Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by YtheSoHIGHprice, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. Ok, so I've been digging around and I haven't found anything about the price of fuel in the US... there has got to be something that can be done about this. Other than food, the cost of gas is one of the biggest things that keeps me BROKE. I know I can't be the only one... I'll leave the rest open for discussion...
  2. Anonymous Member

    Canadians pay more than Americans for gas.
  3. Anonymous Member

    Most of the world does.
  4. Anonymous Member

    Buy a bicycle.

  5. Anonymous Member


  6. anon walker Moderator

    My motorcycle gets around 60 mpg. I used to be able to fill the tank for $4. Then $8. Now...I dunno. I don't fill it these days.
  7. Perhaps agitating for better public transit would be in order. I go everywhere I need to for around $45 a month. Last town I lived in before this, passes were $25 a month.
  8. failboat Member

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  9. Paroxetine Samurai Moderator

    I get awesome gas mileage...

    I walk everywhere.
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  10. All of that is fine and dandy, but i live around 20 miles from public transit, and one hell of a bike ride. There are what? Millions of unemployed who can't even look for jobs because $3 wont buy a gallon of gas. There has to be something we can do for everyone to benefit from a hardcore drop in gas prices. I have a relative who works in a refinery and they say it only cost around 10 cents a gallon to make the stuff. And diesel is some of the garbage that's left over and it cost more! Am i the only person tired of this gouging?
  11. Anonymous Member

    Ok, first of all, what sort of refinery does your relative work at? What is its barrel per day intake?

    Secondly, even if it only costs 10 cents a gallon to make the stuff, you're forgetting about all the other costs involved. It's not like they're making these products from seawater. WTI crude is at $89.91 per barrel and Brent at $105.94 - so the even though the ExxonMobils and the Chevrons have rigs and fields of their own, most of your crude oil still comes from Saudi Arabia. So that's a good chunk of your cash going to the Arabs straight away. No choice in the matter my friend.

    Then there are some things to consider about crude oil refineries. A lot of these places (depending on size/location/owner etc...) will be refining crude oil to create not just Diesel or Gasoline but Naphtha (used heavily for making plastics), Jet fuel (for flying planes), Kerosene (for camping stoves and shit), Bitumen (roads I think) and heavier grades of fuel oil (used to run oil tankers/cruise ships and what not). So it's wrong to say that Diesel is some of the garbage that's left over. It's still cost just as much to begin with as all the other products.

    You also need to take into account the cost of transporting the oil to refinery in the first place. Depending on where you're sourcing it from and what quantity, it will cost you at least half a million dollars to move 2 million barrels of oil from the Arabian Gulf to the great US of A. In 2 or 3 years time when world shipping markets are expected to recover, it wouldn't be a stretch to say the cost of getting the oil from anywhere could double or even triple. As with oil prices, the global recession, and many other things, it has happened before and it will happen again.

    Once this stuff is refined, it isn't immediately taken to your local gas station. Gasoline has to have stuff added to it to stop engines knocking (what they used to use was lead, before they released they'd made a mistake and it was poisonous). This will either be MTBE ($1415 per ton*) or ETBE ($1325 per ton). MTBE is generally used more and at $1415 per ton, it's more expensive than a barrel of oil! (7.33 barrels as average crude oil density for barrels/metric ton 1415/7.33 = $193 for a barrel of MTBE, double of one of the above crude oil prices.)

    They also add tonnes of additives into all sorts of other products too, Jet fuel to stop it freezing at 36,000 feet for example. Diesel itself will have different specs, ie: sulphur content depending largely where you sourced it from, if it's low sulpher diesel oil that will have cost you more from low sulphur crude. And people don't won't high diesel final products.

    This shit isn't like milk coming out of a cow, it's costly and expensive, sure the oil companies could lower the price, but why would they? Sorry mate, times are hard but the corporate machine rolls on. Don't think though that it's all just fatcats sitting around in mansions, smiling about how they're fucking over the little guy - they're just cogs in it all too (granted some exceptions). But these are big companies, and recent times have shown even ones with sound infrastructure and prices where they are, haven't been able to service.

    So basically, it all adds up. Sorry that you're struggling and that gas prices are your biggest problem but I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish here. As said NYPA and I don't think we're the droids you're looking for.

    However please check out our anti Scientology parts of the website and see if you can help there.



