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HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

Discussion in 'News and Current Events' started by xenubuster, May 20, 2008.

  1. Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    The German reporter video is here : Undercover in Berlin

    he was told he could receive 'up to 50 Euro's a week', for 52.5 hours work. So even if they granted him the maximum on offer (highly unlikely) it would still be just less than 1 Euro an hour.
  2. teh_platypus Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    that's some pretty good evidence right there!! But it needs to be UK stuff i think (Seeing as it is UK Customs dealing with it amirite?)
  3. ScudMuffin Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    There's Stu's Ex's Undercover Vid...that could be useful.
  4. docpaul Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    Update on Government response to petition 'Scientology National Minimum Wage'

    The Prime Minister's Office has responded to the petition and you can view it here:
    Number10.gov.uk ScientologyNMW - epetition response


    Full text:

    Read the Government’s response
    The Government takes complaints about failure of employers to pay the National Minimum Wage (NMW) very seriously.

    HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) enforces the NMW under a Service Level Agreement with the Department for Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform (BERR). Under the terms of the Agreement, HMRC provide information, inspection and enforcement services, and respond to enquiries and complaints from workers, employers and third parties to help ensure that employers comply with the minimum wage legislation.

    If in the course of an investigation HMRC believe that the law has been breached, then the amount of arrears in question will be quantified and the employer asked to pay. An individual can also take their own case to an Employment Tribunal or civil court.

    HMRC also have a legal duty of confidentiality towards their customers. For NMW, this includes employers and their workers. This means that HMRC cannot disclose details of cases to those who report alleged instances of non-complaint employers.

    Furthermore, all workers who rely on their rights under the Working Time Regulations are protected from unfair dismissal or detriment through The Employment Rights Act 1996. This Act confers an express right to seek redress through complaint to an Employment Tribunal for workers whose employer fails to follow the Working Time Regulations. In addition to individual enforcement before an Employment Tribunal, the Working Time Regulations are also enforced by the Health and Safety Commission, through the Health and Safety Executive (HSE), or local authority Environmental Health Departments in respect of the limits on working time and health assessment requirements.
  5. asagai Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    This National Minimum Wage action by HMRC is still alive and well.

    The UK tax authorities are right now, this January, looking more closely at the nature of the relationship between CofS and staff.

    Obviously what this comes down to is the validity of the claim by the CofS that staff are volunteers.

    In particular HMRC are looking at whether targets were set, what happened if one failed to complete tasks, if there were specific work times, what happened if one arrived late, left early or didn't turn up and if any sanctions were imposed!

    Of course we all know the answer to these things, but the task now is to inform HMRC what the answers are.

    I can't be any more specific, but slowly it looks like the truth is getting through to the UK tax authorities.

    One of the more amusing questions concerns the choice one had as a staff member!

    Any newbies to the board who are in the UK and were employed on non-SeaOrg contract can make a National Minimum Wage claim to HMRC and add their weight to this campaign. Details are contained in this thread or PM me for a briefing.
  6. TheBitch Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    [IMG]
  7. Cachapoal Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    Good work asagai!!!

    This totally rocks.
  8. Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    Big up to those involved...this is one of the most important actions IMO.

    It's a weak point for the "church," one that will hit them where it really hurts (in the pocket), & will hopefully be replicated worldwide if the action's successful....I've heard Marc Headley's been doing a little something on this front too ;)...it may also help get a percentage of people out of the cult, as the enforced poverty was (and still is) a conscious control factor created by Hubbard.

    Either way, it can only be a good thing to give people a decent wage for the unbelievable hours they continue to be forced to work.

    If there are any more exes out there who worked in the UK for Scientology, please please get in contact now. The ball is rolling, AND UNLIKE THE STATES, YOUR CONFIDENTIALITY IS ASSURED. HMRC are a heavy-duty organisation: dealing with everyone from terrorists, sophisticated organised crime to tax matters. They should not be taken lightly, and if they feel extra internal protection's necessary (to ensure that attempts by UKOSA (or in this case their hired guns) to access the list of complainants is likely, have NO DOUBT that they're well equipped and well experienced in dealing with it.

    TL:DR

    You have nothing to fear from the "church" by making a complaint in this way. Whether you want to right a wrong, or help family members still in. Please do it. DO IT NOW :)

    The war with Co$ will be won by a thousand cuts...

