm totally honest and upfront. I tell the officer I understand concern, especially in this era with the Boston Marathon incident, that's why I have been open and honest. Officer is still pissed. this guy concerns me. I don't think the Clearwater police dept is in scientologys pocket, but this officer might be.
    Anyway, was extremely polite with Sara and treated her with respect(Everybody deserves respect, even republicans lol)
    Went back to my car, counted some more, read some more then took off.

    Peace
    terapined
    Old Deadhead, over 100 shows observed :)
    • Like Like x 8
  17. DeathHamster Member

    He thinks hospitality means putting someone in the hospital.

    "This week, our hospitality stats were up 146%!"
    • Like Like x 5
  18. moarxenu Member

    Is OCMB still a thing?
    • Like Like x 3
  19. Kilia Member

    TerrapinEd, many of the trolls here are new and just do what they do because it's allowed.
    As an WWP oldie and oldie in age as well, I recommend that you just ignore the bastards.
    • Like Like x 6
  20. So Ed get 2 police cars called on him because he is looking at the Flag building with binoculars. And the officer isn't friendly or accommodating even after being reassured he's counting bus riders and nothing more.

    That is as good an example as any of why residents don't want to go downtown.
  21. incog712 Member

    Yes there's that. Also it's just plain creepy. Chernobyl creepy.

    Prior to the present occupation, it was actually surprisingly lively, especially on the weekends. It will be again. Maybe not quite tomorrow, but relatively soon.

    It's strange. Back in the day, people in Clearwater used to joke about St. Petersburg being the "city of the walking dead". "Honk your horn and see how many people fall over." Stuff like that, just silly, ageist, black humor. Nothing more. St. Pete sure has come a long way since then.

    Now Clearwater's getting all the laughs. Pod people and all that. There'll be some catching up to do, but it will get there. Eventually. After it get's it's tax base back.
    • Like Like x 2
  22. Thanks for your report, TerapinEd. Your reports are very enlightening because they are first hand observations, not a lot of speculation. The actual numbers are especially appreciated.

    One couple of questions on this. First, was there a reason why you stopped counting and left before noon (like did Sara and the police make you leave or something)? Because from Xander vids of Sea Org Alley and the reports, pics and vids of the Flag Down megaraid (which was also on a Saturday), the biggest movement of sea orgers is during meal times. So it seems the most of them would have been unloading from noon on.

    Secondly, what did it look like the sea orgers were doing, the 800+ ones who were tricking in while you were there? Because that doesn't totally make sense since they WEREN'T coming in during meal times.
  23. TerapinEd Member

    I actually didn't intend on staying that long. When I got there, I figured maybe an hour or 2. Having the police called on me, and 2 cop cars at that, kind of pissed me off and steeled my resolve to do a good count. I'm not even taking pictures or video, just watching. I mean cmon, these people wont even tolerate being looked at. I was being watched very closely till the last 30 min. No Sara, no police. Kind of a small mental victory, I outlasted them, wasn't intimated to leave. I was simply hungry, time to take off and get something to eat.
    I don't have the foggiest idea what goes on in that building. Maybe they are eating, The times look pretty regular but there is a gap, 912 am to 1008 am. That's almost an hour. During that hour, I was thinking WTF, breakfast over? Dropping them off on the other side because I'm watching?
    To me, it looks like everybody is arriving to go to work, that's the overall impression I get. The bus thing, I noticed very few departures, maybe that's an afternoon thing.
    • Like Like x 7
  24. Great job. Takes some balls.

    That's weird about the almost hour gap after 9:12am. No idea what that's about. But the Flag Building is the scilon cathedral or mecca. So that would mean the main place for their auditing and courses, including their Super Power drivel. It could be that these sea orgers are coming in to do their shifts to be on watch for these things, or else are coming in to do it themselves. I'm not sure either.

    Whatever it going on though, it's important enough for them to have the police stay with you for several hours.

