Gerry Armstrong: Germany gets another visit

Discussion in 'Independent Scientology' started by Krautfag, Sep 12, 2011.

  1. Krautfag Member

    Ehem, lieber Pastor, ich weiß :) Ich wollte den Schlumpf nur aufziehen.

    Aye, Gerry is a rock in the tide, albeit sometimes not a very clever or rather a very tactical thinking rock sadly. This does in no way denigrate his efforts and achievements. I wouldn't know if I would be as strong and persistent as Gerry. On the other hand you got to give smurf some credit for having overcome his osabotness and straight out saying "I did bad shit to people and I wish I hadn't", something the MRs are obviously completely incapable of as can be seen in the Gerry Armstrong case.
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  2. Ackerland Member

    Lieber Herr Pfarrer! Ihre Ironiedetektoren müssen neu justiert werden!
  3. Anonymous Member

    If it weren't for Gerry, we wouldn't have the Hubbard Admissions, which were more sekrit than OT XXIII, and were not meant to ever be seen by ANYONE. This, to me, makes Gerry the #1 thorn in the cult's side and a kind of hero if you like. As to his foibles, I care not.

    Gerry never said he was perfect. Some confuse him with Hubbard in this way. When you see who is confused, it is understandable.
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  4. Anonymous Member

    Anybody who has seen the cult's surveillance of GA can see how he has conducted himself when he didn't know he was being filmed.

    What comes across, to me, is a man who could have walked away from the CULT with a lot of its money, but who's conscience wouldn't let him.
    Having access to Hubbard's personal machinations, GA more than anybody understood the depth of Hubbard's occult ties and the evil inherent.
    GA couldn't leave the situation alone because of all the abuse he knew about and the unlimited potential for future abuse with Mscavige at the helm.
    At the same time he was naive enough to believe that there was some integrity among the "loyalists" (rathbun, rinder). Of course there wasn't.
    After all the dirtiness, lies and fair-gaming he endured, you'll have to forgive him if he didn't trust anybody connected to COS.
    That's my anonymous opinion.

    Then there were rotten lying whores who knew exactly what they were doing, pimped by OSA. Liars despise honest people, and sometimes will defame them on the internet.
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  5. Smurf Member

    This is typical Gandow-speak. Like the Indies devoted to Marty, Gandow is devoted to Gerry, and has been for a long time. In all fairness, Gerry & I engaged in a war of criticism towards one another years ago. Gerry's fan club would have you believe that it was one-sided and that Gerry was the "white knight," but the facts speaks for themselves. Gerry created a webpage mocking me as a can-can girl inferring to my sexual orientation. Where Gandow get's the impression that it's "transgender" is beyond me.

    The 1980-90's were decades I'd rather forget & put behind me, but some OG won't let me do that. They continue to carry a chip on their shoulder. I'm not accountable for that. I was a Scilon that blew that was mentally and/or psychologically incapable of defending myself at what OSA-Legal threw at me & my family, and I sought to remedy the matter by returning to the fold in return for being left alone.

    As Gerry, himself, can attest to, OSA-Legal are infamous for not keeping their word. My feeble attempt to remedy the situation turned into an exercise where I was manipulated & exploited & earned me the title of "flip flopper" by extremists in the OG, who posted this all over the Internet.

    Yes, I was exploited, manipulated & lied to by my terminals in the cult. But, regardless of my mental state or sanity at the time, I was responsible for alot of bad shit being perpetrated against alot of good people. And, I take personal responsibility for my actions. I'm not a fan of Marty's blame game tactics even if we were "brainwashed" or operating on a royally fucked-up mindset.

    I have nothing against Gerry and though we haven't seen see eye-to-eye, we're on the same side. But, neither of us are perfect or blameless. I watched his video from his visit in Germany, and he spoke the truth.
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  6. Anonymous Member

    Smurf, you were working with OSA to attack Gerry, right?
  7. dispart Member

    That injunction definitely needs to be removed.

    I understand his position regarding Rathbun and Rinder. It would definitely be the right thing for them to do to come forward, apologize and talk openly about all the things that were done to Armstrong without any preconditions. Also about everything concerning Eugene Ingram and what was done to Flynn. But I don't know if that's a category Rathbun thinks in: "Doing the right thing". My impression is that the main category he thinks in is: "How can I bring Scientology forward".
  8. Krautfag Member

    Smurf, spoken like a Gentleman.
    • Like Like x 1
  9. The main category he thinks in is: "How long runs the statute of limitation for [whatever particular crime comes to his mind that he had been involved in]?"

    Both sides, CoS and Marty Rathbun, know that certain areas are out of bound, cannot be touched in their battle, because it would open a can of worms which would hurt both sides in a big way. It's their very own mutual non-aggression pact.
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  10. Jeff Jacobsen Member

    Multiple flip-flops, over many years. Don't be bashful.
  11. Smurf Member

    Dox or STFU, loser.
  12. RolandRB Member

    They are Affirmations. Writing them is part of what you have to do to join Crowley's Magick circle.
  13. Anonymous Member

    Sounds not totally unlike Skull and Bones.
  14. Anonymous Member

    Magick is real faggotry, in both senses
  15. gandow Member

  16. Xinjifar Member

    1) Contrary to Rathbun's claims, there is no 'statute of limitations' on crime committed as part of an ongoing criminal conspiracy, and Scientology's criminal conspiracy is still ongoing and Marty Rathbun is *still* part of it, at a bare minimum he is still colluding in Obstruction of Justice.l

    2) While Marty has 'confessed' to the destruction of evidence in the Lisa Case, he has never revealed *what* evidence he destroyed, or who ordered it destroyed and how.
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  17. Anonymous Member

    While I agree with the substance of your post, there is no official recognition of this fact, so the statute may indeed run out meanwhile.
  18. Xinjifar Member

    I don't really get this. The only kind of 'official recognition' needed or expected would be the eventual indictments of the organization and the conspirators. Until then it's not like there's any kind of 'official list' of ongoing conspiracies.