    What did you do in the war?
  9. An0nand0n Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    Fucking epic news, I was worried they'd shelved it. I suppose these things take time. >9000 internets for everyone involved!
  10. Anonymous Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    Updates on this, fine sirs?
  11. Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    Maybe I'm stating the obvious, but is anyone actually going to put a claim in for wages? Can you say "Declared?"
  12. Anonymous Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    With Miscavige still in UK, now is the time for HM Customs to pop over and ask him a few questions as the head of Scientology corporation.
  13. Anonymous Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    The question is, has anyone involved with this gotten off their ass and called the person at HM Customs they've been dealing with to let them know that DM is in the country?
  14. Anonymous Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    bump information needed
  15. Anonymous Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    I heard that one of the claimants had a call from a junior official at HMRC to say that the "orders from above" were to cease investigating the CofS as they were "too litigious", and that ex-staff would continue to be regarded as "religious volunteers".
    Of course, HMRC is most likely infiltrated by OSA, obviously.
    Any ideas? Contact Ministers maybe?
  16. Anonymous Member

    Re: HM Customs Want To Investigate Working wages UK - Help Needed!

    Maybe this guy had something to do with derailing the investigation

    The Legal 500 > Pump Court Tax Chambers (Chambers of Andrew Thornhill QC) > London, ENGLAND > Lawyer profiles > Kevin Prosser QC

    [IMG]


    Revenue & Customs v Church of Scientology Religious Education College Inc, Court of Appeal - Chancery Division, June 08, 2007, [2007] EWHC 1329 (Ch)

  17. RolandRB Member

    Can I join in here? I know how their pay scheme works. Although it says "volunteer" in their contract it is just their polite way of wording things to make it very clear to the person signing up that they should not expect to make any money out of it for the time being and that they certainly should not expect to receive minimum wage directly after signing up. They actually do get "paid" and it is called "pay" to this day and the pay system is explained in OEC vol 3 1991 (which these days anyone can download if they Google it). In it you will find a section called PAYROLL. Staff get paid according to a "unit pay" scheme which is rather like a shared heirarchical commission scheme and the way it works is described below with further clarification in the following entry. This is clearly not "volunteering" nor "volunteer workers" as is commonly understood. People who work there know they will get almost nothing for the time being but hope the situation will improve in the future and the money will start flowing in. Indeed, the future looks rosy with their large and impressive building at 146 Queen Victoria Street in the City and their planned purchase of the Old Sessions House in Clerkenwell for the benefit of London celebrities. There could be a huge revival for Scientology in the UK just around the corner. Working for no reward now as a "volunteer" is a gamble that may well pay off. My objection to this is that by not paying minimum wage it gives a disadvantage to those with dependents and very little money who are desperately seeking work who would want to contribute to this organisation but who need a living wage in the short term.

    This is the staff contract as it currently stands. The second page makes it clear that they are volunteers:
    http://www.exposescientology.com/contracts/cos-staff-contract-1996.pdf

    The above document is worthy of careful study. In it they agree that they are volunteering to be members of staff for a fixed term, to follow policy, with limited holidays per year and that they understand that they will not get minimum wage and that if they terminate their contract early then they will be a "freeloader" and owe money to the organisation for 50% of the cost of the services they have received. This "freeloader debt" could amount to thousands or even tens of thousands of pounds. There is a mention of "pocket money" and since this will be provided according to policy then we can find out more about this from the relevant policy document which will be done next.

    The document at the start of the OEC vol 3 (1991) PAYROLL section governs how their staff are paid to this day. This will be the "pocket money" mentioned in the contract they signed.

    (Note that the old English monetary system of £.s.d. is used in the document below mixed in with decimal notation. There were twenty shillings (s) to the pound (£) and twelve pence (d) to the shilling. The value £10.1.3 shown below has been miscalculated and should have been £10.1.7):

    =================================================================

    HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
    37 Fitzroy Street, London W1

    STAFF NOTICE OF 5 APRIL 1957

    PROPORTIONATE PAY PLAN PROPOSAL

    THE SITUATION:

    The board cannot raise wages as such since it is also afraid that in some
    slack period the payroll would swamp the Association. Thus, even in a good
    period it cannot raise wages. All management is in this situation-hence its
    attitude on wages.

