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Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

Discussion in 'Jett Travolta' started by Anonymous, Jun 10, 2009.

  1. Mutante Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    For real.

    But remember kids, that's not the profile of a bad or crazy parent.

    It can't be. Because he's a Scientologist.
  2. Anonymous Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    Huffington Post article now up.

    Jett Travolta's Autism: Confirmed for Cops, Not for World

    Jim Watkins: Jett Travolta's Autism: Confirmed for Cops, Not for World
  3. JMBrandon Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    It may be a bit off topic... but I have to wonder...
    did John give Jett touch assists in his dying state?
    did John attempt to use the 'Bring back to life' tech where you attempt to order the Thetan back in the body as Hubbard instructed?

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-0wlgnuT7Y]YouTube - How Scientology RESURRECTS the DEAD![/ame]

    I've heard reports stating "John did everything he could for his son...tl;dr" and that he rode in the ambulance with him...
    So I'm wondering if this is possibly what happened...
    Does this qualify as "bravely fighting" for his son...
  4. Anonymous Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    examiner.com

    What John Travolta could have done to help autism, how about now?

    What John Travolta could have done to help autism, how about now?
  5. Anonymous Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.


    According to this it looks like they are almost twice as likely to die to me.
  6. TypingChimp Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    False analogy. Parents doing what they feel is right for their children is also the justification for every bandage, every dollop of salve, every antibiotic, every stitch and surgery, everything (food or medicine) a child is given to ingest or injected into his or her veins for his or her own well-being. Herro is right. The problem is not necessarily the motivation, it is the actions. Hell, using your "logic", a person who accidentally swerved on the road and fatally hit someone is equivalent to John Wayne"Proving Creepy Clowns Are Crazy Too" Gacy or Jeffrey "I Eat Dead People" Dahmer. After all, the end result is a dead person.

    If this forces John Travolta to blow, it will be an amazingly epic footnuke for the cult. I don't know John Travolta, and I am not intimately acquainted with his wife's rack, no matter how much I wish I were. With rare exceptions, it is intellectually and morally indefensible to make psychological diagnoses of people without knowing a lot more about them than we know about John Travolta. While it is true that, either misguided or evil, Jett is still dead, what motivated him is extremely important, especially in a court of law. That's why Western courts typically have different degrees of murder, manslaughter, and other statutes on the books for crimes resulting in the death of another person. If he did so out of a misguided faith in the cult, it will be Jason Beghe multiplied by over 9000.
  7. Mutante Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    Do you not understand my posts.

    It seems to be ok make a psychological diagnosis of John Travolta that says he must be a good, responsible parent who firmly believed he was doing the right thing (apparently in the face of mounting evidence that Jett was deteriorating without medication).

    It seems to be ok to extend that diagnosis to explain away how he lied about Jett's condition but privately knew about it and went on vacation miles away from medical emergency help with a child who was having seizures without medication.

    It seems to be morally and intellectually defensible to suggest all of this is what a normal loving parent would do 'for the best'.

    Hilarious.

    My personal definition of good parenting does not include taking insulin away from diabetic children, inhalers away from asthmatic children or seizure meds away from autistic children. I do not believe the majority of parents think it is ok to take medication away from children otherwise the nation's child mortality rate would be thru the roof.

    Apparently others have different definitions of good parenting and that's ok but I won't be calling them to supply babysitters.

    I hope that's crystal now if it wasn't before.
  8. btwyhad Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    Mutante FOR MOD
  9. AnonyMary Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    Well, it was certainly the seizure that killed him. I do understand your frustration. Never the less, the Autism does have much if not all to do with him having seizures as they are what is known as comorbid conditions. That the Travolta's denied the problems and did not get him appropriate treatment for both disorders is really why people are so caught up in the excitement of Travolta's admission. I personally think he told the truth because it was under oath; that there was no way around it, esp with the upcoming trial of the chauffeur.

