Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response ^OMG! Do we have that TD face on file? Cock goes where???
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response 13Heathens = Fucking cunt. Also tl;dw since it had so much of his interjecting and unfunny/witless commentary. That provides a great example of what NOT to do and why we should avoid Anonymous commentary in our response and stick to using their own audio against them. And if there's any lurking anons who know the LRH audio really well, plox to be giving suggestions on what we should be using.
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response THIS^^^ Just list out the specific Scientology publicity lies from Tommy/Tom/Lisa one by one. Then we can match dox and audio to them. Make it easy on the lurking audioanons eh?
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response I'd rather listen to 13 than lafayette ron hubbard. You fuckin' sponge up that garbage and tell me about it, asswipe.
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response The fuck are you on about? I mean, I know she's a cunt. But I don't recall her posting ITT lately.
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response ^^This. Keep it simple. A written list of quotes. Each one accompanied by absolute contradictory quotes from scientology literature. Possibly include the information that scientologists have to 'duplicate source' (ie follow Hubbard's words to the letter 100%) -it's not a choice.
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response I think we can smash the claim that Scientology does not interfere with physical illness and medical care for physical problems (claims made by Tommy Davis and Tom Cruise): EDIT: This list of illnesses/dox already posted ITT http://forums.whyweprotest.net/686609-post57/ BUT THERE'S MORE!
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response Hard to imagine, but it's possible that just making widely available long lists of crazy hubbard claims of miracles over illnesses could attract certain uninformed people to go and try scientology. The information put out needs to be very specific. Quotes need to be in context (ie take the statements publicly made on record by the various scilons and put the quotes that say the exact opposite next to them).
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response Quotes need to be accompanied by LRH audio clips. That is all.
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response From Dianetics, as much as I could bear to read: Homosexuality is an illness - “The sexual pervert ([including] homosexuality, lesbianism[...]) is actually quite ill physically” - page 125 Dianetics' ability to cure “Psychosomatic illnesses” - “The problem of psychosomatic illness is entirely embraced by Dianetcs and, by Dianetics technique, such illness has been eradicated entirely in every case” - page 111 “2.[Dianetics] contains a therapeutic technique with which can be treated all inorganic mental ills and all organic psychosomatic ills, with assurance of complete cure in unselected cases" - Page 10 "6. The single source of mental derangement is discovered and demonstrated on a clinical or laboratory basis by Dianetics." - Page 11 "12. Various educational, sociological, political, military and other human studies are enhanced by Dianetics." - Page 11 "13. The field of cytology is aided by Dianetics, as well as other fields of research." “These tests confirm the Clear to be entirely without such ills or aberrations. Additional tests of his intelligence indiciate it to be high above the norm." - Page 13 "[A "Psychosomatic ill" individual] can be given Dianetics therapy to the end of clearing these neuroses and ills. Finally, he can be examined with the above results. This, in passign, is an experiment which has been performed many times with invariable results. It is a matter of laboratory test that all individuals who have organically complete nervous systems respon in this fashion to Dianetic clearing." - page 13/14
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response ...preferably from the oldest non-"clear-sound" modded (the Scilon audio equivalent to photoshopping and airbrushing) source that you can find. The public deserves to hear that old, fat, wheezing, gasping, non-filterd-Kools-smoking *cough* bastard ah... tell the uh... world that all that shit (that he just ah... made up) will uh... cure all ah... their ills ah... in all *caugh* his *coughcough* unhealthy ah... glory. (Protip: If Dianetics was the secret to imortality, why the hell is he dead?)
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response Excellent idea guys, my knowledge of audio tapes would be a hinderance rather than a help I'm afraid though!! My 2p? Make sure the first 30seconds is a clip highlighting how LRH's words are to be followed to the letter/gospel/irrefutable, otherwise you give them the get out of "that's in the past, now we follow his methods just not word for word as he was around in the 1950's and society was different, blah blah" Then hit the world with the really batshit insane stuff! Sew that fucker into a corner so tight, the RPF will be too good for ol' TommyD, they'll have to invent new more inventive punishments for his megaton footbullets! Or the cult folds, whichever works of me...
