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Gerry Armstrong: Germany gets another visit

Discussion in 'Independent Scientology' started by Krautfag, Sep 12, 2011.

  1. DeathHamster Member

    (The SPT version accidentally a few words.)
  2. Anonymous Member

    That's the Simon Bolivar PL (Responsibilitities of Leaders HCOPL - tl;dr how to cya) in a nutshell. Hubbard must have PDHed* that issue into Miscavige.

    *PDH - scilon for "Pain-Drug-Hypnosis", the thing they fear IRL more than Xenu. They are CERTAIN that if a psychiatrist gets a hold of one, this is what is done.
  3. Krautfag Member

    Reportedly the village called. They want their idiot back. Hurry up.
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Oh shit, it is still up there. Including the page he created on me:

    http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50grand/cult/usenet/ottmann-op.html

    I am still an OSA agent because I dared to criticize the Apostel of all Scientology critics: Gerald Armstrong. What a self-absorbed & self-aggrandizing fuckhead he was and still is.
  5. SPRTT Member

    I find that most people who become consumed with going up the bridge are self-absorbed. It's the ultimate in navel gazing. I can Clear the Planet but -only if- I move up the bridge. I, I, I, me, me, me. (cue Tom Cruise vid)

    This trait is so common, it doesn't even bother me any more. If we see it in ex-SCI, at least there may be truth in the results of their self-absorption, e.g., they actually might prevent someone from getting involved, either by persuasive argument or sorry example.

    I also agree that I'd be way more nuts if I had had to fight the battle alone. Obviously you've been around a long time to merit a spot on "Gerry's List," so hats off to you (and Pooks). Anyone who's tried to inform the public over the years has my respect for that, including Gerry.
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  6. jensting Member

    Maybe. But I tend to favour the view of the person I know who was on the RPFs RPF who described it as a machine to drive people mad.

    While the RPF's RPF is an extreme corner of the criminal organisation known as the "church" <spit> of $cientology, I would not want to say that my judgment is more robust than that of someone who was in.

    At the same time, context is everything.

    "Scientology, it's worse than you think."

    What you're saying, and what I can agree on, is that people who do not have an extensive background knowledge would tend to disregard information about the extremes of how bad the Co$ is. That's not to say that the information about the extremes should not be widely propagated, but user friendly introductions should be pointed out, at the same time.

    tl;dr; Someone get Stephen Kent to the microphone :)

    Best regards

    Jens
    • Like Like x 2
  7. You have to be careful with that. A lot of people stay on in Scientology because of the kick they get out of auditing. They are as conscious as heroin addicts about themselves. The self-aggrandizing aspect that comes with it ("You are an Operating Thetan") is certainly a contributing factor to their staying on, but I think that most of the Scientologists continue to be in the organization and continue to pay huge amounts of money to it, because they are addicted to the auditing process and their dose of endorphins they get out of it.

    Gerry's self-aggrandizing was born out of his post-Scientology experiences. I would say that he most likely had been a low-key Scientology staff member, but on the way during his ordeal in 1980s and 1990s, he simply lost touch with reality and at one point he couldn't perceive the world as it is beyond his self-declared importance.
  8. SPRTT Member

    You would know better than I do, Martin, about people and the "auditing" high. I don't know many people that can afford auditing any more. So I see a lot of navel gazing, because that is cheaper. Do you think the auditing high is something akin to a psychotic break? My friend had one and it sounds very similar in terms of how they described what it was like.

    I also believe I have a way to go before I can be consistent in my consideration of ex-Scientologists. I can allow that Gerry is hyperbolic, and be tolerant of quite a bit of over the top behavior in exes, but I can't stand Marty's brand of hyperbole and have very low tolerance for his behavior. It's a gut thing, for me. I'm not perfect.

    Some of these threads are notably on a deeper level about "tech," its effects on others, the results and the outcome...there are currents and subcurrents among the exes that I don't follow to completion. Frankly, I enjoy WWP because of Anonymous, because Anonymous taught me to laugh about the crazy, and not take it so seriously. There are serious topics worthy of serious discussion and unification (RPF, treatment of children, human trafficking, labor conditions), but whether Gerry Armstrong got nuts before, during, or after fair game is of little import to me.

    I do appreciate these things may have meaning for you. You come from a much different place, and I do not begrudge your understanding of the distinctions. Thanks for the advice.
    • Like Like x 4
  9. Dox?
    • Like Like x 1
  10. I don't know anyone who has been Fair-Gamed more than Gerry Armstrong.

    I also know no one who has produced more documentation on Scientology as a con than Gerry Armstrong.

