Gold Base property line.

Discussion in 'GoldBase' started by TomVorm, Jan 3, 2009.

  1. TomVorm Member

    Re: Riverside, TO THE HARPOONS

    Obtaining property lines, of properties at Gold Base and in the surrounding area, is easy:

    Go online to: Property Information Center

    Click "accept" button

    Enter "Assessor Parcel Number"
    (This is a unique 9-digit code for each property).

    Examples of "APN" numbers at Gold Base include:
    430150013 (which is just South of Highway 79)
    430150014 (which is just North of Highway 79, and includes many buildings
    that are stated to be in use as residences).

    View the "page" from Riverside County records online. (You could print out,
    and paste together these pages, if you want to do a wider look at property
    boundaries in this area).

    There are many lots owned by Scientology in this area (many are held by their subsidiary "Building Management Services"), such as 430150001 (looks like the
    letter "K") and 430140008 (which is to the North of the "K" shaped lot).

    If you want, you can search online, to identify all the APN's held in this area,
    if you work with the APN format: First three numbers are the "book" number,
    the next three numbers are the "page" number, and the last three numbers
    identify a particular lot.
  2. TomVorm Member

    Re: Riverside, TO THE HARPOONS

    Areas where properties are controlled by Scientology in Riverside County, appear to include lots within the County Assessor's Book 430, on pages 014, 015, 016, 017 --
    and maybe also within pages 002, 003, 004, 019 of that same book number.

    Some APNs of properties known to be held by "Building Management Services" in Riverside County, include: 430150001, 430140005, 430140008, 430160002, 430160006, 430160007, 430160008.

    There may also be other properties controlled by Scientology, using different names, particularly the small parcels near Sublette Road (to the South of the main Gold Base location).
  3. meatpin Member

    Gold Base property line.

    There is this showing fence line, but I'm wondering if anyone has ever done the legwork and found the true property line?

    As far as I know this is something that should be public record available at the county tax assessors office.....
  4. exOT8Michael Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Great map!
    It would be epic win to get the official property lines accurately added.
    It galls me to think some of my money went to set up this gulag.
  5. A.Non Hubbard Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    It's worth mentioning that Francois' assault took place well outside of the red line
  6. Anonymous Member

  7. xenubarb Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Fairly useless, as it only shows the fenced area. There is no fence around the vacant lot Scientology goons claimed as Gold Base property.

    The real interesting survey would involve public land. That "50 ft. from center of road" thing is merely the highway easement. It has nothing to do with Scilon property/public property elsewhere in the area.
  8. NotBobMinton Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    On that map, what building is closest to where the scientologist attacked AO?

    If nothing else out of the whole AO lawsuit, the HAVE TO produce legal property line documents. Without them, there is no case.
  9. fotoanon Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    The "Castle".

    Near the "X" I think
  10. pardmepard Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    We don't have an answer to this question yet ?

  11. NotBobMinton Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    If it's where the "X" is, that would be about 80 feet from the road.

    For the Euro crew:
    50 feet = 15.24 meters
    80 feet = 24.38 meters

    And I think their no trespassing sign would be on the opposite side of those tire tracks, so without clear property lines available, that would be very confusing for any individual attempting to stay legal.
  12. meatpin Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    I agree, Barb, however, I have to ask, what would be the point of building a fence not on the property line? And such a convoluted one at that? Why does the fence not run from the corner of the the Castle out to the edge of the road? The fence is at the road edge in other places.

    Granted, this is speculation, but I think the answer may be that the fence runs on the property line. It makes no sense to surrender that spur of land, and leave it unfenced.

    Look at the map. The fence is nonsense laid out by a drunk or a wandering dog if it is not on the line.

    IMHO, potentially this is a huge win for Anon.
  13. Skeptic1337 Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    You have to go read up on property law. Something along the lines if you improve a section of property and maintain it for x number of years you own it if not one ever claims it.

    Seen it happen with a 1/4 acre some one owned next to a property that they was "appropriated" by a neighbor who improved it and maintained it.

    Kinda sketchy my self how that works but then I'm not a lawyer and I didn't stay at a holiday in last night.

    My guess it's something similar.
  14. Haruhi Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Mt. San Jacinto Community College is just down the street from Gold, maybe within a couple of miles at most.
  15. 727 Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    May I remind you that the idiots who are in charge of this place also believe you can "convince" someone to come back to life....

