Discussion in 'Independent Scientology' started by CommunicatorIC, Jul 15, 2014.
yeah Steve Hall did swipe my idea and started the Indie 500 list.
Right now we are at 2399.
Here's the problem . . .
. . . that word "counter" permits any and all actions as detailed in "scripture" to silence criticism. Not only that, the "Creed" is little more than PR religious cloaking bullshit and is not senior to policy. Accordingly, while Scientology ostensibly supports various "inalienable rights", it reserves to itself the right to "counter" the exercise of any of them by using all the means so carefully codified in the various - mostly confidential - intelligence / PR and Ethics/Justice policies. Further, it is also Scientology "scripture" that the "reactive mind has no rights" so, when writing the "creed", the Hubbtard knew full well that although the words were directed towards burnishing his long-con for wog world, it never actually applied to wogs or, indeed, anyone not furthering KSW. In Tom Martiniano's Xenu-befuddled mind, you were not slapped down for defending Chris but "handled" by "always attack, never defend" for having the temerity to express disagreement in an environment where to do so is to threaten reality itself. You failed to duplicate his origination in an effort to make others wrong. Tut tut. Worse, you were speaking up for an SP. Of course, you know all this so, rather than lying about your comment being an attempt to stick up for Chris Sheldon, why not just admit you were being a smart arse troll. Nice work, though. You rather nicely exposed the implanted crazy which drives those KSW engram chasers.
Still, its not so long ago you were as guilty as Martiniano in attacking a critic in a similar fashion. That was back when you were Senior Hall Monitor Facebook group "Security Officer" vetting new members and hunting down OSA operatives. Have things changed, Hobbo, are we now seeing a wiser, kinder, more gentle Thetan or have you gone undercover? I'm loving the Affinity, it makes a nice change, the Communication is still tainted with the flavour of acceptable truth and a touch of the passive-aggressive but getting better, I think, yet I wonder what your intended Reality might be.
I saw that. I met Tom Martiniano in the late 1970's and he was not the ranting fanatic he has become.
It totally cracks me up and it is very sad that the Indies are still following the paranoia and idiocy of DM.
How so you may ask?
Who was the one who said Anonymous gets pay checks?
D fucking M
It obviously wasn't Hubbard. He may have said something that pertains to it, but Anonymous of course didn't exist back then.
So fail on the Indies! Still towing the line an believing DM's idiotic fear mongering bullshit.
Bravo! Clear that planet!
It been a long-standing belief inside Scientology that all critics get paid.
which is more or less what I said.
But DM is the one who said ANONYMOUS gets pay checks
Notice how the bar is set very low on this lie in discrediting critics to the sheeple? The lie that all critics are 1) bitter apostates, or 2) paid by Scientology's enemies is surprisingly uncomplicated considering how this organization lives and breathes on complex conspiracy theories.
I would expect that those continuing to buy the kook-aid would develop a more complex justification on something so easily disproved. Clams are really great at spinning grand tales, but this one is so simple that I'm surprised it isn't questioned by more lurkers.
When Indies continue spout this nonsense, they become more worthy of our pity. Fucking retarded is the phrase that comes to my mind.
Speaking of which, my cheque from SPECTRE is late this month.
By Big Pharma, the American Psychiatric Association, German Intelligence and the Marcabian Fleet.
This Milestone blog has only 110 followers and I'd guess some of them are just watchers. Compare to ex's on WWP list, whoa, no comparison. Maybe a stepping stone for some, but in time, anyone smart enough will see the truth.
I'm happy to have found this thread here and since I never opened the Milestone link before, really didn't know how devoted some are. The only thing good about them is keep the money from going to the cult. Plus, some comment's did help them think differently, it appeared.
Edit: Having now seen the Milestone thread I can keep better track of who's who when they appear on other blogs now, so thank you.
Look. You can say whatever you want. This rant...it is not encouraging to see. We all are watching. We are all talking about it. And, we k that this "religion," which seems to have had its roots in aspiring to greater things on the Earth and Beyond has become a monster. Did it have good intentions? We believe it did. But, sadly, under this narrow-minded @ leaderahip, spiritual growth seems to have been stunted, and, indeed, harmful techniques employed.
Sincerely sad. It held such promise.
For the gullible maybe.
Promise that came with abusive policies written by Hubbard himself.