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response I agree that was an epic first post by SomeRandGuy, I've copypasta'd some of it if you don't mind. from stuff that's been posted in this thread so far, Here is a collection of Scilon PR lies contrasted with Scilon dox: (EXPLAIN THAT L. RON HUBBARD'S TEACHINGS ARE TREATED AS SCRIPTURE IN SCIENTOLOGY - any references? also explain terminology, auditor = Scientology counselor, pc= preclear=a person at a beginner level in Scientology) Chapter 5 of Dianetics (NEED EDITION/PAGE REFERENCE): Dianetics and Scientology - Examples of medical claims made by founder L. Ron Hubbard: (just an idea, can someone with a copy of Dianetics and a scanner post pix of the above quotes?) Scientology's website claims psychiatric and medical drugs are just as dangerous: DO WE HAVE PIX OF THIS HCOPL? AUTISM - should this be included? Do we have Scientology documents to back up the "degraded being" claim? I am aware that it is widely used as a derogatory term within Scientology and it has been mentioned by many ex-Scientologists, but do we have a specific definition that the CoS cannot deny? Interview footage:
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response /r Epic video using this epic information that has been gathered. nao.
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response I can cut a rough one together now, (or someone else is more than welcome to do it, any volunteers?) In the mean time it would be good to get the references doxed as much as possible. And moar audio clips too, there's bound to be some great stuff in the library of Hubbard audio anon has
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response OP said this was pretty much his intention from the get go. He has been quiet lately so I dunno if hes been working on it or not himself editing the stuff together. Might not want to do whats already been done.
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response I understand anonymous has access to an epic LRH audio collection and might be willing to assist. You might not get everything you want until contact has been made but in a few hours some anons already on WWP are sure to snip some audio for you. IMO don't wait overlong. There's no reason not to get something robust out now and keep this project going to create a series of videos that include more and more LRH audio over time as it becomes available. /r/ everyone checks and double checks references being used for video etc. and don't assume other anons are doing it.
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response This video should definitely have: LRH/DM quotes that contradict Tommy Davis' quotes What the CCHR says about Depakote ONLY THE BEST Dianetics medical claims; don't make it tl;dr The FDA-forced plaque on the bottom of E-meters, and why it was imposed in the first place Degraded beings, and the "quietly and without sorrow" quote (for added effect, make a comparison to Hitler) HIT IT LIKE A DC-8
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response This thread here has a (referenced) snippet of LRH on degraded beings in the first post: Operation Clambake Message Board :: View topic - The Today Show: Unfair & Unbalanced However, I don't think it identifies sorts of things that are degraded beings, i.e. doesn't say homosexuals or autistics etc.
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response I think it best several people make videos. For one, it makes it harder for the cult get them auto-rejected with re-loads. I've got the linear editor open with 'tommy davis channel'. I'm also looking at some DM and CCHR clips. What I've noticed is that: At least Baghdad Bob was likable.
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response This, the moar the better. I almost finished one last night but no time for rendering/uploading. Will finish after work tonight. For maximum views, a vid hosted on the Church0fScientology channel would be good based purely on subscription counts.
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response op of the Message to Tommy script here. if you want, you can edit my script for a vid. just don't change the bit about Tommy Davis being the cancer that's killing scientology, that's my favorite part, lol.
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response If some audiofag can go into the lectures and audio clip down the content to relevant clips then post them to megaupload, not so good amateurvideofags liek me (grand total of 3 videos under mah belt - yippie my last got 5300 views and counting - I so happy - people in China know wot I think nao) could use our little linear failfag programs to pick our fav issues to cut our own videos. One of the problems I am runnin into is the clipping down the audio for putting it into my mediocre lil Windoze MovieMaker thing. Make it simple as can be though, and I'll sit here mixing up appropriate lil one offs in my spare time til Tommy's in his grave.
