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Intellectual property, theft, and the future

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 1merelyhumanbeing, May 2, 2011.

  1. I believe that I should preface this whole deal by saying that I read about this roughly 2 months ago (it was published on March 15, 2011), so there may have been developments concerning this/these issues. And it is possible that some of these specific issues have already been discussed - If so, would someone please refer me to the discussions as I have great disdain for thread search engines. And while this does concern freedoms, this does not specifically relate to any initiatives - I have mis-categorized this thread, then move it!
    --

    An article was published presenting the White House's position on 'intellectual theft', and their recommendations for dealing with these 'thefts'. "Under federal law, wiretaps may only be conducted in investigations of serious crimes, a list that was expanded by the 2001 Patriot Act to include offenses such as material support of terrorism and use of weapons of mass destruction. The administration is proposing to add copyright and trademark infringement, arguing that 'move would assist U.S. law enforcement agencies to effectively investigate those offenses'". http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20043421-281.html

    All I am getting out of this is, that the government wishes to give investigators the ability to request wire taps for individuals suspected of 'breaking the law'. [side note: Perhaps the article is suggesting to make make wire taps legal without formal warrants?]

    “the Administration recommends that Congress clarify that infringements by streaming, or by means of other similar new technology, is a felony in appropriate circumstances". The only noteworthy information here is the 'felony' level offense given to potential "infringers".

    -The raw, white house 'recommendation document' states the explicit wishes/requests it has for congress:

    "Increase in the [current] offense level for recidivist intellectual property offenders”. (pg 8)
    "Ensure felony penalties for infringement By Streaming and by Means of Other New technology” (pg 10)
    “Questions have arisen about whther streaming constitutes the distribution of copyrighted works (and thereby is a felony) and/or performance of those works ( and thereby is not a felony).

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/ip_white_paper.pdf


    Not that these statements are anything too serious, rather I'm just curious what everyones' opinion (especially in light of Germany,France, New Zealand) regarding these issue is. Below I have posted two news articles about New Zealand's recent intellectual copyright business.

    An excerpt from the end of the first article about what to expect, states that one will first receive a detection notice of the infringement, that "a second infringement between 28 days and nine months ... will trigger a warning notice", and that "A third infringement between 28 days and nine months later will result in an enforcement notice"

    The only thing I am intending to highlight is that, to me at least, it seems the United States intends to be less 'forgiving' when it comes to instance of infringement ; however, this is merely speculation as we cannot be sure how exactly the legislation will turn out - The main piece of support I have is this, quote "Ensure felony penalties for infringement By Streaming and by Means of Other New technology” (pg 10).

    If a law that incorporated all of the previously stated wishes of the White House were to be passed, it could potentially be more severe than the legislation in New Zealand, and so one can safely assume that the organization known as Anon. would be against it. What possible action could be taken, to deter the government from something like this - I believe any "normal activity" would potentially prove to be a foolish and fruitless endeavor anyway (imo of course). So what then, besides hacking is one to do? The only thing I can think of would be to publicly protest, and after the "newness" of the issue died down, so would (I believe) the public's outright/manifested objection. Besides the choice between two candidates, who will both surely publicize their opinions of "more important" issues, what can a civilian do? Perhaps I am wrong, perhaps this is non-issue.


    *A recently published article, from a NZ based website regarding the 'issue': http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/arts-life/4923503/Internet-law-change-not-an-idle-threat

    *An article recognizing "Anons" position regarding NZ: http://www.examiner.com/anonymous-i...aland-file-sharing-copyright-infringement-law
  2. So are you just here to point out that the government has been encroaching on our freedoms?

    If so, then you are looking for Freedom of Information.

    If you're just here to shoot the shit then Cool Story Bro.