"The only way to trick people is to lie to them"
Every single Scientologist ever has been duped, lied to and fully indoctrinated by endless hours of insane, never-verifed processing into Hubbard's massive Scam of Scientology. There is no question whatsoever. What were L, Ron Hubbard's credentials, he was a convicted fraud who lied about every single accomplishment he claimed to have.
He claimed to have a degree in civil engineering when he actually flunked out in his 2nd year. He referred to himself as Dr. L. Ron Hubbard claiming a Ph D from Sequoia University which was actually a degree mill he had invested in with no accreditation anywhere, another lie. Hubbard also claimed to be a Nuclear Physicist who wrote a laughingstock of a 'Science' book called All About Radiation which was literally laughed at in scientific circles.
L. Ron Hubbard claimed to have been awarded 24 Medals of Honor from the U S Military as a hero in WWII who cured himself of blindness and crippling injuries using his Dianetics discoveries, All Bullshit. His medical records show no such injuries at all. He was actually demoted for bombing an inhabited Island owned by Mexico that wasn't even involved in the war. He's guilty of stolen valor because 20 of the 24 were never, ever awarded to this conman. He actually received 4 routine service medals. He's a disgrace to anyone who served in WWII with honor.
He claims he was almost run over by a freight train on Venus. Fake 'Commodore' LRH sent a 4 year old little boy to the nasty foul chain lockers on his Fake Navy Tub The Apollo (Google: Derek Greene LRH Abuse) for 2 full days soiling himself in dark, freezing cold solitary confinrment for the 'crime' of chewing on a telex.
Independent Scientologists, Give it up, your promotion of L. Ron Hubbard's abusive 'Tech'. is criminal, it's Fraud!
L. Ron Hubbard was a child-abusing piece of shit. Stop selling his Scam for your own illegal benefit. You're committing Fraud your bogus 'Donations' from very vulnerable ex-Scientologists is despicable and needs to be investigated.
The very last thing an Ex-Scientologist needs is more of Hubbard's drivel in any form.
Independent Scientology is harmful and dangerous because after all, it's L. Ron Hubbard's Scientology any way you look at it, All based on lies, a fully exposed scam of a convicted Fraud.
There's no evidence that Hubbard owned or invested in Sequoia.
The intentions are expressed by the behaviour.
Destructive behaviour = bad intentions
And in scientology, all promises are "ecclesiastical statements of the Founder" that are disavowed in contracts you have to sign to get duped and swindled.
In scientology, promises are lies.
Chiropractor/ Sequoia University President: Dr. Joseph Hough 915 South Grand View St., L A Ca
This street address was the location of the sprawling campus of Fake Sequoia University that granted Dr. Hubbard his laughable Doctorate in Philosophy for 200 Dollars.
No, there's not much evidence that Hubbard or anyone else invested much money in the ownership of the Fake Sequoia University that was run out of a small private residence of a Hubbard acquaintance in L. A. with no accreditation to grant Ph D's to anyone.
There were reports in British newspapers at the time investigating Hubbard claiming that he did have an ownership interest in the scam and he did invest at least a couple hundred bucks to purchase his fake doctorate in philosophy after which he referred to himself as Dr. L. Ron Hubbard and briefly flirted with laughable Dr. of Scientology doctorates for his Scientology students at the bogus degree mill called Sequoia University.
Hubbard's $200.00 investment for a fake doctorate may have been one of the biggest investments by itself. No 'owner' invested much or did well with this little used farce of a University.
Contradicted later by Bare-Faced Messiah.
I'm simply pointing out what an utter fraud L. Ron Hubbard was in his ill-advised associations with the small time degree mill scam of Sequoia University. It had been reported in British papers investigating 'Dr.' L. Ron Hubbard that he had an ownership position (later dismissed in Bare-Face Messiah, thanks for update, DH) in the fake Sequoia University degree mill where the good Dr. undeniably did purchase a Doctorate in Philosophy for $200.00. Overall investment could be quite minimal in an operation selling fake degrees from a house.
Following his small investment in a bogus doctorate in Philosophy Hubbard did entertain using Sequoia University to offer fake degrees in his very own quack Philosophy of Scientology. Yes, Dr. of Scientology (lol) was to be part of the LRH scheme but this charade quickly collapsed when old Ron was exposed as a fraud with his phony PhD from Sequoia during the investigation in Great Britain.