    *Please note the above quoted prices may not be accurate at time of your own personal reading.
    *Do not directly handle MTBE or ETBE, as this may result in cancer.
    *Whilst care has been taken in the production of this information, no liability can be accepted for any loss incurred in any way whatsoever by any person who may seek to rely on the information contained herein.
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  12. Anonymous Member

    *And people don't won't want high sulphur diesel as a final product.
    *haven't been able to survive.
  13. Paroxetine Samurai Moderator

    What do you want Anon to do about it? If you want some retarded illegal shit like hacking/DDoS... Well, I hope the door kicks you harder in the ass than we do on the way out. If you are looking for Anons here to protest: Please lay out your plans for consideration. A boycott? Good fucking luck. Won't do shit especially with all that Olympics faggotry and holiday vacations. Not to mention how that can further wreck havoc on the economy.

    Bottom line: WWP is NOT your PA. WWP does NOT do illegal shit and if that is what you want, fuck out of here. There isn't much that can be done since most of the price deals with Supply/Demand. I'd go into detail about your relative, but the Anon above said more and better than I could.
  14. Anonymous Member

    **And people don't want high sulphur diesel as a final product.
    *before they released they'd made a mistake

    Apologises for the poor spelling.
  15. Anonymous Member

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  16. Anonymous Member

  17. I think it is more worthy of the Garbage Pile!
  18. Anonymous Member

    I thought my input was at least better than OPs. :p
  19. Paroxetine Samurai Moderator

    Wait and see if the OP is wanting retarded hacking shit...

    Nah, fuck it. Dome this shit or shit pile it.
  20. Okay, but currently, the only Mods attending to the OWS Forums are Global Mods. So sending a report asking for dome or garbage is the way to go.
  21. Anonymous Member

  22. Paroxetine Samurai Moderator

    Funny bit is that the OP isn't clear as to what they want WWP to do. I can only speculate whether they want illegal hacking retarded shit or just a plain ol' "I can haz personal army nao?".

    The shit is not good enough for the Dome because the OP has seemingly buggered off....
  23. This being the reason for my suggestion of The Garbage Pile. The forums are busy and don't need crap like this shitting them up.
  24. Paroxetine Samurai Moderator

    Yeah... People are having way too much fun with that poemander downstairs to deal with this kind of crap.
  25. Really? I'm not promoting any kind of illegal activity whatsoever...BOYCOTT maybe! I honestly don't think people in America have the balls to do something like that! If I were smart enough to come up with the plans to do it I doubt anyone would back me based on the feedback seen here. I read where people in Europe were protesting at the gas stations. I know it wasn't because of prices but hell, why shouldn't it be? Maybe this thread isn't worth shit-canning because it makes a good point; rich getting richer, poor getting poorer.

    I don't appreciate you rudeness either!
  26. i don't understand. sorry im not as smart as most of you. just using my right to speak brothers
  27. Pique Member

    It means Not Your Personal Army. And btw, someone knowing internet shorthand that you do not does not make them smarter. :)

    I agree OP, fuel costs are a big problem, for both individuals and businesses. But the issue is extremely complex and I fully expect we will only see prices rise in the future as new sources being developed are all more costly to recover.

    And yes, you have a voice here, as do all users. I suggest growing a thicker skin as politeness isn't necessarily at the top of the list of goals around here.
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  28. Anonymous Member

    It's all Obama's fault, durrr.
  29. Anonymous Member

  30. Paroxetine Samurai Moderator


    Ahhh... I just love the smell of RAEG in the morning! Smells like coffee... Oh, wait...

    I asked you what did you want Anon to do with it. After 2 days you still haven't said what you want this branch of Anon to do. Please provide info and plans in order for further review.

    +1 though for dismissing the notion of wanting this branch of Anon to do illegal shit.
  31. adhocrat Member

    I paid 35¢ a gallon, or about 0.27 ounces of silver in 1970 for a gallon of gas. We now pay about $4, which is 0.14 ounces of silver
    Inflation is strictly a fiat currency problem. When prices are quoted in money, not currency, the truth becomes apparent.
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  32. Paroxetine Samurai Moderator

    Glad to see you are alive and well...

    I don't (can't) drive but around here it is $3.35 a gallon. Also: Wasn't it gold, not silver, that was the original backing of US currency?

    What was said earlier applies here: It is a combination of Supply and Demand, Production Costs, and Speculators that drives up or down the cost of gas.
  33. adhocrat Member

    dollar = silver
    eagle = gold
    we had both, but silver was always the basis for the dollar.

    Much of the price of gas is political
    But if we look at commodities in terms of money (gold or silver) then we see that prices actually come down over time, which is the exact opposite of what the mainstream economists tell us. Which is a good reason to think the mainstream economists are spinning the truth faster than a gyroscope.