    Basically, you need to come up with some way of talking to your Representatives on Capital Hill, and good luck with it. I'm not sure how effective Anonymous is with getting Legislation passed or defeated...
    • Like Like x 1
  3. PSKL Member

    Many congresspeople have interns who publish on an internal database all references to the congresspeople in the major newspapers read by their constituency. Many of the references I saw came from letters to the editor. My advice would be to write letters to the editor of any appropriate newspaper. There's a good chance your representative's staffers will see what you have to say that way.
    • Like Like x 2
  4. PSKL Member

    I should add that it's more likely to be noticed if the name of the representative is in both the body and the title of the letter.
    • Like Like x 1
  5. @DarkSpecterAnon. I could rant for days on the so-called 'patriot act', and the "Freedom" that America loves to advertise. Yes and No. I suppose one of my goals was to increase awareness about the topic. so perhaps it was just a place for me to start, to organize my thoughts. ~ There are so many issue though; such as, the despotic concept of the privatization or complete ownership of the internet, which actually is a real goal. I could grab a source, but eh.

    I mean really, it's pretty depressing (at least for me) to think about the masses' impotency when influencing issues similar to these. Besides just accepting that the legislation will come to pass, I figured that I would at least try to seek some solace here.

    @PSKL. I wasn't exactly meaning for me personally though, writing letters and such is great! /non sarcasm. but I was looking for a.. I don't know. A solution? I really don't believe it is anything, anyone (the masses) would honestly consider doing; although it is exactly what needs to be done! So yea ~ I guess we could just sit here and complain about the problems of the world.. or perhaps sit, and not complain. Although I think complaining may be better, in this case, than not complaining at all//

    Then I guess maybe people have a right to their "intellectual property" and the money that comes from it.. but then this just leads to a huge philosophical discussion about property and ownership. Not that I'm against such a debate!
  6. I understand that it seems harsh, and complaining to prevent could help stop it... but If the Senators and such feel that prosecuting and arresting people to help Some get their money, they will probably pass it anyways.

    As for an Anonymous solution... idk if it exists, but I think some others might be interested in this.
  7. yea, I suppose 12:00 wasn't the optimum time to post. And not to create some menial debate, but really- what do you think? Should artists get paid for their work, or what about promotional labels? lol what a joke. How about when putting the corruption /and mainstream aside then - is it reasonable then? I mean, I don't want pay.

    Well in the mean time let me just say something really inflammatory: I do not wish to be anonymous, I wish to be an individual. But this is a whole different issue.
  8. Anonymous Member

    It's good practice for creating pseudonymous identities. I like being able to have two personas--one as Anon and one as PSKL.
  9. Well I don't really have an opinion. I am very novice in the realm of intellectual property, ownership, and their rights as the owner/ penalty for infringing /definition of infringing. All of these I don't really have any knowledge about, so I can't say where the boundaries are etc. I'm prolly just not the right Anon to be discussing it with.

    I do kind of wonder what you mean by that. Really being Anonymous, one important aspect of it is that an Idea you support (freedom of information) is more important than the person presenting it. Basically, the knee jerk reaction of people is to resort to Ad Hominem Attacks against your idea. Of course, being Anonymous negates that. Also, you don't have to Identify as Democrat, or Republican, you are just Anonymous, with an important idea. This causes people to really see just the idea.

    Basically it helps me being Anonymous because People don't care what race you are, what party, what age. etc etc.
  10. What's a PSKL?
  11. Interrobanger Member

    Not inflammatory at all. A hive is a net reckoning of individual, and often disparate, opinions. WWP, on the other hand, is a pustule of syncophany, but never mind the details.

    Also, OP ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........
  12. Anonymous Member

    He might be dead (Bin Laden) but by golly he certainly scored some points.

    And it is depressing but don't worry about it. I've been depressed for days. It got so bad last week, I called The Crisis Line.

    But after talking to them for awhile, I realized that the Call Center was in Pakistan.

    After they asked me how I was feeling, and I told them I was feeling suicidal, they got really excited and wanted to know if I knew how to drive a truck.
    • Like Like x 5
  13. PSKL Member

    I think you mean "Who's a PSKL?" But alternately, it also means Pre-Set Kill Limit.
  14. Ah I see what you did thar. Gotcha.
  15. Anonymous Member







  16. Anonymous Member

    Thank you for your helpful contributions.
  17. This website puts a reasonable amount of faith in the individual poster- either that or the "all-seeing mods" are truly workers of magic. eh probably It sucks, who knows, I haven't been around very long.