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response Emphasize that this is not a new issue. Article from 2000 Scientology --- Scientology Kills Epileptics-- Heribert Pfaff Elsewhere someone was trying to compile medical claims of $cientology...some contained in this link belying Tommy Davis' statement that they only deal with the spiritual: Medical claims within Scientology's secret teachings One aspect of these teachings, and especially the NOTs courses, are the medical cures that they seem to be promoting. While Hubbard had no medical background and in fact only took 2 years of college courses with dismal results, he still made astounding claims for his auditing process, such as: Cure goiter - Dianetics Today (1975 Ed.), p. 280 "I've seen a goiter the size of a baseball visibly shrink and disappear in the space of one-half hour right after an engram was run." Cure polio- Dianetics Today (1975 Ed.), p. 353 "A girl crippled by polio was able to throw away her crutches after my first session." Cure arthritis - History of Man, p. 7 "Today, Eleanor has arthritis. She is audited... tonight she doesn't have arthritis" Speed broke bone healing - Dianetics Today (1975 Ed), p.110 "A broken limb will heal (by X-ray evidence) in two instead of six weeks." Cure effects of drugs - Dianetics Today, (1975 Ed.), p.481 "ONLY processing by Dianetics and Scientology can handle the effects of drugs fully." Raise the dead - Magazine Articles on Level 0, Checksheet 1968, "Dissemination of Material" p.75 "A child had died, was dead, had been pronounced dead by a doctor, and the auditor, by calling the thetan back and ordering him to take over the body again brought the child to life." Cure migraines - Dianetics Today (1975 Ed.), p.125; also see HCOB 15 Jan. '79 "Handling with Auditing" Cure cancer - The History Of Man (1961), p. 20 "Cancer has been eradicated by auditing out conception and mitosis." Cure skin cancer - All About Radiation (1979 Ed.), p.114 Cure radiation sickness - All About Radiation (1979 Ed.), p.109; also PAB no. 82 "Scientology is the only specific (cure) for radiation (atomic bomb) burns." Improve eyesight - PAB no. 111 "Eyesight and glasses"; also Dianetic Auditor's Bulletin vol. 2 no. 7 January 1952 "An afternoon with Ron" "You are only three or four hours from taking your glasses off for keeps." Cure a broken ankle - HCOB 30 July 1973 "Scientology, Current State of the Subject and Materials." Cure insanity - HCOB 28 Nov. '70 "Psychosis" "The alleviation of the condition of insanity has also been accomplished now..." Cure bronchitis - HCOB 14 Dec. '63 "Case analysis Health Research" "12 days after this auditing the coughing was still in abeyance." cure brainwashing - HCOB No. 19 Dec. '55 "The turn of the Tide" "... in Dianetics in particular, we have the total antidote for the eradication of brainwashing." Miscellaneous claims: - DIANETICS (1987 ED.) p.72: "arthritis vanishes, myopia gets better, heart illness decreases, asthma disappears, stomachs function properly and the whole catalogue of illnesses goes away and stays away." - HISTORY OF MAN P.13: "The GE has the record of past deaths. Auditing it alters physical structure, eradicates physical malformations." - HISTORY OF MAN P.14: "Paralysis, anxiety stomachs, arthritis and many ills and aberrations have been relieved by auditing them."
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response If this has been mentioned then disregard and cocks.... but when he says "we go to doctors"....doesn't he mean SCIENTOLOGY DOCTORS??!! Like the doctor(s) they took Lisa MacPherson to.... those same wonderful assclowns that give out vitamins to cure seizures??!!
