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HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by xenubuster, May 20, 2008.

  1. xenubuster Member

    HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    I've posted this in breaking news because, hey, it's new news and we need immediate input.

    This morning, we called HM Customs and Revenue and informed them of the situation re. CoS probably not paying its staff minimum wage. They say they DEFINITELY WILL investigate BUT it will be much easier if they have former staff members' input.

    Guys. Without exaggeration, this could be the end of CoS as we know it in the UK. In order for it to work smoothly, we really need some former UK staff members to come forward and talk to the Inland Revenue. If you are former staff, or know former staff, please reply below or PM me and I'll put you in touch with the relevant people.

    If someone could cross-post this at OCMB I'd appreciate it - I don't have an account there.

    MUST RE-EMPHASISE - THEY WANT TO INVESTIGATE AND WILL INVESTIGATE, BUT IT'LL BE MUCH EASIER IF FORMER STAFF MEMBERS COME FORWARD AND GIVE INFORMATION.

    EDIT - Sorry, it's working WAGE not working hours.

    Thanks for your attention and fingers crossed!
  2. Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working Hours UK - Help Needed!

    Talk to Orderous - he met with some ex-scis and this is exactly the sort of thing they said they would come forward over.
  3. MarcabEmpress Member

  4. Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working Hours UK - Help Needed!

    It could well be working hours as well as wages. There's a limit on those as well.
  5. Anondelivers Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working Hours UK - Help Needed!

    Posted this in exscn forums general discussion.
  6. anonymous1312 Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working Hours UK - Help Needed!

    PM'd the only ex-scientologist I know, they might be able to provide some input. I gather they sometimes only got £3 a week.
  7. bikerchick Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working Hours UK - Help Needed!

    memememe put me in touch with them. I'm an ex-staffer who was paid peanuts, in fact not even peanuts. I wish I'd been given peanuts...
  8. Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working Hours UK - Help Needed!

    Its usually about £6 a week, regardless of hours. It upsets me to think that they have to live off that in a first world country, and yet no one takes any notice. Well, until now.
  9. Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working Hours UK - Help Needed!

    Can the CoS just fall back on the "they're volunteers" argument? It's semantics, but semantics work for them.
  10. anonyrat Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working Hours UK - Help Needed!

    I've crossposted it to OCMB here and linked back to this thread. Put it in Opinions and Debate as that seems the most-read forum.

    This looks exciting, guys. I hope good things come of this investigation!
  11. anonymous1312 Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working Hours UK - Help Needed!

    Just push for the investigation and let HM Customs and Excise figure out the details. If nothing comes of it fair enough but we shouldn't pre-empt any decisions here. GOGOGO
  12. Anne Ominous Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working Hours UK - Help Needed!

    My legal contact has told me that there is NO legal reason for a contract saying "I will work for shite pay" to hold up in court.

    All exscn's - contact the original poster! We need your help!
  13. Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working Hours UK - Help Needed!

    For sure. Just playing devil's advocate. Helps to know the counter-argument before it's presented.

    Another thing to consider is: Would current scilons need to come forth for the complaint to be valid or would it take effect regardless?

    Just poking the argument from all directions to find leaks. Seal them up.
  14. anonymous1312 Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working Hours UK - Help Needed!

    Ah, true enough, I'd figured that arguement along with a few others they could use.

    It would certainly help more if current $cilons complained but that is unlikely to happen, however if ex-$cilons, the more recent the better as the laws change over time, it might create enough smoke for HM Customs to send in their fire brigade to check for the fire.
  15. Xolo Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    Im sure there was a girl in one of stu's videos who used to work in the plymouthorg protesting with him, shoot him a pm
  16. Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    Plymouth has a couple of ex-scis
  17. An0nand0n Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    PMed the ex SO guy
  18. Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working Hours UK - Help Needed!

    Recent ex-scilons are the best because the minimum wage laws have changed so much over the past 10 years.

    As for the volunteers thingy, pretty sure they can't claim that if they're not a registered charity.
  19. mojo Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    an investigation like this will be a MAJOR headache for scilons at the very least....and who knows what else they'll find?
  20. Ann O'Nymous Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working Hours UK - Help Needed!