    Im willing to bet that they put the fence out further than the prop line, simply because, it keeps them darn kids off their lawn and unable to see much of what goes on, hoping to gain ownership of it later on. Its really that simple. Dont believe me or doubt it? Then answer me why a church has its own secret police, and a building for "troublesome staff" and "those who are not allowed to leave the Base." Nuff said...
  16. ghandi Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    This is true. Those that erected this razor topped fence and perpetrate the crimes which happen within it's confines have no regard for property lines or any other laws of man. It is also true that all such crimes are a kind of disease and should be treated as such.
  17. rummychick99 Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Adverse possession.
    Has to be open and notorious. You have to pay the taxes.

    You have a good point. A fence on the government's property would be an example.

    I can't believe that Graham Berry doesn't know where the property line is yet. It is an important part of his case.

    It appears that the victim was attacked some feet before the No Trespassing signs.
  18. imariscent Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    It's so sad that they can waste all this money to have all this land, and they can't even help the homeless.
  19. TomVorm Member

  20. rummychick99 Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Somebody is going to have to find out if it is 100 feet right of way or 60 feet because the victim was probably somewhere in between. I saw someone estimate it at 80 feet.

    How did the police come up with 50 feet from the center of the road? Did they pull that out of their ass that had been kissed by the lips of a COB or was that an arbitrary number put in place by the Council?

    Someone needs to get the actual survey on file that shows the actual footage.
  21. blownforgood Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    The property line on the South side DOES NOT END at the fences on the sides of the property. The property extends past the perimeter fences on the west side of the property all the way to Petreo creek/ Massacre Canyon and the East side of the property goes all the way through the Golf course through to the trailer park right before the bridge at State Street. The North side pretty much mirrors this except for on the east end it ends where the drainage basin is above the G units.

    Until next time...
  22. TomVorm Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Gold Base is much larger than the few properties shown in the linked zoning map.
    The intention was to evaluate protest restrictions nearest the main entrance, and to determine the legal status where AO was arrested.

    The described 100-foot state highway right-of-way (compared to an acknowledged 60-foot county road right-of-way), is based on documentation which has not been posted online (which is reserved to assist pending legal procedures).

    As a side note, a licensed land surveyor has the legal right to gain entrance to private properties (such as Gold Base), if that is required for the performance of professional duties. Riverside County's Record of Survey Book 59/Page 37 (of the early 1970's) shows some measurements based on local survey monuments that are to the North of the area where AO was arrested (but not all of the road there).
  23. rummychick99 Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Can a defendant in a California criminal prosecution pay for a survey to aid in his defense? Would said Surveyor be allowed into buildings for any reason or just be allowed in to survey land?

    Is there a Surveyor not in the pocket of Scientology that would reduce his rates to survey the piece of property - or at least relevant sections of the property.
  24. Oswald2001 Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.


    Double post.
  25. Oswald2001 Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Massacre Canyon you say?

  26. chortly Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    I just check Riverside County's GIS. The aerial photos and parcel lines don't match up that well. Really hard to see exactly where the property lines are. The "Property owner's name is unavailable online."

    Riverside County Land Information System

    Parcel Number: 430150013
  27. RHill Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Property owner: Building Management Services, an integrated auxiliary of Church of Scientology International, in other words, the compound belongs to Church of Scientology International.
  28. Re: Gold Base property line.

    a bunch of soboban indian women were angry that another tribe (i dont remember which) was up the canyon picking this little seed pod that can be ground up into meal. so they went back and told the men of the village that they were attacked and all of their food stolen by these people so they went and killed them all, the canyon dead ends and the women and young boys had no where to go. thus the name.
  29. Anon-007 Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    I do hope that you asked for tittypix.
  30. Re: Gold Base property line.

    if i was there i would have
  31. Relyt Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    A cop told me and a group of protesters something about an orange dot (?) to look for. Don't cross the orange dot. I still have no idea what the fuck he was talking about.
  32. Re: Gold Base property line.

    On Riverside County Assessor's Map Book 430, page 16, the public right of way is listed as 60'. In other words 30 feet, on each side, from the center of Gilman Hot Springs Road. This map is dated April 19 1996.

    On CalTrans Monumentation Area Map (Route 79, Post Mile 31.2, Sheet 2 of 5) also shows the right of way to be 60 feet (survey date 1994).