    WAGES:

    Working for a wage is one of the deadlier control mechanisms since it brings
    about an irresponsibility in the person for his job. Fixed wage is a means of
    suppressing a person into a slavery class, pegging him at no hope. This mechanism
    is one of the best modern society has for keeping people down. It is
    artificial and arbitrary and denies a person the fruits of his labor.

    THE ASSOCIATION:

    Since the publication of two new books and after a year and a half of hard
    work by myself and council and staff, the Association is a new organization. Its
    earning potential has not been realized yet. It is not the old Association. Its
    income is already rising above old levels.

    However, the Association is stable. It has been here and functioning for five
    years without a falter and it is winning all the time.

    SCIENTOLOGY:

    While we have for years been far ahead of any of man's earlier technology
    on the mind, new certainty and ease of auditing have been added in the past three
    months which eclipses earlier strides. That is why I am here. Had I not had so
    much to impart, I would possibly not be here for this congress.

    I am confident as never before concerning lower-level and higher-level cases.
    With what we know we can expect a soaring climb of Association businesswhich
    has always been just as good as the subject worked. Today we have four
    times the preclears we had in this period last year. We're doing four times better.

    ORGANIZATION:

    With the proper organization of a procurement section, Association business
    is expected to rise.

    325

    PAYROLL:

    As the Association books will show, wages comprise an average of about
    44.89 percent of the Association's gross income.

    As the book sales of the Association are a minor part of its income, these
    can be and would be omitted from the gross on which this is based.

    With book sales omitted from income, the figure could be estimated at
    around 48 percent of the whole gross.

    With this pay plan proposal, I am prepared to make the amount to be spent
    on wages 50 percent of the gross income less books and tapes. This would prove
    considerably more than it has been.

    THE PAY PLAN:

    Pegging salaries in proportion where they are and then using this as a unit
    value, we could divide these units into 50 percent of the gross income less books and
    tapes each week and pay on that basis the following week. This would then give each
    staff member or employee the benefit of any increases in income as are expected.
    There is no reason for the Association to pay it to Inland Revenue in profit tax.

    In this way the board would not be worried about salary increases. And the
    salaries would increase to the degree that the Association earned.

    Further, this is not a firm or corporation run for the profit of a small group
    at the top. What it earns should be shared since it is the product of the effort of
    all of us.

    PROPORTION OF PAY

    Of the gross income less books and tapes, we would use all of 50 percent
    always for pay purposes. This would never be cut into for any other purpose or
    changed from "50 percent for pay."

    We would take 25 percent and pay from it the bills of the Associationutilities,
    building costs, supplies, phone, payments on property, etc., as well as
    old bills of all kinds including books and printing. (Books, a small income
    factor, are really advertising.)

    We would take the remaining 25 percent of the gross and use it as an accumulating
    fund for new quarters outside London, for royalties and a sinking fund.

    All these percentiles are on the gross less books and tapes.

    The book and tape income we would set aside and out of it buy new book
    stocks, pay old printing bills and, in general, use it as though it were part of the
    expense 25 percent to which it would be weekly added.

    EXAMPLE

    We would take the pound as par. If one were now getting £8 a week, he
    would have 8 units. If one were getting £6.10.0, he would have 6.5 units, etc.

    326

    We take all the pay for a week in terms of units. Let us say we have a gross
    of 250 units. Let us say we have a week's income of £500. Fifty percent of £500
    would be £250. We divide the units 250 into the 50 percent 250 and we have pay
    for that week of par-unit is one pound.

    Now let us say we have an income of £630 for one week. We would take 50
    percent of this and we would have £315. Divide 250 into £315 and we have a unit
    value of 1.26. This gives us a pay unit of £1.26. Multiply this times 8 units for a
    person getting 8 units of pay and we have a pay for that week for that person of
    £10.1.3.

    WHAT PAY WOULD BE UNDER THIS PLAN

    We would hold staff units of pay between 200 and 225, this being the
    margin necessary for management to operate.

    We would convene regular staff meetings and change the number of units
    only on staff majority vote - a necessary restriction on management which could
    not be permitted to rearrange pay units so as to compensate for increased income.
    Management would only have power to adjust units within the 200 to 225
    but not to go above or below without a majority vote.