    Anyway, for those not well educated on the Autism and Seizures, here is a good primer the subject:

    Neurodevelopmental Disorders - Seizures in Children with Autism Disorders

    First Aired: 12/29/2005
    58 minutes


    2005 UC Davis M.I.N.D. Institute Summer Series on Neurodevelopmental Disorders presents "Seizures in Children with Autism Disorders" by Barry Tharp, M.D. (#11340)
    UCTV - University of California Television
  10. Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    IIRC, early reports talked about John, in the ambulance, calling out to Jett to 'come back'.

    Obviously, it looks like the grief of a dying parent to an unknowing observer, but to us, we see it as him trying (and failing) to use his OT powers.
  11. cubby Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    when did you get all eloquent and shit?
  12. Herro Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    But not because of autism. Why are people still bringing this up? It's irrelevant. What matters its the treatment, or lack thereof, of the seizures. You can treat seizures and still deny that autism exists you know.

    Mutante, there's two different issues. The first issue is whether or not Travolta's actions were detrimental to the health of his son. The second issue is whether or not Travolta, as you seem to think, was indifferent to the suffering of his son. Regarding the first issue, you are right, what matters is the outcome, not why Travolta acted as he did. However, regarding the second issue, Travolta's motivations are at the core of the discussion. You are claiming that he is psychotic and doesn't care about his kid. I'm saying that when you look at the situation and look at Travolta's beliefs, there is no reason to think that he was motivated by anything other than love for his child. You seem to be getting hung up on the fact that his actions may have harmed his child- but that really is irrelevant if we're talking about whether or not Travolta thought what he was doing was right.
  13. Mutante Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    I don't think anyone is saying John Travolta must be psychotic.

    But you and others seem to claiming he isn't, he can't be, anything other than a normal caring parent even though he seems to have taken a child he knew to be autistic and suffering from frequent seizures off medication and far away from emergency treatment.

    How bizarre.

    I haven't read a plausible explanation for that kind of parenting in this thread. How can a parent witness their own child having grand mal seizures, proceed to take medication away and go on vacation miles from emergency care?

    Maybe that's not what happened but that's the story we're all commenting on.

    You and others seem to think these reported actions represent perfecting normal parenting and I don't. If it was normal then I think child mortality would be sky high. We simply disagree, and that's ok.
  14. whoever Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    Maybe not, but you suggested repeatedly that he must be a psychopath.
  15. whoever Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    Not to get into what Jett did or didn't die from, but I believe you are wrong about the autopsy. The funeral home guy, Glen Campbell, stated that there was "no sign of head trauma" (and that the body was in good shape). I don't think the autopsy report has even been leaked, has it?
  16. Herro Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    Again you're missing the point. If the question is whether or not Travolta is a loving parent, what is at issue is whether or not he is doing what he thinks is best for his child, not the outcome of what he does. Whether or not what he is doing is in the best interest of Jett is irrelevant to the discussion of whether or not John Travolta acted out of love and concern for the health of his child.
  17. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    A working hypothesis never discussed so far AFAIK is based on conflict within the couple. I would favor the possibility of having JT nearer from "normal" thinking and KP as the pure scientologist, but it could be the other way round.

    As shifts of power within the couple occur - with a variable inluence of scientology over time like in TC's case - this could explain the purification rundown, the treatment, the end of it.

    It remains that a incredible number of risks were taken that lead to Jeff's death.
  18. Mutante Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    What could be wrong with a parent who sees their child struggling with a serious medical condition and decides the best course of action is to cease medication and go someplace where fully equipped hospitals aren't?

    Does that say 'normal emotional/rational parental responses' to you?

    For me, it's very far from normal. I don't get to decide what normal is but I don't see children falling like flies all around me where parents have ignored doctors' advice about routine pills and potions.

    Possible explanations include... what? So far suggesting anything other than 'perfectly normal parenting' seems to send most anons into a funk.
  19. eddieVroom Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    Good parents or not, they're guilty. Period. We've had a conviction here on just such a case:

    Jury finds Leilani Neumann guilty of 2nd degree reckless homicide - WAOW - Newsline 9, Wausau News, Weather, Sports

    edit: There's an intreresting part in the Prosecutor's closing statement: "They also said Kara might not have told her parents she was sick--because she was afraid she's get in trouble. "She had heard from her parents teachings that sickness was caused by sin," said Marathon County District Attorney Jill Falstad. "No wonder she didn't complain. Her parents would have thought she had sinned."