    I could have done the analysis with gold, but gold didn't circulate in my lifetime, silver did. The results would have been similar, use $35 for an ounce of gold versus its current price of about $1600. A hundredth of ounce of gold would have bought that gallon of gas in 1967. Now a hundredth ounce would buy 4 gallons of gas. So that works even better, showing what fiat currency gets you, ie, falling purchasing power over the lifetime of the fiat paper.

    To say speculators are responsible for the fluctuations is to be ignorant of their function, which is to actually smooth out the fluctuations in prices. Speculators fulfill a vital role, so having the media bashing them is telling. Can we say false flag? Misdirection? Ignorance? Willful stupidity? Catering to power? All of the Above? Whatever the reason, the press gives us the government line, nothing more. IOW, all we get is the PR and spin.

    When the media and government bash vital players in the economy, you know those doing the bashing are lying to you. You should be asking why they are lying to us. What does it get them to give us the company line and never look at it from another perspective?
  34. Paroxetine Samurai Moderator

    Wasn't sure about the dollar = gold issue (Fort Knox, etc.)

    Speculators are part, but not at all the entire reason, for the hike in oil (not gas) prices. Keep this in mind: Oil is a finite resource. It is not available everywhere and various means to get it (oil sands, pipelines, fracking, etc.) add to the cost per barrel. Add to it the demand for it exceeding supply and you can see that there is more than just politics involved.

    Now when gas prices went through the roof during Curious George Dubbya's Bush's reign, my thoughts were "Figures".

    Why? Both him and daddy Bush along with Cheney were oil men. Oil men behind the desk of the most powerful role in America. So no shit they were going to use that position to make extra money.

    So, No you are not wrong. However, there is more at play in this game than just politics.
  35. adhocrat Member

    Please stop asserting that speculators cause price fluctuations, That is economic nonsense. Speculators play a vital role in the economy, accepting risks others are unwilling to take. When politicians bash them, it is the same mindset as some scientologist bashing a psychologist.

    Speculators do not cause price fluctuations Even mainstream economists don't say they do. In fact, the only people who assert that are the politicians, who need someone to bash.
    The reason prices went up during the Bush regime has a lot to do with the political uncertainty following 9-11. We were at war with oil producers. Of course the price of oil will go up.

    The cost of getting the oil out of the ground, refined and to the gas pumps makes up much of the price of oil. What I said is that the huge fluctuations reflect political reality and not economics.The prices wouldn't be bouncing around without the political uncertainty. The price of gasoline in my youth stayed within a few cents through the 1960s up until 1973. That's when politics reared its ugly head in the oil industry and the price of oil suddenly reflected the vagaries of politics plus the vagaries of the markets.But markets are basically rational and can be predicted, while politics is basically irrational and is more of a random walk, hence impossible to predict.
  36. Anonymous Member
    Finally, President Richard Nixon announced[7] that the United States would no longer redeem currency for gold or any other precious metal, forming the final step in abandoning the gold and silver standards.
  37. Paroxetine Samurai Moderator

    Let me rephrase it: The Market and the fact investors are in fact investing in oil can explain some of it.

    Again: It is just a part, not the whole, of the reason. How much it plays a part is up for discussion. You can't deny that people do invest in oil futures and people do make money off of how well oil does. IOW: Oil is like Gold/Silver in a ways. Granted my mentioning Speculators is perhaps erroneous.
  38. adhocrat Member

    Certainly gold and silver are like oil. They are all commodities with all that implies. And all three act as money.

    I don't deny that people make money in the options and futures market. IIRC the reason the options market came into existence was to help the farmer overcome the vagaries of weather and crops.

    The speculator takes on risks that others do not want to have. The farmer, if he knows it'll cost $2 a bushel to grow his wheat might ensure a small profit by selling futures for $2.5 per bushel. That means he can trade possible windfall profits, or devastating losses, for smaller profits and more security. In the meantime, the speculator is thinking "Well, if I buy at $2.5, and the wheat crop isn't too good elsewhere, then I'll get $3 or $4 per bushel and make a fortune. Or I'll be wrong it'll be at $2 and I'll lose my shirt."

    That is what speculators do, take on risks others don't want.
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  39. Paroxetine Samurai Moderator

    That is true. Still, I have to wonder, if erroneously, if a lot of what is causing the spikes in prices has to do with Supply/Demand.

    Also: What astonishes me is that nobody has sat down and tried to find alternative fuels that are both cheap to make and won't put a shitton of crap in the air. I know that one argument is "Well the oil producers and governments...". However, the problem with that logic is that some countries (Russia, China, Japan, etc.) couldn't give a fuck less about OPEC and could theoretically make an alt fuel.

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