    Generally, a highway line is 12 feet wide so you can estimate the public right of way exentending 18 feet from the fog line (the white strip on the side of the road) for a total of 30 feet from the center of Gilman Hot Springs Road.

    If someone tells you the public right of way is 50 feet or 60 feet from the center of the road, ask them where exactly they got their information.

    Gilman Hot Springs Road used to belong to CalTrans but was later given to the County of Riverside who owns deed to it now. Riverside County might have more recent maps, but I did not have much luck with their map department when I visited several weeks ago.

    To know exactly where the property line is, you would need a surveyor.
  33. xenubarb Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    That orange dot is from the sniper's laser scope...DUCK!
  34. Re: Gold Base property line.

    I think he was referring to very small dots in the driveway to the guard shack by the Gold Era sign. He said the are very difficult to see. I could not see them when I looked for them.
  35. francie Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    Surveys are not usually filed as public record. Surveyors are hired by people to determine the exact location of a property line per the "legal description" of a property. The "legal description" of a property IS a matter of public record. Legal descriptions are words and numbers and measurements -- black text on white paper.

    A surveyor might make a map/drawing for you. He might also leave markers on the ground for you (like if you're planning on building a fence). There is probably no easy way to locate the ACTUAL property boundaries without hiring a surveyor, or learning to decipher the legal description yourself and go out there with measuring tools and surveyor equipment.

    No, the surveyor wouldn't be allowed into a building (unless they let him) since buildings shouldn't be ON or ACROSS a property boundary.
  36. Re: Gold Base property line.

    Surveys done by public agencies are often public record. I know, I have both state and county survey maps for Gilman Hot Springs Road. See my earlier post that contains the maps names.

    The problem with a surveyor's map is: how do you find the exact line or point on the ground? The survey maps I have say the property line is 30' feet from the center of the road, or was when the survey was done. That is close enough for me. However there have been changes made to the road since the surveys have been done: traffic islands and turn lanes. Presumably there are more current public county survey maps in existence, somewhere in the county bureaucracy.

    A survey could be staked out by a commercial surveyor, or you could get your own level and transit and based on the most current public survey maps and field points you could plot it in the field yourself - if you know how to survey that is.
  37. francie Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    But then again, there are "public rights of way" MADE by people using them. So even if the official ROAD right of way ends at 30' from center of road, there seems to be a side road here where AO was. Who uses it? How often?

    If Gold Base allows others to use that dirt road, or others need that dirt road for access, it's possible the dirt road has BECOME a public right of way and CofS has failed to defend it from passage and loses that right to claim "trespass".
  38. TomVorm Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    County maps and even Caltrans maps, may not tell the whole story.

    One important criteria is: Is the road currently located exactly upon the centerline, where it was originally deeded to the County, back in 1926? (Frequently roads are washed out, repaved and redeveloped, and there is no guarantee it was done in the exact same location).

    Only once you establish the accuracy of that statement, can you legally calculate where the right-of-way is actually located (if the present road is off-center, then areas of public access are similarly affected).

    Another important criteria is: Was the right of way enlarged, by means that may not be in a survey or title chain record? The upgrade to a state highway (from a County road) added another level of jurisdiction that may not be documented by local records alone.

    There is a map (that was legally filed with government officials) which indicates a 100' right-of-way where the highway traverses Gold Base. (Because of its potential legal impact, it has not been posted here). The question it raises is: What is that claim based on? The follow-up question may be: Did a piece of legislation or an agency mandate, override the local title chain (possibly by a "blanket" application of a 100-foot right-of-way to existing state highways) at some time between 1971 and the 1990's?

    I have seen references of actions of this nature that applied on other roads elsewhere, and it's possible that someone (associated with AO's defense) has acquired documentation that applies specifically to Highway 79 (but is holding back that data for legal reasons).
  39. DeathHamster Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    I believe this is the general legal thing:
    Adverse possession - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  40. TomVorm Member

    Re: Gold Base property line.

    The correct term, for an argument of "public access by use" would be "prescriptive easement".

    "Adverse possession" is a claim for title by acquisition by a private party (involving open and notorious use, and requiring payment of property taxes for a defined term, such as 5 years). The motive for adverse possession is to insure the state receives the income.

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