    @DarkSpecter. I really think your opinion works as well as anyone else's, and why shouldn't it? Anyone, even the most studied scholars, would have a difficult time placing figuring it out..Unless one were to take an absolute White/Black, all or nothing route. thinking sucks though I'd say.

    I think it is paramount that the individual be expressed in society; and anything which detracts from one's individuality , is something that should definitely be brought into questioned. - not that all things which do are bad though.

    You're totally right, it really does put the emphasis on the words. I don't think people should have to be anonymous for that to happen, but human nature is what it is. so it works pretty well in that regard

    @ Interrobanger. WWP (urban dictionary: worthless without pictures)? Yea I suppose you're right, it was a bit dry.- how else would you make the case though? Maybe a straightforward "US copyright Infringement act imminent" post would have worked better than setting everything up- oh well. I expected to get more than few TL:DRs


    -- You just had to bring Obama bin Laden into this didn't you...err I mean Osama. You're right, 'depressing' was the wrong word to use though~ Pathetic, or weak-as-shit would have probably worked better to describe how "The People" are. and I think pretty much everyone agrees. Case Closed. A little absolute, but it works.
  18. Nick_Nolte Member

    Talk to your rep. And if they don't respond, talk to local media about how your rep hasn't replied to you. Nothing will most likely come out of either, but doesn't hurt to try.
  19. Don't get me wrong either, I think being an individual and having your voice heard is important. I just feel that generally due to the bullshit politics entails, "Your a Democrat don't cross party lines!" "Republicans don't support this!" or political black listing, such as people getting mad at you for challenging those in power... I think it's great to be able to put all that aside and just worry about the ideas you have.

    Plus as you say it IS human nature to judge others and to focus on the person and their motives. So by doing something that you can't directly confront like that, it helps people to rethink how they view politics. i.e. you can't generalize what some one Anonymously said.

    Of course, this is all counter productive if your name has clout... i.e. being a renowned lawyer and Harvard graduate, you prolly don't want to protest the law as an Anon.
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Anonymous Member

    Wat the fuck are you on about.
    • Like Like x 1
  21. Nick_Nolte Member

    Been listening to this too much nigga?

  22. well there are a few different things going on here.

    Basically it all comes from something I said earlier: "Well in the mean time let me just say something really inflammatory: I do not wish to be anonymous, I wish to be an individual. But this is a whole different issue."

    the middle thing- It was from another comment too, I thought it was pretty straightforward; all I'm saying is that DarkSpecter's opinion of any issue is no worse than anyone else's, including scholars.

    Thats the fuck of it, good somebody.
    ---

    @DarkSpecter. yea it's great for getting past the superficial stuff. You've got the problem of accountability or a lack thereof- which leads to greater freedom for sure!- but also to more chaos. This is getting into another issue, but where do you think the line should be drawn? Some guy raging some antisemitic bullshit (or just a kid yelling nonsense) in the middle of an unrelated conversation could be pretty annoying. Squelching, muting, or banning him would be censorship- or of course one could recruit an infinite amount of (self made) support when arguing a point. But how can you tell when someone is doing these things? 'mods' but when Should they come in? It's already been decided anyway I guess..

    Since places like this are hard to come by - it could be viewed as being a pretty valuable construction. But, most forums and online communities are based off of anonymity, so it's not too unique. Although there has been a pretty big push from Google/facebook/youtube to force individual identities.

    I just don't know. (yea, well that's for sure)
  23. over9000OT Member

    Rant about so-called Freedom? Tell me Citizen, what's the last thing you tried to do but were prevented from doing by a lack of freedom in America? Not something you heard somewhere. Not something you read on a website. Something you personally tried to do that is guaranteed as a right to you by the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.

    I'll be waiting over there.

    Also, kind of wondering what you're wanting to do about all this?
    • Like Like x 1
  24. Char. Limit Member

    Shouldn't this be moved to FoI?
  25. Anonymous Member

    something like that.