Following this exposure of fraud, the good Dr. errrr Mr. (later to be Fake 'Commodore') L. Ron Hubbard chose to remove the fake Dr. title from his name and nix the expansion into Sequoia's Scientology Doctorates and I believe ending any and all business relationships with Sequoia University.
This probably ended the very small time degree mill scam of Sequoia University and any plans Hubbard had for it. Unfortunately, the fact of Hubbard's exposure as a fraud regarding his Sequoia University exploits did nothing to derail his very own abusive Scam of Scientology that would reap this conman hundreds of millions from his future deceived, deluded and ultimately abused followers.
LRH left Sequoia University in the dust.........
Dr. L. Ron Hubbard: Quack of the Century
Admiral, actually . . .
. . . mind you, this Flag Order was later declared a forgery. I know, I know . . . Scientology does that sort of thing a lot but, it has to be said, by January 1986, L Ron Hubbard was away with the fairies full time. Also, Pat Broeker would have been looking to bolster his intended ascension. I didn't know there was zero evidence of L Ron Hubbard owning that University. Must be about time for another reading of Bare Faced Messiah. I've still got the old edition, do you know if the new one is significantly better or just a reformat?
DH posted that there was no evidence of Hubbard having had an ownership interest in the Sequoia University degree mill according to the book, Bare Faced Messiah, great book, I'm not sure about the newer version.
I'd forgotten that Fake 'Commodore' Hubbard had appointed himself Fake 'Admiral' Hubbard......
'Admiral'?............'Admiral'??...............'Admiral'...........Kirk'..........(Khan at :40 mark)
'Admiral'?..............'Admiral'??............ 'Admiral'........Hubbard......(Khan in the Van Allen Belt)
Perhaps Khan had tracked down........'Admiral'...........Hubbard.......75 million years ago on his time track carousing The Van Allen Belt and served him one of his evil Ear-Worms that wrapped around Hubbard's cerebral cortex and produced his Scientific Marvel: Dianetics? and the rest of his insane 'Tech'. ................
Makes as much sense as LRH's writings: Hubbard was Chekoved by Khan!
I don't think we have much to worry about from "independent Scientology" at this point. I thought, when I first started reading WWP and other sources, that the "independent Scientology" movement would be viable, particularly if they adopted a process-based governance model based on internet collaboration used to build open source software. They would thus be able to do their thing outside the evils of the official church, and there would be a way to evolve the organization (something Hubbard never thought of) that would avoid an oppressive central organization, yet still enable the indie movement to market together.
I was wrong. Independent Scientology never took off. There were some organizational pissing contests such as what made iScientology collapse within weeks of its founding, but that is not what killed independent Scientology. It died because the tech is sufficiently useless for self-help and personal growth for most people that nobody will stick with the time needed to get even the relatively minor benefits unless they can have a punitive organization to bludgeon them back into line when they start to have doubts about the efficacy of what they're doing, and unless they have a money-extracting machine efficient enough to extract sufficiently large sums of money to create an immense sunk-cost bias ("I'm not sure how much that last auditing session did for me but I still have $220,000 on account with the 'church' so I might as well keep auditing.").
What's the evidence that independent Scientology has collapsed? Easy examples: the Freezone attracted only a couple dozen people at its most recent annual convention, "Ron's Org" hasn't been heard of since forever, and iScientology and Milestone Two are basically irrelevant. The "Indie 500" list of people publicly announcing they're "indies" has grown by only 60 names in the last 4.5 years in a time when cult membership declined by 20%, or about 6,000 bodies -- in other words, less than 1% of those exiting Scientology proclaimed themselves "indies."
Perhaps most illustratively, the most recent two indie splinter groups don't appear to be doing much. You'd think that if Scientology was viable outside the punitive structures of the Mother Church, then the South African and Israeli communities would be viable. They are, after all, half a world away from extreme hands-on management from Miscavige and his henchmen, and they've typically had a lot more freedom than orgs in, say, Florida. But the South African "BackInComm" blog hasn't been updated in over a year and little has been heard from its supporters since well before that time.
And the "Dror Center" splinter group in Haifa, Israel, which broke away from the official "church" a few years ago, has not experienced any significant net growth. They may have recruited a handful of new members in that time, but if so, they have approximately offset the number of people who have "blown" the Dror Center community. Net zero growth suggests that the Israelis have no ability to stick to scientology outside a coercive organization.