    That is exactly the argument that put Belgian scientology into trouble recently: they were advertising jobs, but were getting people signing volunteer's agreement with the loose perspective of a job.
  21. Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    It's my understanding that if they pay them anything at all, then this counts as a wage. If they're a charity with volunteers, then no, they don't have to pay. But if it's actually called 'wages' or 'pay' anywhere, then it counts.
  22. Cinnanon Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    Current HM R&C Minimum Wage Regulations

    Thought that might be helpful.

    TL;DR:
    £5.52 per hour for workers aged 22 years and older
    A development rate of £4.60 per hour for workers aged 18-21 inclusive
    £3.40 per hour for all workers under the age of 18, who are no longer of compulsory school age.

    Let's hope they dig up a lot of dirt.
  23. AnonyMILF Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    Don't think it'll work even if it does go through - CoS will probably just say the Sea Org are volenteers and not employees.
  24. Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    pessimistic anon is pessimistic!

    The point is, even if it doesn't work, an investigation enturbulates, who knows what else it might uncover, and transparency is a thing the co$ hates.
  25. bikerchick Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    That'll be me :D
  26. asagai Member

  27. AnonyHamster Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    I might be able to be of some assistance (ex-SeaOrg) so if you could put me in touch with the relevant people that'd be great.
  28. Anne Ominous Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    PM the OP and he'll get you all set. Good man/woman!
  29. AnonyMILF Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    True true :3 Disregard my last post. :tom:
  30. Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    Investigation is fine regardless. It'll generate press and perhaps something else will get dug up or confirmed. But it'd be nice to see it take hold though.
  31. ANON E MOOSE Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    I would fucking hate to be the scilong spai that comes across this thread and has to report back about it.
  32. Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    Exactly my thinking. When you're investigating anything, you will uncover info not relating to the task at hand. If we can get one government agency investigating them then the walls will come tumbling down.
  33. asagai Member

  34. misskittie Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    Min wage was only introduced in 1998 (?) so anyone who was paid less than £5.52 per hour before this isn't relevant sadly. Until 1998, paying 1p per hour then deducting for board was legal in the UK. Only people employed on less than £5 since 1998 needs to get in touch (£5 was the original minimum wage or thereabouts). Older employees may be good back up to show a history of behaviour by the church so I suppose do get in touch!! The OP might be better placed to decide what is relevant.

    It is legal to deduct expenses from an employees wages in certain circumstances. My mate gets £6 but he lives on site in provided accommodation so they claw back the equivilent of £1 per hour for bed & board. There should be guidance on this on the HMRC website somewhere but I cannae be fecked to look, sorry! This could well be their "get out" on this one.
  35. asagai Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    It's already all on the Operation Maximum Wage thread.

    The document is http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file11671.pdf

    This is duplicating the info already on the original thread. Mod please merge the threads if you can, to save me posting everything twice.
  36. xenubuster Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    Thanks for all your support on this, guys. We've had several people come forward so far, not just from here. This is shaping up to be very interesting!

    Apologies if we stepped on Operation Maximum Wage's toes with this, but when we called the HMRC seemed unaware of any current investigation. We were merely making an enquiry call - it was they that suggested even the 3rd party evidence available was enough to initiate an investigation.

    EDIT: All credit for the call needs to go to Close from IRC - for once, he didn't fail at something!
  37. Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    OG tried this in Holland a few years back. Flunked on the volunteers argument at the time. Doesn't mean it'll fail this time though.

    Laws change and differ. Also: Belgian raid and the German journo who went undercover for 5 months. I don't know if these are permissible as evidence for a UK case, but they clearly show how recruiting works.
  38. asagai Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    No problem re Operation Maximum Wage, all pressure is pressure wherever it comes from. The HMRC investigations are confidential so they won't tell you about any ongoing investigations.

    I am also in touch with an MP about this and the petition runs until the end of July. So that is two more angles that the HMRC will hear about this from.

    It's all win!
  39. Stitch Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    Bump.

    Excellent stuff. I have pointed a few ex silons at this.

    Spread this around don’t let any ex's miss this.

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