    The last week when you were there for Flag Down, what times were you there? It was supposed to start at 11am. Maybe you can "glue" the numbers of what you saw until noon yesterday together with with what you saw after noon last week?
  25. TerapinEd Member

    Balls? Darth Xander has balls, big ones. I simply observed, very passive.

    They have to be eating there, most arrive empty handed which is kind of weird.
    Most people spending a whole day at work usually have a bag with a variety of items.
    I'm a backpack person, have a lunch in there with various other stuff I take to work everyday.
    Where I work, most arrive with a bag containing lunch or laptop or both.

    No need to put together yesterdays numbers with last weeks general observation.
    We now have a pretty good overall picture of how busy the place is.
    • Like Like x 3
  26. Yes, I don't know too many that would do what Xander does. But dude, balls, you have them too, even if what you did was different from what Xander does.

    I think we have to keep in mind that the sea orgers are different from scilon public and regular org staff. They live and work communally with low pay. So they probably wouldn't bring stuff with them like the usual person. I don't know for sure, but I think that could be an explanation for them arriving empty handed.

    But agreed, there's a pretty good overall picture now. Including what the protestors last week said, it sounds busy there.

    Thanks for your contribution.
  27. We got to the bus spot around 11:50 a.m.
  28. Parrishgolfer Member

    Or making ashtrays move???
    • Like Like x 2
  29. TerapinEd Member

    Hmm, interesting, I just got outted.
    No big deal, I'm not anonymous and don't protest with a mask.
    I was warned not to sign up but did so anyway. Interesting.
    The police did write down my id, probably gave my name to Sara Heller.
    Oh well, no biggie, I was never anonymous.

    Peace
    Ed
    • Like Like x 4
  30. TerapinEd Member

    Good admins here, I reported the post and its was taken down quickly :)
    In the end, its really much ado about nothing.
    Peace
    Ed
    • Like Like x 5
  31. Quentinanon Member

    I did as well. OSAbots are desperately trying to get their stats up. Must have had a downstat week.
    • Like Like x 2
  32. Seriously? Your only response is more OSAOSAOSA? Uh, if you haven't noticed, there are more than a few here who are onto you and who are definitely not OSA.

    You WERE trained in OSA black ops, right? Does that have anything to do with you - along with all the other CW anons - continually misrepresenting Flag's numbers despite being there at least since the beginning of Chanology in 2008? TerapinEd noted it himself about the CW cell in his OP, it makes no sense.
    timor
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  33. Quentinanon Member

    I am not a CW anon and I have not been trained in OSA black ops. MKay?
    Perhaps you could instruct us on that topic here.
    • Like Like x 2
  34. incog712 Member

    So far, the SDG socks have only managed to "out" those that already chose to "out" themselves previously at some point for one reason or another. And yes, if you ID yourself to the police, it then becomes public information and anyone that may have an interest can simply make a request for the incident report and obtain a copy. A stat point for Sara, woot!!!
    • Like Like x 2
  35. RolandRB Member

    The higher the number the better. That's more rice and beans the cult has to pay for.
    • Like Like x 2
  36. tinfoilhatter Member


    This has the potential to be quite damaging to the cult. Has anyone bothered to do a documentary on the place? if you demonstrate that the town has lost a lot of business, then this might cause the local government to be more demanding of the cult.

    Furthermore, remember that municipalities, and counties, are subservient to the state government. A loss of revenue for there, is a loss of revenue for the state.
    • Like Like x 2
  37. Twinkle Member




    This!

    :)
    • Like Like x 1
  38. AnonoLily Member


    Welcome to the friendliest place on earth!
    • Like Like x 2
  39. Nancy Beazley Member

    Published today on Rinder's blog (it's Rinder talking below):

    "The big push at Flag is now on Purif and “Survival Rundown” completions. 4 times as many of them as Clears. Double the number of Super Power completions. The volume is pitiful for a $150 million dollar building and 1500 claimed SO staff…"

    At http://www.mikerindersblog.org/more-bust-exposed-plus-bonus/
    • Like Like x 2
  40. Random guy Member

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