    FreedomDomeGraphic2.jpg
  26. Nick_Nolte Member

    Needs more dong copters
  27. "@DarkSpecterAnon. I could rant for days on the so-called 'patriot act', and the "Freedom" that America loves to advertise."
    Well first I think the context of the statement is somewhat important here; It was written in response to another person's comment "are you just here to point out that the government has been encroaching on our freedoms?" - What I meant by my comment (your quote) was that while I could just sit and complain and although I was pretty much just complaining anyway- my purpose in the op was (supposed) to be more aimed at posing the question and figuring out what really what can be done? - in a serious way. It was probably more for me than anything.

    The problem with the question that, I never once mentioned myself being specifically slighted by a lack of freedoms - I merely said that I could rant on these two subjects. But since you are looking for personal instances, let me say that although I have not been physically barred from any activities, I (and would argue most people) have been prevented from doing things through a process of subjugation. 'What have I not done because it was illegal' is, I believe, a more apt question here - What haven't you done because it was illegal? I mean really, it's kind of difficult to even begin to think about -because my opinion here- legality and social norms are so ingrained in us.

    I think it should also be mentioned that the constitution is not a document which explains what citizens have the right to~& the bill of rights was more just a safety blanket.- I should have every right in the world, except what has been made into law. which I'm not sure of them all, So I think a really good list of illegal things that I have done would require some research... but that isn't what the question was right?

    If you would like a list of laws that have prevented people from doing things, I'd be glad to google one. But it seems you are more interested in attempting to mock or challenge me or something. Last thing I have done. If I smoked pot & wanted to in public this would be easy, Could say speeding but those are reasonable laws. The last thing.... it's hard to think about what the world would be like, if it wasn't what it was like.

    You said bill of rights and amendments so: -Does the disinclination to mutter obscenities when being 'disciplined by the law', or maybe when I just didn't approve.. I mean telling a lawenforcementperson to F*off when pulled over would be pretty dumb.. It isn't illegal at all though, more of a common sense thing.

    -Curfew laws back in the day made me more than a bit nervous, yea a bit irrational. but hey an issue regarding a friend before he was of age came of it.

    Education is not free Without insurance, one has great difficulty in receiving any type of serious health care (not a personal issue as I have come from a lap of semi-luxury).

    But then these aren't rights granted to us. unless you want to argue the preamble.

    > Still waiting over there? > That's actually one reason for creating this, What do we do now. Besides sit and wait.

    - I'm not sure what type of fight you're picking, or if you're even trying to pick one- so I'll stop here and just let you tell me.
  28. Char. Limit Member

    Can you provide a tl;dr version?
  29. over9000OT Member

    I'm not necessarily trying to pick a fight. Rather, I am often dumbfounded by Americans ranting and raving about their lack of freedom when, in fact, they enjoy more freedom than any other nation on the planet. As a matter of relativity, Americans have no room to bitch when it comes to freedom. The reason I asked for specific instances of your freedom being denied is that I have seen more than a few people raeg over their sooperoppressive governmentz and never once stop to think of the irony inherent in them protesting in public, in front of police, agitating for regime change or the removal of certain laws and then taking it on back to the house to read whatever they want, go to whatever church they want, essentially say whatever they want, go to the job they personally chose, travel freely to other states... need I go on?

    That said, you are not 100% free... no one is. That would be called anarchy and, at the individual level, it is essentially untenable. No law can give you freedom but they are necessary for the greater good.

    Now, if you're butthurt over having less freedom than you did pre 9/11, you have my attention. If you're butthurt because there are laws preventing you from doing some things you'd like to do you may have a point, you may not. If you'd like to drive as fast as you want and blow stoplights, you're an asshole and don't belong on the road. Your personal liberty is trumped by the greater good. If you think it should be okay to smoke weed, I think you have a point and I think that most Americans agree with you to the extent that I bet it's no different than drinking alcohol within the next ten years. Incidentally, there is a pretty good example of the American political system allowing people to create MORE freedom. Fifteen states worth (and Washington DC) have given their people more freedom. Granted, I'm tending towards parochialism in pursuit of a point but the fact remains that there are mechanisms for Americans creating more personal freedom when it doesn't go against the greater good.