    It's funny that 2 posters here - one who has definitely worked for OSA (Patty), and another I don't know if he has or not (Martin) - feel the need to bring up Gerry's sanity without addressing any of his ideas, or the speech he just made in Germany. For some reason these posters feel a need to remind us that Gerry Armstrong is a "nutter" without discussing what he is accomplishing in Germany right now. It appears that the topic of this thread - to these posters - should be Gerry Armstrong himself - his personality and his sanity - rather than what he is doing in Germany.

    I find that really fucking odd.
    • Like Like x 8
  11. Anonymous Member

    You find it odd, but there are many ex-Scilons that left the cult decades ago that knew & worked with Gerry in & out of the cult. They came to the conclusion he is a nutter based on different experiences. Gerry, despite all his infinite wisdom of the cult, has a bit of a reputation for being manipulative & has exploited his status as an ex-Scilon to demand fees in return for speaking engagements.

    Ask Gerry why Senator Xenaphon turned down his offer to speak to Australian officials two years ago when it was investigating the cult. Ka-ching. Patty & Martin have far more experience with Gerry than you do...
  12. People can find people crazy or insane for a lot of reasons. Scientologists think everyone is insane but themselves. In fact Scientologists will go out of their way to call someone insane and try to get everyone else to believe it. They do this so that no one will listen to what they say. It is a DA tactic - something that pre-discredits the speaker before he even opens his mouth.

    By the way, what did you think about the ideas Gerry spoke about in Germany?

    Here is a link to his presentation in Germany.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6XCXPx9yoQ
    • Like Like x 4
  13. What did you think about Gerry's speech in Germany, Anonymous Member?
  14. Anonymous Member

    Excellent.
  15. Did you see the part about Marty running an operation to recruit Gerry for the "Loyalists"? It seems like a pattern oddly similar to the one they are employing now. It may not be the same at all. But Marty now finds himself in a situation that is so oddly similar to the one he created to trap Gerry Armstrong - way back in the early 1980's. And yet neither Marty nor Mike have never mentioned the irony in all this. In fact, they still run the exact same messaging against Gerry that they ran while they were fair-gaming Gerry, as others are.

    If they are really different people now, you would think that their messaging would change - at least a little bit.
    • Like Like x 2
  16. Nothing like sending Gerry Armstrong out in the open to see what messaging gets delivered about him, and by whom.
    • Like Like x 1
  17. gandow Member

    Hi Romaxenu,
    -those who not remember the past are condemned to repeat it-
    What Gerry was talking about was that the new "Indie"-Operation remembers not only him to the "Loyalist"-scam of Rinder against Gerry from 1984 (sic! -TG)
  18. Smurf Member

    There's alot of history between those 3, who worked directly with LRH when Miscavige was a simple protege. Gerry quit the cult 25 years before M & M fled and he was the target of vicious dead-agenting coordinated by M & M, who remain un-apologetic for their actions. A simple apology to Gerry, most likely would not be enough for Gerry, but it's a start. But Mike & Marty are narcissists who cannot bring themselves to even do that.

    There's alot of bad blood between M & M and the many people they hurt over the decades... their pretending that it never happened.. or it's all David Miscavige's fault... isn't going to change the messaging and things are not going to get better. Marty can play the victim all he wants.
    • Like Like x 6
  19. gandow Member

    Gerrys trip was planned and scheduled many months before even Rathbun knew he will get an invitation to Hamburg.

    Gerry represents the victims of Scientology, while Rathbun represents the victimizers and is one of them.

    Only victimizers like You coward will glom on the coattails of Rathbun.

    So what? And by the way, this was not even what she tried to say to me.
    • Like Like x 8
  20. Actually, there exists or existed a document and I could kick my ass constantly for not having taken it with me when I left the FSO in 1992.

    In 1991, RTC ordered the FSO to stop auditing the staff as punishment for not making a weekly income of at least $ 1,5 million. No FSO staff couldn't get auditing unless the FSO managed to make its income target. That auditing prohibition didn't affect me, because I didn't get any.

    Weeks went by, and the FSO still couldn't make the 1,5 million per week. Then one day, a so-called B of I (Board of Investigation) was issued to senior staff, reporting that several staff of the Sandcastle HGC (the course and auditing facility for the OT6 and OT7 public members) were auditing each other despite the auditing ban for staff. This document or a follow-up document (I don't remember anymore) then listed the medical condition of the staff members who went on receiving auditing. These were basically the top dogs of the HGC, all OT7s, "highly trained", but two-thirds of them, physical wrecks. They had all kind of physical disabilities and were dependent on their auditing to find some release like drug addicts on heroin.

    That document (these documents) were really shocking to me at that time, because they revealed how dependent these senior scientologists had become on auditing. Apparently they couldn't get along without it.