    I'm just pointing out that Marty's claims to protection of 'statute of limitation' and any theories about how or why he's doing things based on it are off base. And, that any hope that Marty will finally be more forthcoming at some future date beyond the 'statutory limit' are also wishful thinking.

    The rules for what constitutes 'ongoing' as far as criminal conspiracy go may be more complex than the simple fact that Scientology *is* one, but, at the same time I think it's fair and safe to say that any and every crime committed by Marty Rathbun was done so as a part of Scientology's criminal conspiracy and not in a vacuum or *only* for his own individual reasons.
  19. James Spader Member

    Hello beautiful people. Bible school is now located in the Garbage Pile (nothing personal, God).
    • Like Like x 2
  20. Anonymous Member

    ^Righteous, brother.
  21. Anonymous Member

    Jesus wept.
  22. Anonymous Member

    Xinj, I was just saying that Scientology isn't yet recognised universally as a criminal conspiracy. In most places it is still regarded as a legitimate (if floundering) "church".

    I further agree the Marty is smoke-screening. I just don't know if he's still running ball for Miscavige or not at this point.
  23. Anonymous Member

    The Spader is my shephard; I shall not lulz.
    He maketh me to curse at my screen:
    He leadeth our posts to the thunderdome.
    He restoreth the threads;
    He leadeth us in the paths of rightousness for his name's sake.
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of censorship,
    I will fear no words: for thou art with moi;
    Thy mouse and thy fellow mods they also have dominion over us all.
    Thou preparest dome threads before us to hide all the bitchfights;
    Thou smackest a few with the Ban Hammer:
    But we can at least be grateful for no mo infractions...
    Surely pizza and caek shall follow us all the internet hours of our lives:
    Since we do dwell in the House of Manners and Good Taste until we log out.
    • Like Like x 3
  24. Xinjifar Member

    You say that as if they were mutually exclusive :)
  25. Anonymous Member

    Smashing! Only you forgot to mention his rollicking good sense of humour.
  26. Anonymous Member

    Right, well not in Our mind. Catholicism still has many followers also, despite a ex-Nazi, pederast-enabling Pope.
  27. James Spader Member

    Hey, I heard that.
  28. Anonymous Member

    I'm sorry, Your Holiness. +++

    Oh, wait, you meant...
  29. Smurf Member

  30. Anonymous Member

    Hate is for losers.
  31. James Spader Member

    As my old Ma used to say, don't take Jesus too seriously.
  32. Anonymous Member

  33. Within that context: Things that come spontaneously to my mind:

    Up until 1993, Rathbun was IG Ethics RTC, head of all internal & external "ethics" matters. As he was deeply involved in everything that had to do with the tax exemption, it is very likely that he was involved/ordered the wire tapping of individual IRS agents. That might have happened up until 1992. My guess is that in this case the statute of limitations has run out.

    Lisa McPherson case: He might have ordered and organized any wire tapping & bugging of Ken Dandar, Dell Liebreich & Minton. Such an operation might have started around 12 years ago, when Dandar included Miscavige on the defendants' list. It might have continued until 2003 when the civil case entered its stalled period. I don't know, would the statute of limitations on such activities still running? But then, I am not sure if that would consist of a state or federal crime.
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  34. Xinjifar Member

    Most likely both. And, the reason that statute of limitations does not apply to criminal conspiracy is that the conspiracy inevitably engages in obstruction of justice and similar crimes to hide the evidence. So, as long as the conspiracy is *still* obstructing justice to hide the evidence the clock doesn't even begin to tick.

    Example; Marty was a co-conspirator or even aware of 'Church' (which he was an officer of) involvement in wiretapping etc. as early as the '80s. If he went to law enforcement and confessed to the crime and cooperated in prosecuting it (assuming they chose to) then his 'statute of limitations' would begin ticking.

    *Not* until then, because with his silence he is *still* a co-conspirator in the crime of obstruction of justice involved in hiding the original evidence.

    Does Marty's 'confession' to having destroyed evidence in the Lisa Case constitute enough of a confession to begin some 'statutory' countdown? I doubt it. Since it was done pretty informally, with no details and only in a newspaper interview. But, it's all about whether the prosecutor chooses to prosecute; something the Pinellas County Prosecutor obviously chooses to avoid.
  35. Xinjifar Member

    Obviously there would be legal arguments aplenty if these things ever got to a Court of Law; but, that's the trick :)

    Getting them there and under oath and with discovery.

    Something neither David Miscavige nor Marty Rathbun wants.
  36. After seeing Gerry's video. I immediately felt a huge hate for Marty and even felt great about what the Squirrel Busters are doing. I think Marty is more worried about himself where most ex-SOs are more worried about educating and helping people. Calling him a "victim"???? What a fucking asshole!!! Gerry has been living hell for decades, while Marty kissing Miscavige's ass.........

    HOWEVER, at least he is doing something. He's hurting COB and the Corp. of Scientology, so I guess, we'll just have to wait and see if he will ever become a decent person.
  37. Anonymous Member

    I watched it today too and had the exact reaction/thought process. I know that Gerry has a problem letting go and letting others move on, but I couldn't imagine walking in his shoes so I will reserve judgment on that topic.

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