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response Ok then, as the OP and others have said, it doesn't hurt to to have a few versions of this video made and it will make it harder for copyright bullshit to succeed
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response Agree anything done on this needs to be as concise as possible IMO it would really help to have a definitive quote (from a referenced scientology source) clearly explaining that in scientology hubbards words have to be followed to the letter/the concept of 'out tech'- either audio or written (one that will be instantly understood by non-scientologists) (I can only find stuff like "...in some local areas where verbal tech gets going and ethics is out , the quality sags. And there you have NCGs and slow pcs and "failed cases" ." which is to most people) And has anyone got a copy of Hubbard's Technical Dictionary? (excerpt here http://www.carolineletkeman.org/sp/images/stories/ethics/td-definitions.pdf)
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response LOL, it apparent there is no possible way to point out all the lies within the 10 minute constraints of a YT video. A 2 hour feature may be required.
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response THAT is a whopper of a lie, just begging for some of the Scientology doctrines about the "tone scale", homosexuals, and those infamous quotes from Science of Survival about killing off the leper population... but that's another video
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response Abandon hope for the mainstream media doing any research of their own, even before an interview. That's why we are here.
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response Degraded beings reference copypasta ************************************ HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE > > Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex > > HCO BULLETIN OF 22 MARCH 1967 > > IMPORTANT > > ADMIN KNOW-HOW > > ALTER-IS AND DEGRADED BEINGS whoops! There it is: Tech Vol ( red) 6, pg. 193-194. Yep, it's legit ******************************************** I bet this is in the Wikileaks archives.. go for it. BTW Anons can get huge help in finding stuff about CofS and Hubbdub from BIGGIE BIG SAUCE ta-dahhhh alt.religion.scientology on Google groups and use the internal group search engine. This is epic sauce, with croutons. Pl0x excuse the OG flame wars, however, as we were far less kind and sophisticated than Daywatch.
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response I find it interesting how Davis uses the word "absolutely" a lot -as in "that is absolutely not the case" or "oh absolutely..." without qualification.
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response fact checker / researchfag reporting in to halp where ever i can on this epic thread,... will search for this and report bak Technically a "preclear" is anyone who is under going auditing processes. All auditing files are called "pc files" so even an OT is referred to as a pc while in an auditing session. To make matters worse, there is more than one type clear in scientology although most often its referred to regading the most commonly/publicly known flavor of a 'dianetics' clear. Gimme a list of terms needed and i can halp define 'em Not yet, i posted a call for this dox on the medical claims thread and got no serious response other than 'check a library - its published material'. i was gonna give it a day for a PMinquiry to possibly pan out and if it still didnt show up by tonight, repost as leak request in leaks forum. personally i dont think so - no formal diagnosis available. stick with wat we know -> gran maal seizures is typically epilesy, they've admitted to seizures and we got good backup on epilesy to address it head on. No not directly, atleast not that i could find with two days searching when trying to help the press release effort. imo - it 's legit but it's an extrapolated reference... illness is defined as PTS, chronic illness would be extreme PTS therefore it makes for a degraded being. takes mutpile references to back it up, but still not a direct quote for specific context we are looking for.
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response on CBS Tommy addressed grief and says something to extent that "it's a huge emotional loss.an, an to the degree, and of course, I mean their soul-less in the concept...." Isn't "Emotional Loss" an action of the reactive mind? Where would this rank on the tone scale?
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response HCOB 22 Mar 1967 Admin Know-how Alter-is and Degraded Beings.pdf Science of Survival.
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response imo - there's a problem w/ using HCO BULLETIN OF 22 MARCH 1967 as reference for "degraded beings" being related to chronic illness. the usual hubtard contradictions get in the way. the majority of Alter-Is bulletin is based on differentiating suppressive from extreme PTS, and it states a degraded being can have case gains. So argument can easily be made it doesnt apply to our needs cuz incurable illness = no case gain. iow - it's a reach.
Re: Gentlemen -Tommy Davis and Our Response "incurable illness?" I thought the basic predicate here was seizure disorders and they are most certainly "treatable" if "incurable." So I'm not sure I agree with your rationale.