    Where did anyone guarantee you a free education? I assume you mean free university education since primary and secondary schooling in America are free. Same question concerning health care. I know that there are people that believe that there is a human right to as much education as they want and as much health care as they can stand but I submit to you that advanced education belongs to those that truly want it (read: willing to pay) and that I have no responsibility to pay (in the form of socialized healthcare) for someone else's poor lifestyle choices . If you want to eat Twinkies, smoke and sit on your ass all day, knock yourself out but I take no responsibility for your increased healthcare costs as a result.

    Uhm, you do... which is why I was wondering what you were trying to say. And, I'm still wondering what you want WWP to do about any of this.
  30. Loki's spawn Member

    lol. It's Why We Protest.
  31. [For a TL;dR version read the last few paragraphs, it's really a complicated mess of a thread with multiple side topics, so if you want to fully know what's going on .. the best way would be to just read it]

    I think that the ranting is, while being oftentimes excessive, totally necessary. If the people just become lax, indifferent things (which they might already be) well that just leads to a messy situation ..A bit interesting, that they only care about laws that have effected them personally, and not some of the other slimier things -a total generalization that “they” don’t care, I know. That’s really an important (albeit potentially fallacious) idea: things could always be better. So why not argue and fight… well in an idealistic way, I think this would be great- the practical aspect of it though, near to impossible. Yea I just argued with myself there.

    Yea we American do have it better than most countries, or so we are told ( Before you say anything, I know there are worse countries)! I have only read in newspapers some of the issues dealing with other countries- but who knows, there may be better! Well as long as you’re not homosexual or a woman, you have It pretty good. -- Yea Women and homosexual individuals still have it better here than most places, but still not quite as good as hetero men do. Of course this is all assuming that one is an American citizen... This is another tangent though -

    Of course laws are necessary, I mean that’s all social contract stuff. Rights for protection/services. duh. agreed.

    I would disagree that many laws are often times not for the common good, but for the good of the top 10 percent - Although I’m not about to go read over the last 100 things congress has passed.. this is another Tangent: wealth disparity. Here is a pretty nice report. http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html
    -We could argue economics, equality vs. freedom, all sorts of crap. But, Patriot act like bullshit definitely pisses me off.. coincidentally so does, using fear as a means for control. - I think we both agree many laws are necessary and many are beneficial - And I think we would also both agree that some are pretty ridiculous farces.


    -Awesome, looks like we have an issue. Not sure that this is the place to debate it, or If I’ll have the time in the coming week to spend any time on it.

    Healthcare.

    -The problem with Healthcare is that, sure you could use the example of someone who smokes and takes terrible care of themselves, but then on the other side of the coin you have people in shitty economic situation that can’t - who are literally are unable to - provide any money for health related services. Is it morally right to forsake those who are born into terrible situations. So what do you do about people who didn’t have a choice to make. Please don’t tell me that you actually believe in the maxim that people can “pull themselves up by their bootstraps [if they want to]”, because that, is shit and has always been total and utter bullshit. - Another side topic here though.

    ----<<<<

    1>“I should have every right in the world, except what has been made into law."

    2>"Uhm, you do... which is why I was wondering what you were trying to say. And, I'm still wondering what you want WWP to do about any of this.”

    1>Yes, I do- but it seems more and more that nobody knows (or maybe it’s just ME, that I don’t know) what rights we actually have. Apparently I cannot buy a song off of Itunes and place it onto more than 5 devices (how was I supposed to know). Can I disable the wifi connector in my ipad (not that I even have one), If I want to walk around without it searching for access points all the time - Doubtful. Copy written phrases wtf? It’s been illegal to show a movie one has purchased the ‘watching rights’ of, to large audiences. Our rights are confusing now-a-days, it probably always has been a confusing issue though.

    1>That is what I was trying to say. It sounds simple enough, that we have the rights to everything we don't have the rights to.. wait. well. despite how it sounds. What the hell do I not have the right to do then? eh Idk.
    I'll just keep on living in my twilight world of possibilities, and complain about things I know nothing of.