    And from my own experience I knew that it was the endorphins that are released in the body (due to the mental stress that auditing causes), which gave them some release with regards to their miserable physical condition. I believe that auditing has a similar effect on the Scientologists like heroin has on drug-addicts. It wrecks you physically and mentally and makes you dependent. And becoming self-absorbed is an enventual accompanying factor.
    • Like Like x 2
  21. What are you trying to say? That we smell like "OSA whores"?
  22. pooks Member

    Just a few months ago he not only accused me of being one of the meanest people he ever dealt with, he also accused me of being OSA and controlling Emma and ESMB and trying to stifle discussion. All that because I though his behavior and the ideas he was promoting were full of moonbattery.
  23. RolandRB Member

    • Like Like x 1
  24. What did you think about Gerry's talk in Germany, Patty?

    Anything specific you would like to discuss - about the ideas that Gerry expressed in his talk there?
  25. I said what I was trying to say.
  26. pooks Member

    Obviously
    • Like Like x 1
  27. pooks Member

    In the past I took the time to read pages and pages of Gerry's screeds in an attempt to understand him. No way was I sitting though 2 hours of Gerry Armstrong. As I said earlier. His facts were never really in question, it was his conclusions I had trouble with. Especially the conclusion that he was a Prophet of GOD.

    So no, I didn't watch this 2 hour video, nor will I. My opinions on Gerry still stand and I don't think a two hour video is going to change it.
  28. pooks Member

    We are OSA or doing OSA's work!
  29. Patty would have you believe that OSA no longer exists, that OSA does not do anything in the present, but only operates in the past.

    She will seek to discredit anyone as insane who speaks of OSA in ways that mention a present time ongoing operation. She will not say they are wrong - but that they are insane - just like she did when she worked for OSA in the past. She says she does not work for OSA any more, but she is still doing her very best to label people insane who are present time targets of OSA, like Gerry Armstrong.

    I find it very fucking odd.
    • Like Like x 1
  30. Krautfag Member

    Thanks for the info and HELLO Herr Gandow :)

    /r/ the mods watch this thread carefully
  31. Anonymous Member

    No. There was a recently created PDF file that Marty claimed was the OSA program for Magoo. No provence what so ever. Most likely it was a part of a handling for Magoo who now feels validated by Marty and is singing his praises from the rooftops.
    • Like Like x 2
  32. gandow Member

    Dear Martin Ottmann,

    nice to meet You here after so many years.
    But how comes, that You pop up to attack Gerry Armstong just when we deal here with the continuity of "Fair Game" since 1982?

    What You write here would be OT.
    But it would be in continuity of Black PR against Gerry Armstrong.
    What motivates You to join the discussion just now with (OT) personal attacks?
  33. jensting Member

    <giggle> - a critics' purity check, Thomas?

    I would have let it go - you do your own thing.

    Best Regards

    Jens
  34. gandow Member

    Truth is, that I asked UC why Marty Rathbun not helps with his information to set the records straight and to revise Gerry's case.
    She said, that she does not know if GA was topic in the lengthy conversations between MR and GB, but "it could be".
    Then she said that Gerry is not the navel of the world.
    I answered that he might be at least a test case for the seriousness of Rathbun's position and turn.
    So she promised to me to raise this question to GB.

    Minutes later she gave me another phone call, telling me that she just even learned from GB about the upcoming meeting of Gerry with the Berlin Anonymous at the Luisen church and parish where GA and I were 8 years ago after the autobahn incident.

    This event in the Luisen Church was not a secret at all.
    To be there and celebrate a service and have a discussion after so many years was planned since more then half a year.
    The additional meeting with Anonymous was planned just to serve the questions of those people who know English and knowing the basic things about scientology. Then also it turned out, that we should also deal with the newly arisen questions (about Rathbun and Rinder).

    Sorry, I will not deal now with what UC said in this phone call.
    • Like Like x 1
  35. Ersatz Global Moderator

    I'm not in the mood to dissect this thread to remove the imported drama. If you want to talk about behaviors on another forum, go there and discuss it. We don't care.
    • Like Like x 6
  36. Anonymous Member

    Gerry, thank you for continuing to speak out!
    Looking at the poor and helpless reaction of OSA or whatever they call themselves today, obviously it was the right thing to do.
    Let's see if M+M have the guts to repair what they did to you and by the way as well to their country. Considering the financial situation of the US it isn't patriotic at all to "withhold" this information.
    • Like Like x 3
  37. Because I am OSA? Because my posts a part of an organized OSA attack on the self-proclaimed anti-Scientology apostle Gerry Armstrong?

    No, Mr. Gandow. Because it just happens that someone has pointed out that the webpage is still online where Armstrong accused me and others of being part of OSA. And for what? Because we criticized part of his activities and comments. This is nuts and it pisses me off. Especially when it comes from a self-proclaimed Anti-Scientology apostle.
  38. So, you agree with the contents of Gerry's page and the way his critics are presented, as OSA agents?

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