    HISTORY OF THIS PLAN

    This exact plan has gone into use in Washington. The staff there voted to go
    all out on this. They have been paid about 10 percent better for the first few
    weeks of the plan but income is just now beginning to rise.

    RECOMMENDATION

    I recommend that you study this well.

    You should realize your pay could go down as well as up.

    The primary reason this plan is advanced by me is to raise pay.

    However, a great change of operating could take place by reason of this plan.

    Think well. Then we'll have a staff meeting and vote on it.

    I've made my bid here to better things. Hope you see it that way too.

    L. RON HUBBARD
    Founder

    327

    =================================================================
    So the "pocket money" mentioned in the contract is in fact contractual "pay". It is not payment of expenses to volunteers. Paid jobs are subject to minimum wage by law. It makes no difference if you have signed a document of your own free will agreeing to forego it. You are still entitled to it.

    I contacted HMR&C about this and sent a link to this to a few media outlets.

    Roland
    • Like Like x 2
  18. RolandRB Member

    Further clarification to the above on what is meant by "unit pay" from Arthur Dent:

    http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=526231&postcount=15

    Units pay:
    Each post is worth a certain number of "units."
    If you are fully trained for your post you have additional "units."

    After the Gross income is in and bills and tithes are paid, the remaining money is
    shared for staff pay according to their "units."

    If there is $1000 left over, for example, it may be split like:

    Exec. director 20 units
    Exec. secretary 15 units
    Public Exec. sec. 10 units
    Dir. of Processing 10 units
    Auditor 7 units
    Booksales person 3 units

    You get the idea. So that's a total of 65 units and the $1000 is split into 65 units.

    Anyone can feel free to correct or clarify but that's the general idea.
    __________________
    Arthur Dent.
  19. OTBT Member

    Scientology Employment Policy Letters

    PDF, 30 pages of plain text, 140 kb

    Direct link to Scribd

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/19462743/Scientology-Employment-Policy-Letters-

  20. RolandRB Member

    Has anyone got an online contact form or email address for these people so I can report what I know?

    Edit: OK, dunnit.

    Also sent to a few media outlets after improving the wording.
  21. RolandRB Member

    I think HMR&C (ex IR) are gutless cowards who are only there to put the frighteners on the little man who owes them the odd grand (£1000) in tax. They would never go after a big company who owed them millions or billions. I think this needs to be exposed. If they will not reveal their methods and their priorities then perhaps what is needed is a civil disobedience campaign in the UK to the effect that if these big companies can get away without paying tax then why the hell should the ordinary man in the street, struggling to make ends meet, pay them anything at all?

    Obviously the HMR&C already know that the CoS are not paying minimum wage, due to representations made to them by ex-members, and yet they choose to do nothing to enforce it.
    http://forums.whyweprotest.net/thre...wages-uk-help-needed.12012/page-5#post-272602
  22. RolandRB Member

    Contact me and give me all the details. I will get in touch with them. I will give this to the newspapers.

    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/TheNationalMinimumWage/DG_10027201
    "You are entitled to the NMW even if you sign a contract agreeing to be paid at a lower rate. This is regardless of whether you sign of your own free will or because your employer persuades or makes you. The contract will have no legal effect and you must still be paid the proper rate."

    http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?itemId=1081666675&type=RESOURCES

    http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdot...t=RESOURCES&topicId=1081658554&type=RESOURCES

    http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdot...t=RESOURCES&topicId=1081658554&type=RESOURCES

    http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdot...t=RESOURCES&topicId=1081658554&type=RESOURCES
    • Like Like x 1
  23. RolandRB Member

    If they are all "volunteer workers" now and they only get reimbursed their travelling expenses then does the ED get reimbursed more travelling expenses than the more lowly workers? This is not a snide comment. Does anyone actually know the answer to this from being on staff?
  24. RolandRB Member

    What does the video reveal exactly?
  25. xenubarb Member

    Poor thing...can't even afford a car...
  26. RolandRB Member

    I am wondering specifically what (non-Sea Org) staff are promised in exchange for their work. I know they get 50% off the cost of services but are they given any free auditing up the Bridge in exchange for their labour? What about training - is it training above and beyond what they require to fulfil their staff duties on post? This could have consequences for minium wage if they claim they are "volunteer workers".