Original edition that makes it quite clear that Hubbard didn't own Sequoia:
There have also been reports on Sequoia U after the fact that make it clear that it was all Joseph Hough's creation.
Hubbard and de Mille confused the situation by adding Sequoia University after their names and "degrees" on letters as if they were representatives or faculty of SU.
Paulette Cooper, The Scandal of Scientology, chapter 20. Tower Publications, Inc, 1971
There was a 1968 UK investigation, that was released in 2009, long after this was a dead issue, with the mistaken conclusion that Hubbard owned Sequoia.
Scientology founder L Ron Hubbard exposed as a 'fraud' by British diplomats 30 years ago August 7, 2009, Graham Smith, Daily Mail
Most likely Hubbard was scamming a scammer, rather than actually investing in it. It's not like Joseph Hough could complain the the authorities that Hubbard was stealing the "good name" of Sequoia University.
Thanks for posting more conflicting stories on Hubbard's 'ownership' of the very small time Scam of Sequoia University that sold fake degrees from a house in LA. There have been several over the years. The extent of Hubbard's investment in time or money in this small time fraud has little to do with the subject of my posting.
He absolutely acquired one of their bogus degrees to try and cover up for his phony claim of being one 'Dr. L. Ron Hubbard' in the 50's and looked into printing fake 'Dr.' of Scientology (lol) Doctorates for sale with the esteemed Sequoia University that could be operated on a shoestring budget and access to a printer.
It failed miserably, Hubbard was exposed for the bogus use of the Dr. title and dropped both the title and his plans to incorporate laughable Doctorates in Scientology into Sequoia were abandoned. This little scam of Mr. Hough's was of no more use to him and he quickly moved on from it. It goes without saying that Hubbard would try to scam a scammer.
The 'How' Hubbard got involved and did or did not invest in this tiny little scam of Sequoia University is totally beside the point of my post concerning how Independent Scientology continues to promote this poorly educated conman, L. Ron Hubbard who pulled ALL of his laughable 'research' into Dianetics and Scientology out of his sorry, child-abusing ass.
Independent Scientology needs to be opposed because there are still many who try and take advantage of Deluded exes through the ex-Scientolgist world under the guise of 'helping' them transition with the 'proper' use of LRH KSW Tech. This 'soft-landing' approach is dangerous and misleading.
Three degrees of Hubbard:
That doesn't include ones like Civil Engineer that he falsely claimed he got from GWU.
These are all very good points, my concern is with even the small number currently being exploited by Independent Scientology scammers, I worry for all current Scientologists and recent exes who are vulnerable to exploitation once they finally get out one way or the other.
The very last thing any ex-Scientologist needs is more mind-numbing, controlling LRH rubbish by other deluded exes who can't or won't move away and attempt to profit selling Hubbard's bogus 'Tech' in any form.
Really, I'd be more concerned about exes getting caught up in some more popular forms of woo or conspiracy fantasies. Indy Scientology seems kind of small potatoes at this stage.
Unfortunately this 'Independent' mindset is very appealing for any ex-Scientologist who has been thoroughly indoctrinated through endless hours of processing for decades in the LRH mindfuck. If there is any sudden collapse of the Scientology hierarchy, the 'Independent Scientology' movement may very well proliferate in many forms among new exes in denial over their long fostered beliefs to varying degrees.
They're all susceptible to abuse as they've been fully subordinate to LRH abusive policies and dictates for decades. I have a lot more invested than most in the immediate aftercare of current Scientologists with many relatives still trapped and I believe that Scientology in any form needs to be confronted to spare them ongoing processing at a steep cost especially mentally but financially as well. The last thing they need is more LRH processing.
People can believe in whatever 'Woo' they want to as long as they are not being abused because of it. Hubbard's Scientology processing is abusive and controlling by policy and design. Ex-Scientologists need time to adjust and decompress, they do not need the false self-serving 'services' of Independent Scientologist's trying to capitalize on their susceptibility in my view.
Any group that convinces people to seperate from their family IS EVIL- this is not a religion, it's a cult and that is a fact. People who believe in it are brainwashed. This organization is a sham and all the leaders will burn in hell
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