    IOW, the beliefs in the "religion" in question may cause the kid himself to shut the fuck up about how sick he is, making the situation worse -- and that THIS IS WHY that sort of shit needs to be shut down.
  20. Anonymous Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    ^^^THIS^^^
  21. rummychick99 Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    Travolta is a long way from his strut in NYC back in the day.

    Maybe he should put on Ozzie's version and strut away from the crazies.

  22. whoever Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    My quarrel is with your terminology. "Psychopath" is a diagnosis of a very specific condition. There are hundreds of thousands of people who are far from "normal" and who behave in ways I think show they're in some way out of touch with reality. That doesn't mean they should be labeled psychopaths. Of course, people can fling terms around anyway they like, but since you indicated that you know what a psychopath is, and said Travolta was one, it sounded as though you thought you could make a diagnosis of him from afar.
  23. Suzette Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    There are many reports from exes who were never diagnosed as autistic who were told not to take their seizure medicine.

    If the Travoltas took him to a doctor for his seizures they would have been told immediately that he should be taking seizure meds, including ones like Depakote that are also used for bipolar disorder. So they'd be in a triply difficult place: autism isn't real, you're not supposed to take seizure meds, and you're really not supposed to take anything that might be construed as a psych drug, when based on what we've been told, a doctor recommended a psych drug for his seizures. Remember Kelly was out there screaming her hatred of drugging kids.

    Subtract the autism from this equation, and you still get Scientologists being told by their church not to follow a doctor's best advice.
  24. Mutante Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    I would say I do.

    No I didn't.

    See post #287

    Where do you think I have misused the word?
  25. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    This is very close to calling JT a psychopath AFAIU.
  26. Mutante Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    OMG I'm being trolled.
  27. happy feet Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    Take the Norman Bates discussion elsewhere. ITT is only for special needs children like yourselves.
  28. BlooAnon Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.


    I read in one of the articles [not sure which one 'cause I fail at the internet] that he was saying in the ambulance "Come back, Jett. Come back. It's okay, come back." Over and over again.
  29. TypingChimp Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    Did I ever say I thought John Travolta was a good, responsible parent? "Don't know" means "don't know." I don't know him, and I can't make a judgment of his potential motivations based on such incomplete information. At the very least, he was woefully and tragically misguided, and unless and until he makes a serious change in himself, I feel more than a bit concerned about the safety of his surviving child. Motivations may not matter in what happened to Jett, but they can matter in the potential for what happens in the months to come. Don't be too eager to piss away the potential for this kind of win.
  30. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    As we know little about the Travoltas' motivations, may I suggest that we stick with their behavior that speaks volume.

    Having said that, I cannot help being admirative of the PR people's work in that case. They never went directly against the police statements, but tried repeatedly to undermine them. For instance about the duration during which Jett was left unattended, the time he spent in the bathroom and the qualification of the nannies. These issues are critical when trying to establish when Jett died.

    BTW if someone could help me finding where one of the EMT members said that Jett was dead at the time the ambulance arrived AFAIR, it would be very helpul.
  31. TypingChimp Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    ^^^THIS!!! On a related note, demonizing John Travolta does nothing for Jett Travolta, and it does nothing to bring down the cult. I find it entirely plausible that John Travolta is almost as much of a victim of the cult as Jett in this instance. Ultimately, this death lies not on the heads of John Travolta and Kelly Preston, but on the heads of David Miscavige and Lafayette Ronald Hubbard... and those who will pay the price will be the victims, as has been the case since this cult began. It is my hope John Travolta blows and saves the lives of other children by sharing his experiences with the proper authorities and the public at large. If he has a conscience under all those decades of cult indoctrination, he will suffer for this for the rest of his life.
  32. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    A few details:
    - Jett is dead, John and Kelly are alive.
    - John and Kelly are public, i.e. much more in a position to get some perspective than staff or SO, or instance; if TC managed to gain some space during a period, they can too.
    - Speculating about what they can or cannot do in the future is quite vein, IMHO.
  33. ZeLyt Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    ITT: Armchair psychology.
  34. TypingChimp Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    But I respect Mutante in spite of that fact. Just glad his avatar is no longer that creepy slutty clown. *shudders*
  35. whoever Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    I agree. Also, Mutante, when people tried to argue with your suggestion that Travolta was a psychopath, your response was to call them stupid, etc., which tended to reinforce your implication that Travolta was one. And your posts seemed to be grouping Travolta in with "that miserable 1-2% of psychos" who are psychopaths.