    We all know about the "unit pay" scheme they have used for a very long time. How does the number of units their post is affect the so-called "travelling expenses" they get at the end of the week? I need to know the situation as it stands now or recently.
  27. RolandRB Member

    Suppose a member of staff signed up for a 5 year contract and during this time they got their auditing at half price all the way up to clear for 20K GBP then if they left before their contract was over would they have a freeloader debt of the discounted 20K GBP? I am wondering if this is the case and if it is then whether they can be regarded as "volunteer workers".
    • Like Like x 1
  28. 004 Member

    Min wage is £6.08 per hour at the moment in UK by the way. I'd prefer UK wouldn't have one.
    • Like Like x 1
  29. 004 Member

    Free auditing...whoop de ***ing do. Give em free something that is worthless - way to go.
    • Like Like x 1
  30. RolandRB Member

    They sure as hell don't get paid that much. More like 50p per hour.
  31. 004 Member

    Playing Devil's advocate for a moment, why should someone be paid for something that has zero worth, that is, indirectly supporting CoS? If I ever fitted a fusebox or something for them I would rather they give a donation to XenuTV or something rather than pay me.
    • Like Like x 2
  32. 004 Member

    Slightly off topic, but...

    This is what irritates me about price floors: they create surplus labor, namely, for folk like me who are not worth £6.08 p/r, I can't under cut the guy at £6.08 hr. And it is coercion by a third party.

    If I agree to a contract between me and another, that we both mutually, and voluntarily agree to, that's my business and their business - who does the govt think they are to coerce others into what they think is fair? That which is "fair" (A word I've always had issues with) is for the citizen to decide for themselves and between themselves. What is fair for one may not be fair for another - unless that "fairness" is mutually and voluntarily agreed between themselves.

    *fume*...I'll put my soapbox away now.
    • Like Like x 1
  33. 004 Member

    I think the UK govt is too scared to take on Co$, just like the IRS was.
    • Like Like x 1
  34. RolandRB Member

    ^^^
    If somebody has a wife and a baby and they need work then they need to be recompensed enough to support their wife and baby so they should be able to compete on the same basis as a single person without dependents. I think the 6.08 GBP per hour is a reasonable minimum recompense.
    • Like Like x 1
  35. RolandRB Member

    Instead of applying the law they use discretion instead - just like CoLCorp with business rates.
    • Like Like x 1
  36. 004 Member

    • Like Like x 1
  37. RolandRB Member

    Have you heard of the scieno net nanny? No Scientologist is allowed to read a web page with the word "Roland" on it. My e-petition is to give a chance to the Scientologists to vote themselves more rates relief. Trouble is they are not allowed to look at it. And they are not allowed to have their own e-petition on the same subject because it would be a duplicate of an e-petition already out there - i.e. mine.

    That's pretty damned clever of me, I think.
    • Like Like x 1
  38. 004 Member

    Could we move this to the general forum please? I don't want to derail this thread.

    My point is it does not matter what you, or I, or WE think is fair for others, including a govt., it is for individuals, both jobseekers and employers themselves to decide that, for themselves, via mutual and voluntary agreement, and for the govt to enforce that contract like it does any other contract with the rule of law.

    Although 'X' may be the minimum coerced salary, an employer is not under any obligation to pay more, even if the person may be worth far more in terms of productivity.

    So, the unintended economic effects of price floors, in this instance of a wage floor, is the creation of labor force surpluses of very low skilled workers without quals or degrees (Price Ceilings/fixing creates shortages), and encourage low wages by keeping them artificially at a low point for some.

    These are the very opposite effects of the good intentions of the social policy seeks to prevent - but we cannot create policy on (admirable) intent and by what sounds good, but on economic consequences and cause & effect.

    A price floor is the same thing as curing a child of a fever by taking its temperature, rubbing out the scale on the thermometer and writing 36 deg C. where the mercury is.
    • Like Like x 1
  39. 004 Member

    Sorry, I'm still not with you,

    It must be this bottle of Chianti :D
    • Like Like x 1
  40. RolandRB Member

    So vote the government out.
    • Like Like x 1

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