    * What do I want WWP to do?
    Think.
    I have no idea what to do, maybe I should have kept these things to myself. But I think that through conversations like this we can become potential vectors for at least some change. Maybe someone else will have a better idea. That was my reason, I have no idea what I want Worms World Party to do.
  32. Interrobanger Member

    Do not excuse your own poor writing style with false accusations of others' having short attention spans. Consider searching the internet for "how to write an essay." Be cognizant of using a presentation style appropriate for the venue. Recognize that shoops, humor and chatter can be very effective in influencing opinion when properly deployed.

    This entire paragraph is superfluous. Do your own research before posting. Don't use a paragraph for what can be said in a short sentence.

    Too obvious to mention.

    Second paragraph and the reader still doesn't know the topic.
    Your first sentence should be your topic sentence, not a banal observation that "an article was published."

    If it's trivial to you why should the reader care?

    Investigators already do request wire taps for criminal suspects. You have not distinguished your concern from existing everyday activity.

    This excerpt is disembodied, not relating to your comments before or after.

    I liked your summary here, but I still don't know why you're mentioning it.

    You're claiming you've written several paragraphs on a topic you consider not too serious?

    The reader is still wondering why you are vomiting these details.

    If you don't feel strongly after a dozen paragraphs why should the reader care?

    Is mere speculation of the U.S. being "less forgiving" the sole raison d'etre of this very long post?

    At last a thesis and some context for all the boring detail you have been regurgitating! But only after 99.9% of your audience is long gone.

    Presumptuous. Let anon worry about anon.

    All you have is a PA request? You haven't even convinced me I should care yet.

    Adding source and background links at the bottom is always helpful.
    • Like Like x 3
  33. Patience of a Saint... Good for you editing it... WHat's their final GradE?
    • Like Like x 1
  34. Anonymous Member

    Then maybe you should treat this more as a place to have a conversation and less as a place to give a lecture.
    • Like Like x 1
  35. The Preface- It’s pretty simple man. It posed a quick defense for having an outdated topic either through a previous thread, or more recent article dealing with this issue. I simply had no way of knowing how informed the members here were. Nor what reaction they would take, if they had already been over this topic. Excuse me, for the superfluous fluff there.

    Please read some of my previous statements- surely if you had, you wouldn't have posted this. But this proves my point its all about the audience here. So, what do you think- lets not make this all about me, I mean we can… Is it possible to even own ‘intellectual material’? America is right on track with NewZealand, and the rest of the world (generalization..) what do you think should be done, and do you think anything can be done? Personally, I see the main governmental channels corrupt and a waste of time- but I feel they are the only method that has any potential to change the current course we’re on.

    I do not believe I ever once accused anyone of having a short attention span. You are right, humor and other devices can be effective tools for persuasion. I wasn’t (and still am not) looking to influence anyone’s opinion of the topic whatsoever - Secondly, sucks to your rules & advice on my style. If you didn’t read it that’s fine - Honestly (really depending on my mood) I wouldn’t have either, if you did read it then well- what did you think (& not about the writing style). Or as a matter or principle, which would reasonable I suppose, are you not going to respond, in order to teach me a lesson of a grammatical sort.

    Yes my first sentence was fluff, but once again- what type of forum is this? Purely intellectual, purely sophomoric? An anonymous mix. Yes. Who is my audience here, please tell me that one, so that next time I attempt (which will surely be an attempt, as I doubt anything I publish from here on out will be up to your standards) to submit something to the forum it will be properly formatted. [but before you do, please wait until you have finished the end of my comments to your comments]

    Originally I believed that the white house didn’t want warrants to be required. Here is the deal man, Warrants are not needed in many cases anyway [here is my attribution]. Why would I distinguish my concern from everyday activity, if I am concerned with my every day activity> ?

    The next bunch of comments, I’m just going to bunch together. Is that was I am going to do, really bunch a bunch of comments? Ah, don’t tease me like that, you knew I was going to do it all along.

    The main Issue it seems that you have is with my boring, here-and-there writing style.
    Right you are: proper presentation. Perhaps a more collegiate approach should have been taken, but then I wouldn’t have been able to wander around everywhere like I did- or at least not to the same extent.