    Even above, when I said you'd suggested repeatedly that Travolta must be a psychopath, you didn't dispute that you had, you responded with justifications for it. So no, I can't quote you as saying "John Travolta is a psychopath," but that seemed to be the gist of your posts. If you didn't mean to suggest he was a psychopath, then why do you keep talking about what psychopaths do?

    I don't believe Travolta is a psychopath. I haven't seen any evidence that he's even close to being psychopathic. Judging from the mindfuck others have endured while in Scientology, I would guess that his mind has been similarly fucked with and he accepts the CoS's stances on autism and psychotropic medication. That's about as far as I'd go in analyzing the guy's mental state.
  36. Mutante Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    Here you are leaping to assumptions about John Travolta's state of mind again. This thread is full of it. He must be a good parent, he was thinking like any other loving parent, he was only doing what he thought was best, he was only doing what any Scientologist parent would do etc. etc. ad nauseum.

    The moment you see a more provocative possibility that might explain how a parent could see a suffering child and take actions that might indiciate indifference and result in child death, bam the board goes bugnuts.

    Fascinating. It's called a double standard.

    No-one here can make valid statements about John Travolta's state of mind. Not you, not me, not Herro, not one of his treehouse handlers. You can't assert John Travolta was acting out of love and care with any credibility in the same way I can't proclaim he was possessed by demons.

    I'm not calling anyone stupid. I am calling a bunch of people in this thread closed minded. I would like to shove the double standard in your faces but hey you're doing all the work for me.
  37. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    Seconded. We have two working hypotheses (at least) that cannot be proven wrong at this stage.
  38. TypingChimp Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    Counterpoints:
    - And if they're decent people, they will suffer mightily for it, hence the use of the word "almost". Frankly, I would rather be dead than experience the torture their own consciences will inflict on them if/when they finally wake up. There is nothing the Co$ or anybody else can do that would even come close to that pain. I believe John Travolta and Kelly Preston are culpable to a degree, but I think those most responsible for Jett's death are David Miscavige and Lafayette Ronald Hubbard.
    - So are/were a lot of other people in Scientology. Brainwashed cultie is brainwashed and a cultie, and they could easily have progressed to the point where they didn't know they needed perspective. People have been in the Co$ longer than the Travoltas before they finally got their wakeup call.
    - True, but I would rather not snatch defeat before we even know if there is a potential for win and how great said potential is.
  39. whoever Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    Um...talk about leaping to assumptions. I didn't say anything about whether Travolta is a good parent or how he did what he thought was best. I have no way of knowing that. I simply objected to your characterization of Travolta as being a psychopath.

    If anyone's gone bugnuts, it's you, by accusing Travolta of being a psychopath and then getting bent out of shape when people called you on it. If you had said that it was "possible" Travolta was a psychopath, and that it "might explain" his actions, and made it very clear you were simply indulging in some speculation, I wouldn't have objected, and I doubt much would have been made of it by others here.

    I am glad you admit that you cannot make valid statements about Travolta's state of mind. Perhaps you should have said that at the outset, when you started making statements about his state of mind! Again, I didn't make any assertions about Travolta's mental state other than to say I would guess he'd been mindfucked by the cult. Do you honestly think he has not been?

    You are really worked up about this, aren't you? I don't understand that at all. You made assumptions about Travolta's mental state that you admit were not valid, but then you denounce those who objected to your assumptions as being closed-minded. WTF?
  40. Mutante Member

    Re: Glosslip: John admits Jett had autism.

    You're not very good at this, are you ;)

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