    If I was going for a more collegiate writing style, It would have seemed even more like a lecture which would have in turn yielded other arguments I’m sure.

    I’m sorry if my mannerism upset you so much that you completely forgot the topic
    Actually, if I did upset you that much - I congratulate myself for riling you up so much. So much for having a unique style, but I suppose that are so much rules in order to maximize info uptake. So much for that. For what? For that.

    no. would you quit it, seriously now. I do not want to write with your ways.

    So, I’ll continue to write with my ways, at least for this one last response, but once again- to keep with the redundant style and all- what type of forum is this? Purely intellectual, purely sophomoric? An anonymous mix. Who is my audience here, please tell me that one, so that next time I attempt (which will surely be an attempt, as I doubt anything I publish from here on out will be up to your standards) to submit something to the forum it will be formatted properly. I mean there was a slight contradiction in the last few sentences, but It’s probably not serious enough to worry about anyway.

    I thought mods had to move the thread.
    Aussi, Je parle le francais. Parlez-vous le francais?

    PS. next time, [see previous paragraph] what would be more appropriate MLA, or Chicago? I'd prefer either of those two, I'm not to familiar with any of those 'other strange types of formatting. Oh was my grade an 'E'? and was this response any better? hmm I feel like trite would have fit in well somewhere too.
  36. Everyone is your audience... you have the Anons who will simply mock your idea as ridiculous... then you will see how no one will respond to your thread.

    Also not accepting criticism about your writing style will be the same problem... no one will read it.

    y finalmente, si puedes hablas en un otro idioma que se mas conocer, Hablamas. Hay otras paginas donde ellos se pueden comprendir sus ideas.
  37. over9000OT Member

    Ma francais est tres terrible. So, that would be a bad idea.

    I wonder how much time you've spent in other countries. If you've read posts of mine where I hope I to challenge someone to think beyond whatever the media has told them or they read on Wikipedia, you'll notice that I tend to point out that you shouldn't believe things that you haven't seen with your own two eyes, especially when they are open to interpretation. Some will take that too far... but I think it's safe to say that observation is better than reading an author with unknown goals regurgitation. So, again, I wonder how many countries you've been to other than America. I don't claim that America is the bestest out of some misguided nationalism. I say it because I've seen tens of thousands of people shoehorned into cardboard boxes. I've seen babies die of diarrhea. I've seen strange fruit hanging from trees for a crime no greater than believing in the wrong flavour of rainbow-shitting unicorn in the sky. If you think women or homosexuals have it bad here, I invite you to randomly pick three countries on the map and two, if not three, of them will have far worse "rights" ascribed to women, homosexuals and minorities in general.

    As far as you taking issue with the bootstraps issue, all I can say is that you are wholly wrong. How do I know this? I've made no secret of me growing up poor. I went to bed hungry sometimes, wore second-hand clothes and spent a lot of time walking because my parent's car broke down... again. Even so, even growing up "poor" in America, I had a roof over my head, was safe from crime and knew the love of a wonderful family. It would be wildly inappropriate to list my accomplishments here but, briefly, I've worked since I was 14, studied hard, put myself through college, spent 15 years in the Army as an officer and am pursuing my doctorate now. I did all of that for myself. No one gave me anything. Not even a scholarship in college. Excluding those born with developmental handicaps, disease or truly bizarre circumstances, you can make it in this country... if you're willing to work for it.

    That actually ties it up kind of nicely. Do you have any idea how much of the world would love to have the opportunities that so many Americans take for granted? Baby momma in line at the welfare office to get her gubment check had the opportunity to attend high school for free, probably drove over in a car, from her house, with food in it and is probably itching to get home to watch TV on her flatscreen or surf the 'tubes on her computer. She calls herself poor where the rest of the world would risk a ride in a leaky boat, shoehorned into a shipping container or crossing a border in the desert to get a shot at what she says is not enough.

    I rather doubt that I've addressed all of your points but I have to say that's because I'm not entirely sure what they are. You've been offered some advice on how to tighten up your writing, take it and maybe you'll find your voice.
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